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DragonHelm III
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
27
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Posted - 2016.10.02 11:54:57 -
[1] - Quote
submitted 7 hours ago * by Lenny_Kravitz2 wrote:Hello Reddit, Over the last few days there has been a little bit of confusion with the anchoring of a citadel under the Care for Kids banner recently and I wanted to give you a quick update to let you know what was happening. Before we cover this particular citadel, letGÇÖs just go over a bit of background information on the trade network and what this particular citadel is for. Jita, as a centralised market hub will always exist (in one form or another). However, I firmly believe that a connected trade network that can service low and null sec will bring a great deal more content and excitement to the game. A trade network, to be successful needs to be independent of all entities and remain free ported to everyone, regardless of the circumstances. Chribba will therefore be acting as overseer of the project, distributing ISK and auditing when required. Since this project's initial announcement, the level of support and number of parties interested has grown significantly - not because they are paid or obligated, but because they see the benefit a neutral trade network will bring to the game. A few examples of alliances included are: Project Mayhem, Snuffed Out, WAFFLES., Shadow Cartel, Darkness (and Guardians of the Galaxy by extension), Circle of Two, Northern Coalition., Pandemic Legion, Legion of xXDEATHXx, Stainwagon, Triumvirate. (and Vanguard), Chaos Theory, Fidelas Constans (FCon and Phoenix Coalition), The Initiative., Mercenary Coalition and of course Care for Kids. I can understand the confusion with this particular citadel being dropped under the Care for Kids banner, however with the number of people involved in this project (including major and minor alliances) the citadels at this stage arenGÇÖt really under threat, so this wasnGÇÖt done as GÇ£coverGÇ¥. This project is far too big for one person to undertake alone and by extension, even one alliance. Therefore regions have been broken up and different alliances will be dropping the required citadels in various locations, while other participant members assist in offering protection. As 25% of the profits of the trade network will be donated to Eve goodwill projects (Care for Kids included in that) they were also involved in anchoring 1 of the many citadels. For me personally, this isnGÇÖt a for profit activity - I will however be the one investing the initial seed capital to get the project off the ground. The citadels will have a low 1% brokers fee and the profit distribution of that will be released shortly. In slightly related news, because of the time investment required for this project, I will be stepping down from IWI to focus on this project full time and retiring from active participation in gambling sites (this includes selling my shares). Keep posted over the next few weeks as weGÇÖll be releasing the full details of the new trade network. Taken from Reddit!!
If true then is CCP going to take action here. This seems like somebody abusing terminally ill kids and/or impersonating a charity both illegal IRL and anyone found guilty of this should be banned from playing ANY game where the age limit is less than 16 as a minimum. Apologies for bad formatting i'm not good at that. Also, looks like a CCP ban on casinos is incoming so please nobody fall for it and invest in them get your ISK out NOW |

Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
130
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Posted - 2016.10.02 12:07:06 -
[2] - Quote
Considering that he's donating 25% of the profit to Care4Kids/Plex4Good, I fail to see how he's impersonating a charity. I'd also like some evidence beyond your say-so on that casino ban.
I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
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Ginger Naari
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
77
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Posted - 2016.10.02 12:19:26 -
[3] - Quote
If the above post is true, and it probably is..
I'm not too comfortable with anyone with any connection to a gambling site having anything to do with raising isk for charity this way..it just doesn't sit well somehow. |

Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri
New Order Logistics CODE.
548
|
Posted - 2016.10.02 12:30:58 -
[4] - Quote
I see nothing criminal in this initiative. Considering how big a blob of nullsec alliances Lenny has managed to amass, they would've embarked on this Keepstar network project regardless of the charity part. Now, if that citadel ever gets attacked by a sizeable enough force, and the "care for kids" card is used as a propaganda tool against the attackers, then this will, indeed, suck balls. Not that it's going to happen in the forseeable future: as we've learnt, Keepstars today are virtually unassailable, unless you completely roflstomp the alliance anchoring it (while the citadel is not even online!). |

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
13019
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Posted - 2016.10.02 13:16:36 -
[5] - Quote
How can ISK be used for charitable purposes without RMT being involved somewhere down the line?
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
130
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Posted - 2016.10.02 13:33:05 -
[6] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:How can ISK be used for charitable purposes without RMT being involved somewhere down the line? Plex for Good?
I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
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Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
597
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Posted - 2016.10.02 14:10:21 -
[7] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:How can ISK be used for charitable purposes without RMT being involved somewhere down the line?
Well from what I gather, basically they ask for ISK to pay for the event they host ingame, the usual 'come blow my Titan up' has to be paid for, and while they are at it, they link their paypal or their gofundme or whatever method they monetize themselves with.
@lunettelulu7
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Ronove Los
Outer Harbor
4
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Posted - 2016.10.02 14:17:39 -
[8] - Quote
As long as CCP makes money out of these casino/gambling sites, i think they'll keep turning a blind eye to the RMT that happens within these sites. Perhaps when it becomes too obvious or when CCP doesn't make any more money out of them, they'll step in and close it down.
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
13019
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Posted - 2016.10.02 14:32:10 -
[9] - Quote
Dark Lord Trump wrote:Bumblefck wrote:How can ISK be used for charitable purposes without RMT being involved somewhere down the line? Plex for Good?
Usually for Evil
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2964
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Posted - 2016.10.02 15:36:26 -
[10] - Quote
DragonHelm III wrote: Also, looks like a CCP ban on casinos is incoming so please nobody fall for it and invest in them get your ISK out NOW
Proof?
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
244
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Posted - 2016.10.02 16:23:24 -
[11] - Quote
Cleanest way would have been if Lenny just took more % of the profits and donated from his personal ISK wallet during PLEX for good and such while having the in game business operation not tied to out of game charities.
Not because I think anything is shady, but fighting against a charity corp/alliance would be meh, and puts out of game spin on the evil power and greed based game play conflicts that EVE is famous for.
Having said that, I don't think OP has any legitimate evidence to accuse RMT and such.
I personally gained a lot (not just ISK) from IWI and Chribba's always been my hero in EVE. If there is anything illegal or RMT involved with the project I would trust Chribba not to take any part in it. And also, Lenny pulling out from IWI is the right and respectful move in this situation.
So until proven with real evidence about anything illegal or EULA/TOS breaking, I shall keep my neutral trust.
Toobo is a lucky talisman - use Toobo's referral for IWI and you too can be lucky!
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Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
485
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Posted - 2016.10.02 16:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
I have come here only to say WTF this is the best goon avatar ever, most of them are unimaginative scalp shots, this is the work of le' artist.
Also just read op's post, that ante cool if accurate. |

Elenahina
agony unleashed Agony Empire
1266
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Posted - 2016.10.02 16:35:24 -
[13] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote: Also, looks like a CCP ban on casinos is incoming so please nobody fall for it and invest in them get your ISK out NOW
[citation needed]
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
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Goatman NotMyFault
Lubrication Industries Band of Boogers
261
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Posted - 2016.10.02 17:17:41 -
[14] - Quote
Too say like the regular players of EVE that really dont give a bublegum about anyones assets..... so what?
If its possible to shot Down, it wil at some point be shot Down.
There is noone than CCP to blame for it.
CCP made EVE like this, so deal With losses.
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Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
486
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Posted - 2016.10.02 17:23:48 -
[15] - Quote
Goatman NotMyFault wrote:Too say like the regular players of EVE that really dont give a bublegum about anyones assets..... so what?
If its possible to shot Down, it wil at some point be shot Down.
There is noone than CCP to blame for it.
CCP made EVE like this, so deal With losses.
I read this and could only think of that Black Sabbath song, the mob rules |

Elenahina
agony unleashed Agony Empire
1267
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Posted - 2016.10.02 17:37:05 -
[16] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:Goatman NotMyFault wrote:Too say like the regular players of EVE that really dont give a bublegum about anyones assets..... so what?
If its possible to shot Down, it wil at some point be shot Down.
There is noone than CCP to blame for it.
CCP made EVE like this, so deal With losses.
I read this and could only think of that Black Sabbath song, the mob rules
Great. Now I have to go watch Heavy Metal again. Thanks a lot.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
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Goatman NotMyFault
Lubrication Industries Band of Boogers
261
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Posted - 2016.10.02 17:46:50 -
[17] - Quote
Btw... If CCP decided to reimburse or reinstate or bring back that Citadel, all hell will break loose. Then all the ganking victims will f... up the Ticketsystem With demands to get their 109th ships back they lost while afk mining... or those lost their ships, in low or null, to hotdropping while ratting.
In my mind, i hope they kill all citadels in hi and lowsec....  |

Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
486
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Posted - 2016.10.02 18:14:22 -
[18] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:Piugattuk wrote:Goatman NotMyFault wrote:Too say like the regular players of EVE that really dont give a bublegum about anyones assets..... so what?
If its possible to shot Down, it wil at some point be shot Down.
There is noone than CCP to blame for it.
CCP made EVE like this, so deal With losses.
I read this and could only think of that Black Sabbath song, the mob rules Great. Now I have to go watch Heavy Metal again. Thanks a lot.
I prefer to play this https://youtu.be/ZCZDWZFtyWY while I run the mission recon lvl 4 mission 3 then deploy a MTU in the hopes of hapless victims coming in to 'ninja' salvage, haven't gotten anyone one yet but it's only a matter of time. |

Perkin Warbeck
Higher Than Everest The-Culture
233
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Posted - 2016.10.02 22:30:57 -
[19] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:Quote: Also, looks like a CCP ban on casinos is incoming so please nobody fall for it and invest in them get your ISK out NOW
[citation needed]
Mittens. Everyday. On Jabber.
Lenny evicted Goons. Goons don't like Lenny. Lenny must be a cheat. |

TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1706
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Posted - 2016.10.02 22:49:55 -
[20] - Quote
I can appreciate the idea of a neutral market network and gathering support from a lot of major factions. This, to me, is what EVE is all about. This level of grand politics and player initiative is amazing, and exactly what Citadels were designed for. I can't wait until this market network is online and inevitably draws enough attention to escalate into a major conflict. Because it will, one way or the other one of those Keepstars is going to die sooner or later.
That said, putting these Keepstars up under the ruse of a charity is despicable. I don't give a single sh*t how much Lenny wants to pretend he's doing this 'for the kids', we all know this is entire thing is a matter of self gratification. Not necessarily with money, there's also power and fame that comes with game altering projects like this. It's about getting rich, famous and powerful first and foremost, with a charity thrown on as an afterthought for good appearance. In that regard Lenny has taken some valuable lessons from real world companies. But if this really was primarily a charity he'd give away a lot more than just 25% of the profit. That's almost insultingly low.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
8738
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Posted - 2016.10.03 01:06:21 -
[21] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:I can appreciate the idea of a neutral market network and gathering support from a lot of major factions. This, to me, is what EVE is all about. This level of grand politics and player initiative is amazing, and exactly what Citadels were designed for. I can't wait until this market network is online and inevitably draws enough attention to escalate into a major conflict. Because it will, one way or the other one of those Keepstars is going to die sooner or later.
That said, putting these Keepstars up under the ruse of a charity is despicable..
Translated:
Good idea, but too salty.
Gÿ+
There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1595
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Posted - 2016.10.03 01:10:42 -
[22] - Quote
That IWI guy isn't right, him in contact with anything charitable makes me queasy.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1022
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Posted - 2016.10.03 04:32:21 -
[23] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:I can appreciate the idea of a neutral market network and gathering support from a lot of major factions. This, to me, is what EVE is all about. This level of grand politics and player initiative is amazing, and exactly what Citadels were designed for. I can't wait until this market network is online and inevitably draws enough attention to escalate into a major conflict. Because it will, one way or the other one of those Keepstars is going to die sooner or later.
That said, putting these Keepstars up under the ruse of a charity is despicable. I don't give a single sh*t how much Lenny wants to pretend he's doing this 'for the kids', we all know this is entire thing is a matter of self gratification. Not necessarily with money, there's also power and fame that comes with game altering projects like this. It's about getting rich, famous and powerful first and foremost, with a charity thrown on as an afterthought for good appearance. In that regard Lenny has taken some valuable lessons from real world companies. But if this really was primarily a charity he'd give away a lot more than just 25% of the profit. That's almost insultingly low. This is exactly it for me as well. I dont care that the guy will get rich or famous. Its the blurred lines between in game and RL that is starting to be crossed here and the bigger picture of how CCP wants to present Eve in a sense in regards to how far is too far.
Itll be an interesting thing to keep an eye on though.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
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Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
247
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Posted - 2016.10.03 06:51:08 -
[24] - Quote
I'm not sure if we should judge how much people 'donate' to chritable causes, and my thoughts on this are same both in game and IRL. Charity is not something to be expected or demanded, and it's silly to criticise someone or organisation for not 'donating enough', and to call any donation, regardless of where/who it comes from 'insultingly low' is definitely not in good spirit of charity.
Bill Gates IRL donates incredible amount of money, but if he never ever donated a single penny, or only donated a penny per year, I would not criticise him in anyway whatsoever on this front.
People should not 'expect' charity and donations by default. It's a nice thing when someone does it, but nothing to be criticised of if someone doesn't do it or do it in the amount you think is 'not enough'. I'm just not with that whole way of thinking both IRL and in game.
Toobo is a lucky talisman - use Toobo's referral for IWI and you too can be lucky!
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Lan Wang
C.Q.B Snuffed Out
3514
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Posted - 2016.10.03 09:28:41 -
[25] - Quote
so we can anchor keepstars safely by just donating 25% to a charity and saying we are doing it for charity? 
Loyalist to Angel Cartel
Your killboard reads like a "how to get farmed 101" - Noah Reese
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Lan Wang
C.Q.B Snuffed Out
3514
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Posted - 2016.10.03 09:47:29 -
[26] - Quote
Toobo wrote:I'm not sure if we should judge how much people 'donate' to chritable causes, and my thoughts on this are same both in game and IRL. Charity is not something to be expected or demanded, and it's silly to criticise someone or organisation for not 'donating enough', and to call any donation, regardless of where/who it comes from 'insultingly low' is definitely not in good spirit of charity.
Bill Gates IRL donates incredible amount of money, but if he never ever donated a single penny, or only donated a penny per year, I would not criticise him in anyway whatsoever on this front.
People should not 'expect' charity and donations by default. It's a nice thing when someone does it, but nothing to be criticised of if someone doesn't do it or do it in the amount you think is 'not enough'. I'm just not with that whole way of thinking both IRL and in game.
In this case when you make something under a charities name you are 'expected' to make donations and accept criticism because you are intending to raise money for the said charity you have chosen to represent, lets not steer away from the fact that once this network is setup then the passive profit will be massive.
Bill Gates IRL does donate a lot to charity, mostly his own charity which could be argued that its being done to profit himself more.
Personally i think that this whole business venture should have all its profits and income made public.
Loyalist to Angel Cartel
Your killboard reads like a "how to get farmed 101" - Noah Reese
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Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
248
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Posted - 2016.10.03 10:18:36 -
[27] - Quote
Who decides how much is enough? Should people working for charities just get paid enough to have three meals a day? Is it 'wrong' to work for charity and make decent living at the same time? Are people that will use these keepstars for charitable purposes? If Lenny donated 100% of profit to charity will traders seed the market at no profit margin for themselves?
I can understand this operation comes under charity banner, and as such people will want more scrutinity on this.
But won't traders that seed this market make profit for themselves? Are they then making profit off charity organisation?
Won't the alliances involved benefit from strategic access and locations? Are they abusing charity banner to get an advantage in game?
What I find hypocritical is that people will 'profit' from having such network, not just Lenny. So while they profit in ISK, they don't want Lenny to turn profit for himself?
If people are going to use these keepstars at loss and consider their loss as donation to charity, then yeah, maybe you could say Lenny or the holding alliance should donate 100% to charity. But it's dodgy for people to profit from this in game while insisting the holders should not make profit.
Toobo is a lucky talisman - use Toobo's referral for IWI and you too can be lucky!
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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1598
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Posted - 2016.10.03 10:33:16 -
[28] - Quote
Toobo, you're being disingenuous or not understanding something here: if a structure is named SICK CHILDREN CHARITY, then the smaller the amount that goes to charity the more of an offence against decency it is. Twenty five percent sounds a bit mean. Oh, the IWI link in your sig, ok.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
598
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Posted - 2016.10.03 11:00:37 -
[29] - Quote
Its too bad people can't leave RL at the login screen.
@lunettelulu7
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1024
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Posted - 2016.10.03 11:11:13 -
[30] - Quote
The reason why most of those rich people donate so much to charity is that it is a tax break, usually a GOOD one like here in Canada it is often matched by the govt dollar for dollar on taxes so for every $1 given you get a $2 tax exemption. This is often better than paying taxes on their or their business' income outright. Then if you build your own charity you get tax free status on that charity and can pay your workers incomes from YOUR charity dollars as wages. If you then work for said charity you are in effect paying yourself and your friends with your money and getting a govt tax break in the process.
Bill Gates and others make INCREDIBLE paper incomes in the likes of capital gains taxes that must be paid as their companies stocks skyrocket, owning controlling or large share blocks as they often do in them, taxes must be paid on them that are usually taxed in the highest tax bracket. Here in Canada that is above 50%.
So no I dont necessarily respect those that do it for the tax breaks and in fact have often wondered if my govt revoked that tax break for one year just how much charitable donations would drop. I am cynical but I know human nature and it would plummet like the Chinese space station will soon enough from orbit into the sea.
This is in effect the same thing. Making a profit off charitable giving while the "tax break" is in the form of no one shoots the citadels because "OMG think of the children!!!" Which imo is a sad way to do business imo.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
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Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
248
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Posted - 2016.10.03 12:44:07 -
[31] - Quote
I think what is 'reasonable' amount is totaly subjective. On my book 25% of profits for charity is more than good enough. That's more percentage than I will ever donate for charity in game or IRL. 25% profit of my business operation for charity? I see that as huge portion, you do not, fair enough, it's subjective.
As for IWI link on my sig, it's got nothing to do with it. I'm neither banker nor hold any shares at IWI. But I enjoy IWI greatly and had awesome time there. Consider me a fan boy, that's all. Not in any sort of business relationship with them in any sense, I'm just a player. Now that Lenny is pulling out of IWI it would not matter anyway though.
Toobo is a lucky talisman - use Toobo's referral for IWI and you too can be lucky!
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Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
248
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Posted - 2016.10.03 12:47:39 -
[32] - Quote
Just to add, if Care 4 Kids got any sort of game benefit from CCP for doing this then yes, there is something to discuss maybe. But as long as they playing by the same game rules and are vulnerable in a way that anybody in game can be, what can we really say about that.
Like I said in my first post, I'm unsure about putting out of game spin on in game op. What I'm arguing against is how people expect charity and donation from the 'rich' as if that's something to be expected and demanded.
Toobo is a lucky talisman - use Toobo's referral for IWI and you too can be lucky!
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Lan Wang
C.Q.B Snuffed Out
3517
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Posted - 2016.10.03 13:11:20 -
[33] - Quote
Toobo wrote:Just to add, if Care 4 Kids got any sort of game benefit from CCP for doing this then yes, there is something to discuss maybe. But as long as they playing by the same game rules and are vulnerable in a way that anybody in game can be, what can we really say about that.
Like I said in my first post, I'm unsure about putting out of game spin on in game op. What I'm arguing against is how people expect charity and donation from the 'rich' as if that's something to be expected and demanded.
its more than an in game op, as far as im aware they accept cash donations aswell so that makes it out of game too
Loyalist to Angel Cartel
Your killboard reads like a "how to get farmed 101" - Noah Reese
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Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
248
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Posted - 2016.10.03 13:40:30 -
[34] - Quote
I don't think I have much more to comment anymore. :p anyone, Lenny or whoever can do anything they want under any spin they want and donate as little or as much as they want. In my book, it's all okay as long as it's not in violation of EULA/TOS, and I let CCP judge that.
For all I care they can accept cash donations and make millions of RL $$$ and donate 0$ to charity. Not my business, and I don't understand why some people make ot their business to talk about what others do. My brains are just wired differently from those who care about what others do and I don't think I can understand, so I shall stop here.
Good luck with your ventures. There is always option for people who oppose this to make bigger projec than this and make bigger ISK than them and and accept more cash donations than them donate more % than them, or burn them down with brute force EVE style.
Toobo is a lucky talisman - use Toobo's referral for IWI and you too can be lucky!
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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1600
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Posted - 2016.10.03 14:04:00 -
[35] - Quote
Toobo wrote:etc etc etc etc and I don't understand why some people make ot their business to talk about what others do. etc etc etc
Ok we get it you're a shill or something, pls stahp.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
7078

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Posted - 2016.10.03 14:06:12 -
[36] - Quote
Goatman NotMyFault wrote:Too say like the regular players of EVE that really dont give a bublegum about anyones assets..... so what?
If its possible to shot Down, it wil at some point be shot Down.
CCP made EVE like this, so deal With losses.
Just a quick clarification. While the above statement is correct in general, you need to make sure that your actions are in concordance with the EVE Terms of Service (especially pay attention to section 10 and 11) and the EVE EULA.
We also want to remind everyone that we have a zero tolerance policy regarding charity scamming. If you find a charity related scam, please immediately contact our customer support team. Thank you!
CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer
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