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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Goati
State War Academy
Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2016.10.04 20:16:55 -
[1] - Quote
KrazyTaco wrote:Has any thought been given to the implications for NPC corp miners in High Sec now being able to essentially use the Orca as a near invincible default mining platform instead of the traditional barge / exhumer?
Given that the Orca will remain around the same price and it can now mine just as well as a yield fit Mackinaw, receives an extra 33k ehp base, and has a huge ore hold, what will stop a proliferation of Orcas that can't be engaged with in any meaningful way than by all but the largest gank fleets in High Sec?
Orcas are very easy to bump. And I see they made the align even worse, by quite a lot. A few bumpers could knock any orcas out of the belt very quickly. |
Goati
State War Academy
Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2016.10.04 20:54:22 -
[2] - Quote
Where can we get some info on the new ice harvesting drones? Need stats! Info given was only for yield on normal mining drones. |
Goati
State War Academy
Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.10.04 21:14:13 -
[3] - Quote
Who else thinks the Orca is way too powerful now? The idea that it can mine at the rate of an exhumer, with a 187.5k m3 ore hold, with huge EHP, it's just ridiulous. Orca is meant to be a support ship, not an exhumer equivalent mining vessel.
Why even use Exhumer any more? Orca costs 2-3 times more sure, but you only pay that once. You can be sure it won't be ganked if you know how to fit it, especially with the the new EHP.
I think CCP have gotten carried away and made it way too powerful. It should not be able to mine at all, or, if you want it to be able to mine, it should be able to mine at max about 50% the rate of an exhumer - that way it's more worth to mine in Exhumers and we don't get the ridiculous situation of people choosing Orcas over Exhumers as primary miners die their yields being the same.
Seriously, with Exhumer yield and 187k m3 ore hold, who wouldn't spend 2-3 times more and just mine in an orca instead of an Exhumer? Crazy. |
Goati
State War Academy
Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2016.10.05 11:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP went too far, the orca does too much now, and all for just 700m. The EHP is insane, that's one thing that's crazy. The other and more ruining thing is the high yield. The orca should not have the same yield as an Exhumer. The Orca is meant to support Exhumers, not behave as a supertank afk miner.
Reduce Orca yield to be about 50% of Exhumer yield and everything will be right. Exhumers should be primary miners, not the support vessel. How anyone could not see this defies belief. |
Goati
State War Academy
Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 11:53:07 -
[5] - Quote
Jin Kugu wrote:Ripard Teg wrote:Please increase the Scan Resolution on the Orca.
Put it this way: can a high-sec Orca even lock one of the Catalysts ganking it before (a) the Orca dies, or (b) all of the Catalysts die? Can the same Orca lock and kill an untanked gank Talos before CONCORD does the job for him?
DPS is useless if you can't apply it. "My 530k ehp afk mining boat isn't strong enough!" EDIT: apparently a t2 fit orca will easily hit 530k ehp, uggh
Calculations show a T2 orca can now easily reach more than 600k EHP. |
Goati
State War Academy
Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2016.10.05 15:33:05 -
[6] - Quote
Zhul Chembull wrote:Goati wrote:Who else thinks the Orca is way too powerful now? The idea that it can mine at the rate of an exhumer, with a 187.5k m3 ore hold, with huge EHP, it's just ridiulous. Orca is meant to be a support ship, not an exhumer equivalent mining vessel on steroids.
Why even use Exhumer any more? Orca costs 2-3 times more sure, but you only pay that once. You can be sure it won't be ganked if you know how to fit it, especially with the the new EHP.
I think CCP have gotten carried away and made it way too powerful. If you must keep the mining abilities, it should be able to mine at max about 50% the rate of an exhumer - that way it's more worth to mine in Exhumers and we don't get the ridiculous situation of people choosing Orcas over Exhumers as primary miners as their yields are the same.
Seriously, with Exhumer level yield and 187k m3 ore hold, who wouldn't spend 2-3 times more and just mine in an orca instead of an Exhumer? Fit right It will be near ungankable and is an afk miners dream, crazy. It is beyond a joke.
The solution; make the Orca max personal mining ability be at about 50% of that of an Exhumer. Still worth an additional mining for the fleet without taking the role as best/primary miner away from Exhumers. It is not. It will get ganked in high sec and killed. It will be ganked in low/null and be killed. Just because its not the most useless ship on the board now means nothing. People are organized and cant wait to get on a kill that is halfway challenging. I am an indy guy and cant wait to get in on some of these juicy kills myself. Very cool changes. Believe me, there will be counter flames soon saying they are not strong enough, players are far more crafty than realized. All in all, it is a good balance.
Only non fit ones will be ganked and killed. A properly fit one will have 600k ehp. Nobody is going to suicide gank them with that much HP, just as they don't suicide gank the 400k EHP properly fit orcas we have now.
The only counter to this Orca set up is bumping it. As it's the only counter, there's going to be a lot of mad players getting bumped all over the place. |
Goati
State War Academy
Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2016.10.06 21:41:15 -
[7] - Quote
These new Orcas are so ridicluous that I can tell you now that they will be bumped out of belts on a constant basis. Due to boosts now required to be within 45km to be received it will be very easy to keep anyone using these new Orcas as a booster/hauler/miner (bloody ridiculous) from being of any use at all.
If bumped away the new Orca can't mine, can't boost, and can't haul. That's the one counter to this new ridiculous booster/super hauler/miner all in one. It's not ganker tears we're going to see, it's going to be miner tears galore. |
Goati
State War Academy
Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2016.10.06 22:11:55 -
[8] - Quote
Penance Toralen wrote:Goati wrote:These new Orcas are so ridicluous that I can tell you now that they will be bumped out of belts on a constant basis. Due to boosts now required to be within 45km to be received it will be very easy to keep anyone using these new Orcas as a booster/hauler/miner (bloody ridiculous) from being of any use at all.
If bumped away the new Orca can't mine, can't boost, and can't haul. That's the one counter to this new ridiculous booster/super hauler/miner all in one. It's not ganker tears we're going to see, it's going to be miner tears galore. No it's already beaten. The orca pilot can just dump and anchor a dozen GSC in a sphere around the ship forming a cage. No bumping put. What's the next plan?
Lol, good luck if you think that will help save a single Orca from bumping.
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Goati
State War Academy
Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2016.10.07 09:56:44 -
[9] - Quote
Neugeniko wrote:Hi,
Just some info for people trying to calculate drone mining on the new orca.
T2 Mining Drone Base Mining Amount = 33 m3 per minute
5 levels of Mining Drone Operation = 25%
5 levels of Drone Interfacing = 50%
5 levels of (NEW) Mining Drone Specialization = 10%
5 levels of Industrial Command Ships = 50%
Orca Mining Drone Role Bonus = 100%
1 T2 Drone mining rig = 15%
1 T2 Drone mining rig = 15%
1 T1 Drone mining rig = 10%
*Mining drone rigs don't have a stacking penalty currently. Checked and confirmed in client.
Mining Amount per Drone = 33*1.25*1.5*1.1*1.5*2.0*1.15*1.15*1.1 = 297.04 m3 per minute
5 drones is 5 x 297.04 = 1485 m3 per minute
For augmented drones its then 1485*1.09 = 1619 m3 per minute
With current stats harvester drones would do 1636 m3 per minute, they don't benefit
from mining drone specialization thou.
Cheers,
Neug
So basically an orca will be able to mine like a boosted Exhumer with an epic sized cargo hold. The only way to counter it in most cases in high-sec is to bump it. This will end well. |
Goati
State War Academy
Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2016.10.07 21:03:19 -
[10] - Quote
Flashmala wrote:Drigo Segvian wrote:If the gankers are crying then its a good change. +1 CCP  Let the CODE salt flow...
Tanked orcas were already not ganked anyway. 400k or 600k ehp, they are left alone.
The main change is that it will now be possible to shut down the fleet boosts of miners by bumping their Orca away. And the icing on the cake is that the Orca will not be able to mine either if it is bumped away.
Such a shame miners, to have such an overpowered vessel be completely countered by a bumper. |
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Goati
State War Academy
Caldari State
14
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Posted - 2016.10.22 10:49:10 -
[11] - Quote
On the test server I am using a drake to test mining burst range. I have all maxed relevant skills, including fleet command 5 and T2 mining burst. With this, my burst range is 43.88km.
That's without the Orca 50% range bonus. So does this mean that a max skilled gang pilot giving mining bursts in an Orca actually had around 60km burst range? Previously people thought it would only be about 45km, but it seems to be a fair bit higher.
(which is a good thing, because otherwise the porpoise burst range was going to be garbage, but as it stands now the max burst range for porpoise will be around 43km, and orca 65km). |
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