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Angus McLean Gallente Divinity Trials	Posted - 2007.03.22 01:39:00 - [1] Edited by: Angus McLean on 22/03/2007 01:42:33 Edit: Righto this is for PvP After playing with the Amarr HAC's and Command Ships Ive decided to train for another races ships. Seeings each races HAC is only 1 skill away from me (racial cruiser v) I want to see what other people like about their HAC's. Ive got most my skills in gunnery and poor drone skills, that limits my use of the Ishtar/Ishkur greatly. Although the Deimos looks tasty, it has known issues right now. So this leaves me with the Minmatar HAC duo, the Caldari HAC duo and the Deimos. Of those 5 which would you pick and why? Also please make sure your answer isnt based off "Well if you get this HAC you can get their CS". I will train for the CS of that race later, Im just basing this training on HACs. Have at - ---------------- Freedom Of Speech Band of Brothers T-shirt
Blind Man Kemono. Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.22 01:59:00 - [2] minmatar
Altrex Stoppel SniggWaffe Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.03.22 02:02:00 - [3] Originally by: Blind Man minmatar QFT Although if they ever nerf MWDs like they said they were going to. I think we may see more of the Deimos.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.03.22 02:02:00 - [4] as much as i love my matar ships. i think you would do well with caldari. muninn is a decent boat but vagabond is kinda a one trick pony. again, both good ships but.... caldari have teh cerb and eagle. the cerb is pretty versatile and can be a tough nut to *****. the eagle is an excellent sniper and decent blaster boat. so, one missile boat and one gun boat. hard to beat that as opposed to matar's one gunboat (that can have some fitting issues) and a super-tackler that basically needs a damned expensive fitting (possibly implants) to really do its job right and not get pwnd. on top of all this, you will find you need more SP across the board to really excel in the matar ships as opposed to the caldari ships. deimos isn't anything superb and can be bested by any of the ships above.
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.03.22 02:07:00 - [5] Originally by: HankMurphy as much as i love my matar ships. i think you would do well with caldari. caldari have teh cerb and eagle. the cerb is pretty versatile and can be a tough nut to *****. the eagle is an excellent sniper and decent blaster boat. No, don't. I fly both of these and tbh, I deeply wish I hadn't trained Caldari Cruiser V. The Cerberus is a great missionmobile and is a pleasant break from the Raven (and it eats Lvl3s), but at it's current prices, i'd never take one into any real danger, and even if I did, it's tank just isn't as strong as it needs to be for PvP. Very good damage potential (it has 2 damage bonuses, rivals Deimos imo) but it needs more shield hp and ALOT more cap. The Eagle can shoot at extremes of range yes, but it does pitiful damage and with blasters it'll be squashed by any Brutix or Harbinger. Please please please, train Matari or Gallente. I'd lean towards Gallente cause their Reconds and Command Ships are the best imo. ---
Siklone The Arrow Project The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2007.03.22 02:13:00 - [6] Originally by: Marquis Dean Originally by: HankMurphy as much as i love my matar ships. i think you would do well with caldari. caldari have teh cerb and eagle. the cerb is pretty versatile and can be a tough nut to ****. the eagle is an excellent sniper and decent blaster boat. No, don't. I fly both of these and tbh, I deeply wish I hadn't trained Caldari Cruiser V. The Cerberus is a great missionmobile and is a pleasant break from the Raven (and it eats Lvl3s), but at it's current prices, i'd never take one into any real danger, and even if I did, it's tank just isn't as strong as it needs to be for PvP. Very good damage potential (it has 2 damage bonuses, rivals Deimos imo) but it needs more shield hp and ALOT more cap. The Eagle can shoot at extremes of range yes, but it does pitiful damage and with blasters it'll be squashed by any Brutix or Harbinger. Please please please, train Matari or Gallente. I'd lean towards Gallente cause their Reconds and Command Ships are the best imo. I'd vote for Caldari. Cerb is awesome for missions, it is* a bit expensive for PvP, but it's priced similar to the Gallente HAC's. Eagle is my favorite ship.. snipe for mediocre DPS at 200km or bring it in close with blasters (I can 1v1 a Deimos or a Vaga, take your pick. and outrange them both with blasters in a gang). Up to you.. I'm sure they're all fun!
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.03.22 02:14:00 - [7] Originally by: Marquis Dean The Eagle can shoot at extremes of range yes, but it does pitiful damage and with blasters it'll be squashed by any Brutix or Harbinger. there isn't a HAC alive i wouldn't engage with a good BC any i'm not saying matar isn't good. (i didn't buy my muninn and vaga to complete a collection :P) , but was kinda just looking at it from couple dif angles. i think all the hacs have something to offer (really dont like the deimos though)
MotoTsume Gallente Clan Black Scorpion	Posted - 2007.03.22 03:48:00 - [8] I would say train those DRONE skills and go for the Ishtar It's just a game........Or is it?????
Ronin Reborn Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.03.22 06:04:00 - [9] As someone whos flown the deimos I advise to train something else, its great ship right up until someone shoots/nosses you. Personally I'd train minnie, vaga is an exceptional behind-the-lines ship and I've seen munnins with 720s melt things in gate camps. Caldari just don't interest me for pvp, I have heard decent things about a beagle but, having never flown one myself, I can't imagine feilding a ship with typical caldari manueverability, shield tank and standard blaster mids. You say you have most your skills in guns, this rules out cerb, regardless of what people say about it. If you want to look along the T2 BC line however, I think you might find Gallente are more to your liking where armor tanking and gunnery skills help out more.
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.03.22 06:20:00 - [10] Muninn. Biggest little surprise you can find in the game. _________________________ ~Thor Xian, Star Commander
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.22 06:20:00 - [11] Vagabond, hands down. It's easily the best hac in the game, but also requires the biggest isk investment and the biggest amount of player skill to fly (t2 just is not good enough on that ship imo). Also huginn is awesome, it's like a vagabond, with slightly less damage but the ability to dual web. If you already have amarr recons which are the win, then i'd say go minmatar. From gallente side - deimos sucks, dominix/myrmidon are better than ishtar. Arazu/Lachesis are useful however. Caldari... please... drake is ten times better than cerb, and after the hp boosts, eagle can't even kill inties anymore. (Muninn is better). The rook and falcon are nice recons, but the gallente ones are better. N.F.F. Recruitment
Zaethiel Murder-Death-Kill Blood Raiders Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.22 06:22:00 - [12] Fix the Zealot! Yeah Mimataar ftw! too bad i dont fly mimataar _________________________________________
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.03.22 06:25:00 - [13] It really depends on what you like,each HAC is rather balanced,they all have a niche and a rather good one. Vaga-speed muninn-Wicked dps/sniper boat. Deimos-no tank all gank. ishtar-ewar drones and nos. cerb-longrange missiles,missile alpha strike. eagle-sniper/blasterboat. __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. I am minmatar,fly amarr,use gellente drones and am in caldari space.
Destr0math Tritanium Workers Union	Posted - 2007.03.22 06:37:00 - [14] Minmatar. Sniper-HAC with the munin, and the vagabond, while being a 1-trick pony does that one trick very well. Gallente just don't have the depth- ishtar is decent, but far outperformed by the myrm, and the deimos is somewhat bland as well. Caldari- Eagle is fine for sniping, but does pretty worthless damage. Price is nice, but the Munin outperforms it in the same role. Cerb is just expensive as hell, and really not worth the ISK. Tank is okay, but for solo pvp will be weak for the amount of money you're spending. Decent for gangwork, adds damage and that extra pimp-osity --- we fly for the golden star.
Zaethiel Murder-Death-Kill Blood Raiders Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.22 06:49:00 - [15] Originally by: Destr0math Minmatar. Sniper-HAC with the munin, and the vagabond, while being a 1-trick pony does that one trick very well. Gallente just don't have the depth- ishtar is decent, but far outperformed by the myrm, and the deimos is somewhat bland as well. Caldari- Eagle is fine for sniping, but does pretty worthless damage. Price is nice, but the Munin outperforms it in the same role. Cerb is just expensive as hell, and really not worth the ISK. Tank is okay, but for solo pvp will be weak for the amount of money you're spending. Decent for gangwork, adds damage and that extra pimp-osity Basically. The Zealot is nice for damage but has less ganking power than the deimos. The Sac is actually decent though it really doesnt do a lot of damage its pretty good for wandering around attacking just about anything with since you can fit mwd scram web cap injector (one of hte only Hacs that isnt slaughtered by nos). I fly my zealot a lot but whenever i get into a fight i find myself stop running my reps just so i can keep shooting so basically i just sit and see who dies first cause im forever blowing my cap. _________________________________________
VanNostrum	Posted - 2007.03.22 06:55:00 - [16] I would personally train drone skills instead before jumping on other races' ships. T2 drones make much difference, and drones are used on a lot of ships. Drones make up half the dps, or sometimes entire dps for some gallente ships (or amarr curse), so good drone skills are a must just like basic skills like engineering, cap skills, navigation etc. imho but talking about each race's HACs my personal favor goes in this order Minmatar->Amarr->Gallente->Caldari
Zirth Caldari The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.03.22 07:11:00 - [17] Only HAC worth it for PvP is the Vagabond. Other HACs either have too little nano-potential, whereas a vagabond with nano, even if it loses, won't die. This is extremely important imo, a month ago or so I finished training for Gallante HACs and payed 200-250m for my Ishtar, sold it a week later, got a Myrm, got blobbed by 3 other myrms, killed one, died, lost what, 40m? No 250m, if I had used an ishtar I probably wouldn't even have killed one of the 3 myrms cause I had crappier damage (less turrets/nos). Already could fly Caldari HACs, but the eagle does **** damage, and the cerb is great for lvl3 missions, but I'd say, you might as well get like a raven and do it twice as fast, or just do lvl4s. Vagabond however you won't lose that quick. Mostly HACs are inferior to the tier2 battlecruisers, especially the myrmidon. However, not always, BUT, when my ishtar cost me 200-250m, my myrm 30-50m, that's what made me decide. In the days of blobbing and gatecamps a great faction battleship won't save you from 6 other battleships, let alone a HAC that's just as strong as a 3-5 times cheaper battlecruiser. However, the vagabond you barely use. Can get some really nice speed and outrange the guy at 12km with really nice damage. If anything goes wrong you warp out, you'll likely survive 5x as many blobs, and thus it's really not overly expensive compared to the battlecruisers. Min HAC is great. Other HACs are awesome too, but cost 3-5 times as much, when the recent changes drop t2 ships closer to their build prices (20-40m for HACs) they might be worth it.
VanNostrum	Posted - 2007.03.22 08:04:00 - [18] i also like Sacrilege, since it's price is down to 66-67 mil
Mathias Orsen	Posted - 2007.03.22 09:44:00 - [19] small thing to note... while your training to fly all of these HACs... other people are training to make that one BC they like to fly able to pop every one of your HACs with ease. What good is flying lots of ships if you can't fly any of them very well? -------------------------------------- ---"What's in your wallet?"--- "There are two kinds of respect, fear and admiration.... I'll take what I can get"
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.03.22 10:01:00 - [20] Originally by: Mathias Orsen small thing to note... while your training to fly all of these HACs... other people are training to make that one BC they like to fly able to pop every one of your HACs with ease. What good is flying lots of ships if you can't fly any of them very well? Who says he cant fly all of them well? _________________________ ~Thor Xian, Star Commander
Furious Dude	Posted - 2007.03.22 10:56:00 - [21] Minmatar for hit 'n runs behind enemy lines (yes, Vaga is still fast) or sniping. Train for the Sleipnir afterwards, you won't regret it Gallente for close-range "in your face, RAAWWWRRRR" combat. The Deimos isn't that unless you're in a larger gang, but the Ishtar rocks. Plus you can train for the Eos afterwards, which is one of THE best PVP ships in EVE.
Gridan	Posted - 2007.03.22 11:32:00 - [22] In my opinion if you're bored of amarr go for the opposite, caldari shield tank + missiles cerberus. Nighthawks have the meanest tank in the game and can muscle through 6-strong gatecamps like its nothing. Im sure you've run into a drake lately thats just had an enormous amount of hp with jacked up resists, solid shield recharge, and still drops people with it's ** damage because it can last for 30 minutes vs 10 people beating on it. I know you said "dont point out the command ships" but 60 62.5 70% base shield resists with a 5% per level command ship resist bonus and shield rigs 5 lows for spr's and 5 mids with its damage bonuses makes a nighthawk hands down the best command ship in the game. All you need to do is go 3 LSE II's, slap on an invuln with a warp scram for mid, 3 spr IIs 2 bcu IIs with 6 heavy launcher IIs and a tractor beam to loot their wrecks as you kill them. Rigs = 1 shield extender 1 recharge and you're golden. They arent going to *** your 25k hp shields with solid recharge before you dish out an abnormal amount of damage, reload, and then do it again. Really for cost-effectiveness go a drake with this setup with 2 invulns 1 less bcu and an extra 15% shield hp rig. It is THEE most cost effective ship in the game, ive taken on people 1v10 with a drake and dropped half of them (literally) before going down or getting away, and taken out their big ships too. Why even go for the "OMG nano-it-out so you MIGHT be able to run" strategy when you can just plow through everything you encounter?
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.22 12:44:00 - [23] Originally by: Zaethiel Originally by: Destr0math Minmatar. Sniper-HAC with the munin, and the vagabond, while being a 1-trick pony does that one trick very well. Gallente just don't have the depth- ishtar is decent, but far outperformed by the myrm, and the deimos is somewhat bland as well. Caldari- Eagle is fine for sniping, but does pretty worthless damage. Price is nice, but the Munin outperforms it in the same role. Cerb is just expensive as hell, and really not worth the ISK. Tank is okay, but for solo pvp will be weak for the amount of money you're spending. Decent for gangwork, adds damage and that extra pimp-osity Basically. The Zealot is nice for damage but has less ganking power than the deimos. The Sac is actually decent though it really doesnt do a lot of damage its pretty good for wandering around attacking just about anything with since you can fit mwd scram web cap injector (one of hte only Hacs that isnt slaughtered by nos). I fly my zealot a lot but whenever i get into a fight i find myself stop running my reps just so i can keep shooting so basically i just sit and see who dies first cause im forever blowing my cap. In my case, I take full advantage of a 10% optimal range bonus on a zealot and turn it into a 100km machine gun sniper wtih t2 Auroa Crystals. Ceptors MWDing away from you? Pop. -- In Internet Explorer, You keep tabs on your browser. In Soviet Russia, browser keeps tabs on you
Angus McLean Gallente Divinity Trials	Posted - 2007.03.22 17:48:00 - [24] Ive found the Amarr HACs quite distasteful. The zealot is not very good at keeping its cap going while tanking/ganking (and not that much tanking tbh). The sac...well...its Khanid. So Im going to pick between the Minmatar or Gallente HACs, I dont really like using anything higher than medium T2 drones...that leaves me with minmatar. The real question is, which one do you find more fun to fly - Munnin or the Vaga? Vaga looks good but I imagine it will take a while to learn to fly well, and without gistii MWD's and snakes its not too amazing. So using T2 and a bit o' faction, which would anyone here choose? (Side note, can anyone tell me from personal experience how well the Munnin armor tanks ) ---------------- Freedom Of Speech Band of Brothers T-shirt
Angus McLean Gallente Divinity Trials	Posted - 2007.03.22 17:48:00 - [25] Ive found the Amarr HACs quite distasteful. The zealot is not very good at keeping its cap going while tanking/ganking (and not that much tanking tbh). The sac...well...its Khanid. So Im going to pick between the Minmatar or Gallente HACs, I dont really like using anything higher than medium T2 drones...that leaves me with minmatar. The real question is, which one do you find more fun to fly - Munnin or the Vaga? Vaga looks good but I imagine it will take a while to learn to fly well, and without gistii MWD's and snakes its not too amazing. So using T2 and a bit o' faction, which would anyone here choose? (Side note, can anyone tell me from personal experience how well the Munnin armor tanks ) ---------------- Freedom Of Speech Band of Brothers T-shirt
DarkElf Caldari Veto.	Posted - 2007.03.22 18:03:00 - [26] if u hav crappy drone skills then i'd rule gallente hacs out right away. vaga is a great ship and can do some amazing thing as both a quality solo ship and a group tackler. caldari hacs are either cerb which is naff solo like most other caldari ships but great in a group or the eagle which is a nice frig insta popper from 100km+ but other than not great. so basically if i were u i'd go minnie and get a vaga. assuming u have decent nav skills and t2 medium autos that is. DE
DarkElf Caldari Veto.	Posted - 2007.03.22 18:03:00 - [27] if u hav crappy drone skills then i'd rule gallente hacs out right away. vaga is a great ship and can do some amazing thing as both a quality solo ship and a group tackler. caldari hacs are either cerb which is naff solo like most other caldari ships but great in a group or the eagle which is a nice frig insta popper from 100km+ but other than not great. so basically if i were u i'd go minnie and get a vaga. assuming u have decent nav skills and t2 medium autos that is. DE
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2007.03.22 18:11:00 - [28] Well I'm a variaton freak so I have all cruiser lvl 5's and tbh you should judge them form the CS lvl cuz once you train that you won't fly HAC's anymore... I used to fly vaga alot but tbh I switched to sleipnir on HAC lvl the one I've flown teh most is probably the zealot and after that the ishtar/vaga. So I suppose for you it would be the vaga. If you're in for spending some bucks i really do like cerb for pvp
Barrick Stormsworn Minmatar CAD Inc. Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.03.22 18:31:00 - [29] The Muninn has a beastly tank, and I've been very impressed with my mates that have flown it. Plus, I just love the look of the Rupture hull :-P 720s that hit at almost any range you're going to be at and dole out the harshness, meanwhile armour tanking like mad and having all that beautiful cap just for surviving. Don't forget that Gallente have to split their cap between tank and gank. On top of that, the minnie recons are tops. Get some electronic superiority rigs and put two sensor damps and a single web and scram on them and you can hold just about anything with very little risk. You get the same benefit as the Gal recon, but with more damage and being able to hold your target better. Plus, as much as I love my drones, I'm tired of using weapons that I have so little control over. And that can be blown up. And take a while to reach the target. Personally, I'm ready to return to guns.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2007.03.22 19:17:00 - [30] Originally by: Barrick Stormsworn The Muninn has a beastly tank, and I've been very impressed with my mates that have flown it. Plus, I just love the look of the Rupture hull :-P 720s that hit at almost any range you're going to be at and dole out the harshness, meanwhile armour tanking like mad and having all that beautiful cap just for surviving. Don't forget that Gallente have to split their cap between tank and gank. On top of that, the minnie recons are tops. Get some electronic superiority rigs and put two sensor damps and a single web and scram on them and you can hold just about anything with very little risk. You get the same benefit as the Gal recon, but with more damage and being able to hold your target better. Plus, as much as I love my drones, I'm tired of using weapons that I have so little control over. And that can be blown up. And take a while to reach the target. Personally, I'm ready to return to guns. tbh I think the muninn's tank is utterly crap unless you're fighting amarr
Durindana Gallente Solar Wind Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.23 00:53:00 - [31] Caldari. I fly Eagles almost exclusively - you can snipe at 200km, and for an all-tech2 setup that costs maybe 110M isk total the Beagle is waaaay underrated.
LordChaos Amarr Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.03.23 04:32:00 - [32] everyone hates amarr in pvp lol except for 2-3 people Gallente cruiser V finishes in 10 days astarte/EOS/ishtar/Deimos will be MINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Master Of Chaos Celes
Megan Maynard Minmatar RONA Deepspace	Posted - 2007.03.23 05:40:00 - [33] Munnin, with armor rigs, that is just sick, now add t2 weapons........ BC's run and hide.
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.23 07:59:00 - [34] Originally by: Megan Maynard Munnin, with armor rigs, that is just sick, now add t2 weapons........ BC's run and hide. ... Rupture can do it nearly as good for 1/10 of the price. Vagabond is SO much infinitely better than muninn. Muninn is only used as arty platform to gank from 100km on frigs. Eagle is so meh... the damage is pathetic... I can warp out my ceptor 5 times before an eagle kills me =/ Don't get me started on cerb... why would you use a cerb over a drake? Spam missiles at 150km? Well that only works vs npc... I agree with the person who posted about sniping zealot setup. A sniping zealot actually outperforms both the eagle and muninn by a very considerable margin. The zealot's disadvantage though, are it's 3 midslots, same as deimos. You really need an injector these days - that means either no speed mod, no scram or no web... And as previously said, why would you fly ishtar, when a myrm or domi can do the same for a fraction of the price? HAC's are all nice and dandy, but atm the only pvp effective hacs imo are: 1. Vagabond 2. Zealot/Muninn sniping. However if you take a look at the commandships... Eos/Astarte/Sleipnir/Absolution are wonderful. The caldari ones have a big tank, but lack DPS really. I'd say an abso can tank nearly as well as a nighthawk, while putting out a huge amount more pain. N.F.F. Recruitment
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.03.23 08:28:00 - [35] Originally by: Ryysa Rupture can do it nearly as good for 1/10 of the price. Vagabond is SO much infinitely better than muninn. Muninn is only used as arty platform to gank from 100km on frigs. Eagle is so meh... the damage is pathetic... I can warp out my ceptor 5 times before an eagle kills me =/ Don't get me started on cerb... why would you use a cerb over a drake? Spam missiles at 150km? Well that only works vs npc... I agree with the person who posted about sniping zealot setup. A sniping zealot actually outperforms both the eagle and muninn by a very considerable margin. The zealot's disadvantage though, are it's 3 midslots, same as deimos. You really need an injector these days - that means either no speed mod, no scram or no web... And as previously said, why would you fly ishtar, when a myrm or domi can do the same for a fraction of the price? HAC's are all nice and dandy, but atm the only pvp effective hacs imo are: 1. Vagabond 2. Zealot/Muninn sniping. However if you take a look at the commandships... Eos/Astarte/Sleipnir/Absolution are wonderful. The caldari ones have a big tank, but lack DPS really. I'd say an abso can tank nearly as well as a nighthawk, while putting out a huge amount more pain. good point. not much reason to pay hac prices w/ the new BC's. but op wants one so just entertaining that... remember, muninn only has 3 midslots too, and i can def believe a zealot can do the job as a good or better. (matar and amarr actually have some similar ships when you get down to it) in fact, to justify the prices, the only ship worth really goin out of your way for is the vagabond. and thats only if you wanna fly the speed/buffertank gank (which is a blast but more limited than alot of ppl realize) eagle's damage is kinda douched. but its not that atrocious. should be able to double volley a inty if ya have any business flying it at all. and yeah, cmd ships are completely pimp

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