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Best incursion ship(s) to aim for?

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IMeres Hellfire Heavy Industries Monkey Religion 0	Posted - 2011.12.22 18:29:00 - [1] - Quote Hello, I've recently started to develop an interest in incursions, and I'm planning on acquiring (either buying or training from scratch) a toon to do incursions with. Since my PVE experience is rather limited (only did mining and industry, no missioning, plexes or WH) I got no clue what I'm looking for. So I'm asking: what are the ships that are considered 'good' for incursions (both armor and shield tanked)?
sabre906 The Scope Gallente Federation 31	Posted - 2011.12.22 18:31:00 - [2] - Quote Legion. Nightmare.
SpaceSquirrels 39	Posted - 2011.12.22 18:35:00 - [3] - Quote Combat? logistics? What role?
IMeres Hellfire Heavy Industries Monkey Religion 0	Posted - 2011.12.22 18:37:00 - [4] - Quote SpaceSquirrels wrote: Combat? logistics? What role? Preferably combat. I want to try my hand at shooting stuff. I assume any armor logi is good for armor fleet, and any shield logi is good for shield fleets, right?
sabre906 The Scope Gallente Federation 31	Posted - 2011.12.22 18:39:00 - [5] - Quote IMeres wrote: SpaceSquirrels wrote: Combat? logistics? What role? Preferably combat. I want to try my hand at shooting stuff. I assume any armor logi is good for armor fleet, and any shield logi is good for shield fleets, right? Oneiros. Scimatar. Lvl5 with links.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 29	Posted - 2011.12.22 19:11:00 - [6] - Quote For shield, Machariel and Nightmare are the staples, Vindi is also good but doesn't get picked as much for some reason, Bhaalgorn and Loki both make good webbers. Other than that most "shiny" fleets won't even consider letting you in. (maybe a vargur?) For Armor, it seems Legion fleets are becoming the norm.
Rharkon Askari Mining Co. New Genesis Syndicate 1	Posted - 2011.12.22 20:22:00 - [7] - Quote I don't know the correct answer to your question, but I will ask: is a Hurricane good for Incursions? Or should I build up my armory and wait for something more powerful, like a Typhoon, or even "higher up" than that?
Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 164	Posted - 2011.12.22 20:33:00 - [8] - Quote Rharkon wrote: I don't know the correct answer to your question, but I will ask: is a Hurricane good for Incursions? Or should I build up my armory and wait for something more powerful, like a Typhoon, or even "higher up" than that? It's not as hilariously bad as the Drake at Incursions, but still far from being preferred. For minmatar chars, a T2 fit Maelstrom with some slight pimp to it's webs is pretty much what will get you over the "hump" of not being invited to fleets. Alternatively, you could go for a web Loki (shield or armor), which requires much less training time at the cost of more isk sunk into ship/fit.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 29	Posted - 2011.12.22 21:23:00 - [9] - Quote The cane is actually quite good at running frig-heavy sites.
Arazel Chainfire Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension 32	Posted - 2011.12.22 21:26:00 - [10] - Quote All 4 of the logi's work well enough, and as long as you can do 4 large reps Top ships for shield: Battleship Fleet (OTA Blitz goal): (most common shield fleet) Nightmare Mach sometimes vindicator sometimes bhaalghorn some fleets like web loki's Cruiser fleet (focus on NCO's): Slepnir Web Loki Vindicator For armor fleets: Battleship Fleet (for OTA focus): Abaddon Vindicator Paladin bhaalghorn sometimes web loki Cruiser Fleet (for NCO focus): (note, appears to be more common armor fleet) Legion Absolution Vindicator sometimes web loki Maybe Paladin? There are of course other ships that work, but generally top of the line fleets run those ships. Personally, I really like the nightmare, but if I were to focus on running sites again I would probably run with paladin's, because you get the full benefit of high dps pulse lasers and the webs from a vindicator. -Arazel

IMeres Hellfire Heavy Industries Monkey Religion 0	Posted - 2011.12.22 21:44:00 - [11] - Quote So if I'm going for armor, the first thing to aim for would be legion, and then abaddon/paladin, correct? Also, what would be a good 'learning ship' for less shiny fleets (I wouldn't want to take a 5-600 mil or more legion on my first incursion run ever)? I'm thinking zealot or harbinger? Last but not least, can anyone recommend a good incursion legion fit? PS: what is NCO and OTA?
sabre906 The Scope Gallente Federation 32	Posted - 2011.12.22 22:12:00 - [12] - Quote Correct. Aim for legion. The less shiny fleets don't get paid those days due to site contest. Zealot was good back when Incursions wasn't crowded. [Legion, Vanguard] Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Energy Burst Aerator II Legion Defensive - Augmented Plating Legion Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers Legion Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst NCO = Nation Commander Outpost OTA = Override Transfer Array
Elindreal Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 35	Posted - 2011.12.22 23:05:00 - [13] - Quote learn on t2 800s shield maelstrom learn on t2 pulse armour abaddon all your goal ships are listed above
Julia Connor Caldari Provisions Caldari State 14	Posted - 2011.12.23 03:37:00 - [14] - Quote LEGION OWNS ALL.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 2146	Posted - 2011.12.23 04:18:00 - [15] - Quote VultureGÇª GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
Endeavour Starfleet Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 55	Posted - 2011.12.23 04:47:00 - [16] - Quote It is pretty sad that unless you are in a 2-3B isk ship with plenty of faction mods. You just don't get picked. This is the consequence of having the incursion system without the necessary variation in DPS that would prevent as much will to use the "shiny" fleets. If CCP would make the spawn alot more random (Where suddenly you can get WTFpwned before the logis can get to you) stuff. Fitting for tank would atleast grow in importance and the overall DPS and ISK/hr reduction would atleast partially stem the waterfall of isk entering the economy and allow those who have invested in tank skills more of a chance to be picked. Early in incursions I was able to get in with a POS raven with some buffer and launchers and it was fun. Now the ONLY thought is ISK/HR.
Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 164	Posted - 2011.12.23 04:52:00 - [17] - Quote Endeavour Starfleet wrote: It is pretty sad that unless you are in a 2-3B isk ship with plenty of faction mods. You just don't get picked. Have corp/alliance incursion fleets, buffer out your numbers with people recruited from BTL or TDF. Quote: Early in incursions I was able to get in with a POS raven with some buffer and launchers and it was fun. Now the ONLY thought is ISK/HR. I can't think of any reason to prolong the process grinding isk in this game, so yeah, isk/hr is at the forefront of my mind. If it don't make dollars, it don't make sense, etc.
Goose99 Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 378	Posted - 2011.12.23 05:35:00 - [18] - Quote Endeavour Starfleet wrote: It is pretty sad that unless you are in a 2-3B isk ship with plenty of faction mods. You just don't get picked. This is the consequence of having the incursion system without the necessary variation in DPS that would prevent as much will to use the "shiny" fleets. If CCP would make the spawn alot more random (Where suddenly you can get WTFpwned before the logis can get to you) stuff. Fitting for tank would atleast grow in importance and the overall DPS and ISK/hr reduction would atleast partially stem the waterfall of isk entering the economy and allow those who have invested in tank skills more of a chance to be picked. Early in incursions I was able to get in with a POS raven with some buffer and launchers and it was fun. Now the ONLY thought is ISK/HR. Actually, it would just be the opposite. Keep in mind a legion/loki can sig tank a full spawn of tamas in NCO for up to one and half minutes without rep, while killing the entire wave alone long before then if he shoots, but an Abaddon with no dmg mod and 3 plates would be gone in less than 20 seconds, while not finish killing the wave even if it had one and half minutes. Making sites harder will lock out the noobs, not favoring them.
Capital T Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 24	Posted - 2011.12.23 05:52:00 - [19] - Quote Nightmare.... IMO.
IMeres Hellfire Heavy Industries Monkey Religion 0	Posted - 2011.12.23 08:28:00 - [20] - Quote So pretty much no chance of getting in a decent fleet that makes cash unless I bring a legion with decent faction mods or better, right? Assuming I go for legion, roughly how much isk/hour would I be looking at?

Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 164	Posted - 2011.12.23 08:32:00 - [21] - Quote IMeres wrote: Assuming I go for legion, roughly how much isk/hour would I be looking at? Between 60-80M/hr consistently, with spurts up to 100M/hr. EDIT: Before LP.
Tsubutai The Tuskers 34	Posted - 2011.12.23 08:44:00 - [22] - Quote IMeres wrote: So pretty much no chance of getting in a decent fleet that makes cash unless I bring a legion with decent faction mods or better, right? If you want to get started with less fancy ships, join HQ/assault fleets instead - they're much more laid back and willing to take sub-optimal shiptypes, at the cost of taking longer to form up and pumping out somewhat less ISK/hr than VGs under ideal conditions. Alternatively, play outside of euro primetime - there's a lot less competition at oddball hours, making it much easier to get fleets with ships that would be passed over when things are busier. However, you'll want to get into something shiny as quickly as possible to get VG fleet invites quickly and consistently. While I know you said you'd prefer a DPS role, do be aware that flying a well-fit logi and being good at it is easily the most cost-effective way of getting into good fleets.
Endeavour Starfleet Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 55	Posted - 2011.12.23 09:15:00 - [23] - Quote He does have a good point. Tho I will add that I consistently noticed logi pilots getting ignored for invites. (Again shiny only sigh) Tho atleast you are starting at around 100M for the ship instead of nearly a Billion. That will leave room for putting the good stuff on that gets you invites. I started training for the logi role. However I just feel it in my bones that CCP is going to swing the nerf bat hard at incursions before I am ready to make any serious funds with it.
IMeres Hellfire Heavy Industries Monkey Religion 0	Posted - 2011.12.23 09:26:00 - [24] - Quote When was the last time CCP nerfed anything in high-sec? Only low/null have gotten the nerfbat income-wise in the past few years.
Jill Antaris Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 26	Posted - 2011.12.23 10:06:00 - [25] - Quote Endeavour Starfleet wrote: It is pretty sad that unless you are in a 2-3B isk ship with plenty of faction mods. You just don't get picked. This is the consequence of having the incursion system without the necessary variation in DPS that would prevent as much will to use the "shiny" fleets. Actually the really good setups aren't really expensive, since they don't relay on over pimped tankes, just on good hulls(Bahl, Pala, Legion, NM) and the pimp in the DPS/Web/T2 weapon rigs. Also the main difference about making a good buck or just sitting around like back in the days is fleet discipline and organization. I just tried out a new Incursion channel yesterday, and even with Megas and pretty bad fittings(Vindi w/o FN webs are pretty fail) we where able to pull off a acceptable runtime out of the sites(with some NM help and lucky me the fitting is build around working without webbing support). The main difference however was after every site you had someone that needs to leave or take a small break, people where more focused on small talking than the actual incursion and overall ISK/h was pretty much crap. It is much more about dedicated people than dedicated ships/fittings, however most people that are serious here are far more likely actually bringing a good setup. This is one of the major difference to stuff like Legion Blitz gangs or good Assault gangs, stuff like this isn't acceptable there and gets you replaced with a more effective player(no matter what hull you fly) and since this most likely also pulls good fittings and players in, it doesn't come at a big surprise that this fleets steamroll sites under competition. Endeavour Starfleet wrote: If CCP would make the spawn alot more random (Where suddenly you can get WTFpwned before the logis can get to you) stuff. Fitting for tank would atleast grow in importance and the overall DPS and ISK/hr reduction would atleast partially stem the waterfall of isk entering the economy and allow those who have invested in tank skills more of a chance to be picked. Early in incursions I was able to get in with a POS raven with some buffer and launchers and it was fun. Now the ONLY thought is ISK/HR. The reason because you can go light on tank in good gangs is that you most likely will also have good logis that are on the ball. You can take the same tank in a gang with 2 T2 RR fitted Logi 5 setups w/o hitting less then 80% on the tanking layer or 3 random logis wile constantly hitting below the 50% ballpark because somebody doesn't pay attention. VGs don't even push you as a good logi, since you should have anybody locked/in watchlist, the more tricky part is to catch people in Assaults+ that forget to post by confirming visually what ships takes the damage and marking the RR target to the other logis as Logi FC or starting cycle schemes in the cap chain to keep cap heavy/neuted ships running while keeping every logi caped up at the same time. I can remember people forming Assault fleets in the early days, 1h formup, by a guy that never FCed such sides, with T1 Snipers that forget long range ammo, Ravens that forget SBs and Logis leaving right in the site because they had something better to do. The reason this fleets where just a wast of time for anybody evolved was not that the lack of expensive hulls but the lack of organization. IMeres wrote: So pretty much no chance of getting in a decent fleet that makes cash unless I bring a legion with decent faction mods or better, right? Assuming I go for legion, roughly how much isk/hour would I be looking at? Depends a lot what kind of fleet you are in and how good it is organized. A well FCed Legion only fleet can pull off the 100M+. In my opinion it is a lot more about you being effective in your ship, knowing what counts(200M for faction damage mods and FN webs does, super pimped tanks don't), knowing yourself how to run the sites very efficient and being a good team player.
Dravidshky Falling Outside The Normal Moral Constraints 2	Posted - 2011.12.23 10:20:00 - [26] - Quote I used to run with a T2/Meta 4 fitted Megathron until I amde the isk to upgrade, and even now the only expensive modules I use are fed navy webs, imp navy EANMs and imp navy heatsinks. and a friend of mine recently started running incs with pretty much the same fit as I started out with and he don't have any trouble getting into a fleet. If you cant get into a fleet without a 3b pimpmobile you're X'ing up in the wrong channel.
IMeres Hellfire Heavy Industries Monkey Religion 0	Posted - 2011.12.23 11:44:00 - [27] - Quote Thanks everyone for the feedback:) Re ppl leaving after one site: how long (sites and time) does an incursion op usually last? Also, I'd be most grateful if smb pointed me to some decent incursion channels(armor ones, since I'm set on a legion)
Jill Antaris Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 26	Posted - 2011.12.23 12:00:00 - [28] - Quote IMeres wrote: Thanks everyone for the feedback:) Re ppl leaving after one site: how long (sites and time) does an incursion op usually last? Also, I'd be most grateful if smb pointed me to some decent incursion channels(armor ones, since.I'm set on a legion Depends a bit, some gangs run basically 23/7 they just swap out logis, DPS and FCs. Most will be alive and kicking for 3-5h, if you have a proper FC that also can replace people quick you looking at about 25-40 VGs or 12-20 Assault sites. Try "The Ditanian Fleet" for armor gangs.
Xavier Angelo Aurae Scientia Solyaris Chtonium 0	Posted - 2011.12.23 13:58:00 - [29] - Quote For Shield VG's Vindi has the highest DPS and the Nightmare has the highest applied DPS w/o webs The mach is inferior to both ships. I ran the math for all 3 BEFORE the blaster tracking buff
Goose99 Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 379	Posted - 2011.12.23 16:36:00 - [30] - Quote Xavier Angelo wrote: For Shield VG's Vindi has the highest DPS and the Nightmare has the highest applied DPS w/o webs The mach is inferior to both ships. I ran the math for all 3 BEFORE the blaster tracking buff Lol@math. Note the EFT warrioring right there. If math comes into it Vindi fleet would have a chance contesting with Legion fleet in NCOs. Ironically, armor Mach fleet is the only one that stands a chance - similar dmg projection, tracking speed, cruiser sized locking speed, sig, agility, speed, etc.



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