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damps ( teh idea)

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wierchas noobhunter The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.22 14:34:00 - [1] soo looks like damps are teh most owerpowered module atm and ofc with eve whiners it will be nefred soon why? well cos we dont have module who can counter damps sencor boosters are not that effective against them 1 damp from skilled player = 3x sensor booster II or so ( fix me if i am not right) so why do we need nefr somethink or invent new modules to ballance something? my idea 1x sencor booster should remove effect from 1 sencor damper lets say i am in bs with 1x sensor booster and celestis starts to damping me with 3x damps so one sencor damp effect will be removed and other 2 damps wont get stacking penalized from first one oki lets say i am in fleet bs with 3x sencor bosters so effect from 3x sencor dampers will be removed other wont be stacking penalized from those 3 damps why it would help ? cos in lots of setups more then 1 sencor booster are wery rare ( only fleets or wery specific setups) and ussing lots of sencor booster to counter all damping is hard ( fitting problems, cap use, other stuff in those slots) so wut u think guys? wierchas hello i am wierchas !!!! i pown yooooo
VanNostrum	Posted - 2007.03.22 14:46:00 - [2] People sacrifice valuable mid slots for dampeners, where they also need to put MWD/AB,scram,web,shield booster, cap injector etc. though sensor booster is also mid slot i'd only suggest making sensor booster a low slot module
wierchas noobhunter The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.22 14:48:00 - [3] Originally by: VanNostrum People sacrifice valuable mid slots for dampeners, where they also need to put MWD/AB,scram,web,shield booster, cap injector etc. though sensor booster is also mid slot i'd only suggest making sensor booster a low slot module so dont be *** and dont put damps in ships that are not damping ships ? hello i am wierchas !!!! i pown yooooo
Borasao	Posted - 2007.03.22 15:11:00 - [4] Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: VanNostrum People sacrifice valuable mid slots for dampeners, where they also need to put MWD/AB,scram,web,shield booster, cap injector etc. though sensor booster is also mid slot i'd only suggest making sensor booster a low slot module so dont be *** and dont put damps in ships that are not damping ships ? Why not? People put stuff on their ships all the time that the ship doesn't have bonuses for. Putting them on damping ships just makes them better. Maybe cut the modules' damping power by 1/2 and give damping ships even bigger bonuses to compensate (just like EW).
VanNostrum	Posted - 2007.03.22 15:16:00 - [5] Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: VanNostrum People sacrifice valuable mid slots for dampeners, where they also need to put MWD/AB,scram,web,shield booster, cap injector etc. though sensor booster is also mid slot i'd only suggest making sensor booster a low slot module so dont be *** and dont put damps in ships that are not damping ships ? i'm not saying that, what i'm saying is people sacrifice other stuff by using damps, use it if you have high EW skills if you want to plus, a sensor booster II increases scan resolution by 60%, and a phased muon rsd decreases it to 42% with maxed skills, so it's like roughly 3 sensor booster II = 2 phased muons with maxed related EW skills
Wardo21 The Arcanum	Posted - 2007.03.22 15:23:00 - [6] Originally by: VanNostrum People sacrifice valuable (high/mid/low) slots for (module x/y/z)... (edited a bit) That argument helped so much before the nerf bat was leveled on WCS. Probably a host of other modules tried that argument as well, but my memory is shot for a specific instance. My suggestion is no stacking of certain modules, and no multiple activations of certain modules on a single target even by multiple ships. Takes care of a ship so loaded with dampers that a single target has no hope of ever targeting anything back, while the damper's squad mate turns the victim into space debris. On a side note it also answers the complaints about 8 Nos battleship tacklers, and the other "using so many of module X at once is overkill" arguments. Sure you can fit 5 dampers, but you have to use them on 5 separate targets. Only one overdrive/CPU-upgrade/power diagnostic/gyroscope/heatsink/balistic-control/etc. per ship, that way the unforseen combinations of 8 of something don't become the next gank-fitting du jour. I think this suggestion would put more variations into the ship fittings seen, both for PvP and PvE players. It should also extend combat by reducing the number of total locks obtainable by the players, such as multiple Nos/dampers/webbers/nanos. Wardo21
Kulmid Bringers of Misfortune	Posted - 2007.03.22 15:55:00 - [7] Edited by: Kulmid on 22/03/2007 15:51:54 Originally by: Wardo21 Originally by: VanNostrum People sacrifice valuable (high/mid/low) slots for (module x/y/z)... a bad idea uhh... did you think about this one at all? This will end all variation in **** fitting cause it would be, "do I wanna do more damage and fit multiple dmg mods?" or "do I wanna tank better and fit plates?" because everyone will be forced to go, "one of these, one of these, one of these, and one of those!" because that will be the only choice the have. Edit: spelling
TZeer BURN EDEN GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.03.22 16:09:00 - [8] Can you guys actually stop demanding a nerf to everything you dont kill on first try? In the end there will be no difference in what people fit on their ships. It will all be about gang or tank. With the specialised ships inbetween. No personal flavour... In other words the freedom we have in this game to fit/tune our ships will be gone. Everything will boil down to who can fit the best hardener/gun+++... If the diversety goes away... eve will die. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
wierchas noobhunter The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.22 16:11:00 - [9] Originally by: TZeer Can you guys actually stop demanding a nerf to everything you dont kill on first try? In the end there will be no difference in what people fit on their ships. It will all be about gang or tank. With the specialised ships inbetween. No personal flavour... In other words the freedom we have in this game to fit/tune our ships will be gone. Everything will boil down to who can fit the best hardener/gun+++... If the diversety goes away... eve will die. lol dude its just my idea i dont say * zomg nefr it * its just idea ... take it easy i wil not take your raven from u ... hello i am wierchas !!!! i pown yooooo
TZeer BURN EDEN GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.03.22 16:21:00 - [10] Hehe I know it`s just an idea. It`s just that this is like number "omfglotsofnumber" post about nerfing something. This time CCP actually made some good changes, but the first thing people started doing was: What can we nerf now? What should be nerfed? OMG nerf this! If every post about suggestions to nerfing stuff had been followed through, damn what a boring game we would have had then. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Kulmid Bringers of Misfortune	Posted - 2007.03.22 16:25:00 - [11] Originally by: TZeer This time CCP actually made some good changes, but the first thing people started doing was: What can we nerf now? What should be nerfed? OMG nerf this! agreed. it is utterly pathetic when people say, "what do we nerf next?"
Celedris Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.03.22 16:32:00 - [12] If a Celestis running 3x RSD IIs with good skills is not able to damp a single target effectively, then there will simply be no reason to ever fly it or its recon variants. You are talking about a specialized support ship with 3-4 dedicated EW slots that has pitiful damage and no tank. The real question is: do you think a specialized support ship should be able to to effectively neutralize one or two enemy ships? A single damp won't do much of anything on a normal non-damp ship. Even with two damps, a single sensor booster will let you get a lock in a reasonable amount of time if you get up close. Of course if a specialized EW damp-boat is running three RSD IIs on a single target that target will be screwed; isn't that the point?
JP Moregain Gallente EVE Reserve Bank	Posted - 2007.03.22 16:50:00 - [13] I believe the nerf is: Get your buddy with an interceptor to attack him... With damps you still need to control the engagement range. You won't be able to versus a decent skilled interceptor pilot who will MWD right up to to damp-o-matic and likely even lock before they do ... http://www.evereserve.com
maihem TBC Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.22 17:20:00 - [14] whine whine whine nerf ECM nerf Nanos nerf WCSs whine some more about the next thing nerf Dampeners nerf cloaking nerf local whine some more until the game is just the way YOU want it. learn to play people! you sound like a bunch of socor players rolling around on the ground holding your knees trying to get some one a red card. try Hockey, it hardens you the F up. I dont jog, it makes the ice cubes jump right out of my glass.
wierchas noobhunter The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.22 17:22:00 - [15] Originally by: maihem whine whine whine nerf ECM nerf Nanos nerf WCSs whine some more about the next thing nerf Dampeners nerf cloaking nerf local whine some more until the game is just the way YOU want it. learn to play people! you sound like a bunch of socor players rolling around on the ground holding your knees trying to get some one a red card. try Hockey, it hardens you the F up. ohh good stfu are u soo dumb ? it wil be nefred sooner or latter why ?? cos ******* 60% of eve use them when it will come when all will use it will be nefred get a clue or some brains and read what i have posted hello i am wierchas !!!! i pown yooooo
maihem TBC Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.22 17:24:00 - [16] Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: maihem whine whine whine nerf ECM nerf Nanos nerf WCSs whine some more about the next thing nerf Dampeners nerf cloaking nerf local whine some more until the game is just the way YOU want it. learn to play people! you sound like a bunch of socor players rolling around on the ground holding your knees trying to get some one a red card. try Hockey, it hardens you the F up. ohh good stfu are u soo dumb ? it wil be nefred sooner or latter why ?? cos ******* 60% of eve use them when it will come when all will use it will be nefred get a clue or some brains and read what i have posted whine about people calling you a whiner too nerf that too I dont jog, it makes the ice cubes jump right out of my glass.
wierchas noobhunter The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.22 17:27:00 - [17] Originally by: maihem Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: maihem whine whine whine nerf ECM nerf Nanos nerf WCSs whine some more about the next thing nerf Dampeners nerf cloaking nerf local whine some more until the game is just the way YOU want it. learn to play people! you sound like a bunch of socor players rolling around on the ground holding your knees trying to get some one a red card. try Hockey, it hardens you the F up. ohh good stfu are u soo dumb ? it wil be nefred sooner or latter why ?? cos ******* 60% of eve use them when it will come when all will use it will be nefred get a clue or some brains and read what i have posted whine about people calling you a whiner too nerf that too just go and hide in npc staion.. i soo hate people who killed few bs and they think are now someone get back to your staion newby hello i am wierchas !!!! i pown yooooo
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.03.22 17:28:00 - [18] The problem I have with the whole Sensor Booster/RSD thing has a few aspects: 1. Neither take into account the Sensor Strength of a Ship. 2. Sensor Boosters buff both locking range and locking speed. 3. RSDs debuff both locking range and locking speed. 1. I think having a high sensor strength should matter. If say the dampening ship has 10, and the dampened ship has 25, the RSDs should have a 60% reduced effectiveness. This would not work in reverse, ie. no RSD buff from having higher sensor strength than the target. Makes Carriers more viable in straight up combat, while not really nerfing the GalRecons. Celestis would probably need a little buff. 2. In all the time I've been playing Eve, it has never made sense to me that you could buff both locking range and locking speed with the same module. I personally think lock range and lock speed should be on a direct relation equation. If you buff lock range by 60%, you should take a lock speed debuff by 30% (debuff half strength of buff to keep things at least a little workable, but debuff isnt stacking penalized) and inversely buffing lock speed should nerf lock range. Obviously this would require new modules, one for the lock range, and one for the lock speed. 3. RSDs should debuff lock range only, which would incidently buff the lock speed of the target. The idea would still be to 'dance' outside its range, but gives the target a chance to fight back if a mistake is made. _________________________ ~Thor Xian, Star Commander
maihem TBC Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.22 17:40:00 - [19] Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: maihem Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: maihem whine whine whine nerf ECM nerf Nanos nerf WCSs whine some more about the next thing nerf Dampeners nerf cloaking nerf local whine some more until the game is just the way YOU want it. learn to play people! you sound like a bunch of socor players rolling around on the ground holding your knees trying to get some one a red card. try Hockey, it hardens you the F up. ohh good stfu are u soo dumb ? it wil be nefred sooner or latter why ?? cos ******* 60% of eve use them when it will come when all will use it will be nefred get a clue or some brains and read what i have posted whine about people calling you a whiner too nerf that too just go and hide in npc staion.. i soo hate people who killed few bs and they think are now someone get back to your staion newby nerf NPC stations! nerf Noobs! make the game the way I want it!! I dont jog, it makes the ice cubes jump right out of my glass.
wierchas noobhunter The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.22 17:41:00 - [20] Originally by: maihem Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: maihem Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: maihem whine whine whine nerf ECM nerf Nanos nerf WCSs whine some more about the next thing nerf Dampeners nerf cloaking nerf local whine some more until the game is just the way YOU want it. learn to play people! you sound like a bunch of socor players rolling around on the ground holding your knees trying to get some one a red card. try Hockey, it hardens you the F up. ohh good stfu are u soo dumb ? it wil be nefred sooner or latter why ?? cos ******* 60% of eve use them when it will come when all will use it will be nefred get a clue or some brains and read what i have posted whine about people calling you a whiner too nerf that too just go and hide in npc staion.. i soo hate people who killed few bs and they think are now someone get back to your staion newby nerf NPC stations! nerf Noobs! make the game the way I want it!! wow u want nefr your self ?? just go and cansel subscribtion .... hello i am wierchas !!!! i pown yooooo
Karma Coma The Rising Stars	Posted - 2007.03.22 18:03:00 - [21] Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: maihem Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: maihem Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: maihem whine whine whine nerf ECM nerf Nanos nerf WCSs whine some more about the next thing nerf Dampeners nerf cloaking nerf local whine some more until the game is just the way YOU want it. learn to play people! you sound like a bunch of socor players rolling around on the ground holding your knees trying to get some one a red card. try Hockey, it hardens you the F up. ohh good stfu are u soo dumb ? it wil be nefred sooner or latter why ?? cos ******* 60% of eve use them when it will come when all will use it will be nefred get a clue or some brains and read what i have posted whine about people calling you a whiner too nerf that too just go and hide in npc staion.. i soo hate people who killed few bs and they think are now someone get back to your staion newby nerf NPC stations! nerf Noobs! make the game the way I want it!! wow u want nefr your self ?? just go and cansel subscribtion .... Sorry but maihem beats you. It takes 3x sensor damps to make them of any use unless were talking about fleet fights. Most fights happen within the 20km mark and it takes 3x sensor damps to get a raven to 15km. Granted it works better on smaller ships, however, these smaller ships fight at shorter range.
hydraSlav Synergy Evolved Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2007.03.22 18:09:00 - [22] Damps are already nerfed. They didn't use to, but since RMR (i think) they got stacking nerfed on the target, so anything more than 3 damps on the target is really a waste cause of highly diminishing returns. Besides, while the enemy is wasting 3 mid slots on you to damp you, you can counter it with just 2 mid slots with sensor boosters. == Above comments are my personal views Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
maihem TBC Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.22 18:10:00 - [23] Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: maihem Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: maihem Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: maihem whine whine whine nerf ECM nerf Nanos nerf WCSs whine some more about the next thing nerf Dampeners nerf cloaking nerf local whine some more until the game is just the way YOU want it. learn to play people! you sound like a bunch of soccer players rolling around on the ground holding your knees trying to get some one a red card. try Hockey, it hardens you the F up. ohh good stfu are u soo dumb ? it wil be nefred sooner or latter why ?? cos ******* 60% of eve use them when it will come when all will use it will be nefred get a clue or some brains and read what i have posted whine about people calling you a whiner too nerf that too just go and hide in npc staion.. i soo hate people who killed few bs and they think are now someone get back to your staion newby nerf NPC stations! nerf Noobs! make the game the way I want it!! wow u want nefr your self ?? just go and cansel subscribtion .... why? because i am tired of seeing the same thing over and over again on the eve forums? and just so you know, i was not aiming that rant directly at you, it was more of a shotgun blast aimed at the community in general. you can take it personal if you like, but that's your problem then. and by the way, having a character that was created before mine was does not in any way make your opinion more valid than mine, the number of kills i have on a killboard is not all that relevant to the fact i find calls for nerfing annoying. that my alliance is based out of NPC stations is purely a handicap as COW have demonstrated, but that also has nothing to do with the topic. i have now officially lost all interest in this topic and you may have the final word. good day sir. I dont jog, it makes the ice cubes jump right out of my glass.
wierchas noobhunter The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.22 18:11:00 - [24] Originally by: maihem Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: maihem Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: maihem Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: maihem whine whine whine nerf ECM nerf Nanos nerf WCSs whine some more about the next thing nerf Dampeners nerf cloaking nerf local whine some more until the game is just the way YOU want it. learn to play people! you sound like a bunch of soccer players rolling around on the ground holding your knees trying to get some one a red card. try Hockey, it hardens you the F up. ohh good stfu are u soo dumb ? it wil be nefred sooner or latter why ?? cos ******* 60% of eve use them when it will come when all will use it will be nefred get a clue or some brains and read what i have posted whine about people calling you a whiner too nerf that too just go and hide in npc staion.. i soo hate people who killed few bs and they think are now someone get back to your staion newby nerf NPC stations! nerf Noobs! make the game the way I want it!! wow u want nefr your self ?? just go and cansel subscribtion .... why? because i am tired of seeing the same thing over and over again on the eve forums? and just so you know, i was not aiming that rant directly at you, it was more of a shotgun blast aimed at the community in general. you can take it personal if you like, but that's your problem then. and by the way, having a character that was created before mine was does not in any way make your opinion more valid than mine, the number of kills i have on a killboard is not all that relevant to the fact i find calls for nerfing annoying. that my alliance is based out of NPC stations is purely a handicap as COW have demonstrated, but that also has nothing to do with the topic. i have now officially lost all interest in this topic and you may have the final word. good day sir. i see u new here well me points u to some older players ask them who i am ...
Mr Krosis The humble Crew	Posted - 2007.03.23 08:00:00 - [25] The main problem with what wierchas suggests, is that sensor boosters already are a standard fit on a LOT of ships, with multiples not uncommon for sniper setups. The suggestion is also going under the assumption that dampeners are overpowered and need a nerf to begin with. Imagine if I were to propose something similar with a different module. so looks like stasis webifiers are the most overpowered module atm we don't have a module that can counter webs Microwarp drives are not effective against them, even with one running a single web can bring you down to less than 50% of your base speed. AND you can stack the webs but not MWDs and stacked they can bring you down to less than 1% of your original speed. nerf webifiers.. or better yet 1 MWD/AB will remove the effect from 1 webifier This won't harm dedicated webber ships with many modules, it will just stop the random joe from fitting one and totally stopping someone in their tracks. Sounds pretty silly doesn't it? I mean, a web is supposed to slow your ship down. It's what it does right? Why is a sensor dampener so different? It cripples one (well.. two) aspect of your ship. Is it overpowered? 2x Tech2 damps (with L4 suppression skill) against 2x Sensor Booster II comes out to about -50% penalty to targeting. You can also get +25% range with a skill and +10% range from a gang. That comes out to about -31% combined effect. Doesn't sound too overpowered to me considering it uses up 2 mids.. In comparison to ECM, if you got lucky 1 multispec was all you needed and it became overpowering for a single module. Dedicated ECM ships were pretty useful and if they got lucky they could jam several battleships at once. On top of that the effect stuck until the end of the 20 seconds even if they got jammed themselves or had to warp off. A dedicated damp ship can hold 2 targets (assuming 2 damps each) at about -90%, has to be much closer to begin with, and looses their effect seconds after they get jammed or have to warp out. This also wont break locks for people who have had time to get in close. With rigs, specialized ships, and multiple dampeners yeah you can get pretty sick dampener strengths, but nothing has ever had a direct "counter" like ECCM was for ECM. Tracking disruptors hurt tracking significantly more than tracking computers/enhancers boost it, and same goes for dampeners. They wouldn't be used very much if they can't even bring someone down to less than their base stat. This all being said, I personally wouldn't mind if there was some kind of specialized counter-module to EW similar to how ECCM works. A module that otherwise has no benefit but to make you more resistant to something. I like some of Thor Xian's ideas as well, but I'd rather not have sensor strength in particular be the resistance stat, or at least not have it be a direct comparison between the source and target ships sensors. I've noticed on a lot of EW boost modules/rigs/ganglinks the stat listed is "EW Strength Modifier". If it's possible, I think an excelent solution would be a module similar to ECCM (or maybe even added to ECCM) that changes the EW strength modifier in the calculation, but from the victim ship. So if someone damps me with -48%, and I have +20% EW resistance ECCM module, it turns into a -38.4% stat. A single frigate dropping a carrier with multiple sensor boosters down to 15-20km targeting range is just silly, but giving the carrier a base targeting range of 250km doesn't seem like the right solution either. It should work for both damps and tracking disruptors, and you could even give carriers a bonus to this module or some built in stat for it (like how blockade runners have +2 warp strength), so they wouldn't be EW immune, but they could build up a strong resistance to it. So there are some times where damps seem very powerfull, but I don't think a nerf to the module itself is the solution. I don't like the "WCS" negate 1 module solution either. -- Mr Krosis The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
AnarkiTheStorm BloodBath 'N Beyond The Cartel.	Posted - 2007.03.23 10:43:00 - [26] please sir, leave my damps alone :( --- Rararar....
Ren Tales Null Horizon	Posted - 2007.03.23 11:04:00 - [27] Wow... people lose one thing to whine about and they find another. ECM got nerfed so people use damps more. DAMPS ARE NOT OVERPOWERED they do exactly what they're suposed to do. They're cool, and you have to be somewhat clever to take advantage of just one or two. People, just because a module is DECENT and used alot does not make it OVERPOWERED People are dumb. ----
Phoenicia Macabre Votum Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.03.23 11:21:00 - [28] Nerf alliances! They make it too easy to coordinate the demise of smaller alliances! Your Signature exceed the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected])
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.03.23 11:23:00 - [29] Dear god, I work in a school all day and it seems I'm still surrounded by kids when I'm not at work... If they guy wants to toss some ideas around let him. sgb
Deathhawk OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.03.23 11:27:00 - [30] damps have always been like this deal with it ffs!! its not hard to mwd into range.. I ROCK - DH

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