| Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Ayallah
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
599
   |
Posted - 2016.10.12 20:18:30 -
[91] - Quote
The desperate fervor this announcement has inspired in the enemies of the Empire and those who lack faith is only further proof that this decision is the right one.
"What you give to this Empire, I shall give back unto you." - Empress Jamyl I
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2515
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 20:32:39 -
[92] - Quote
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:Let us just all calm down and meet-in person for our next exchange. I think that would be most helpful.
Alizebeth Amalath wrote:I'll have the drinks. My office in Safizon tonight?
Eh, sure, why not? I can bring a jug of Hug Juice. Sami, you comin'? Free booze! |
Alizebeth Amalath
Order of Jamyl
489
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 20:37:33 -
[93] - Quote
I look forward to seeing you there, Ms. Arrendis. No need to bring anything. |
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
329
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 20:46:26 -
[94] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:Arrendis is spot on.
If Amarr does not uphold the principles of the faith, then we do not deserve our Empire. Better to collapse than to continue in sin. Stability for stability's sake is worth nothing.
The choice to allow Khanid to return to the Empire and to participate in the Succession Trials (for a second time) did much to erode the confidence many people once had in those who are supposed to be our betters. That decision now taints all forthcoming decisions like this Exhortation.
History can tell us many stories, one of those stories could be about a certain family legacy. Legacy that brought us a group who paint their ships ebony and steel blue, legacy that still have a postament in Shastal system.
So unless certain servant of God is implying that old mistakes should be remembered no matter what and that now to be pious family should be stripped from everything, the devoted servant of God should stop. Obviously not for own sake, but because it's a disgrace to servant's family and to Lord that this servant made a pledge of loyalty. |
Samira Kernher
2876
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 20:57:29 -
[95] - Quote
We cast out our sinners, and have paid for their transgressions. We don't welcome them back to the table or give them the heirdom.
And we absolutely should remember it, so that we don't fall prey to repeating the same mistakes. |
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
672
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 21:14:05 -
[96] - Quote
Let this be the official Nauplius position GÇö
- Capsuleers do indeed have souls, one soul which follows the body from clone to clone until final death.
- Cloning is immoral transhumanism and ought to be abolished.
- Nonetheless, to abandon cloning by all of the Chosen People of God at this time would be a sort of "unilateral disarmament" that would be guilty of the sin of "tempting God"; therefore, the abolishing of cloning will have to await the Reclaiming of all the Cluster.
|
Ayallah
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
600
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 21:18:07 -
[97] - Quote
The welcome back to the light was for the Khanid, not for Khanid. I think you are making Garkeh larger than he was by demonizing him so. All of the economic and military might of the kingdom, all its people, and all its systems and worlds now belong again to the Throne.
One degenerate King who died anyway is a small price to pay.
"What you give to this Empire, I shall give back unto you." - Empress Jamyl I
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
17870
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 22:17:45 -
[98] - Quote
As if it would rescue them from inevitable fall.
Its abvious these people will try to break up all rules in empire.
Katiz is only sticking her bum out to harsh treatment from them.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
|
Loai Qerl
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
57
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 01:39:12 -
[99] - Quote
I'm.....troubled, a little.
King Khanid II, rest he in light and peace, no matter what else he did, brought us back to the fold and gave us the chance to rejoice fully again in our trillions of sisters and brothers in faith. I don't think anyone who hasn't been a lifelong Kingdom citizen to understand the little ways that separation affects someone. There are a lot of us--Khanid, I mean. Who here can claim to have helped so many back to the door that opens once?
He was complicated. I won't argue it. I hope you won't argue it with me. But he was ours, he was truly ours, and when he died I hope he was able to imagine half the gratitude we owed him for making Ours mean Khanid and Amarr both. I was born into a time of fear, when no one could be sure if that would be true again. Now we are sure. I will NEVER stop being grateful, both to His Former Majesty and to the Empress, long may she reign in splendor.
God bless us ALL with the ability to turn the mistakes we make into a benediction, as he did.
...please stop being horrible about him. |
Garion Avarr
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
10
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 03:22:23 -
[100] - Quote
This news gladdens my heart.
Not for my ow sake -- these words do not change the facts of if I have a soul or not, of course. If one believes, as I do, that the Theology Council has after much study become certain of the truth of this matter, then it was always true, even when they were not certain. If you are of a more cynical outlook and view this as pandering, then what they say still does not make it either true or false.
No. I have a soul, I have always had a soul, and that is simply being acknowledged. It does not, in the end, change anything for me personally.
But what it does do is remove a great burden, a great sense of awkwardness, from our relatives who may have wondered if we were still who we were when they knew us as children. A question of if the person they has known had already died, and if we were simply a hollow copy of that being, bereft of the soul that had made us who we were. But now the Theology Council has spoken, and a great doubt can be lifted from the minds of our relatives.
That is the great gift in this pronouncement. |
Vlad Cetes
No.Mercy
Triumvirate.
87
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 05:58:57 -
[101] - Quote
There is one problem with this pronouncement.
It assumes that a soul exists.
Until the existence of a soul can be proven, it must be treated as false, logically. Therefore this announcement has no actual bearing and the debate in this thread has been pointless. |
Ayallah
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
601
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 07:19:59 -
[102] - Quote
Loai Qerl wrote:King Khanid II, rest he in light and peace, no matter what else he did, brought us back to the fold and gave us the chance to rejoice fully again in our trillions of sisters and brothers in faith. That was actually Empress Jamyl.
"What you give to this Empire, I shall give back unto you." - Empress Jamyl I
|
Gwen Ikiryo
Alexylva Paradox
655
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 07:26:29 -
[103] - Quote
I suppose the main reason it strikes me as a placating move and not something driven by real theological concern is just how easily the idea cracks under scrutiny compared to most of the teachings of the Amarrian faith, which are largely internally consistent.
If the ruling was that each newly-cloned body received it's own soul, that would be one thing. But with the current reasoning, what happens if someone clones from the same scan twice? Is the soul split in twain? Is the second clone soulless, or else impure by other means?
Again, I genuinely mean no disrespect to the people who have derived happiness from this ruling, but it seems like a bit of a hack job. |
Skyweir Kinnison
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
290
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 10:40:35 -
[104] - Quote
Vlad Cetes wrote:There is one problem with this pronouncement.
It assumes that a soul exists.
Until the existence of a soul can be proven, it must be treated as false, logically. Therefore this announcement has no actual bearing and the debate in this thread has been pointless.
Whilst no believer myself, this assertion is false of itself. As the aphorism states, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. It seems to me to be perfectly acceptable for theologians to explore the idea of a soul and how it may interact with the physical being. Theology is an ancient study, just as philosophy - and both have a place in the human experience.
Where one takes issue, is when the essentially unprovable is used to justify interference in other people's lives. Or even to otherwise restrict the individual's passion to enjoy the life they have in favour of some post-life 'reward'.
There is a Gallente philosopher from ancient times who wrote: GÇ£For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life.GÇ¥
The sentiment, to me at least, seems to have some resonance with the spiritual message of the Council's decision (whist reserving my cynicism about the politics) that enables all the Faithful to enjoy the life they have without worrying about how their choices may affect some post-mortem fate that may or may not exist.
Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
|
Kolodi Ramal
Sanxing
204
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 10:59:44 -
[105] - Quote
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:I suppose the main reason it strikes me as a placating move and not something driven by real theological concern is just how easily the idea cracks under scrutiny compared to most of the teachings of the Amarrian faith, which are normally largely internally consistent.
If the ruling was that each newly-cloned body received it's own soul, that would be one thing. But with the current reasoning, where it just transfers over, what happens if someone clones from the same scan twice? Is the soul split in twain? Is the second clone soulless, or else impure by other means?
Again, I genuinely mean no disrespect to the people who have derived happiness from this ruling, but I have to confess it seems like a bit of a hack job.
Maybe they see it the same way some Matari clans see it:
The spirit (or soul) travels with the infomorph. If there are two, there are two - equal duplicates. As soon as at least one of them is active/conscious, their paths diverge and they are not two of the same anymore. Neither of them is really a copy, spiritually; neither of them is lesser; they aren't invalidated by there being two of them. Complications in how other people see them and deal with them, and even complications in how they feel about themselves, aren't signs of their actual natures.
(This is my understanding of how my own clan's beliefs were explained to me, anyway. But even if I got it a little wrong somehow, there are a lot of clans and this probably hits the nail on the head for somebody somewhere.) |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2881
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 12:12:09 -
[106] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Diana Kim wrote:It is highly unwise to speak about immortality for those who exist for way less time so far than an average baseliner. Your definition of death isn't one everyone shares, though, Ms. Kim. (I agree, though-- we're pseudo-immortal at best, even while we're active.)
Death is death. But even if we disregard personal deaths of each capsuleer, the idea that I have expressed was that the whole Capsuleer program's age is only 12 years.
It doesn't matter what you think as a death or not, what idea your share or not, the fact remains - baseliner average life expectancy greatly exceeds 12 years... in all known parts of space.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2463
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 12:38:40 -
[107] - Quote
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:I suppose the main reason it strikes me as a placating move and not something driven by real theological concern is just how easily the idea cracks under scrutiny compared to most of the teachings of the Amarrian faith, which are normally largely internally consistent.
If the ruling was that each newly-cloned body received it's own soul, that would be one thing. But with the current reasoning, where it just transfers over, what happens if someone clones from the same scan twice? Is the soul split in twain? Is the second clone soulless, or else impure by other means?
Again, I genuinely mean no disrespect to the people who have derived happiness from this ruling, but I have to confess it seems like a bit of a hack job.
Is there some reason they'd need to explain the physics of the spiritual realm, Ms. Ikiryo? Is there any reason to think that spirits have to move physically in our world at all?
We are talking about a kind of immortal spark bound to a particular person. No surgeon's found such a thing in a person, yet, so maybe there's no reason to assume it has to comply with our rules. For all we know there's no meaningful distance between any two points in our world in the realm that such a thing inhabits.
On a more basic level, what this really does is essentially just this:
The Theology Council now agrees that we're people. |
Gwen Ikiryo
Alexylva Paradox
658
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 12:56:19 -
[108] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Is there some reason they'd need to explain the physics of the spiritual realm, Ms. Ikiryo? Is there any reason to think that spirits have to move physically in our world at all?
We are talking about a kind of immortal spark bound to a particular person. No surgeon's found such a thing in a person, yet, so maybe there's no reason to assume it has to comply with our rules. For all we know there's no meaningful distance between any two points in our world in the realm that such a thing inhabits.
On a more basic level, what this really does is essentially just this:
The Theology Council now agrees that we're people.
I feel like you've sort of missed what I was saying.
I don't have a problem with how the soul might move from one place to another - To the best of my understanding, the Amarrian faith does have a sort of concept of a higher realm, so there's nothing saying it couldn't zip from one side of the cluster to another, as the article seems to suggest. That's internally consistent.
What they don't even seem to be trying to justify with this explanation, however, is the necessary duplication of the soul that would occur when making two people from one scan. Which does happen, CONCORD regulations or not. |
Karmilla Strife
Societas Imperialis Tenura
463
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 13:27:05 -
[109] - Quote
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:
What they don't even seem to be trying to justify with this explanation, however, is the necessary duplication of the soul that would occur when making two people from one scan. Which does happen, CONCORD regulations or not.
The Theology Council is no doubt aware that this could happen in spite of CONCORD regulations and has affirmed the Yulai convention's ban. The announcement does not explain why, but perhaps the full text of the exhortation goes into more detail in addressing just such a concern. The Theology Council is not beholden to CONCORD so if I had to hazard a guess, one of the reasons for affirming the ban could be that "duplication" of a soul as you illustrated could be considered an abomination. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
2464
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 13:47:49 -
[110] - Quote
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:Is there some reason they'd need to explain the physics of the spiritual realm, Ms. Ikiryo? Is there any reason to think that spirits have to move physically in our world at all?
We are talking about a kind of immortal spark bound to a particular person. No surgeon's found such a thing in a person, yet, so maybe there's no reason to assume it has to comply with our rules. For all we know there's no meaningful distance between any two points in our world in the realm that such a thing inhabits.
On a more basic level, what this really does is essentially just this:
The Theology Council now agrees that we're people. I feel like you've sort of missed what I was saying. I don't have a problem with how the soul might move from one place to another - To the best of my understanding, the Amarrian faith does have a sort of concept of a higher realm, so there's nothing saying it couldn't zip from one side of the cluster to another, as the article seems to suggest. That's internally consistent. What they don't even seem to be trying to justify with this explanation, however, is the necessary duplication of the soul that would occur when making two people from one scan. Which does happen, CONCORD regulations or not.
Hm. That's true, I did. I'm sorry.
As Mrs. Pryce was saying, the Exhortation does affirm the ban on such a thing. Considering the history of violent incidents flowing out of people duplicating themselves, the idea that the soul is damaged or divided somehow in such an event seems like a reasonable concern. |
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
1663
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 13:49:59 -
[111] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Gwen Ikiryo wrote:I suppose the main reason it strikes me as a placating move and not something driven by real theological concern is just how easily the idea cracks under scrutiny compared to most of the teachings of the Amarrian faith, which are normally largely internally consistent.
If the ruling was that each newly-cloned body received it's own soul, that would be one thing. But with the current reasoning, where it just transfers over, what happens if someone clones from the same scan twice? Is the soul split in twain? Is the second clone soulless, or else impure by other means?
Again, I genuinely mean no disrespect to the people who have derived happiness from this ruling, but I have to confess it seems like a bit of a hack job. Is there some reason they'd need to explain the physics of the spiritual realm, Ms. Ikiryo? Is there any reason to think that spirits have to move physically in our world at all? We are talking about a kind of immortal spark bound to a particular person. No surgeon's found such a thing in a person, yet, so maybe there's no reason to assume it has to comply with our rules. For all we know there's no meaningful distance between any two points in our world in the realm that such a thing inhabits. On a more basic level, what this really does is essentially just this: The Theology Council now agrees that we're people.
We are talking about the Amarr's idea of the soul though, not the Ohnesh and the Andesh or etc. For someone who is familiar with the Amarr religion, this does seem like a hack job, just suddenly coming out to declare that clones have souls so close to the availability of the Alpha clones (awfully convenient timing). Probably would seem far less like it if they also define what a soul is, what makes a soul a soul, and why clones have souls based on this.
I have no idea what other cultures have to say about this. Well, except the Clan perspective. We are so apart from the Sebiestor collective that we have no idea what the current general consensus in our bloodline is. Something about since the Andesh is not of material realm and the Ohnesh being everchanging, therefore when a clone dies and is recreated, the Ohnesh changes but the Andesh is still the same, therefore same person different Ohnesh or something like that.
Not really clear about it. Not sure if the rest of the Tribe agrees either, or if the Tribe rather not discuss the matter.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Karmilla Strife
Societas Imperialis Tenura
463
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 14:05:44 -
[112] - Quote
People keep saying this is a sudden thing. We've been having this debate as a culture for many years. The resolution may have been sped up by the Empress' request, but it's been in the making since at least the time of my grandparents. |
Matar Ronin
2149
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 16:06:12 -
[113] - Quote
The movers and shakers that operate the slavery cult demonstrate once again that they are all about politics.
Capsuleers are the new power class in New Eden and the slavery cult had to finally publicly bow to their growing strength.
The fact that the previous occupant of the throne of skulls was well known to be a capsuleer clone to everyone not gullible enough to buy into the "second life" public relations spin administered to her resurfacing in time to thwart parts of the Elder Fleet missions.
Add to this indisputable fact, all the house champions whose combat determined who rose to power were capsuleers, and you can see the political fix the Theology Council found themselves in.
Capsuleer clones are running the amarr empire, just no longer from the shadows. No more arguments about them being the ghoulish undead absent human souls that cannot be rewarded for their good service to the cult.
The next step will be when Catpiss Trash-Murky declares herself divine and the final immortal leader of the slavery cult with a public conversion to a capsuleer clone. No new divine revelation, no inspiring texts from God, just good old fashion backroom political maneuvering.
A clever clone capsuleer coup pulled off in plain sight. Now let's monitor events closely to see exactly what they do with it.
GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ
" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2521
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 16:10:52 -
[114] - Quote
Karmilla Strife wrote:People keep saying this is a sudden thing.
Yes. Because this is a sudden thing. A decision on a centuries-old debate just happens to come less than two weeks after the new Empress calls for an expansion of the cloning program. That's sudden. There's a reason the debate's lasted so long, after all: it can't really be won either way. One of two chains progresses:
I. Clones are soulless monsters. Those soulless monsters can still have kids. Do the kids have souls? What about the children of a clone and a 'real' human? Do they have half a soul? Has a slowly-widening spiderweb of soulless or only partially-souled people been introduced into the cluster?
II. Clones have souls. Only its possible to make dozens of simultaneous clones. If that happens, which one gets the soul? Do they all get the soul? Do they suddenly get multiple souls? Can you mass produce human souls??? Do they get part of the soul? Oh god, we're back to the potential for partially-souled people breeding.
Sure, CONCORD has regulations that say 'you're not allowed to make multiple clones', but CONCORD regulations aren't exactly a theological authority. CONCORD can't tell me I'm out of harmony. So hiding behind the dodge of 'The Theology Council certainly upholds the ban' doesn't actually address the issue. It's not 'should you do this?' but 'What happens if you do?' Let's look at some potentials:
A. Everybody gets the same soul.
Let's start off by saying some demented cloning technician has decided to have a little fun, and make 4 clones of you the next time you get podded. You don't know about this, but it happens, and you wake up in four different places, unaware of the tech's perfidity.
Ok, so there's four of you running around, each doing different things, not telepathically linked or any of that nonsense. Four 'yous'. And they're all sharing the same soul. Like a karmic bank account. Three of them are good, virtuous people. Examplars, paragons, even. The fourth is a raving maniac who goes around sexually defiling the flaming corpses of puppies with other flaming corpses of puppies, or something. Really vile crap.
Clones 1-3 don't even know about this. They don't even know about one another! They're living quiet lives in the Empire while Number Four is off being depraved in the bowels of the Federation. He's taken on a different name. He's had cosmetic surgery to get a different face. But three good, devout people are toast.
That seems a little excessive.
B. Everyone gets their own soul.
Does anyone really think the Theology Council is going to say human cloning technology has the ability to mass-produce souls? Completely setting aside the hubris of it, that raises all sorts of ugly questions like 'When do these souls get made? Do they come into existence when the infomorph is transferred, and the brain is flash-grown? If so, does data corruption mean only a partial soul, or a damaged soul? If not, do my jump clones and waiting medical clone have unaware souls that I'm displacing when I jump in?'
G'head. Open that can of worms. I dare you.
C. The soul gets split up
Does the soul 'heal'? If so, this is really just A. with a bit of a delay. If not, we're back to the conundrum of partially-souled people and what happens when they breed.
D. Only one of you gets the soul.
Only two questions need to be asked to demonstrate why nobody in their right mind would try to push this one: 1. How do you determine who gets the soul? 2. Haven't we then just established that everyone else is a soulless monster, and what if they clone further and/or have kids?
No matter how you slice it, simply saying that 'CONCORD says not to do that, and we agree' doesn't actually address the matter at all. Doesn't even begin to address it. And it's an issue that immediately follows from the idea that clones have souls: 'If a man-made copy of a human being has a soul, what happens when you make more than one at a time?'
There's a reason the debate's been going on probably since the first slow-growth genetic cloning with stem cells became possible. So, yes, to have it decided at such a convenient point in time is definitely 'sudden'. And incredibly unlikely. I'd be less surprised at the idea of an Amarr bishop drinking industrial cleanser. |
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Noticed.
2001
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 16:37:49 -
[115] - Quote
The real amusing thing is that now that capsuleers are confirmed to have souls, the Amarr have a religious obligation to Reclaim those capsuleers.
They could have just dismissed us all as soulless abominations, but no. |
Karmilla Strife
Societas Imperialis Tenura
471
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 16:48:26 -
[116] - Quote
While those are very interesting questions and no doubt have been part of the debate, an advisory resolution such as this would likely have been similarly drafted after a relatively short period of debate had any Emperor/Empress requested it. When someone of that position asks a subordinate for an answer, it's unwise to refuse on the basis of "it's complicated."
The Supreme Sobor reached a consensus, but there are still people on the other side of the debate and I'm sure they still have their objections. Furthermore, this was also an advisory recommendation, it has not been ratified by the Empress and Privy Council. It's a bit soon for all the Amarr-haters out there to scream about some sort of conspiracy especially when her Holiness already publicly announced her intentions to expand capsuleer education within the Empire.
Not that I'm unhappy that so many non-believers are suddenly interested in the nature of the soul. That part has been quite a pleasant surprise from the IGS. |
Karmilla Strife
Societas Imperialis Tenura
471
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 16:49:41 -
[117] - Quote
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:The real amusing thing is that now that capsuleers are confirmed to have souls, the Amarr have a religious obligation to Reclaim those capsuleers.
They could have just dismissed us all as soulless abominations, but no.
I'll make sure to slip a few brochures under your captains quarters door. |
Lunarisse Aspenstar
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
984
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 16:53:15 -
[118] - Quote
Karmilla Strife wrote:Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:The real amusing thing is that now that capsuleers are confirmed to have souls, the Amarr have a religious obligation to Reclaim those capsuleers.
They could have just dismissed us all as soulless abominations, but no. I'll make sure to slip a few brochures under your captains quarters door.
We'll need to draft up a short Explanatory Pamplet. Good idea Karmilla!
|
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Noticed.
2002
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 16:58:57 -
[119] - Quote
Hey, I quite enjoy my soul being irredeemable in the eyes of God thank you very much! |
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
1663
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 17:01:12 -
[120] - Quote
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:Hey, I quite enjoy my soul being irredeemable in the eyes of God thank you very much!
I just stick to my ancestral beliefs but with the idea that there is one Andesh but multiple branching states of Ohnesh. Then not talk about it afterwards. Because trying to figure this out hurts my head. I'm not a metaphysicist, dammit!
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |