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matty01
Killson Corp
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.03.27 02:23:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Yagsi Sadit
Tommy, using local doesn't help much when there are always negs in local. Using the scanner doesn't help much when negs are either docked or cloaked while probing.
easy, scan for probes...see a probe, get safe/docked up
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Abyss Jack
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.27 11:14:00 -
[32]
just log off 
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Heikki
Gallente
Wreckless Abandon
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.03.27 11:48:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Kerfira
THIS is the reason why trying to force high-sec mission runners to low-sec will fail
You might have gotten wrong impression; I think CCP's aim is to make lowsec a viable _option_ to at least some of the folks.
If done properly, fellows like OP are likely to benefit it: willing to figure out how to survive well enough to profit more than their Empire colleagues. Losing the ship now and then would be an acceptable risk.
IMHO it sounds like a noble idea enough; people who don't want to hunt others still have to interact with the rest of Eve.
Though reaching the proper risk-reward ratio might take quite a lot of time, and go through multiple of 'pirates whine' and 'carebears turn to whine' thread cycles..
-Lasse
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Tommy Vercetti
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.27 13:37:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Yagsi Sadit
Using the scanner doesn't help much when negs are either docked or cloaked while probing
1. Open Scanner
2. Uncheck "Overview Settings"
3. Hit Scan
4. See probes
5. Run
There is no excuse Yagsi.
Check out one of the great wolf videos made by Drake (?). He pirates in a wolf, taking on a fair few geddons down in Stain. Using the scanner to check for friends that are near. Others use the scanner constantly, and they don't complain. Some fly 1 bil + ships in low sec and complain when it gets blown up, and the scanner isn't touched. I just have no sympathy for them.
Originally by: Pestillence
It's a game where we fly around in eggs with tubes up our arses. If I want reality I'll go outside.
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Yagsi Sadit
Iugum Noctis
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Posted - 2007.03.27 20:24:00 -
[35]
Tommy, you have a marginal point about the scanner and probes. It would be a better point if CCP actually allowed us to select probes on the overview (so it didn't take a while just to find the dang things with all the wrecks, etc.).
I do know the tricks to avoiding getting mission-ganked, I never got probed once (at least in a BS, when I actually cared). I'm just trying to point out that mission runners are at a much higher risk than the pirates.
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Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.03.28 13:26:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Ishana
-scanning for probes and ships within 5au every few minutes would help allot.
A good recon scanner can find you in two minutes...so you have to scan for probes every 60 seconds to be sure. Originally by: Ishana
-moving away from the warp in beacon.
not always possible to move away from warp in beacon due to instant scrambling/webbing (Enemies Abound anyone?) Originally by: Ishana
-dropping a can at the beacon (the can is for recon cruisers that warp in, so they uncloak)
Yes, no issue with this one Originally by: Ishana
-keeping an eye out for pirate types in local chat.
Again, how often do you check?
Originally by: Ishana
if you do all that 99% of the time the pirates actually try to catch you, you will get away
But it wil take you about 12 hours to complete the mission, and while you are doing all that faffing around, the NPCs will probably kill you.
Originally by: Ishana
Carebears are just to lazy really...
Nowhere NEAR as lazy as mission runner gankers.
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I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment. |
Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.03.28 13:28:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Heikki
IMHO it sounds like a noble idea enough; people who don't want to hunt others still have to interact with the rest of Eve.
Translation: "The only role of a carebear in EVE will be as an unwilling victim"
Great game guys...
Do the math...Carebear subscriptions keep CCP afloat far more than the PVPers.
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I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment. |
Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.03.28 13:34:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Tommy Vercetti
1. Open Scanner
2. Uncheck "Overview Settings"
3. Hit Scan
4. See probes
5. Run
There is no excuse Yagsi.
Oh but there is. You are only thinking of the pirtaing alt, mission running for profit. Mission runners have OTHER goals...do you know how much standing you lose for a failed mission?
Financially, missions in low sec are only very slightly more rewarding than those in empire. The risks associated with it don't just include for lost ships...they include for the regular likelihood that you will NOT be able to complete the mission due to pirate interference. CCP have "addressed" *koff* this by making the L4 empire version LESS profitable (because everyone knows all L4 mission runner in empire have at least 100 billion in their wallets  )
They missed the point. Even if you made every mission in empire give 0.0 reward, you won't encourage empire mission runners to go to low sec. And for every one who does, I would say ten would decide to quit, or go back to mining, or switch to trading...
It's just NOT going to work.
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I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment. |
Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.03.28 13:39:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Tommy Vercetti
What measures are you taking that pirates aren't? Mission runners couldn't find their own arsecheeks with a scanner, a scanner is a pirates best friend. Assesing local for unfriendlies is something mission runners are even worse at.
As for your risk equation, I'm assuming your talking about one mission ship and say 3-4 pirate gang? Well yes 3-4 ships have a good chance to take down a bigger, badder target no matter what they are doing. If you call in reinforcements to help you when your being attacked in a mission, I'm sure you will be victorious. Hold up though, that might require some thought and communication, 2 things I definitely don't use when running missions 
Some differences between pirates and mission runners;
1. The pirates don't have to stay in one place for 45 minutes. The mission runners do.
2. The pirates have NOTHING else to do while using the scanner. The mission runners have to fight NPCs.
3. The pirates don't have to switch from a PVE to PVP to defend themselves. The mission runners are set up for PVE, not PVP. PVP setups in mission don't work.
4. In general, I would say most mission runners know how pirtaes work better than most pirates know how mission runners work. Your post kind of proves it.
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I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment. |
Shaemell Buttleson
Darwin With Attitude
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.28 22:23:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Grey Area
Originally by: Heikki
IMHO it sounds like a noble idea enough; people who don't want to hunt others still have to interact with the rest of Eve.
Translation: "The only role of a carebear in EVE will be as an unwilling victim"
Great game guys...
Do the math...Carebear subscriptions keep CCP afloat far more than the PVPers.
I'm not sure that is true unless you use the supposition that every PVP'er also runs missions now and again.
The problem as I see it is that the dedicated mission runner wants the best of both worlds. He wants to be able to interact with other players or his ISK means nothing more than a highscore or at best his EvE would be a more sophisticated version of ELITE.
But since most PPL who subscribe don't want the game experiance to be like this and want to interact, getting ganked by PPL in low-sec will happen but the dedicated mission runners don't want this to happen even though they choose to play with a large playerbase.
All in all it's a no-win situation and CCP will never be able to keep everyone happy.
Your signature was inappropriate, email [email protected] to find out why (don't forget to include a link to it) -Sahwoolo |
Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.03.29 05:36:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson
All in all it's a no-win situation and CCP will never be able to keep everyone happy.
It's so simple to fix.
1. Stop player warp scramblers from working in deadspace. That stops pirates holding down a ship that is porbably already scrambled by the NPCs. It also gives the mission runner a "tactic" to minimise risk - kill NPC scramblers first.
2. Simplify missions - focus less on swarms of underpowered targets, and give us more missions with single powerful targets. Less "chaff" for the mission runner to cope with when the pirate warps in.
All a mission runner really wants is a fair chance to run away...losing our mission is penalty enough for being scanned out. Yes it means it's harder for gankers to get kills...but all they have to do is send a ships to the mission, and leave some at the gate. A little forethought will still get them a result.
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I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment. |
Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.03.29 06:30:00 -
[42]
This post reminds me of a conversation I got with my kid the other day. He didn't wanted to eat his vegetables. I don't eat vegetables myself but I told him:
"Hey I ate my vegetables the other day, it wasn't that bad! in fact is was very good and I'm happy vegetables exist!" |
murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2007.03.29 11:41:00 -
[43]
Some of the carebear posts in this thread make me sick. It's just pathetic. There is *no* excuse if you get caught and ganked in a mission. None. It's so SO easy to avoid being caught it's just laughable. Every excuse that anyone has come up with so far is completely invalid.
I've been trying to solo mission runners now for a week. It's extremely difficult to get within range to use the correct probes before the mission runners are done w/ their missions. 99% of the time the mission runners are WAY off the warp in, assuming I *can* get them probed out. I have maxed out probing skills/very pimped out Cov Ops, and my probe cycle time is down to about 145 seconds. Still almost 30 seconds over a two minute cycle time. And 145 seconds is FAST compared to the usual probe time (2-3 times that at least).
So assuming I find their gate, and assuming it isn't a nasty trap (already lost my Cov Ops AND pod to a very sneaky trap, kudos to the guy who did it), and I get inside, rarely is the target in scram range. 90% of the time they get away at this point, and I have some VERY expensive/specialized ships designed specifically to tackle mission runners. I've built ships with the best the game has to offer, money no object, just to better my capabilities and to see just how far I can optimise my setup for this task. It's still very *very* difficult.
Generally most of the targets that I even get the chance to probe out don't result in much ISK/hour, but it's the thrill of the hunt for me, not the ISK so much. But here's the thing: with a little cooperation from some corp mates the corps I've been hunting have pretty much shut me down 100% in my solo piracy because they watch out, protect each other, and even if I *do* get my hooks into one of them, they blob the hell out of me and I have to bail or lose **MY* billion ISK ship. Go figure, a pirate flies a high dollar ship just like the mission whiners do.
I spend all my ISK to better myself and my game. I spend hours without results due to the horrible probe nerfs, much less the intelligence of my targets. Killing mission runners is the 'big game hunting' of Eve. Especially when they're smart, capable, and most of all NOT LAZY.
Heck, I've lost two ships now, and one pod to MISSION RUNNERS, and that's the first pod I've lost in over a year, and that includes quite a bit of war time in 0.0. Am I mad? No. I'm amused that these guys actually have the balls to fight back, and on top of that are doing a decent job at it.
I have zero respect or sympathy for the mission whiners who cry and complain that they might possibly lose their ship if they go into low sec. If these idiots were even half way competent and spent the smallest amount of effort into cooperating with someone, they'd never have a problem.
If you get caught, it's because you were too dumb/lazy/careless and someone with more smarts/determination/willpower defeated you. End of story.
Because I said so...
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murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2007.03.29 12:02:00 -
[44]
And to the OP: I was surprised at the refreshingly different attitude you took toward being ganked, until I read a little more and realized that you're actually a 'pirate' flying your mission runner. Go figure, it takes a pirate to have a good attitude about the idea of losing a ship.
Because I said so...
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Leandro Salazar
Bravehearts
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.29 12:15:00 -
[45]
Oh my another pirate who has no clue about what hes doing and thus whines about probing being too hard.
Are you related to Bellum Eternus perchance? You sure play the same harp. And your attitude makes ME sick.
When you have a great network of overlapping probe spots, you have a pretty decent chance of detecting mission runners with recon probes. And thats a 22 sec cycle time, not 145. The two times I have been found have both been by recon probes. And I have found enough fellow runners in my Cheetah using the same tactic. Using exploration probes for finding mission runners is just silly.
Sure it takes some preparation and you might need to run some missions yourself to get deepspace spots, but taking that effort can be well worth it.
If you just want to drop a single probe and expect success, well, it is good that you don't get rewarded for your lazyness 
I guess the only systems where it is REALLY hard to find people in deadspace are those with diameters of 100+ AU.
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There is no 'n' in turret
There is no 'r' in faction
There is no 'a' in Kestrel
There is no 'e' in Caldari
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Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.03.29 14:05:00 -
[46]
Originally by: murder one
So assuming I find their gate, and assuming it isn't a nasty trap (already lost my Cov Ops AND pod to a very sneaky trap, kudos to the guy who did it)...Heck, I've lost two ships now, and one pod to MISSION RUNNERS, and that's the first pod I've lost in over a year, and that includes quite a bit of war time in 0.0.
Someone who sits at the incoming gate with a rack full of smartbombs and a jetcan to decloak you ISN'T a mission runner. They're a pirate hunter. And stop whining about how hard it is to find them. It's not. I scan my local system (for exploration sites) and REGULARLY turn up mission runner signals.
I'm sure you are devastated that you don't get to kill every single one that you find...but you DO drive them off their mission, which means it's a mission they have to fail, with the associated revenue loss, and more importantly, standing loss with their agent. Not all victories require a kill.
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I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment. |
murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2007.03.29 22:13:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Oh my another pirate who has no clue about what hes doing and thus whines about probing being too hard.
Are you related to Bellum Eternus perchance? You sure play the same harp. And your attitude makes ME sick.
When you have a great network of overlapping probe spots, you have a pretty decent chance of detecting mission runners with recon probes. And thats a 22 sec cycle time, not 145. The two times I have been found have both been by recon probes. And I have found enough fellow runners in my Cheetah using the same tactic. Using exploration probes for finding mission runners is just silly.
Sure it takes some preparation and you might need to run some missions yourself to get deepspace spots, but taking that effort can be well worth it.
If you just want to drop a single probe and expect success, well, it is good that you don't get rewarded for your lazyness
I guess the only systems where it is REALLY hard to find people in deadspace are those with diameters of 100+ AU.
I never ever use recon probes. They're worthless. My scan cycle time for recon probes is 29.9 something seconds, and my cycle time with regular probes is 145 sec., which is nearly the maximum possible for perfect skills. In another 20 days or so I'll have the cycle time skill to 5, and I will literally have perfect skills.
Even with using the required racial probes, it still takes me landing within about 250m km of the mission runner to get a result, and that's only if they're in a BS or maybe a BC, so that the rig res/sensor strength ratio is large enough for me to find them.
I know exactly what I'm doing. I've spent quite a bit of time studying it. A chance of 1-3% or so per probe cycle is not what I deem as effective/acceptable. Even with racial probes I rarely find the target on the first or second cycle, but I do find them faster using those than I do the purpose built recon probes. Meaning that I never find the target I'm looking for with the recon probes.
Unless I'm hunting someone outside of deadspace, I never ever equip recon lauchers. Dropping multiple probes simply isn't an option when your target is at the very edge of the system's planar envelope, and you simply have no way to get behind/above/below the target. But you know this.
Because I said so...
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Leandro Salazar
Bravehearts
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.29 22:39:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 29/03/2007 22:35:26
Originally by: murder one
I never ever use recon probes. They're worthless.
[...]
Unless I'm hunting someone outside of deadspace, I never ever equip recon lauchers. Dropping multiple probes simply isn't an option when your target is at the very edge of the system's planar envelope, and you simply have no way to get behind/above/below the target. But you know this.
These things are where you err. But please keep on believing them, it means you will never find me at least
---------
There is no 'n' in turret
There is no 'r' in faction
There is no 'a' in Kestrel
There is no 'e' in Caldari
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