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[IKAME] Directive Alpha Gamma 12 and the Society

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Matar Ronin 2232	Posted - 2016.10.18 16:34:15 - [31] - Quote Claudia Osyn wrote: Matar Ronin wrote: Makoto Priano wrote: Sir, you speak a lot about angry silly rants. I worry that you might be projecting. Well yes I can admit that possibility, will you? Priano's public relation skills are flawless, she would never behave in such a manner. Besides, what would she rant about? Yawn, forum groupies, why they find it necessary to speak for their heroes always entertains, but only mildly. That high school need to identify with the cool kids syndrome runs strong with some many years after they should have matured beyond it. Imagine a human being with "flawless public relation skills", lol. The sad for the forum groupie part is that Pilot Priano herself would never claim such a thing. GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ " We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Deitra Vess Non-Hostile Target 1444	Posted - 2016.10.18 16:41:58 - [32] - Quote Matar Ronin wrote: Claudia Osyn wrote: Matar Ronin wrote: Makoto Priano wrote: Sir, you speak a lot about angry silly rants. I worry that you might be projecting. Well yes I can admit that possibility, will you? Priano's public relation skills are flawless, she would never behave in such a manner. Besides, what would she rant about? Yawn, forum groupies, why they find it necessary to speak for their heroes always entertains, but only mildly. That high school need to identify with the cool kids syndrome runs strong with some many years after they should have matured beyond it. Imagine a human being with "flawless public relation skills", lol. The sad for the forum groupie part is that Pilot Priano herself would never claim such a thing. She's far from flawless. She is however less flawed than many others. Also I don't see her stepping in on many things aside from ARC matters. She doesn't really have that many things to rant about unless it's about her own endeavors which would be odd to say the least.
Jennifer Starfall Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 325	Posted - 2016.10.18 21:45:42 - [33] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Jennifer Starfall wrote: And the Sisters avoided exposing their new cloning technology to the Society. For all we know, the Sisters didn't give the Society this technology becauseGÇöas you point outGÇöthe Society has the Jove biotech library, which likely includes cloning technology. To think that the clone and pod technology that the Jove shared with us was their most advanced examples would be the height of hubris. It's very likely this entire request is akin to requesting that the Caldari State be forced to share butane fire technology with the Amarr Empire. My worry isn't that the technology is superior to what the Society already has access to via former Jovian resources. My concern is that there is something inherently risky or dangerous about it that the Sisters are trying to hide. Jennifer Starfall Fifth Seyllin Conference
Jaret Victorian Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium 561	Posted - 2016.10.18 22:24:07 - [34] - Quote Arrendis, I don't see why your laziness to go over to the CONCORD's page and look at the text of Conventions should count as an argument "I can't read". You're what, a pod pilot and an officer, it shouldn't be that hard. Next time you are going to ask us how do you open doors with consoles? Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2539	Posted - 2016.10.19 01:52:13 - [35] - Quote Well, Jaret, since you're so amazingly superior, why don't you quote the full text of Directive Alpha Gamma 12?
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 1679	Posted - 2016.10.19 02:23:19 - [36] - Quote Jaret Victorian wrote: Arrendis, I don't see why your laziness to go over to the CONCORD's page and look at the text of Conventions should count as an argument "I can't read". You're what, a pod pilot and an officer, it shouldn't be that hard. Next time you are going to ask us how do you open doors with consoles? She wouldn't have made that argument if she can actually find the documents to read. A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Jaret Victorian Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium 561	Posted - 2016.10.19 04:19:13 - [37] - Quote Here, I got this one for you. Directive Alpha Gamma 12 wrote: I am not your secretary. Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
Alizabeth Vea Hounds of Sarum 932	Posted - 2016.10.19 04:43:21 - [38] - Quote If you reproduce the full text of the Directive, I'll give you a billion ISK. However, I imagine you'll get the same answer as I did when I asked. Something, something, go away. Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum. "Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 1681	Posted - 2016.10.19 05:26:14 - [39] - Quote Jaret Victorian wrote: Here, I got this one for you. Directive Alpha Gamma 12 wrote: I am not your secretary. What kind of argument is this anyway - sorry officer, I didn't know you get arrested for killing people since I didn't read laws. Again, you can't read the laws if you aren't provided the law book to read. Is it that hard to figure out this concept? A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2886	Posted - 2016.10.19 05:37:47 - [40] - Quote Claudia Osyn wrote: Matar Ronin wrote: Makoto Priano wrote: Sir, you speak a lot about angry silly rants. I worry that you might be projecting. Well yes I can admit that possibility, will you? Priano's public relation skills are flawless, she would never behave in such a manner. Besides, what would she rant about? That's quite ignorant point of view. Priano has already displayed herself to whole IGS as a liar, as dishonorable person and as a coward, who couldn't answer for her words. Here is the reference to refresh the memory: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=381560 Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Jaret Victorian Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium 561	Posted - 2016.10.19 06:09:14 - [41] - Quote Frankly, I'm not responsible for your inability to use galnets. Next thing you'll tell me is that you don't know how many days a year on Athra is or that Scope News come out once a couple of weeks instead of each hour. Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 1681	Posted - 2016.10.19 06:38:57 - [42] - Quote Jaret Victorian wrote: Frankly, I'm not responsible for your inability to use galnets. Next thing you'll tell me is that you don't know how many days a year on Athra is or that Scope News come out once a couple of weeks instead of each hour. Search for Directive Alpha Gamma 12 or any of the CONCORD rulings on the Galnet and tell me if you found anything. (You just found this thread and something else but nothing that really explains the rulings) A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Jaret Victorian Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium 562	Posted - 2016.10.19 07:04:49 - [43] - Quote You are doing something wrong then, Elmund. Do you really expect an interstellar law our society relies on to be kept private from everyone? Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
Alizabeth Vea Hounds of Sarum 932	Posted - 2016.10.19 07:10:09 - [44] - Quote 1: Diana-chan, shut up, please. 2: Mr. Victorian: If we don't know the laws CONCORD is governed by, we can't complain when they change the rules in secret, now can we? So yes. I expect them to keep as much to themselves as possible. I certainly haven't read any complete and unredacted texts. If you have, then post them here and end this, proving everyone else the fool. Though, I have to say, you are the fool. If I had made that same bit to Arrendis, she would have calculated how much time it would take for her to write up the Directive from whole cloth (probably five or six hours), and realized that the ISK to hour ratio for that was amazing and posted her creation here. And since I didn't know any better, I can't say it's not the right one, can I? You missed on an easy billion ISK. Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum. "Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 1683	Posted - 2016.10.19 07:20:20 - [45] - Quote Jaret Victorian wrote: You are doing something wrong then, Elmund. Do you really expect an interstellar law our society relies on to be kept private from everyone? Yes, I do. Now shut up, run a search yourself and come back and tell us what you find instead of procrastinating over it so that you will never have to feel the cognitive dissonance of being wrong. A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Jaret Victorian Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium 562	Posted - 2016.10.19 07:24:29 - [46] - Quote I find it amusing how you keep trying to provoke and insult me, Alizabeth. Certainly doesn't help with your reputation. Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
Alizabeth Vea Hounds of Sarum 932	Posted - 2016.10.19 07:37:10 - [47] - Quote Yes, I consider you foolish for not making an easy billion just by going to whatever secret room you have with the documents and producing them. Shocking, I know. Also, I think that my reputation as a brash, bold, and decisive battlefield commander is not in any danger. Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum. "Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Jaret Victorian Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium 565	Posted - 2016.10.19 07:59:34 - [48] - Quote Why would I go and forge law documentation? Is the fraud like this a thing that you just casually do? I mean, scamming? My oh my, all that talk about honor and stuff. Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 1684	Posted - 2016.10.19 08:36:46 - [49] - Quote Jaret Victorian wrote: Why would I go and forge law documentation? Is the fraud like this a thing that you just casually do? I mean, scamming? My oh my, all that talk about honor and stuff. Oi! No deflection! Prove that you can actually find CONCORD rulings on the Galnet, why don't you? A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Jaret Victorian Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium 566	Posted - 2016.10.19 10:34:23 - [50] - Quote Are you kidding me, Elmund? Are you seriously saying that laws don't exist? This is a ridiculous argument. Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 1684	Posted - 2016.10.19 10:59:51 - [51] - Quote Jaret Victorian wrote: Are you kidding me, Elmund? Are you seriously saying that laws don't exist? This is a ridiculous argument. I am not saying it doesn't exist, I am saying it is not publicly viewable! You can't tell people to read what isn't available anywhere public to be read! And considering CONCORD's penchant for keeping things from the general capsuleer public, I wouldn't be surprised if they kept all their laws tucked away somewhere only accessible by interstellar lawyers and lawmakers. A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Makoto Priano Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium 8767	Posted - 2016.10.19 15:16:33 - [52] - Quote Pilots, I would argue that the issue here is a limited interpretation of 'available.' Certainly, we have extremely limited access via the Neocom, but then I also can't reliably pull up planet-side tabloids while in the pod, nor can I watch or listen to much media via the pod interface except without simulating an external galnet link. This is just one of those strange limitations created by our pod interface. That said, surely, there are confidential sections of the Yulai Conventions, likely governing sharing of state secrets with CONCORD or provisions for traveling to Jove space or such things, but there are also painfully dry sections on maritime transport, tariffs and the like which are available to lawyers who have to try such cases in front of tribunals. Pillorying someone because they can't produce the full text of the Convention on a whim would be like pillorying an Imperial priest because he can't produce the full text of the Scriptures on a whim. Our systems simply aren't really set up to handle it. May as well harangue Mr. Egivand for being unable to produce the Republic constitution, or me for not having the latest minutes of a public CEP panel on market stabilization measures in Lonetrek. Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Alizabeth Vea Hounds of Sarum 933	Posted - 2016.10.19 15:28:03 - [53] - Quote Jaret Victorian wrote: Why would I go and forge law documentation? Is the fraud like this a thing that you just casually do? I mean, scamming? My oh my, all that talk about honor and stuff. But you don't have to forge anything? You said you had the text. And Priano-haani, I agree. However, no one else claimed to have the text other than your pilot. Who then insinuated everyone else was deaf, dumb, and blind for not being able to get to it. Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum. "Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Makoto Priano Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium 8767	Posted - 2016.10.19 15:31:07 - [54] - Quote And, as usual, Arrendis was profligate with insults and moral superiority over it. Noone here is without fault. Besides, who among us actually reads the damned thing? That's why I have lawyers on retainer: to avoid the migraine. Let's just let it lie. Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Alizabeth Vea Hounds of Sarum 933	Posted - 2016.10.19 15:48:39 - [55] - Quote Humility is an Amarrian virtue, not really a Sebiestor one. Despite the Empire's best attempts, I am sure. I'm not a saint, either. As far as leaving the dullness to lawyers, hear, hear. Every second I would be pouring over some dry, dull legalese is a second I could be killing Drifters. They're not going to genocide themselves, you know. Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum. "Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Elanion 43	Posted - 2016.10.19 16:31:34 - [56] - Quote Alizabeth Vea wrote: Humility is an Amarrian virtue... Huh. Never seen that before. Maybe I wasn't paying attention. I'll keep an eye out for it. RIP YC111-115 GÇó "The project discarded, its subjects forgotten... thence must the burden be shouldered."
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2541	Posted - 2016.10.19 16:36:44 - [57] - Quote Jaret Victorian wrote: Why would I go and forge law documentation? Is the fraud like this a thing that you just casually do? I mean, scamming? My oh my, all that talk about honor and stuff. If it's publicly available, why would you need to forge it?
Pieter Tuulinen Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF 6559	Posted - 2016.10.19 16:36:58 - [58] - Quote Elanion wrote: Alizabeth Vea wrote: Humility is an Amarrian virtue... Huh. Never seen that before. Maybe I wasn't paying attention. I'll keep an eye out for it. Virtues are generally notable in their rarity. For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2541	Posted - 2016.10.19 16:59:22 - [59] - Quote Makoto Priano wrote: And, as usual, Arrendis was profligate with insults and moral superiority over it. Noone here is without fault. Besides, who among us actually reads the damned thing? That's why I have lawyers on retainer: to avoid the migraine. Let's just let it lie. Yes, I responded to insults with insults. Amazing, isn't it? And here you are, offering your own moral superiority to cover for your pilot's snide and insulting manner before any insults were offered to him. So you're right, and I apologize most profusely for reacting. As for who reads the damned thing? None of us, because we can't. If we could? I would. I know a lot of other people who would, too. Some of them are lawyers. Others are just people who like to know what things to avoid doing so they don't get their crews blown up over a technicality. So let's recap: I make a statement that's true. My statement included no insults, did not mention Jaret in any way. Jaret chimes in with unprovoked insults and makes a claim he can't back up. I call him out on it, matching his snide tone. You decide I'm the one being 'profilgate with insults' when the only thing insulting I've said was 'so amazingly superior', as opposed to calling him 'lazy' and being derisive about his intelligence. Do you see how this fits the pattern of you deciding me asking you for help was an opportunity to twist literally everything I said around so you could be aggrieved and play the victim? Do you see how this sort of behavior only serves to call into question your trustworthiness, and suggest that Diana might actually be right about you? Tell you what: you're back to caracals and scythes, by your own decision. You have no plans to use my basilisks. How about you give them back to Alizabeth, who will, as a demonstration that you're not what Kim paints you as? After all, honor's a Caldari virtue, right? I bought and fitted those ships to be used against Drifters, and they went to you with that intent. You've decided not to use them. So honor the intent, and give them back to someone who will. I'll even send you the isk to SRP 3 logi, once you do.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin Noticed. 2003	Posted - 2016.10.19 17:26:45 - [60] - Quote All I need to know is that the very same extralegal and extraterritorial status CONCORD grants through its pilot licenses also in effect makes an owner of that said license an outlaw by default. As outlaws and thus not granted the protections of the law we cannot sue each other, are not liable for any actions we might undertake, and CONCORD can arbitrarily destroy our vessels or seize our assets without things like warrants or due process. As such I fail to see any need to know the CONCORD provisos by heart when the vast majority of them don't apply to us anyway.

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