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Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
518
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Posted - 2016.10.21 00:32:21 -
[1] - Quote
Just wondering what has changed since I've been away, I dusted off my old Hurricane because I just don't see them about anymore, is it because tornadoes are the better gank boat? |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18339
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Posted - 2016.10.21 00:45:40 -
[2] - Quote
Canes online got nerfed. The navy cane can still do what the old cane did. |
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
518
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Posted - 2016.10.21 03:17:19 -
[3] - Quote
Thanks, well guess its still good for lvl 3 missions. |
Paranoid Loyd
9716
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Posted - 2016.10.21 03:31:58 -
[4] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:Thanks, well guess its still good for lvl 3 missions. Yep
"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix
Fix the Prospect!
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RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
1284
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Posted - 2016.10.21 03:46:27 -
[5] - Quote
All of the T1 BC's got a nerf, and the Navy versions could do basically the same thing., but they were more of a trophy/primary target.
The thing about the old T1 BC's was, they were cheap fun. Disposable. Nobody really wanted to do that with 200 million ISK Navy ships..... and they didn't want to fly, what felt like, a weaker T1 version of the old BC.
Add insurance issues and it concluded the end of an era |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
866
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Posted - 2016.10.21 04:56:59 -
[6] - Quote
RavenPaine wrote:All of the T1 BC's got a nerf
with cane CCP went above and beyond the other BC nerfs. They made sure , with extreme prejudice, dual neut o cane would not come back. SLot removal, check. Grid castration just in case someone said who needs full rack of guns to run neuts again, check. TE nerf, check. TE did affect other races but...its clear who that was meant for. And no, it sure as hell wasn't lolrox.
Not a bad thing to remove dual neut o cane....it just made other fits a pita as well.
Drake's nerf as I recall minimal. Not even a nerf really. They saved real gimpjng for drake (and tengu) with hml nerf. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2016.10.22 01:32:56 -
[7] - Quote
On that note, can we get some smaller heavy missile launchers? The regular ones are too large to fit them on a heavy missile boat..
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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Arronicus
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Badfellas Inc.
1535
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Posted - 2016.10.22 06:56:05 -
[8] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:On that note, can we get some smaller heavy missile launchers? The regular ones are too large to fit them on a heavy missile boat..
Perhaps... what you're looking for are compact heavy missile launchers? Arbalest and malkuth might suit your needs
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Sara Starbuck
Adamantine Creations
15
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Posted - 2016.10.22 13:48:12 -
[9] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:On that note, can we get some smaller heavy missile launchers? The regular ones are too large to fit them on a heavy missile boat..
I havent had any problems fitting the launchers, now if you want long range weaponry and brick tank, then that combo is pretty impossible to do. |
Alaric Faelen
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
384
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Posted - 2016.10.22 16:53:52 -
[10] - Quote
CCP cannot balance their ship lines to save their lives. Even when they got close a couple years ago with tiericide and rebalance passes, they almost immediately flushed the whole thing down the toilet when they dropped T3D's and Mordus ships. Overnight classes that had barely gotten to shine were once again relegated to mothballs because 'balance' to CCP means that out of all the ships in the game, about half a dozen are actually useful at any given time. To be honest, it's not that all the other ships are useless. It's just that some are so demonstrably better at a given task that flying anything else is a self-imposed gimp. It's like still having tiers, but it's just not called that now.
There is little reason to fly a BC in Eve. The current meta in Eve clearly favors speed and mobility. Combine the cruiser class's ability to move, align, and warp faster than a BC-- yet retain nearly BS sized tank and gank-- means BC's in general are at best a niche class of ship. The tier 3 versions are good for structure bashing but it's been ages since I've seen a significant number of BCs in a null sec PvP fleet.
Another reason is power (and wealth) creep. As another poster mentioned-- BC's used to be cheap fun but still pretty effective. However, few alliances worth their recruiting adverts these days worry about income. Once upon a time seeing a T3 cruiser in a fleet meant someone had money to burn....but now entire fleets of nothing but T2/T3 ships are commonplace. I looked at my own hangar the other day and realized the only T1 ship I even owned was still a pirate faction vessel. Everything else is T2/T3. Neither price nor SP are remotely a barrier anymore given isk faucets and skill injection- and are no longer much excuse to NOT just fly the T2/T3 ships. |
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Sara Starbuck
Adamantine Creations
15
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Posted - 2016.10.23 05:19:24 -
[11] - Quote
Navy BCs were used a lot in the Alliance Tournament though, so they cant be totally useless, though the pointcost of them was prolly a factor compared to battleships. |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
1132
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Posted - 2016.10.25 12:52:01 -
[12] - Quote
Alaric Faelen wrote:The tier 3 versions are good for structure bashing but it's been ages since I've seen a significant number of BCs in a null sec PvP fleet.
Well, I dunno. Seems like they are being actively flown right now as cheap alpha ships to zerg rush things like T3s, for example. I'm not an expert here though.
Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
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Nikea Tiber
Backwater Enterprises RD
38
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Posted - 2016.10.26 20:17:41 -
[13] - Quote
Between the collosal nerf bat that specifically targeted the 'cane and the warp speed changes, BCs fell out of favor as ships of the line as a whole as the meta (continually) moves towards mobility.
That being said, they have a lot more tanking ability and striking power than a t3d at a similar, but insurable price point, so they see fleet use in situations that there is a good chance for 100% whelping.
T3d fleets obviously have a mobility advantage as well as firepower that is optimized for hitting small, fast moving targets... so shedding fast tackle and gtfo is possible in situations that would leave larger ships wrecked.
my other nano is a polycarb
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W0lf Crendraven
Welfcorp
453
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Posted - 2016.10.26 23:10:38 -
[14] - Quote
Also, you have to remember the relative power of the cane back then compared to now. Even if the cane didnt get nerfed it wouldnt be everywhere.
Back then the cane actually was faster then almost all t1 cruisers, and all cruisers did way less damage then they do now and they also had no tank at all + kiting wasnt as easy as it is now, amarr ships sucked in general so while scorch was op it didnt translate that into power due to the ships being really bad, the buff to rails and beams didnt happen yet and rlmls were **** and people all used hmls. And the cane also was about as agile as a t1 cruiser and warped just as fast so offgrid mobility was the same as t1 cruisers.
In relative terms a cane back then, compared to what it would be now, would be a ship that goes 2km/s preheat with just a mwd fit, deals 900dps with a 80k ehp tank while dealing 60% of that damage at 30km while tracking fine up close, with 2 utility medium neuts while having 0 cap issues - that also warps as fast as a cruiser. (relatively speaking, of it power level now and back then) And a ship right now with those stats with a cost of 20 million isk after insurance would still be flown everywhere.
Stuff didnt have as much tank back then and kiting weapons, as said before, sucked in general while the cane pre te nerf actually could kite somewhat just with 425s and barrage.
Also, and this played a big part, frigs were garbage back then. The rifter in a weaker form as it is now was the undisputed borderline Op frigate back then, and the jag and ishkur as they are now were by far the best AFs. And that was basicely it, with the ranis also making a appearance.
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Kn1v3s 999
Aliastra Gallente Federation
42
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Posted - 2016.11.18 05:50:11 -
[15] - Quote
What Wolf said, beside that i don t think it' s easier to kite now. Maybe in a Orthrus but beside that, with mjd, short guns shooting at kiting range, bonused neuts reaching 40km, rlml, arty and beams being much more viable and common, damps which were dead at that old cane time... and so on |
Tusker Crazinski
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
87
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Posted - 2016.11.20 21:27:50 -
[16] - Quote
Gunboats in general aren't that common anymore. |
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