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Will DX9 be sufficient for walking in stations?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Juwi Kotch Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Galactic-Federation	Posted - 2007.03.25 13:35:00 - [1] I got contradictory information on that so far, so maybe a DEV can answer this: Walking in Stations - can that be done with a DX9 card (even with probably lower quality), or will we need a DX10 graphics chip? Juwi Kotch JOIN NOW, KLICK SIG!
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.03.25 15:24:00 - [2] I read itll be vista and Dx10 only somewhere... ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainfrane]
Juwi Kotch Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Galactic-Federation	Posted - 2007.03.25 15:27:00 - [3] Yes, I've read that too. And the the contradictionary as well... Juwi Koch JOIN NOW, KLICK SIG!
Vincent Almasy Gallente The Underground	Posted - 2007.03.25 16:59:00 - [4] are they even working on walking on station right now or even this year?
lofty29 Athanasius Inc. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.25 17:26:00 - [5] I read that all the stuff they showed in the video on TenTonHammer was DX9. Not sure where I read it tho... ---
zeeZ Exus Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.03.25 17:42:00 - [6] This thread. Originally by: t0rfiFrans Hi all First of all, I'd like to thank you all for the great interest people are showing the Ambulation project. Second, I'd like to mention a few technical things about the trailer people saw: 1. All the graphics are in-game from our upgraded Trinity engine. The animation is motion captured and then blended using our new character animation engine. 2. The video was made on an Alienware Area 51 R4 Quad core SLI machine with two Geforce 8800 cards with 768 MB RAM each. I think the machine has 4 gigs of regular RAM. That's not the required spec for the final product, though, but as the shaders are yet unoptimized, we prefer working with such monster hardware when making trailers and such. 3. The engine runs in DirectX 9, Shader model 3.0 on Windows XP. [...]
Juwi Kotch Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Galactic-Federation	Posted - 2007.03.25 22:10:00 - [7] Originally by: zeeZ Exus This thread. Originally by: t0rfiFrans Hi all First of all, I'd like to thank you all for the great interest people are showing the Ambulation project. Second, I'd like to mention a few technical things about the trailer people saw: 1. All the graphics are in-game from our upgraded Trinity engine. The animation is motion captured and then blended using our new character animation engine. 2. The video was made on an Alienware Area 51 R4 Quad core SLI machine with two Geforce 8800 cards with 768 MB RAM each. I think the machine has 4 gigs of regular RAM. That's not the required spec for the final product, though, but as the shaders are yet unoptimized, we prefer working with such monster hardware when making trailers and such. 3. The engine runs in DirectX 9, Shader model 3.0 on Windows XP. [...] I understood, that this only related to the development environment for the video as presented. I'd like to know what technology the future client to run Walking in Stations need. Juwi Kotch JOIN NOW, KLICK SIG!
Tunajuice Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.26 03:30:00 - [8] Very unlikely the game will not allow DX9 to access any part of the game, as the mass majority of it's customers are not using DX10. I think DX10 will only offer extra goodies.
Juwi Kotch Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Galactic-Federation	Posted - 2007.03.27 09:19:00 - [9] All we know about this is based on hearsay or speculation. Could please someone (a DEV probably) give some more substantial information about that? Juwi Kotch JOIN NOW, KLICK SIG!
Christopher Dalran Gallente Deadly Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.27 16:50:00 - [10] I'm not buying vista, I REFUSE to buy vista. ------------------------------- C.D's Formula for success ------------------------------- Credit Card = Game Time Card Gametime Card = ISK Therefore Credit Card = ISK.

Juwi Kotch Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Galactic-Federation	Posted - 2007.03.28 07:44:00 - [11] I don't like Visat either, and the next Laptop I buy will have Linux as its primary OS. But I will have Vista on a different partition, just to be able to use the one or other application or function which are only available on this platform. Since walking in stations exactly fill the biggest disadvantage of this game (no real avatars), I would be willing to play EVE from Vista, when this would be the only way to run this feature. That's one of the reasons why I would like to know if walking in stations will be mandatory, or if we will be able to use this feature with DX9 as well. Juwi Kotch JOIN NOW, KLICK SIG!
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.03.28 09:10:00 - [12] Edited by: Akita T on 28/03/2007 09:12:19 AFAIK, WIS is / will be DX10 only. So Vista mandatory. Bleah. Oh well, I didn't need to WIS anyway, but would have liked to. I just hope they also implement a heavily toned-down WiS version for DX9, but I wouldn't hold my breath, I doubt it's on their priority list. My current "good" machine can't even run 2-year old games with a decent FPS (EVE works just fine, surprisingly good even), and my "backup" machine can barely run EVE on XP right now (under 3 FPS in missions). Still can't be arsed to upgrade to a computer that CAN run Vista acceptably just to be able to play all EVE will have to offer. You know, because THIS would be the ONLY reason to upgrade my PC and to Vista. Nothing else. And it just isn't enough. I also hope many more feel the same way, and WiS will be void of life for that reason, creating a "strongarming tactics" scenario that might just force CCP to release a DX9 version eventually. P.S. So, can anybody that HAS a DX10-capable card in a (recently upgraded to) Vista computer confirm the fact that just about every DX9 game runs at least two times lousier as it did with WinXP ? That is, if you can get it to run at all in the first place ? _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Juwi Kotch Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Galactic-Federation	Posted - 2007.03.31 09:32:00 - [13] Could some DEV please answer the question, if DX10 will be mandatory for walking in stations or not, or - in case they don't know yet for sure - what the most likely outcome will be? Juwi Kotch JOIN NOW, KLICK SIG!
Juwi Kotch Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Galactic-Federation	Posted - 2007.04.03 14:24:00 - [14] Ok... I need a new laptop. This new laptop will virtually be bought solely for EVE online, I have another one from my company where I can do all the correspondence and professional work with, and my present one will go to my wife, who needs a computer to manage her newly set-up website. I have two options: A middle class Toshiba, 15.4"/1280x800, Intel T2250, 1024MB Ram, nVidia 7600/256MB, for 900 Euros An upper class Dell, 17"/1920x1200, Intel T7200, 2048MB Ram, nVidia 7900/256MB, for 1,400 Euros When walking in stations will not require DX10, I would buy the Dell one, since I then could use this for 3+ years. If walking in stations will require DX10, I would buy the Toshiba, since I would buy something able to run DX10 as soon as walking in stations does come out. Both come with Vista Home Premium, btw. What shall I do? Any Dev please could answer this question? Juwi Kotch JOIN NOW, KLICK SIG!
Maar T'Kmel Minmatar United Federation of Planets	Posted - 2007.04.03 15:52:00 - [15] Originally by: Juwi Kotch Since walking in stations exactly fill the biggest disadvantage of this game (no real avatars)... What avatars? We're in a pod full of amniotic fluid connected to a computer, just like Neo from the Matrix was. We're not regular citizens of this galaxy, we're special. We're ship pilots. If we are to walk around, then the stations cannot just have us. It needs to be full of the trillions of other galaxy civilians out there.
Eleana Tomelac Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.03 16:07:00 - [16] Originally by: Maar T'Kmel Originally by: Juwi Kotch Since walking in stations exactly fill the biggest disadvantage of this game (no real avatars)... What avatars? We're in a pod full of amniotic fluid connected to a computer, just like Neo from the Matrix was. We're not regular citizens of this galaxy, we're special. We're ship pilots. If we are to walk around, then the stations cannot just have us. It needs to be full of the trillions of other galaxy civilians out there. You're right, we're the Elite, one of the few that are not subject to the mind locks. Ship captains can accumulate wealth like no other citizen can (who said I want a full wardrobe?), I think we could have a full escort of bodyguards in stations (or escort girls if you guys prefer) or have special areas of stations authorized only to ship captains, it seems ship captains are just too precious to the empires (when loyal to an empire) to be risked to be killed while taking a walk in a station... -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Flying Vexor and Ishkur, Myrmidon was too slow, got ganked by 3 BC and a Megathron...
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.04.03 18:08:00 - [17] Originally by: Juwi Kotch This new laptop will virtually be bought solely for EVE online If you wait 2-3 more months, you might be able to buy a DX10-capable laptop... Even if you buy one DX9 capable laptop now, I'd advise to NOT buy any with Vista, better stick with the ones that offer XP Pro (or if it has Vista, delete it and install something else). Have done a few tests with the computers a few friends bought and I can only say Vista is HORRIBLE no matter how you put it. The only reason to get Vista is to also get a computer with a DX10 capable video card AND use it to run DX10-capable applications. For anything other than that, please, don't even boot Vista. _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Juwi Kotch Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Galactic-Federation	Posted - 2007.04.03 21:45:00 - [18] We had the CeBit here in my hometown two weeks ago, the worlds largest fair on computer and related technology. I asked at Toshiba there, when the first laptops with DX10 graphics chips will hit the market. They stated, that this will not happen before early 4th quarter this year. And that it will be at least another year, until they will not be priced premiumly. Unfortunately, Vista or not Vista is no option at this offers, I would prefer XP myself. But I planned to run the new laptop on Linux anyways. Juwi Kotch JOIN NOW, KLICK SIG!
stoneyharrie2	Posted - 2007.04.04 07:06:00 - [19] Edited by: stoneyharrie2 on 04/04/2007 07:04:16 dx10 will be launched to xp at some time too.. =\ but designing an dx10 game isnt at easy as you people think, its not done with paint, and is much more work as an dx9 game if an dx9 game would need 1 month a dx10 one would take 2-3 to develop and if you too poor to buy vista, you wont have an gforce 8800 too so dx10 wont even start up, giving engine error and an geforce 7 series CANT do dx10 neither an x1950 or something neither
Juwi Kotch Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD	Posted - 2007.04.04 09:59:00 - [20] Originally by: stoneyharrie2 Edited by: stoneyharrie2 on 04/04/2007 07:04:16 dx10 will be launched to xp at some time too.. =\ and if you too poor to buy vista, you wont have an gforce 8800 too so dx10 wont even start up, giving engine error and an geforce 7 series CANT do dx10, neither an x1950 or something neither Where did you learn about DX10 for XP? It's not the money to buy Vista, it's the wish to not have this spy and bully on my computer. Besides, new laptops now come mostly with Vista per default, you rarely have a chance to change that. Juwi Kotch JOIN NOW, KLICK SIG!

Sanitys Rebel	Posted - 2007.04.04 12:24:00 - [21] Just looking at the situation i "HIGHLY" doubt this feature, or any other feature ever implemented in eve, will require DX10 to run at all. Many other MMORPG's run ambulatory avatars on DX9/OpenGL and lower so why can't CCP. Also with the rumors of a Linux Client, and a Confirmed Mac Client, they would alienate an entire new customer base were they to make it Vista only. I myself already run EVE under Wine/Ubuntu and if they were to, however unlikely, make the decision to make the feature Vista only, i would leave and i can safely say so will many others. I am not willing to compromise my entire networks security, and give microsoft complete controll of my laptop, just to play EVE. Vista is just flat evil and CCP probobly knows this as well as everyone else. So while this is only speculation, its also logical. There is just honestly no logic behind making it DX10 only and i beleive CCP knows this. So i think its safe to say, it will be DX9 and hopefully, OpenGL.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.04.04 12:35:00 - [22] Edited by: Akita T on 04/04/2007 12:35:17 Originally by: stoneyharrie2 dx10 will be launched to xp at some time too.. =\ Short answer : NO. Long answer : Quote: - DirectX 9.0L was the early name designation for what is now called "DirectX 9.0Ex". - DirectX 9.0Ex is a Windows Vista only feature. In a nutshell, it is DirectX 9.0c, with some modifications to work smoothly with the new driver characteristics of Windows Vista, which is significantly different at the graphics level than Windows XP. You can read more about DirectX 9.0Ex and how it fits into the Windows Vista picture here - Windows XP cannot run DirectX 10 (technically, Direct3D 10) applications because of the significant changes in the graphics API and driver model - And while I’m on it, the Xbox 360 cannot run Direct3D 10 because it lacks the Shader Model 4.0 hardware. So, if you’ve read this far and STILL want Windows XP to run DirectX 10, you know the only answer: You’ll need to upgrade to Windows Vista and install a Shader Model 4.0 graphics card! Also... Originally by: stoneyharrie2 and if you too poor to buy vista, you wont have an gforce 8800 too so dx10 wont even start up, giving engine error Who says anything about being too POOR for Vista ? How about the fact Vista is pure and unadulterated DRM crap packaged to look like a legitimate OS ? Or the fact everything runs so much slower on Vista as it does on the same machine with XP installed ? Or any of the other good reasons to just SAY NO to Vista in its current incarnations ? Originally by: Sanitys Rebel Just looking at the situation i "HIGHLY" doubt this feature, or any other feature ever implemented in eve, will require DX10 to run at all.[...]So while this is only speculation, its also logical. There is just honestly no logic behind making it DX10 only and i beleive CCP knows this. So i think its safe to say, it will be DX9 and hopefully, OpenGL. Well, let's put it this way... the "ambulation" project is NOT an EVE project. It's a new and DX10-centric "cutting edge" MMORPG engine that is being ADAPTED for use in EVE. WIS/Ambulation will be an optional feature for EVE, a feature that will make no huge impact (if any) in the "space" world of EVE, and therefore there probably won't be any efforts to make it capable to run on a XP/DX9 machine... UNLESS there's enough of a public outcry against it AND the Vista/DX10 flops badly (which it probably won't, because there are enough stupid people in the world). _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Sir Perigrin Confederate Sons Of Liberty Pax Familia	Posted - 2007.04.04 12:54:00 - [23] Believe me, the public outcry is already there. There are a large number of computer programmers, Engineers, designers, power users, total nerds, etc. who have all know a large ammount about computers. A vast majority of these people, know just how evil vista is. there WILL be a public outcry from this mass of people. Right here for all the world to see, ill go ahead and say it now to quote me later. IF EVE REQUIRES VISTA FOR ANY FEATURE TO RUN AT BASIC CAPACITY, I WILL CANCEL MY ACCOUNT ON PATCH DAY! This is my primary character, and i WILL stand by this. PolyDreamial Hosting A Host for all your Dreams
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.04.04 13:22:00 - [24] Edited by: Akita T on 04/04/2007 13:28:55 Microsoft claims they sold over 20 million copies of Vista so far... ... of course, at least half of those are actually "upgrade coupons" for PCs sold with XP in the late '06 (those "Vista Capable" ones, better said "Basic Vista Boot Capable"), and from the remaining ones, again a vast majority are actually OEM sales packaged on newly sold computers. Still, 20+ mil Vista users (most of them unable to run DX10 for now) is still an impressive number. I sure do hope the sales flop badly in the next few months, as people realise what's going on, and REFUSE to buy a Vista OEM computer (and buy a XP OEM one instead). _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Juwi Kotch Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD	Posted - 2007.04.04 13:42:00 - [25] Well, the problem is, that 90% of all freshly sold computers to the consumers will have Vista pre-installed. So the numbers will come automatically. Anyways, all this still does not provide a solid answer to my question: Will walking in station work with DX9, or with DX10 only? Juwi Kotch JOIN NOW, KLICK SIG!

Redundancy	Posted - 2007.04.04 14:53:00 - [26] As started in 3 other places I can think of, some linked earlier in this thread already, I'll just say it again and be ready to state it the next time another thread is started: The Walking in Station / Ambulation technology is designed and implemented on top of the DX9 engine rewrite. There are currently no plans to require DX10 for any gameplay feature.

Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.04.04 16:02:00 - [27] Edited by: Akita T on 04/04/2007 16:05:31 Phew, one thing I'm glad to be wrong about P.S. The WIS ("Ambulation") and upcoming WoD MMORPG requiring Vista/DX10 in the final implementation, that is... nothing else of what's been said in here. _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Juwi Kotch Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD	Posted - 2007.04.04 16:15:00 - [28] Originally by: Redundancy As started in 3 other places I can think of, some linked earlier in this thread already, I'll just say it again and be ready to state it the next time another thread is started: The Walking in Station / Ambulation technology is designed and implemented on top of the DX9 engine rewrite. There are currently no plans to require DX10 for any gameplay feature. Thanks a lot, Redundancy, glad to read that! Juwi Kotch JOIN NOW, KLICK SIG!
Sanitys Rebel	Posted - 2007.04.05 13:32:00 - [29] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 04/04/2007 13:28:55 Microsoft claims they sold over 20 million copies of Vista so far... ... of course, at least half of those are actually "upgrade coupons" for PCs sold with XP in the late '06 (those "Vista Capable" ones, better said "Basic Vista Boot Capable"), and from the remaining ones, again a vast majority are actually OEM sales packaged on newly sold computers. Still, 20+ mil Vista users (most of them unable to run DX10 for now) is still an impressive number. I sure do hope the sales flop badly in the next few months, as people realise what's going on, and REFUSE to buy a Vista OEM computer (and buy a XP OEM one instead). Unfourtunatly Micro$oft has prohibited the sale of XP OEM's at ALL! However, there is hope!!! Dell Germany recently refunded the cost of the Vista OEM to a customers computer in exchange for him not using it. Dell and HP are also discussing Linux OEM installs!!!
Junior Angelfire Gallente The Last Ravens	Posted - 2007.04.08 00:35:00 - [30] Edited by: Junior Angelfire on 08/04/2007 00:32:21 Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 28/03/2007 09:12:19 AFAIK, WIS is / will be DX10 only. So Vista mandatory. Bleah. Oh well, I didn't need to WIS anyway, but would have liked to. I just hope they also implement a heavily toned-down WiS version for DX9, but I wouldn't hold my breath, I doubt it's on their priority list. My current "good" machine can't even run 2-year old games with a decent FPS (EVE works just fine, surprisingly good even), and my "backup" machine can barely run EVE on XP right now (under 3 FPS in missions). Still can't be arsed to upgrade to a computer that CAN run Vista acceptably just to be able to play all EVE will have to offer. You know, because THIS would be the ONLY reason to upgrade my PC and to Vista. Nothing else. And it just isn't enough. I also hope many more feel the same way, and WiS will be void of life for that reason, creating a "strongarming tactics" scenario that might just force CCP to release a DX9 version eventually. P.S. So, can anybody that HAS a DX10-capable card in a (recently upgraded to) Vista computer confirm the fact that just about every DX9 game runs at least two times lousier as it did with WinXP ? That is, if you can get it to run at all in the first place ? I would hate to quit eve if dx10 becomes mandatory i really dont wanna shell out $1000 for new gfx card, power supply, AND vista



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