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Deastre
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Posted - 2007.03.26 00:49:00 -
[1]
What a joke. Despite my deep and budding addiction for this truly remarkable game, the title of "Best PVP" is not fitting in the least.
PVP in Eve is almost laughable. 90% of the time, the "fights" are over before they begin, lasting all of 15-20 seconds and requiring very little skill on both the victim's attempt to escape, and the agressor anihlating them.
In order to be effective, you frequently have to fit such that fitting 1+ wcs is unreasonable, making any attempt at escape impossible. Comparitively, in games like WoW, a lower level character can frequently escape from a higher level character.
Eve forces characters towards blob PVP, making pvp for the blobbers intensely unexciting, and pvp for the victims intensely depressing.
This post is not intended to incite flaming, but i'm genuinely curious to know if there's something i overlooked?
/Dons idiot-proof flame vest.
Everyone who loves pvp in Eve, please, enlighten me my friends.
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Petrothian Tong
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.26 00:52:00 -
[2]
hey, is best for SOMEBODY.. might not be you =P
-Siggi-
""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur |
deathforge
The Accursed
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Posted - 2007.03.26 00:56:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Deastre
/Dons idiot-proof flame vest.
Too bad the forums don't have one of these, would keep idiots like you quietly out of the public eye.
And by the way, I rule you.
----------------------
Low skillpoint Rifter piracy video |
Jex Jast
Go for the booty
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Posted - 2007.03.26 00:57:00 -
[4]
You haven't seen much of Eve's PvP. Yes, a good amount of it is blob warfare but...well let me address what you've said section by section.
"90% of the time, the "fights" are over before they begin, lasting all of 15-20 seconds and requiring very little skill on both the victim's attempt to escape, and the agressor anihlating them."
A ganking isn't PvP. It's a ganking. PvP involves two fighters, not a robber and a victim. Should the victim fight back it becomes PvP. Otherwise it's PvT (player vs target).
"n order to be effective, you frequently have to fit such that fitting 1+ wcs is unreasonable, making any attempt at escape impossible. Comparitively, in games like WoW, a lower level character can frequently escape from a higher level character."
Eve is not a game about running away. If you're somewhere that a higher "level" character can kill you, you're in the wrong place, or you're not being careful enough. Eve is different from other games in that you aren't allowed to fight until you're losing, you either fight or you run. The nerf to WCS has set this up, and I'm quite glad it did. People used to set up powerful fighting ships but if they were losing they could escape with their 8 stabs in low rack. Now if you fit 8 stabs you can't shoot.
Fight or flight. That's what's great.
"Eve forces characters towards blob PVP, making pvp for the blobbers intensely unexciting, and pvp for the victims intensely depressing."
You must have met the anti-pirates. They blob a lot because it's a surefire way to overpower someone. You don't need to train specialties or anything, so you can run your missions as a regular carebear. Think of it as a part-time militia (Minutemen comes to mind for those who know a bit about American history).
Pirates and true PvP-focused players, however, can fight in small groups or solo and do well, as they know how and they've trained the right skills.
"This post is not intended to incite flaming, but i'm genuinely curious to know if there's something i overlooked? "
Yes. A significant portion of the game. You'll see it as you venture further.
"Everyone who loves pvp in Eve, please, enlighten me my friends."
Consider yourself enlightened. 
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:::Need to be cleaned:::
Fixed it. Happy?
Quite  . -HornFrog |
Damien Smith
Turbulent
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Posted - 2007.03.26 01:16:00 -
[5]
90% of a fight happens before the ships even see each other. Decisions in planning, tactics, and timing are worth 10x as much as decisions made during combat.
-----
My sparkly tinfoil hat is extremely distracting, and makes my eyes bleed. -Conuion Meow ([email protected])
Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie)
Actually... no, it was teh sig. I'm wearing tinfoil goggles already. -Teh Meow |
Arekhon
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2007.03.26 01:50:00 -
[6]
Jex said enough for me.....
side note..give it time man
I fought in RL and it was 90% boredom and 10% excitment, even then in that 10% it was over so fast(at least it seemed that way) Did you at least get the shakes???
my thoughts and ideas represent your corp
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Nyabinghi
Minmatar
Khumatari Holdings
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.03.26 02:36:00 -
[7]
From what I've seen from high sec to 0.0 I have to say that the OP's view is not far off the mark. There are exceptions though where two equally and opposing squads bump into each other in space or when one pilot challenges another to a duel. Speaking of challenges do they still do the glove slap thing or is that out of style now? Too knowing just the right moment to turn on and off your reppers makes a big difference. Unless you are in a Probe and you have a Megathron bearing down on you. 
***
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vile56
Nubs.
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.26 03:13:00 -
[8]
Edited by: vile56 on 26/03/2007 03:10:44
make uber amounts of isk i dont care how scam gtc ect ect.
use all that money to buy the best mods there are
on sunday prime time jump that ship into a camped 0.0-empire gate.
get the shakes like a ***** win or loose.
or pirate.
ive stayed in this game almost 2 years all but 2 months pvpin, i think that says something
edit stabs are made to get away from fights that you dont want to start, not to use after you start to loose
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Deastre
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Posted - 2007.03.26 04:19:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Deastre on 26/03/2007 04:21:12
Arekhon and Vile56: your posts were the most relevant. you both described the adrenaline every pvper thirsts for:the "shakes" accurately. Yes, two nights ago when my T2 Dominix and my bud's T1 Drake were mobbed by 11 t1 cruisers and a single t1 bc, i shook like a diabetic in a candy store for every delicious second of the battle... all 22 seconds that it took for them to kill me that is. Unfortunately we were looking for a reasonably winnable fight for almost 3 hours before that, add the time it took for us to obtain/fit these ships... i could have built a pyramid. alone. using one hand. in a wheelchair.
Most posters have said that your fights will last longer/be more successful if you choose them wisely, have the right skills, fit correctly, gathering money to afford the hobby, etc. and there's no question that this is accurate. But all of this takes time, and the goal of every bloodthirsy pvper is to minimize the time between shakes and the length of the shakes. Eve online is not receptive to this goal. My complaint is that having come from World of Warcraft, enticed by the claim of amazing PVP, i can honestly say that my shakes were both much longer and much more frequent in almost every other game. can anyone disagree?
Jex: Thanks.
Damien: Unless you're able to be excited for a good 5-6 hours preparing for the 27.2 second fight, then i have a very valid point.
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Warrio
Ruin Inc.
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Posted - 2007.03.26 05:11:00 -
[10]
I was just talking with my boys the other day about how this was exacaly not the case in EvE. I have collected just over 100 killmails in my lowsec pirate career thus far and have not yet been ganked or ganked in an unreasonable fight at all.
I killed a few solo cruisers in my BC but with a bit of situational awareness he could have made it out.
My friend and I were taken down at a gate by a Tempest and an Absolution in our BC and Raven but it wasn't an unreasonably fight and we almost had the Tempest with the gate guns helping us.
My point: Go and find an area of lowsec to pirate in. Learn to use the scanner and pick the fights you can win.
If you want to go out into 0.0 with out mates charging in like a gang of retards then you will be ganked... hard.
Yarr etc. |
Arekhon
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2007.03.26 05:16:00 -
[11]
Deastre I would have to disagree with you a bit. I do not get the shakes as often as I used to but they do last for a bit beyond the fight. Hell there are sometimes when the scout will find a group that out numbers us and we hunt them. In those instances I usually start shaking once I think that the engagement is close. So then they could last up to 5 mins or more...(hunting, fight, cooldown).The last set of shakes I gto was springing a trap (we didn't know it was a trap at the time) and where outnumbered 9to5 if my memory serves me right. Anyway I lost 2 ships in 3 minutes and we lost the overall fight (that time),but I thanked the guys in local for a great fight...those shakes were great!!!! Seeing more and more ships jump in....
However a majority of the fight do end to quickly and oftern don't provoke "the shakes" like they used to. So I steadily search for that rush like a junkie when I hunt
P.S. The truly awsome fights in this game do trump any PVP I have encountered in any other game though IMO.
my thoughts and ideas represent your corp
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Benglada
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.03.26 05:31:00 -
[12]
Today me and my two friends (Megathron, myrmidon, Falcton) were attacked by seven enemys (Huginn, Arazu, Myrmidon x2 interceptor x2) and we won with them taking two losses and us taking zero, despite the fact that me in my battleship could only lock a grand total of one target.
The only thats needed to get a fair fight is tricking your opponant into thinking its not one.
---------------------------
Originally by: Arkanor
0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
Sig nerfz0r - maximum allowed siz0r is 24000 bytz0r. - Devil ([email protected])
Sig By Ortos |
illusionary beauty
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Posted - 2007.03.26 06:52:00 -
[13]
WCS are lame.
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Redglare's Demise
Shih Yang Tong
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Posted - 2007.03.26 07:07:00 -
[14]
As Benglada said... pvp in eve is alot more than how you handle your vessel in combat.
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Grunanca
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Posted - 2007.03.26 07:32:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Deastre
What a joke. Despite my deep and budding addiction for this truly remarkable game, the title of "Best PVP" is not fitting in the least.
PVP in Eve is almost laughable. 90% of the time, the "fights" are over before they begin, lasting all of 15-20 seconds and requiring very little skill on both the victim's attempt to escape, and the agressor anihlating them.
In order to be effective, you frequently have to fit such that fitting 1+ wcs is unreasonable, making any attempt at escape impossible. Comparitively, in games like WoW, a lower level character can frequently escape from a higher level character.
Eve forces characters towards blob PVP, making pvp for the blobbers intensely unexciting, and pvp for the victims intensely depressing.
This post is not intended to incite flaming, but i'm genuinely curious to know if there's something i overlooked?
/Dons idiot-proof flame vest.
Everyone who loves pvp in Eve, please, enlighten me my friends.
So because you are never safe and can loose your stuff, EVE is bad? PvP in this game is awsome. What is a joke is comparing to WoW... WoW is lame, you got no death penalty and can just run into pvp again no matter how big the ganksquad is. You have to use your brain here, and that would be a lot. if you dont like blobs, I can tell you atleast 1/3 of the game consist of 0.1-1.0 systems in which blobs doesnt exist. Stay there and you will have awsome fights against the many pirates there.
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kublai
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.03.26 07:51:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Deastre
What a joke. Despite my deep and budding addiction for this truly remarkable game, the title of "Best PVP" is not fitting in the least.
PVP in Eve is almost laughable. 90% of the time, the "fights" are over before they begin, lasting all of 15-20 seconds and requiring very little skill on both the victim's attempt to escape, and the agressor anihlating them.
In order to be effective, you frequently have to fit such that fitting 1+ wcs is unreasonable, making any attempt at escape impossible. Comparitively, in games like WoW, a lower level character can frequently escape from a higher level character.
Eve forces characters towards blob PVP, making pvp for the blobbers intensely unexciting, and pvp for the victims intensely depressing.
This post is not intended to incite flaming, but i'm genuinely curious to know if there's something i overlooked?
/Dons idiot-proof flame vest.
Everyone who loves pvp in Eve, please, enlighten me my friends.
Bu frickin hu, go back to WoW, it's not our fault you lack the brains/talent to survive in eve, and to mention WoW in as a positive in a pvp debate...what the hell are you smoking and keep it the **** away from me
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Lucifer Fellblade
Ore Mongers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.03.26 08:26:00 -
[17]
Your biggest mistake is assuming that PvP only occurs with the actual shooting of targets, 90% of the fight is preperation and organistation.
------
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Camar
Stormriders
Fimbulwinter
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Posted - 2007.03.26 08:55:00 -
[18]
Pvp, shakes and WoW in the same sentence 
Perahaps if an earthquake hit 
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MaxSkywalker
Gallente
Macabre Votum
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2007.03.26 09:02:00 -
[19]
Get a decent tank
-
Who is this Bob guy anyway?
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Mc Bane
Caldari
DEATH'S LEGION
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Posted - 2007.03.26 09:10:00 -
[20]
My advice is to pirate. I had more but too lazy to typ it all.
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murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2007.03.26 09:27:00 -
[21]
To the OP: the very fact that you're referencing WoW at all is where your problems begin. Forget about WoW or any other MMO as a frame of reference for PVP, especially when concerning Eve. I've PVPed in everything from a 200k SP noob character in a T1 fit frig to multi-billion ISK faction battleships (gotta d something to keep getting that adrenalin rush, ya know?).
I've had long drawn out battles before, like going 4v4, only to have four more guys jump in after we killed the first four, and then four more after that. We nearly ran out of ammo, and were completely dry on cap charges. It was a harrowing hour of solid combat. But those are the exceptions, not the rule. We didn't plan on having such a long fight, we wanted to get in, kill, and get out again.
Eve is like chess, WoW is like checkers. With Eve, 95% of the combat is knowing your enemy and preparing for the attack. If you go into a fight on a level playing field then you've already made a mistake. Sure, it's fun to assault a big group with a lesser force, but if you lose your ships what did you really expect?
When I pirate for ISK I attack with overwhelming force. I want a decisive victory, not the possibility of losing my ship and the ships of my team. Heck, usually it ends up being a fair fight, as I'll attack a single ship myself, have ten of his friends warp in, and then have two or three of my friends jump in to help me.
Point being is that you haven't been at this game long enough to judge it's PVP. Eve has the most involved, most interactive PVP experience in any MMO that I'm aware of, especially if you're not flying a Caldari ship (F1-F8 with no cap/range/tracking/drone management is about as simple as it gets).
I was watching a nature show earlier and saw a cheetah hunting some gazelle. It reminded me *exactly* of how PVP is in Eve. So much so that I called my buddy and asked him if he was watching it. "Yup, carebears and pirates lol" he said. So true.
And just forget WCS. If you plan to run, you've already planned to lose. And as far as WoW low level player being able to run from high level players: in Eve, low level players can KILL high level players, given sufficient brains and planning. That's virtually impossible to pull off in WoW.
Because I said so...
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jizzmonkey
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Posted - 2007.03.26 09:39:00 -
[22]
you just have to find the right fights, i know thats not amazingly helpful...but its true. i normally fly cruisers as i think it has the best balance between 'lastability' and maneuverability. from this iv had 1v1 cruiser fights lasting 5 minutes, cruiser vs bc fights lasting that. just find your niche, but then again, iv been ganked in 5s, killed npcers equally as fast,
the reason i love eve pvp is because it is on going, never ceasing, unless docked.
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Zaqar
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Posted - 2007.03.26 10:10:00 -
[23]
Originally by: murder one
stuff
Nice post.
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murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2007.03.26 10:26:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Zaqar
Originally by: murder one
stuff
Nice post.
TY.
Because I said so...
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George Petsch
Caldari
Thundercats
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.26 10:38:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Deastre
stuff said
Quote:
be advised:
Best PVP != Easy PVP
Everytime you don't fuel your POS
God kills a little blue robot
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kill0rbunny
Chimera Intelligence Agency
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Posted - 2007.03.26 10:56:00 -
[26]
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 26/03/2007 10:53:00
Originally by: Deastre
Buhuuuuu i didn't read the warning message when I went to lowsec and lost my ship. This game suxx.
Fixed it. 
Pew Pew!
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Akane Miyamoto
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.26 11:11:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Akane Miyamoto on 26/03/2007 11:10:11
Originally by: kublai
and to mention WoW in as a positive in a pvp debate...what the hell are you smoking and keep it the **** away from me
/signed
WoW PvP is so boring.. I mean.. There's NO risk in it. Oh wait! YOU MIGHT HAVE TO REPAIR YOUR EQUIPMENT! Oh yeah, that'll really get you the thrill for kill.. "Eep, my equipment gets scratched and I have to repair it ;'("
You honestly can't compare WoW PvP to EVE PvP. They're totally two different beings based on different thoughts. In WoW PvP you have nothing to loose. Nothing. What's the fun in that?
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Brother Funkyshades
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Posted - 2007.03.26 11:12:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Brother Funkyshades on 26/03/2007 11:11:25
well i love eve and its design. but you gotta admit the OP has some sort of point here.
i remember playing GW, where you had this adrenaline rush everytime you entered the arena. and setting up a proper fight was a matter of seconds/minutes.
on the other hand, eve requires hours and hours (if you include skill training you can happily increase this to months/years) of time just to set up your ship/gang, and you can add almost the same amount of timeagain , if youre roaming through lowsec looking for (proper) fights.
BUT:
eve is not just about PVPing in ships in space. eve is just ... a fekkin big... galaxy simulation. if you got two armies fighting each other, you know theres a big logistic operation behind that. diplomatic and economic decisions were made to make that fleet possible.
its not just about getting 100 people online that enter the warzone/the tournament. imagine what WoW would look like if you had to craft every item again, after a warrior is defeated. you cant simulate real wars, if theres no supply lines to be broken, ya kno.
thats why eve is da real pvp. coz pvp is a lot more than just your little fights.
and for me this results in helluva nasty adrenaline rushes.
strangely enough, stronger than when playing paintball...
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Akane Miyamoto
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.26 11:16:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Brother Funkyshades
i remember playing GW, where you had this adrenaline rush everytime you entered the arena. and setting up a proper fight was a matter of seconds/minutes.
I get that in EVE when I engage fights severely underhanded 
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Skybar
Minmatar
Zephyr Manufacturing Group
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.26 11:36:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Skybar on 26/03/2007 11:32:52
If it all was about the fighting, there are several other games that do this better and focus on it. I.e. Quake / Unreal and other action type of games.
Almost every little bit in Eve is PvP, from that newbie miner who mine the veldspar, giving it to a recycler who gives it to a trader who gives it to a cap-ship builder who build the biggest friggin ship you've ever seen who then go out smashing POS's to conquer the most favorable areas in the game...
It's competition in the whole line, involving every type of player.
And of course, pretty much everything mentioned before me.
But yes I also agree with the OP, sometimes it just feels stupid that it can take me several hours just to fit a ship, and loose it in seconds. However, if that happens... I'm doing something wrong.
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