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PI Tool1
Zemmpfff Inc.
0
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Posted - 2016.10.26 21:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
hi all/CCP, first off, if this is the wrong forum, please move it.
i just painstakingly added 24 systems as per this list https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/203209712-Rookie-Griefing to my systems avoidance list manually. i am an aspirant PVPer/troll, the kind that invites people into a convo after ganking their MTU in hisec.
would it not be a good idea to set this up as a function within autopilot settings, character creation, tutorial or whatever else useful point in the game-flow that is easy to implement without big code-changes for CCP? it should be linked up to the thread/list of rookie/career-agent systems kept by CCP and auto-update from that via the launcher.
Basically, just a tickbox in an appropriate place that says something along the lines of "would you like to avoid rookie systems where the banhammer comes down if you're naughty to others? not ticking this box enables space-d**k-mode, at your own risk".
that tickbox would add all those systems to the avoidance list and set the autopilot-settings to avoid the avoidance-list.
that would keep people from doing bannable eve gameplay to rookies inadvertently and AFAIK if you set your destination to a system in your avoidance-list, you get taken there regardless of AP-settings. (correct me if i'm wrong) so control of the feature would remain with the player whilst giving single-click safety to the people that are after trolling people without being real space-d***s, AKA really griefing rookies.
KR PI |
Paranoid Loyd
9745
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Posted - 2016.10.26 21:35:25 -
[2] - Quote
How about you just use some common sense? If you can't do that how about you just avoid plying your trade in 1.0 systems?
"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix
Fix the Prospect!
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PI Tool1
Zemmpfff Inc.
0
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Posted - 2016.10.26 21:43:19 -
[3] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:How about you just use some common sense? If you can't do that how about you just avoid plying your trade in 1.0 systems?
i am just below the sec status to get into 1.0 anyway. AFAIK there is no AP setting for staying out of only a specific secstatus like 1.0, but still go to 0.9, in my case, that also ensures not going into rookie systems in the process. i didn't double-check to be honest, are ALL of those 24 systems 1.0? that is why i went through the pain of adding those systems to begin with.
all i was saying some people might get into sticky situations that really don't intend to, and would it not be nice to give ppl the single-click choice, rather than having them go through 5 minutes of copy/paste hell to be on the safe side.
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
4506
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Posted - 2016.10.26 22:08:57 -
[4] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:How about you just use some common sense? If you can't do that how about you just avoid plying your trade in 1.0 systems? That isn't common sense, it's stupid. There's orders of magnitude more 1.0 systems than there are rookie systems and there are rookie systems that aren't 1.0 systems. Doing this would not solve any problem.
Also this thread is in the wrong subforum. |
Paranoid Loyd
9745
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Posted - 2016.10.26 22:16:30 -
[5] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:How about you just use some common sense? If you can't do that how about you just avoid plying your trade in 1.0 systems? That isn't common sense, it's stupid. There's orders of magnitude more 1.0 systems than there are rookie systems and there are rookie systems that aren't 1.0 systems. Doing this would not solve any problem. Also this thread is in the wrong subforum. I guess the logic here is I haven't ever found myself missioning in a 1.0 system, the last time I remember doing so I was a rookie, I suppose I don't mission all that much though.
To clarify that's not what I was implying was common sense, avoiding 1.0 systems was the alternative to using common sense. I was implying that anyone who is doing this would at least look at the info on the player before engaging, if they are doing this then it should be really obvious whether or not someone is a rookie and is protected by this policy. While the policy defines specifc systems it does not specifically protect everyone in those systems, just rookies.
"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix
Fix the Prospect!
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PI Tool1
Zemmpfff Inc.
0
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Posted - 2016.10.26 22:28:03 -
[6] - Quote
[quote= anyone who is doing this would at least look at the info on the player before engaging [/quote] to this i get to quote that most epic of posts that is https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=491023:
* Just because some character is just a few minutes old doesn't mean he's a newbie. Many people have alts. The reverse is also possible, people come back after very long breaks, and characters are sold. You could see year-old newbies around too.
the essence of my OP is that i dont want to be a space-d**k, but i am too lazy to re-read the list everytime i scan an MTU. is that so wrong? also, i don't know how to quote just a portion of a post, sorry. |
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri
New Order Logistics CODE.
589
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Posted - 2016.10.26 22:36:55 -
[7] - Quote
A UI change to assist a marginal part of a playerbase in a very specific activity? Sorry, not gonna happen. I'm just being objective here. |
Paranoid Loyd
9745
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Posted - 2016.10.26 22:51:57 -
[8] - Quote
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri wrote:A UI change to assist a marginal part of a playerbase in a very specific activity? Sorry, not gonna happen. I'm just being objective here. Yeah I guess I should have just said this and been done with it instead of trying to offer alternatives.
PI Tool1 wrote:also, i don't know how to quote just a portion of a post, sorry. You're just missing the right bracket after the "quote="
The part you quoted actually proves my point about relying on common sense instead of trying to turn something that is so many shades of gray into black and white.
"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix
Fix the Prospect!
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PI Tool1
Zemmpfff Inc.
0
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Posted - 2016.10.26 23:03:50 -
[9] - Quote
ok lets try some quoting then :)
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri wrote:A UI change to assist a marginal part of a playerbase in a very specific activity? Sorry, not gonna happen. I'm just being objective here. i came here for opinions, so i appreciate this, while i'm not quite sure still that not commiting bannable offenses on real newbies should be marginalized.
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Yeah I guess I should have just said this and been done with it instead of trying to offer alternatives. point taken, but see above.
Paranoid Loyd wrote:PI Tool1 wrote:also, i don't know how to quote just a portion of a post, sorry. You're just missing the right bracket after the "quote=" did i get it right?
Paranoid Loyd wrote:The part you quoted actually proves my point about relying on common sense instead of trying to turn something that is so many shades of gray into black and white. the part i was on about is actually pure black and white, does anyone here oppose making real newbie griefing in the rookie-system-sense as per the list harder? i propose making it easier-to use.
edit: ...as per the list harder? i propose making it easier-to use. |
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
1895
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Posted - 2016.10.27 00:44:28 -
[10] - Quote
AFAIK there are only 8 rookie/starter systems, plus the Sisters Epic Arc systems, where ...um.....'bad touching' is prohibited.
Just write them down on a sticky note and stick it to your monitor.
Rookie systems are usually pretty obvious anyway.......if you hit d-scan and see tons of noob ships in space.......odds are you are in a rookie sysem.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
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Saeger1737
Bite the pillow Archetype.
1826
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Posted - 2016.10.27 02:34:39 -
[11] - Quote
Mike Adoulin wrote:AFAIK there are only 8 rookie/starter systems, plus the Sisters Epic Arc systems, where ...um.....'bad touching' is prohibited.
Just write them down on a sticky note and stick it to your monitor.
Rookie systems are usually pretty obvious anyway.......if you hit d-scan and see tons of noob ships in space.......odds are you are in a rookie sysem.
Or your in uedama during code ops
MERC WITH A MOUTH, Send me DPS and my fleet will double it back! Special offer!
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Bagatur I
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
79
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Posted - 2016.10.27 11:39:09 -
[12] - Quote
PI Tool1 wrote: the essence of my OP is that i dont want to be a space-d**k, but i am too lazy to re-read the list everytime i scan an MTU. is that so wrong?
you want to kill MTU's, but you dont want to be a space-duck? you are a space-duck, whether you bait a noob or not, to attack you for destroying their MTU. in this aspect, it doesn really matter whether it is an EVE noob, who has little understanding of the game in general, or an experienced mission runner, who generally has no idea about PvP aspects of the game. I doubt either thinks that they can attack anyone without them fighting back. I am sure both think they could kill you in their bigger ship, or they wouldnt have attacked you in the first place.
and just be honest with us in CP - if there was no rule about griefing in noob systems, you wouldnt be asking this question. |
PI Tool1
Zemmpfff Inc.
0
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Posted - 2016.10.27 18:32:12 -
[13] - Quote
Bagatur I wrote:in this aspect, it doesn really matter whether it is an EVE noob, who has little understanding of the game in general, or an experienced mission runner, who generally has no idea about PvP aspects of the game.
there is a huge difference. doing it to players old and new who are outside of those 24 systems (@mike adoulin: i used to have a post-it with damage-types, i want to stop having post-its) is normal, encouraged gameplay, within those systems it becomes abannable offense and rightfully so imo.
Bagatur I wrote: and just be honest with us in CP - if there was no rule about griefing in noob systems, you wouldnt be asking this question.
i cannot honestly say complete no on that. the best times is when the tears come to enjoy them for a bit, then try to inform them what they could've done to prevent it. sometimes they listen and if they do, they normally come away happy and with some very basic tips, courtesy of the 8 golden rules, uni-wiki et al.
mainly this is about avoiding the ban and honestly, i can't see much fun in doing it to people so new that they may not have seen me on their overview because they removed player-ships by mistake or something. i'm going for those experienced enough to run missions to make MTU drops worth-while for me, while still being stupid enough to shoot a yellow thorax in a mission-BS with rails on.
having-re-read the site, does this:
" Disregarding warnings to cease such behavior from authorized CCP personnel is considered to be in violation of section 6 of the Terms of Service. Any player who violates the Terms of Service may be subject to disciplinary action."
mean an actual CCP or ISD will convo or email me to stop doing it before handing out temporary bans and such?
edit: and saeger: thanks for pointing that out #micdrop :) |
Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
85
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Posted - 2016.10.27 18:38:11 -
[14] - Quote
Excuse me, but I am a space duck.
Anyway, I think trying to avoid even passing through those systems will cause much more headache than just writing them down. It's only like 3-4 systems per empire, I've more or less memorized them by now.
Good luck and keep up the good work o/ I'm off to kill more retrievers in Arnon.
(I must reiterate that it's not 24 systems but only like 12) |
PI Tool1
Zemmpfff Inc.
0
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Posted - 2016.10.27 18:52:38 -
[15] - Quote
Galaxy Duck wrote:(I must reiterate that it's not 24 systems but only like 12)
https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/203209712-Rookie-Griefing
looks like 4x3 starter and another 4x3 career... |
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
7244
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Posted - 2016.10.27 22:56:15 -
[16] - Quote
Thread has been moved to Player Features and Ideas Discussion.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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PopeUrban
El Expedicion Flames of Exile
170
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Posted - 2016.10.28 01:17:37 -
[17] - Quote
Alternately, CCP could just force safeties to green in rookie systems.
It is inadequately messaged to players that aggression/criminal actions against players are forbidden in these systems, and mechanically there is nothing preventing this from happening.
I feel this is a problem that is sure to cause some headaches on Nov 8th when a lot of people unfamiliar with playing EVE, but familiar with the spooky internet legend of "everything is allowed in EVE" will unknowingly and repeatedly violate an important rule that the game itself does nothing to explain to them, and cause a lot of headaches for GMs in the process.
Or better yet, just move all the rookie systems off the normal server cluster entirely and establish a "newbie island" which kicks players out at a certain SP breakpoint or something. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
10784
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Posted - 2016.10.28 03:15:28 -
[18] - Quote
PopeUrban wrote:Alternately, CCP could just force safeties to green in rookie systems.
It is inadequately messaged to players that aggression/criminal actions against players are forbidden in these systems, and mechanically there is nothing preventing this from happening. It should be noted that attacking players that are not rookies in rookie systems is generally allowed. After all... rookie systems are simply spawning points for new players... but are otherwise part of the larger ecosystem of EVE.
I know of some industry minded people who ply their trade and squirrel away stuff in rookie systems under the (correct) assumption that most players will be too afraid to test the strictness of the rules. Or create newbie alts to transport stuff around rookie areas so that they can make petitions against any would-be aggressors.
PopeUrban wrote:Or better yet, just move all the rookie systems off the normal server cluster entirely and establish a "newbie island" which kicks players out at a certain SP breakpoint or something. The more I think about this, the more I see it as a good idea.
Then again... you do not truly "learn" anything about EVE until you encounter your first "unfair situation." Mine was getting War-Decced and exploded in a gatecamp when I barely had 3 million SP to my name. That situation forced me to get smart about what capabilities I had and how to adapt... something that has helped me far more in this game than any amount of Skillpoints.
How did you Veterans start?
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Viktor Archangel
Conoco. Caldari Armed Forces.
3
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Posted - 2016.10.28 05:14:08 -
[19] - Quote
How about we just go a step farther and disable switching to yellow or red settings in rookie systems?
You get warned and then banned for doing things that yellow and red settings require. So why even give the option? |
PI Tool1
Zemmpfff Inc.
0
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Posted - 2016.10.28 17:25:21 -
[20] - Quote
PopeUrban wrote:Alternately, CCP could just force safeties to green in rookie systems.
that would be shooting the bazooka at the kids in the lawn, funny, but not helpful in teaching them to stay off it. the idea is that if you chose to be criminal, you live with the repercussions. concord in HS, concord+temporary ban in rookie systems. forcing green safety would only breed tons of rookies who petition every single time they get killed in HS afterwards.
the idea that you're in danger once you undock IS eve to me, and i think a lot of others as well.
PopeUrban wrote:Or better yet, just move all the rookie systems off the normal server cluster entirely and establish a "newbie island" which kicks players out at a certain SP breakpoint or something.
same as above, sort of. I say the "one cluster for all but the asians" is a core principle of eve that should be in their heads at all times from the first time they stop playing with their boob-size in the character creator. if they ever get past that point :D
ShahFluffers wrote: Then again... you do not truly "learn" anything about EVE until you encounter your first "unfair situation." Mine was getting War-Decced and exploded in a gatecamp when I barely had 3 million SP to my name. That situation forced me to get smart about what capabilities I had and how to adapt... something that has helped me far more in this game than any amount of Skillpoints.
quoted for summing it up nicely there, shah.
edit: clarified the boob-bit |
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PopeUrban
El Expedicion Flames of Exile
176
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Posted - 2016.10.28 22:10:13 -
[21] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote: Then again... you do not truly "learn" anything about EVE until you encounter your first "unfair situation." Mine was getting War-Decced and exploded in a gatecamp when I barely had 3 million SP to my name. That situation forced me to get smart about what capabilities I had and how to adapt... something that has helped me far more in this game than any amount of Skillpoints.
Wanted to touch on this because I think its a valuable point.
However, it is at odds with the existing policy in rookie systems, that not only says "don't mess with new guys" but gives a very hazy definition of what "new" means.
I played another player-empire-centric game for a while that used the newbie island idea efficiently called shadowbane, which basically started everyone in a pve fairlyland with pvp disabled, but had really ****** resources to exploit and kicked people out at a certain level.
The approach worked quite well. It gave newbies an opportunity to get familiar with the basic systems of the game, and messaged very clearly when it was getting close to kicking them out that they should steel themselves for a much larger and more dangerous world, and suggested they think about starting to find help.
And really, I think that's the purpose of newbie systems in a nutshell, get new players familiar with the very basics of the interface and controls. Putting the new NPE in such a "sharded off" area would work really well because it has a clear narrative for them, explains basic concepts, and still offers some freedom to explore mechanics at your own pace before you finish the last site and get podded to finish it. Then maybe you pick a career agent to visit and you're in new eden with all its ups and downs. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
45247
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Posted - 2016.10.28 22:47:31 -
[22] - Quote
PopeUrban wrote:Alternately, CCP could just force safeties to green in rookie systems.
It is inadequately messaged to players that aggression/criminal actions against players are forbidden in these systems, and mechanically there is nothing preventing this from happening. That would be a bad move in my opinion as protection is only afforded to new players in rookie systems, not to all players.
It's still perfectly fine to the OP to engage older players in rookie systems and the SOE epic arc systems.
Older players don't need and shouldn't expect to have systems that provide almost total safety.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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