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Achur	Posted - 2007.04.02 17:26:00 - [121] Originally by: Ki An The last one is already in the game. Every dec the corp already has against it increases the cost of deccing it by a factor of two (I believe). Say three corps decc you. The first would pay 2 mil, the second 4 mil and the third 8 mil. (I am not certain of the figures here, but it's something like this.) That seems like a good start, but I think it could be improved upon. Even simple factors such as the size of a corp should come into play. It may not cost much to declar on a 1 man corp, but a 100 person corp could cost more. There are lots of good factors that could be brought into play to make it a more dynamic and meaningful system. Originally by: Ki An As for raising the cost of war, I'm going to have to disagree, and it's not because it would hinder my playstyle at all. I don't think war should be a class issue, and something only rich characters/corps can afford. If I where to create a new character I should be able to declare war at once if I can scrounge together the measly cost. I don't see this as the difference between costing billions versus nothing. The way it is right now, though - as you've stated - it costs a measly amount. It should cost something meaningful. The economy in Eve has grown significantly in the last few years and the cost of wars remeained steady. As time goes on, the cost of war becomes less and less meaningful. We've gotten to the point where 1 lonely whack job can grief a corp for pretty much no cost. The cost should be enough so that people actually think about it. If you're a single player looking to pick on people, go to low-sec or 0.0 - this isn't what empire wars are for. If you're a BIG corp with loads of money, even you should have to think about the cost enough to consider "yes. This costs us ISK and this is how we choose to spend our ISK" rather than the current "I looked under my couch and found some change.. war!". An increase in cost would not limit this to only the super elite, it would just give empire wars a little more meaning. Originally by: Ki An Another point to be made here is that the Privateers wouldn't really suffer that much from an increased war cost (I am assuming this argument really is about the Privateers since... well... since all issues regarding Empire wars have been about the Privateers as of late) as they have quite deep pockets and could easily afford it. Instead it would, as I've noted, affect young corps, and that's not really the point, is it? My comments actually have nothing to do with Privateers. Big alliances with deep pockets certainly should be able to afford a big war bill. But even in the Privateer scenario, the increased cost of war would flow downhill and small corps joining that alliance would then be forced to think about it... "is the cost worth it"?
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.04.02 17:30:00 - [122] Originally by: Reraise My last post directed at you Ki An on this subject. The last time we were decced by a more powerful corp was actually a typo (they wanted to fight Corp A, and we were called Corp A Inc.) We fought this until my corp was broke, talked to them and got told they would end the war if we payed for all their lost ships (they were fighting against 4 other corps at the time and we could not cover this loss as we couldnt earn any isk due to camping, so the war went on until we had to break the corp.) We lost 3 players who quit the game over this, after playing for a year (most had 2 accounts, thats a fair sum of cash ccp lost out on there) :(. That really sucks. I've heard about such things happening, but I'd like to think that most "honorable" corps would end the war quickly and even pay for the inconvenience. However, I am not one to say how people should or should not play the game. Just know that I don't agree to such actions myself, and I would hate for that to happen to me. Originally by: Reraise We dont use local chat, no carebear smacktalk in it, we hate it (which actually brings me to another point about war decs im going to float here). You jump into a system and immediately know if someone your at war with is in it due to...local chat. Id love it if you could leave the chat (and if you can...i have no idea how). It makes no sense to me that your forced into a local chat channel that people can use to find you. Takes all of the skill out of tracking. Pay an agent to find you then go there, and use skills (probing) to find if a player is there, not just scroll down local chat until you see a red blip. Makes no RP sense at all. This I COMPLETELY agree with. I was under the impression that CCP would strive to get rid of local chat eventually, and instead Kali comes along and BOOSTS the damned thing. I still have hopes that it will be removed in the future in some way. And, someone was asking for RP justification for wars. As I am just a grunt, I leave the political RP up to my CEO, but he's got quite the tounge on him, and his stories are good. I give you the complete history of The Really Awesome Players. (Click to the last page to start from the beginning.) /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.04.02 17:34:00 - [123] Originally by: Achur My comments actually have nothing to do with Privateers. Big alliances with deep pockets certainly should be able to afford a big war bill. But even in the Privateer scenario, the increased cost of war would flow downhill and small corps joining that alliance would then be forced to think about it... "is the cost worth it"? That was more or less my point. This change would hit the little guy, and not the one's that really matter. And, as for cost of war, I'd like to think that assessing the "cost" would have more to do with "can we afford to loose this or that many ships?". I think that people should just learn to fight back, or hire someone to do it for them. In my view, no industrial corp is truly worthy of survival if it can't look after it's own members safety. /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Reraise	Posted - 2007.04.02 17:38:00 - [124] Local chat is my biggest gripe with Wardecs. without local chat, it would at least mean you could try to run and (if that was your descision). This would make it more fun for the persuers "look lads, we have a chase" and also give the rabbit a chance at freedom. I believe that locat chat is one of the biggest causes of station camping. Its far to easy to just check your agent, go there..see them in local and canvas the stations. In lowsec space, soon as someone sees another person appear in local they leave. So in one way its destroying PVP in .4 and below space (which is where i feel the majority of pvp should happen). Whats the point in covert ops ships if you cant sneak up on anyone due to the bloody chat channel :)
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.04.02 17:40:00 - [125] Question for you Ki An. And no, its not an attack Why is it that a Corp can enter into an alliance with a Alliance that is at war, but a Corp cannot start an alliance while THEY are at war? Seems a little unfair to me that you cannot enlist help and pull like-minded corps together to fight a common threat. This happened to my alt's corp. We were struggling and working hard to generate the cash to start a small alliance and carve out a small piece of our own place when we got wardecced by a small 2 person corp. We kicked the snot out of them every time they actually tried to fight (rather than running and doing corp-drop tactics to try to gank us), but it held up the alliance for 3 weeks because "A CEO cannot declare an alliance while their corp is under a war declaration". By the time they finally agreed to negotiate for unknown slights the prospective alliance had broke apart as the other corps had gone on to other things and almost half of hte corp had left to form other corps where 2 people couldn't stop their plans from going forward. So again, how come an alliance can have corps come and go while at war at will, while a corp cannot form or declare an alliance? <-----------> Keiron: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=427556&page=2 PvE and/or PvP is not something that appeals to the entire player base
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.04.02 17:45:00 - [126] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Question for you Ki An. And no, its not an attack Why is it that a Corp can enter into an alliance with a Alliance that is at war, but a Corp cannot start an alliance while THEY are at war? Seems a little unfair to me that you cannot enlist help and pull like-minded corps together to fight a common threat. Good question, and one to which I have no answer. I can only imagine some sort of exploitive scenario has come up/been dreamed up by a dev, or it is simply an oversight from CCP. Personally I can't see a point to the rule. /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Arianna Argaron	Posted - 2007.04.26 12:26:00 - [127] Does anyone know if there are actual CCP rules of conduct for war and the legallity of it and where i could fine them? Regards Arianna
SiJira	Posted - 2007.04.26 16:59:00 - [128] Originally by: Arianna Argaron Does anyone know if there are actual CCP rules of conduct for war and the legallity of it and where i could fine them? Regards Arianna rules? make war dec pay price wait 24 hours pew pew not much else to it
Gort Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.04.26 20:24:00 - [129] Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 30/03/2007 15:03:59 Originally by: Spaceman Jack I guess im saying I just does not feel special, it just feel like CounterStrike now and I can play that for free Im very sorry you dont feel special. Sometimes I feel like I would like to make a trade run out into Alliance held 0.0 space with my Alt, and guess what. They have a NBSI policy and I get destoryed if they spot me. Or perhaps I would like to go to a notorius low sec pirate system and belt rat. Oh look, the pirates wont let me. They dont offer 'holidays' of the sort you are talking about. Its all year danger. Well with the coming of the Privatter Alliance, empire space is now the same as the rest of the universe. We have brought Parity, not upset the balance. SKUNK "ganking afk haulers since 2006" I don't buy your points for a second. Regards, There is no "g" in whine. There is no "g" in whiner. There is no "g" in whining. This is a whing.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.04.26 20:38:00 - [130] Originally by: djenghis jan Empire war is kind of a blunt intsrument at the moment. A single corp can wardec an alliance for 50 mil and herras them in empire. Corps doing this often have tricks that a variations on the theme, scout with alt, IF enemy is weak THEN gank ELSE dock. Now if we compare this situation to 0.0 we see that in the case of an empire war attackers have three major advantages over defenders: I) The attacker can dock anywhere to resuply, refit and repair. II) The attacker can use neutrals to scout enemy fleets. III) There is no need for conquest to keep up the war. Considering the amount of effort CCP invested into 0.0 warfare, can we expect that empire wars will get a strategic (or even tactical) element? Or maybe Empire is not supposed to be a warzone I could see no reason for Empire wars except for high sec griefing. If people want pure PVP, they go to 0.0. All PVPers are in 0.0. High-sec or low-sec Empire PVP in my humble opinion is and should be consensual PVP. How is that for your thought? --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Arianna Argaron	Posted - 2007.04.26 22:19:00 - [131] I completely agree jenny....war in Emprie should be consensual ...whats the point of safe space and concord if there are gonna be war's here there and everywhere Thats why i need to know if there are any rules of war when it comes to empire space and can a war dec be canceled for some reason by a corp who dont want to fight Regards Arianna
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.04.26 22:23:00 - [132] Originally by: Arianna Argaron Thats why i need to know if there are any rules of war when it comes to empire space and can a war dec be canceled for some reason by a corp who dont want to fight No rules of war. The corp being decced has a couple of options: Negotiate, Disband, Fight, Die. <-----------> Keiron: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=427556&page=2 PvE and/or PvP is not something that appeals to the entire player base
jinjania	Posted - 2007.10.21 14:42:00 - [133] Ki An says; Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! 'viscous' as in thick and slow moving?
citizen amarr33sd3g4	Posted - 2007.10.21 15:19:00 - [134] They are a tool to remind players that they can do 95% of the things they try to do in player corps within NPC corps.
Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.21 15:49:00 - [135] I think what you meant to say was: Empire wars are awesome. Please stop changing them. Rifter Flight Manual!
Valran S.H.I.E.L.D Co.	Posted - 2007.10.21 16:29:00 - [136] Originally by: Bahk Naar Empire wars in their current form (along with general high sec griefing) is one of THE worst parts of eve. It will also likely be the reason I end up quitting Eve. They cost next to nothing and are nothing more than griefing, as they allow one side to choose to ruin the enjoyment of the game for another side. Everyone derives enjoyment from this game in different ways. There are lots of different play styles. The way current wars work though eliminates all other playstyles and replaces them with direct pew pew pvp. You either have to fight or you don't get to play. Does that really embrace the whole "differnt playstyle" thing? NO! If I wanted to be open to direct pvp all the time, I'd move to low-sec or 0.0. What makes this even worse is that there really are marginal barriers to entry. High-sec wars cost next to nothing. This makes it even easier pirates to flat out ruin the gaming experience for players who are not interested in direct pew pew pvp. CCP really does just cater to the pirates and griefers. They've said it's a PvP game. Sure, I understand the concept of market interaction, miners selling minerals etc. But the current war system makes it easy for anyone to either force you to do direct pew pew pvp or don't play at all. On the surface it seems like Eve has a great indirect pvp game-play (I call this PvE). But the longer I stick with this game, the more I realize that CCP only cares about direct pvp and is perfectly happy to let the PvE players have their game play ruined. And to those of you who say "it's a pvp game" or "go to an npc corp" or "quit eve then, can I have your stuff".... those comments are ignorant and narrow minded. Why? Because I'm not the only one who feels this way. CCP wants $$ through subs and with the current unbalance in how PvE players are allowed to play the game, there is a real risk of losing a lot of $$ through the lose of subs. We'll put up with it now and then, but the worse this game gets for griefing, the greater risk CCP is at. Ya, I'm tired and grumpy today, so there's my rant. That's like saying that in football the teams should not be allowed to score goals becuase it ruines the other sides enjoyment of the game. Like the footbal game, all players know the rules of the game before they decide to play. Empire war in my oppinion is a fantastic addition to eve. If you really dont like it, join a NPC corp. ------------------------------------------ S.H.I.E.L.D Co. Space, Haulage, Interstellar Exploration & Logistical Distribution.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.10.21 17:03:00 - [137] Necoro Alert No need to bring up old whines - CCP already caved in SKUNK

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