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Elgar Lightfoot
Lightfoot Industries
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Posted - 2007.03.29 06:22:00 -
[1]
Simply put, there are skills and fittings in the game specifically designed to prevent players from warping away. By allowing players to exploit the flight dynamics and constantly bump into other ships to prevent them from warping is invalidating those skills.
In my oppinion bumping = exploiting a game dynamic and should be a bannable offence when used for that purpose. However a very simple fix would to be to auto warp after a set time.
*Snip for trolling - Timmeh* - 27/3/07 My first mod edit. |
Aero089
Exiled.
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Posted - 2007.03.29 06:27:00 -
[2]
It's all part of the downsides of flying bigger ships. I just feel that the mass of some things need to be changed because Carriers can't warp when there are (light!) drones orbiting it.
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Elgar Lightfoot
Lightfoot Industries
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Posted - 2007.03.29 06:31:00 -
[3]
I don't actually think ships should be able to 'bump' each other at all. With the mass of these things they'd destroy each other if they really did collide. But the point of the post was to draw the attention of CCP to a game exploit.
Why bother training up to use Scramblers, when all you need to a fast ship to run into them?
*Snip for trolling - Timmeh* - 27/3/07 My first mod edit. |
Alski
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.29 06:32:00 -
[4]
I personally think its lame and generally agree with your post (not so sure about the getting banned for it part, but it should be fixed), but i expect a load of "hardcore forum warriors" will disagree.
Considering how often we all see ships exiting warp sideways, or even ( ) upside down, back to fount or whatever, it is rather immersion breaking.
That all said, how can we, let alone the GMs differentiate between deliberate bumpage and another ship just happening to be in our path or trying to approach but not being able to get into orbit because of lag or excessive speed?
I don't actually expect this to change… ever, tbh because Eve's physics model just sucks when it comes to object collisions - which is fine - because I'm sure its for reasons of preventing excessive processing overhead. *shrugs*
In short, I'm 99% sure we're just gonna have to deal with it as it is now, forever.
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Elgar Lightfoot
Lightfoot Industries
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Posted - 2007.03.29 06:36:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Alski
That all said, how can we, let alone the GMs differentiate between deliberate bumpage and another ship just happening to be in our path or trying to approach but not being able to get into orbit because of lag or excessive speed?
I agree and this is why it needs to be a hard coded fix by CCP. They can't really ban for it as theres no defininitive method of telling it was intentional.
Once a ship initiates warp it should perform it's allignment and then warp. The time should not be altered by any other ship collision.
*Snip for trolling - Timmeh* - 27/3/07 My first mod edit. |
Alski
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.29 06:39:00 -
[6]
Ahhh ok I see what ya saying, once we are in "pre-warp" just fix it so bumping stops the ship from being thrown of course, yup, I'll /sign that. 
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Tonkin
Black Lance
NBSI Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.29 07:12:00 -
[7]
i love the bump. but it would be awful if they took that off and damage was introduce if we collide, lol there be no fleet fights due to the fleets killing them selfs.
DONATE ISK TO ME |
Ephemeron
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.29 07:20:00 -
[8]
Bumping space ships is indeed lame from common sense point of view. But if you suspend common sense, the game mechanic it provides is actually interesting and fun. It adds more to tactical aspect of combat.
It's a nice alternative to warp scramblers. Bumping is often used to get people out of gate jump range. The mechanics of sitting at jump range, de-aggressing and jumping are just as lame as bumping. So the two lame tactics sort of cancel each other out.
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Izzy Pol
Fear and Loathing in LoneTrek
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Posted - 2007.03.29 07:25:00 -
[9]
In my opinion its not lame or an exploit. Can we agree to disagree?
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2007.03.29 08:11:00 -
[10]
As long as scrams will keep working the way they currently do (eg. if one is activated before you reach the 75% of max speed needed to warp, you stop initiating warp), im all for it.
They'd need to introduce capital webbers and scrammers though, that DO work on moms and titans.
Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly
Radio is essential for Amarr, to call the much needed backup...
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XerZex
Puppets on Steroids
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Posted - 2007.03.29 08:27:00 -
[11]
another "nerf this because i die when pirate bump0rz me".
stuff please.
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Davlos
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.03.29 08:33:00 -
[12]
Nothing wrong with bumping as it stands right now. It's a valid tactical option when
a) Target is using WCS
b) Whacking capships
Seen plenty of haulers that fit stabs, smacked on local and taunting others for it and got their arses burnt in the end.
Excerpt from Yuki Li's bio:
Quote:
Runiorto > don't even try :)
Yuki Li > stabbed up? :p
Runiorto > ye)
Runiorto > stop plz
Yuki Li > what for? :/
Runiorto > stop
Runiorto > i'll pay you
Besides. Exploitation of flight dynamics? Wth is up with that? It's like whining about being shot at because "ballistics dynamics were being unfair" and the shooter was exploiting it to shoot in a straight line.
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
Riggers Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.03.29 08:41:00 -
[13]
I don't mind bumping or the reasons behind it. A ship can't go to warp, if if will hit an object.. self preservation. But they should correct the dynamic, so small ships have a lot harder time doing it against bigger ships.
A BS bumping another BS is ok, even a cruiser should do it.
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Kazuma Saruwatari
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Posted - 2007.03.29 09:11:00 -
[14]
Being warp scrambled by an enemy and thus popping = fair
Being bumped/blocked whilst trying to MWD away from scramble range cause enemy forgot to fit a web = lame.
being bumped out of alignment just to stop you from warping without a proper scrambler = even more lame.
Seriously, if you're going to stop someone from warping/running away, fit proper tackle equipment. Bumping someone to stop him from aligning without properly locking him down with counters already provided for by CCP is just lame on a level that borders on brain-death.
Fit some goddamed tackling mods and do it right for once.
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NPC Vendetta system, Local rehash, Probe decoys |
Aphotic Raven
Gallente
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.03.29 09:24:00 -
[15]
Worst whine thread i've ever ever seen.
Its like the op isn't even trying...
This cant be fixed cos it isnt broken.
Did you get splattered recently after being bumped?
Bumping should be Bannable... Its a shame stupidity is not a bannable of offense imo.
You seriously need at least 40% more tears and screaming before anyone will take your whine seriously.
Originally by: Dr Cupid
Let me tell you all that I'm really enjoying eve-beta, and can't wait for the real game to come out!
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Heretic Seven
Gallente
Southern Cross Incorporated
Pure.
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Posted - 2007.03.29 09:31:00 -
[16]
Bumping is not exploiting a game mechanic in my opinion. This is Zero-G space and when a huge object of over 1000km^2 in volume collides with anothor ship there is no other explantion other then force applies "bumps" it.
Taking damage from collisions would be even more "exploiting" because people would get all their members to fly shuttles into your titan untill it died.
Simply put bumping makes sense and is a tactic that helps interceptors and other faster moving ships.
I am impartial to Victory! |
Astorothe
Steel Frontier
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.29 09:36:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Astorothe on 29/03/2007 09:32:09
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Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2007.03.29 10:13:00 -
[18]
It would be nice if you could actually block the path of a ship trying to enter warp with an equal sized or larger ship (or perhaps equivalent mass of ships), such that it's warp in that direction is cancelled.
It wouldn't actually be that easy to do, given once (for example) a Battleship starts aligning, you'd have 10-15 seconds to position yourself in the way, plus they could always try initiating a warp in another direction...
Bumping just looks stupid, and its immersion breaking seeing the ships act like billiard balls.
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Video - 'War-Machine' |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.29 11:11:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Alski
Ahhh ok I see what ya saying, once we are in "pre-warp" just fix it so bumping stops the ship from being thrown of course, yup, I'll /sign that.
/Signed
Exploit or not, that's for CCP to decide.
-AS |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.03.29 11:15:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot
I don't actually think ships should be able to 'bump' each other at all. With the mass of these things they'd destroy each other if they really did collide. But the point of the post was to draw the attention of CCP to a game exploit.
Why bother training up to use Scramblers, when all you need to a fast ship to run into them?
It's the inertial stabilizers of your ship reacting to the proximity of the incoming ship and moves it out of the way to avoid the collision.
Btw if you think it's so easy to bump someone to keep them from warping why don't you try it some time. I'll bet you 100m isk that you will fail to keep it from warping. Bumping is not as easy as you make it sound.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Wild Rho
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2007.03.29 11:24:00 -
[21]
Bumping in it's current form is necessary because of how some fairly basic things bring ships into close proximity without the players control (docking/undocking at busy stations, gang warping).
Making it flaggable can lead to all sorts of abuse such as leaving alts in frigates outside of stations for undockers to crash into triggering concord etc.
The same applies to damage from bumping (nagivating Jita 4-4 would be suicide for example) since it would allow people to kill in high sec without being flagged (simply ram the target in a tanked ship or two).
The current system isn't perfect but it works and is necessary for Eves current mechanics since the room for abuse is minimal.
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Murik Vherok
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Posted - 2007.03.29 11:50:00 -
[22]
of course it should b aloud comen sence
if u r aligned and rdy to warp and somthing bumps u out of u r alignment so u cant warp then tough its just like ramming a ammard car of the road b4 it try's to get away then 1nce the ammard car is a wreck u get the cash
so y all the crieying about beeing bunped just comen sence to me
so far i been in this game a year and all the gad damn whiner'ss r spoiling the game y not try to learn to adapt instead having ccp making EvE all warm and fussy for u with the nerf bat u whiuniging****s me me sick deal with stuf and stop complaining
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The Rincewind
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Posted - 2007.03.29 11:57:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot
Simply put, there are skills and fittings in the game specifically designed to prevent players from warping away. By allowing players to exploit the flight dynamics and constantly bump into other ships to prevent them from warping is invalidating those skills.
In my oppinion bumping = exploiting a game dynamic and should be a bannable offence when used for that purpose. However a very simple fix would to be to auto warp after a set time.
Why, did u lost a Mothership? :D
Onliest way to get them down is bumping and it¦s just fair.
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Delylah Samson
Amarr
Viziam
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Posted - 2007.03.29 12:05:00 -
[24]
While there are ships in game that are IMMUNE to all forms of EW, specifically to being scrambled, then the tactic of bumping will not only be viewed as legal but also as necessary and crucial.
Bumping is the only means to trap a mothership. Every major alliance knows this and uses this tactic to trap enemy Motherships. Those who have titans explicitly use the indirect fire of remote DD detonation over that of direct fire of being on the battle field. They do so cause the only way to trap a piloted titan is to bump it to death.
Now, while we are arguing and since this is a SOCIAL game. If you found yourself flying something valuable and was bumped that lead to ship death, I suggest that next time you get more scouts, and support to escort you. Afterall it is a social game. Those who work together ought to have an advantage over those who act singularly, all things being equal of course.
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Miyau
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2007.03.29 12:10:00 -
[25]
It's already too easy to avoid a fight, especially since warp to 0 was added. Bumping's cool. |
Stakhanov
Shih Yang Tong
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Posted - 2007.03.29 12:20:00 -
[26]
It's funny that people claim bumping is lame. What exactly does "lame" mean ? Not taking skills ? What kind of mad skills are required to activate a module within 20km of the enemy ship anyway , as opposed to anticipating its trajectory to bump it out of warp for the next few seconds ?
Bumping is a legitimate alternative to warp scrambling (which is countered with stabs) but (depending on the target) usually not an easy one.
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Dampfschlaghammer
Minmatar
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.03.29 12:34:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Miyau
It's already too easy to avoid a fight, especially since warp to 0 was added. Bumping's cool.
#
QFT.
Bumping is great.
If anything, it needs to become more streamlined and integrated into the game. Like a special bump command or modules improving bump impact.
It is a nice mechanism that adds complexity and skill to combat, much more so than just activating a module.
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Epictetus
Minmatar
The Establishment
Establishment
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Posted - 2007.03.29 12:45:00 -
[28]
Why do people complain about every single thing in the game that requires at least a minimum of actual player skill?
Please stop asking CCP to dumb the game down even further, its gone to far in that direction already.
If things like bumping are "exploits" the only thing left will truly be F1,F2,F3-...
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Sheriff Jones
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Posted - 2007.03.29 12:49:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 29/03/2007 12:46:21
Well yes, obviously this is a "lack" in game mechanics.
A whatnot megakiloton battleship gets bumped and turned around in space due to coming too close to a cargo container? 
Something needs to be done. I wouldn't mind changing it to damage based, as long as it's something reasonable. Like a shuttle hitting shields/armor of a battleship would be like a fly trying to knock out a tin can.
But at the moment, the bubbleboy ships are ridicilous.
EDIT: Ridicilous in the sense that i mentioned, bumpers could be a shipclass alltogether in gatefights/whatnot. No experience in that.
Originally by: Curzon Dax
1. I am not singing Ducktales.
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heheheh
Singularity.
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Posted - 2007.03.29 13:23:00 -
[30]
it might be lame, but its definatly not an exploit.
Its just another tactic, if we keep nerfing all tactics soon everyone would use the same ships and weapons.
It also does not invalidate warp scrambling either, that can be done at range by anyone, bumping is hard to pull off sometimes and is nowhere near as effective as scramming, unless target is fitted with many WCS.
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