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Dielon ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.31 06:13:00 - [1] I may not have gotten the memo for the 700 person system cap. either there was some thread about it or it suddenly showed up during the lag fest that happened thursday. im not sure but let me look at it from 3 points of veiw: CCP: 5000ish players in one system?! no way, we need to save the node, system cap this i can understand since you dont want huge crashes etc. the play will still be 98% lagged and bugged anyways though. BOB: 700 cap?! yay! our 400 defenders can now hold down the fort from a horde that could kill all the poses! and they cant do anything about it! yay. Coalition:W....T....F.... i bring everyone i can out for a huge bob desctrution rally and now i find out that i need to go against 4-3 odds. i came prepared for a war and all i get is a skirmish/lag kamikaze fight. now. ccp. i have some suggestions to make, i dont now much about servers/computers etc but heres what you could do to make the epic fleet battles you constantly talk about a reality. 1. Buy a new server that can accomodate constellations etc. have people in the constellation with the battle log into the seperate server while that battle takes place. then move the constallation back to Tranquility once everyones done. this doesnt need to be a huge 30K server, just a 6k one. 2. Turn off jita, give that system the jita node. 3. turn off lowsec, and other regions from the major alliances like branch (d2) and others like branhc that would be vacant. give server support to the overloaded sytstem. 4. tally up the overall numbers in the surrounding areas, figure the odds (10:1 for the FT battle)and give the lesser fleet x amount of players they can choose to fight in the system. example: bob has 500 coaltion has 5000. so bob gets approx: 65 players (chosen by bob) to the coalition's (chosen by coalition) 650 players in the one system. this would make the arena finally fair and hopefully less trippy for the combatants. just suggestions, but to have an even fight when we have 5 times more people is out of the question. and brings back the tinfoil hattery for me since BoB def got the upper hand agian due to a direct result of CCPs handiwork. yes we destroyed the pos but i dont think we wouldve gone about it in the same way if we had been able to fight a fleet battle. these are my opinions, not my alliance's. just a quick rant about fleet battles. spelling and english arent my greatest concerns when writing this, comment if you must grammar proffesors. i again know very little about servers/technical computer stuff. flame away. ------Sig Ahead---------- If i have not included some things you would think appropriate for this post please include: [a]Nerf so and so [B]Boost so and so [C]CCP is BoB and other tinfoil
Optimo hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.31 06:31:00 - [2] Edited by: Optimo on 31/03/2007 06:28:17 Originally by: Dielon now. ccp. i have some suggestions to make, i dont now much about servers/computers etc but heres what you could do to make the epic fleet battles you constantly talk about a reality. I thought they were discouraging big fleet battles for those reasons and trying to find ways to stop them... I kinda doubt they will fork out the cash for a whole separate server for them if they don't want them. Besides for the devs to know what zone big battles are going to take place in the coalition will have to tell where they are going to attack, then the devs will tell bob /tinfoil
Evelgrivion Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.03.31 06:35:00 - [3] Its posts like this that illustrate the fact that there is a general lack of understanding of how the game actually functions. To lay some ground framework for those who don't know, this is the gist of how the game works: Every solar system runs on a node. A node is a single micro-processor. Most of the time, a node runs multiple solar systems. Some solar systems, like Jita, have their own processor. Every event that occurs in a solar system, such as jump in information processing, module activation, hit points, and damage modifiers are processed by the node. As you can guess, the node gets very bogged down with the amount of calculations that need to be made for so many people. At 700 players, the node is struggling to maintain anything even relatively stable, let alone playable. For this battle, F-TE, like Jita, had it's own node. Multiple people requested "node reinforcement" in advance - meaning the only solar system on that processor, was F-TE, and nothing else. At this point, it is not possible for CCP to spread a solar system across multiple nodes. As a result, there is a hard limit on the number of people that can be in a solar system, and CCP has not yet found a way to get around that limit. If everyone could please keep this information in mind when making battle plans or forum posts in regards to lag in the future, things could well be a whole lot more reasonable around here. Ta! ---\|---\|---\|---\|---\|---\|---\|---\|---\|---\|---\|---\|--- This isn't the signature you're looking for.
jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia	Posted - 2007.03.31 07:52:00 - [4] Coalition needs to change tactics. a fleet of 1000 people is not going to work with the present state of gaming, and its not going to work in the near future. With the numbers they had in the F-T operation, they could easily be taking down POS in 4 or 5 systems simultaneously (5 x 200 man fleets). Try and defend that. -- Latest Vid: Domination!
Helina Malinos Caldari Euro Traders	Posted - 2007.03.31 08:29:00 - [5] Edited by: Helina Malinos on 31/03/2007 08:27:41 Your ideas suck, you must be a FC need a hug?
Bienurdau Hywoaf Minmatar Matari Holo News Network	Posted - 2007.03.31 08:44:00 - [6] There is a blog in August of Last Year by Oveur that lists a limit. However that limit was never used before until the big BoB Capital Fleet battle. It was not previously used in LV1V. Though certainly more than the limit was in local on occasion during that battle. It was very poorly handled by CCP. It is clear that they are too distracted by K to be getting down to real business. They could easily have used a blog after the LV1V battle, explained what they felt went wrong and what steps they were taking but instead they seem hung up on blogs that at best are inflammatory and at worst defamation. Instead we keep getting a bunch of poor us blogs about the actions of someone they won't even name thus giving more credence to that individual. What I'd like to know is if BoB knew about the change in limit enforcement before the battle started, their defensive setup suggests they did, and if so then once again they benefited from DEV/GM misconduct. Idea: Treaties Idea: Jump Rigs
Izzy Pol Fear and Loathing in LoneTrek	Posted - 2007.03.31 08:56:00 - [7] Originally by: jamesw Coalition needs to change tactics. a fleet of 1000 people is not going to work with the present state of gaming, and its not going to work in the near future. With the numbers they had in the F-T operation, they could easily be taking down POS in 4 or 5 systems simultaneously (5 x 200 man fleets). Try and defend that. Don't come here with your common sense suggestions!
geewiz InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.03.31 09:23:00 - [8] Originally by: Helina Malinos Edited by: Helina Malinos on 31/03/2007 08:27:41 Your ideas suck, you must be a FC need a hug? Ah it's my favourite little troll again PWYMOSTFU <<Post with your main or STFU :) gee
Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.03.31 10:00:00 - [9] Originally by: Izzy Pol Originally by: jamesw Coalition needs to change tactics. a fleet of 1000 people is not going to work with the present state of gaming, and its not going to work in the near future. With the numbers they had in the F-T operation, they could easily be taking down POS in 4 or 5 systems simultaneously (5 x 200 man fleets). Try and defend that. Don't come here with your common sense suggestions! He's got a point. However destroying the capship yards was always going to take as many ships as possible when the defends had 400 in there already. Originally by: Benglada And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
R0niN kR0	Posted - 2007.03.31 10:03:00 - [10] another coalition whining post

Gutsani Chaos Reborn	Posted - 2007.03.31 10:25:00 - [11] Originally by: Evelgrivion Every solar system runs on a computer. A computer is usually a single micro-processor. Most of the time, a computer runs multiple solar systems. Some solar systems, like Jita, have their own processor. A node is a part of a cluster, the way CCP implemented this is obviously not a cluster, alas dont call their computer node's. Design first, implement later .. Well, i guess they cant blame the community for this mistake, can they? Also, you changed processor and cluster from time to time. I guess all their servers are not single core systems (would seriously suprise me <_<), alas Jita has its own node, so multiple processors. Still a stoupid way to design/implement that though. ------------------------ Stop reading my siggy!
Kerkar Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.03.31 10:30:00 - [12] I am certain CCP are working hard to try and resolve the problem, but its not just as simple as "More powah". Of note, flying with bob, i had no idea of a system cap untill about 11pm by which time the POS had died. The Coalition knows that the nodes cant handle the number of people they have, yet they continue to insist on bringing massive fleets to a single system when, as pointed out, multiple fleets hitting various other systems would be much more effective. We shall see how things go.
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.31 10:35:00 - [13] I heard there were more southern forces camping systems arround J-t. So if they knew wouldnt it have been possible to all move in and hit 700 cap giving the northerners no chance?
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.03.31 10:35:00 - [14] Originally by: jamesw Coalition needs to change tactics. a fleet of 1000 people is not going to work with the present state of gaming, and its not going to work in the near future. With the numbers they had in the F-T operation, they could easily be taking down POS in 4 or 5 systems simultaneously (5 x 200 man fleets). Try and defend that. I'll explain to you how that's defended against. BoB set their strontium in the POS you're attacking so they come out of reinforced at 2hr intervals during their prime time. You ignore the initial assault and then mount the same defence you saw on Thursday at each POS in turn. Damage done = 0.
whisk 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.31 10:40:00 - [15] Didn't you all laugh at LV when the show was on the other foot?
Louis DelaBlanche Cosmic Odyssey Chorus of Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.31 10:46:00 - [16] What if CCP hadnt capped the system pop limit though? would we just have another jv1v situation where one side crashes the node with all the defenders on it, then with their superior numbers just moves in more ppl to fill the gap & take down the pos? I think either way this battle would have resulted in whining that CCP didnt do enough or did things the wrong way. Ppl just seem to expect too much of the technology behind this game. Just coz we play 20000years in the future, doesnt mean the rl technology behind it is so advanced.
Gurgling CEO Gurgleblaster Industries	Posted - 2007.03.31 10:56:00 - [17] Originally by: jamesw Coalition needs to change tactics. a fleet of 1000 people is not going to work with the present state of gaming, and its not going to work in the near future. With the numbers they had in the F-T operation, they could easily be taking down POS in 4 or 5 systems simultaneously (5 x 200 man fleets). Try and defend that. Yeah. Coalition could cause endless amounts of grief to BoB with minimal risk if they wanted to (split that 200 capships into 10 fleets and go knock poses into reinf all over their territory). Only thing basically needed is good recon about BoB movements (if superior gang is approaching, just stop siege and go somewhere else and repeat). If 40-50 poses go into reinf mode per day, its pretty damn hard to defend them all when they start to pop out of reinf. But i guess making huge blobs is more interesting to coalition than acutally getting stuff done.
Brixer Dai Dai Hai	Posted - 2007.03.31 11:01:00 - [18] I know how I would have set up a capital array POS: 1) Put it in a system with station and medical service. 2) Make sure there are at least 400 people there to defend it and all those have their death-clones at the station in system. 3) Wait for attackers to jump in 1 by 1 as they have to wait for 1 of their own to pop before fielding a new ship. Defenders would never leave system because they would just be moved to the station.
INZi coracao ardente	Posted - 2007.03.31 11:05:00 - [19] Originally by: jamesw Coalition needs to change tactics. a fleet of 1000 people is not going to work with the present state of gaming, and its not going to work in the near future. With the numbers they had in the F-T operation, they could easily be taking down POS in 4 or 5 systems simultaneously (5 x 200 man fleets). Try and defend that. good grief! that's like almost using a brain. us eve-kiddies lack those thou
Vensa Heckler Clarf Inc	Posted - 2007.03.31 11:08:00 - [20] Originally by: Dielon I may not have gotten the memo for the 700 person system cap. either there was some thread about it or it suddenly showed up during the lag fest that happened thursday. im not sure but let me look at it from 3 points of veiw: CCP: 5000ish players in one system?! no way, we need to save the node, system cap this i can understand since you dont want huge crashes etc. the play will still be 98% lagged and bugged anyways though. BOB: 700 cap?! yay! our 400 defenders can now hold down the fort from a horde that could kill all the poses! and they cant do anything about it! yay. Coalition:W....T....F.... i bring everyone i can out for a huge bob desctrution rally and now i find out that i need to go against 4-3 odds. i came prepared for a war and all i get is a skirmish/lag kamikaze fight. now. ccp. i have some suggestions to make, i dont now much about servers/computers etc but heres what you could do to make the epic fleet battles you constantly talk about a reality. 1. Buy a new server that can accomodate constellations etc. have people in the constellation with the battle log into the seperate server while that battle takes place. then move the constallation back to Tranquility once everyones done. this doesnt need to be a huge 30K server, just a 6k one. 2. Turn off jita, give that system the jita node. 3. turn off lowsec, and other regions from the major alliances like branch (d2) and others like branhc that would be vacant. give server support to the overloaded sytstem. 4. tally up the overall numbers in the surrounding areas, figure the odds (10:1 for the FT battle)and give the lesser fleet x amount of players they can choose to fight in the system. example: bob has 500 coaltion has 5000. so bob gets approx: 65 players (chosen by bob) to the coalition's (chosen by coalition) 650 players in the one system. this would make the arena finally fair and hopefully less trippy for the combatants. just suggestions, but to have an even fight when we have 5 times more people is out of the question. and brings back the tinfoil hattery for me since BoB def got the upper hand agian due to a direct result of CCPs handiwork. yes we destroyed the pos but i dont think we wouldve gone about it in the same way if we had been able to fight a fleet battle. these are my opinions, not my alliance's. just a quick rant about fleet battles. spelling and english arent my greatest concerns when writing this, comment if you must grammar proffesors. i again know very little about servers/technical computer stuff. flame away. less whine whine, more pew pew - Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law

Kcel Chim Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2007.03.31 11:13:00 - [21] Edited by: Kcel Chim on 31/03/2007 11:10:42 Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Originally by: Izzy Pol Originally by: jamesw Coalition needs to change tactics. a fleet of 1000 people is not going to work with the present state of gaming, and its not going to work in the near future. With the numbers they had in the F-T operation, they could easily be taking down POS in 4 or 5 systems simultaneously (5 x 200 man fleets). Try and defend that. Don't come here with your common sense suggestions! He's got a point. However destroying the capship yards was always going to take as many ships as possible when the defends had 400 in there already. Sadly that rumor keeps popping up. Irony has it that during the fight the total local number never jumped above 450 and BoB had only 1 capital fleet (limited by gangsize below in theory 250 and in reality below 200) and a smallish supportfleet of maybe 50-100 ships in system and hence never exceeding the 50% limit during the fight. So the number 400 is simply wrong and has been proven wrong by both screenshots and coalition member posts on this very same forum stating that local kept at 400-450. A number which included also many defenders crashing or not loading like the attacker, as was well documented by both sides in form of "omg i never saw anything and couldnt do anything" reports. Just because some coalition members got told they can only bring in ppl to a max of 700 (per system) doesnt mean that maybe the defenders got similar orders aswell (just ofc limited to 350 defenders max). Which are just either ignored by the public or not told by BoB as they see it fruitless to stress out something which would only get drowned in Gm-foilhattery and prejudice. As others stated the coalition knew from jv-1 perfectly well how the lag would be, that the game cant support x thousand ppl and that there would most likely be a nodecrash if ccp wouldnt intervene. Yet they still managed to come up with the "zerg" as the only solution to everything, full well accepting the possible outcome and as some coalition members posted even exspecting it. Sorry your whinning and crying is just hillarious.
Verite Rendition Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2007.03.31 11:14:00 - [22] Originally by: Louis DelaBlanche What if CCP hadnt capped the system pop limit though? would we just have another jv1v situation where one side crashes the node with all the defenders on it, then with their superior numbers just moves in more ppl to fill the gap & take down the pos? I think either way this battle would have resulted in whining that CCP didnt do enough or did things the wrong way. Ppl just seem to expect too much of the technology behind this game. Just coz we play 20000years in the future, doesnt mean the rl technology behind it is so advanced. I agree, it's a lose-lose situation given the current game mechanics; if it's not capped then it just crashes and it all goes to hell. But if it is capped, then it gives the defender perfect defense of a system, and you can't decisively win a war if you can't siege important systems(trying to simultaneously siege multiple systems won't work for previously mentioned reasons). You can't blame either side, but at the same time the current situation can't be maintained if it's just going to turn wars in to standoffs. If CCP can't make the current game mechanics work on the current hardware they need to change the game mechanics, there's just no way around this. In the mean time though, what is there anyone can do? ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic
Minigin Zephyr Enterprises Inc. Astral Wolves	Posted - 2007.03.31 11:15:00 - [23] practically i can understand why ccp did this... but i have to say... i find it highly advantageous to BOB for this to happen. had the server not been limited to 700 the node would have certainly come down... however by capping the system number ccp effectivly rendered the coalitions numbers (which really is their big advantage on bob) completly useless! now weather keeping the lag to said "98%" was worth it i cant say... but by capping the numbers in system ccp gave bob a big boost. some people interpreted this as ccp giving bob a hand... im not as cynical but i think there was deffinatly clear advantage to bob with this cap on numbers in system. Your signature <----- My awsome Sig
Kcel Chim Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2007.03.31 11:20:00 - [24] Originally by: Verite Rendition Originally by: Louis DelaBlanche What if CCP hadnt capped the system pop limit though? would we just have another jv1v situation where one side crashes the node with all the defenders on it, then with their superior numbers just moves in more ppl to fill the gap & take down the pos? I think either way this battle would have resulted in whining that CCP didnt do enough or did things the wrong way. Ppl just seem to expect too much of the technology behind this game. Just coz we play 20000years in the future, doesnt mean the rl technology behind it is so advanced. I agree, it's a lose-lose situation given the current game mechanics; if it's not capped then it just crashes and it all goes to hell. But if it is capped, then it gives the defender perfect defense of a system, and you can't decisively win a war if you can't siege important systems(trying to simultaneously siege multiple systems won't work for previously mentioned reasons). You can't blame either side, but at the same time the current situation can't be maintained if it's just going to turn wars in to standoffs. If CCP can't make the current game mechanics work on the current hardware they need to change the game mechanics, there's just no way around this. In the mean time though, what is there anyone can do? Jamesw's point still stands. The strontium levels are not a hinderance atall considering the long distance bob space has between Fountain and Feyt. BoB couldnt just micromanage 100 towers coming out of reinforced in 10 different systems, neither could they moved 500 jumps in a laggy situation all evening to move to all these 10 hotspots, and if they tried you could try to delay and intercept them. Sometimes the objective is not to win just by killing or numbers but to reach your objective. Afterall that is what your whole coalition preaches when it comes to the rumor the pos might have been empty, or ? So use your logic on other occasions aswell.... If 50 dead dreads dont hurt 150 sacrified bs wont either or ? Dont keep telling yourself those rumors to convince yourself that u had only the zerg as the one and best solution at hand....
Kcel Chim Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2007.03.31 11:25:00 - [25] Originally by: Minigin practically i can understand why ccp did this... but i have to say... i find it highly advantageous to BOB for this to happen. had the server not been limited to 700 the node would have certainly come down... however by capping the system number ccp effectivly rendered the coalitions numbers (which really is their big advantage on bob) completly useless! now weather keeping the lag to said "98%" was worth it i cant say... but by capping the numbers in system ccp gave bob a big boost. some people interpreted this as ccp giving bob a hand... im not as cynical but i think there was deffinatly clear advantage to bob with this cap on numbers in system. the choice was easy to make. Either a fight with a rather leveled playingfield with a laggy but still "epic" outcome or no fight at all due to the server restrictions with a tearfully disputed "we couldnt kill the pos because the system didnt hold" / "we couldnt defend the pos because the system kept crashing" outcome. What choice would you have made ? Especially considering the "newsflashyness" of this whole war and the internal advertising ccp does. Imagine if the signal for future "epic battles" would just be "bring as many ppl as it takes to kill the node and win" how many ppl would after the bob conflict be interested in epic battles ?
Ifni Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.03.31 11:30:00 - [26] Honestly, the whole unit cap argument is stupid. For a start, we have only heresay that apparently a GM placed a 700 unit limit on the system. No official CCP word on it. But assuming that this limit was never in place, do you honestly think that there would have been a fight if you had brought your 1000 man gang in to F-T? Don't be stupid, you've seen how it goes with alot less people so to think that you would actually be able to play with a gang of that size shows a lack of foresight, preparation and understanding of basic EVE mechanics. You take what is offered. And that must sometimes be enough.
Guderian Gallente Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.31 11:34:00 - [27] Let me get this straight. In the JV1V incident the coalition got the upper hand because the node were reset or crashed 6-7 times, so the attacking side were able to jump into system while the defenders were stuck at login screen. That way they could unhindered attack the pos without getting a fight, and everything were fine and dandy, and the coalition laughed at LV for questioning the situation. In this new battle, the node didn't crash or were reset (as I understand it) and the coalitions caddletrain whrecked with 200mph and lost the biggest number of capital ships ever in one fight in the history of EVE (more than 4 times as many as the previous record if I'm not mistaken). And now the coalition cries about the state of the game? Is the coalition just bitter because they couldn't apply the same tactic as in JV1V, so they unhindered could take down another pos without a fight? "Blessed is he, who walks through life in ignorance, 'cause he does not know the dangers that lie beyond."
Nostic	Posted - 2007.03.31 11:35:00 - [28] The server performed much different from JV1V. In JV1V, there were over 1000 people in local multiple times. We would (kind of) be able to fight for a few minutes before the node would crash again. Eventually the node stayed up. In F-T, every system within 3 jumps was completely lagged out. The surrounding systems of JV1V had very little lag. After taking an hour to move 3 jumps to get into F-T, it was simply not possible to get into the system. I waited for over an hour (the previous gates took 10-15 minutes to load on the other side). The vast majority of the coalition capital fleet never loaded F-T after jumping in. If it's true that only 450 people were in F-T at it's peak, I have a hard time believing it was on it's own node. 450 people was very playable in many large battles we had in the south with RAGOON VS V/LV, notably in both fights for 1v-. The game definitely wouldn't have been a smooth ride, but I've seen it run better than it did. Hopefully ccp got good logs.
Minigin Zephyr Enterprises Inc. Astral Wolves	Posted - 2007.03.31 11:43:00 - [29] Originally by: Kcel Chim Originally by: Minigin practically i can understand why ccp did this... but i have to say... i find it highly advantageous to BOB for this to happen. had the server not been limited to 700 the node would have certainly come down... however by capping the system number ccp effectivly rendered the coalitions numbers (which really is their big advantage on bob) completly useless! now weather keeping the lag to said "98%" was worth it i cant say... but by capping the numbers in system ccp gave bob a big boost. some people interpreted this as ccp giving bob a hand... im not as cynical but i think there was deffinatly clear advantage to bob with this cap on numbers in system. the choice was easy to make. Either a fight with a rather leveled playingfield with a laggy but still "epic" outcome or no fight at all due to the server restrictions with a tearfully disputed "we couldnt kill the pos because the system didnt hold" / "we couldnt defend the pos because the system kept crashing" outcome. What choice would you have made ? Especially considering the "newsflashyness" of this whole war and the internal advertising ccp does. Imagine if the signal for future "epic battles" would just be "bring as many ppl as it takes to kill the node and win" how many ppl would after the bob conflict be interested in epic battles ? so your saying that capping the system wasnt advantageous to bob? because if you arnt... then i dont know what else we have to argue... Your signature <----- My awsome Sig
Verite Rendition Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2007.03.31 11:57:00 - [30] Edited by: Verite Rendition on 31/03/2007 11:57:28 Edited by: Verite Rendition on 31/03/2007 11:56:00 Originally by: Kcel Chim Originally by: Verite Rendition Originally by: Louis DelaBlanche What if CCP hadnt capped the system pop limit though? would we just have another jv1v situation where one side crashes the node with all the defenders on it, then with their superior numbers just moves in more ppl to fill the gap & take down the pos? I think either way this battle would have resulted in whining that CCP didnt do enough or did things the wrong way. Ppl just seem to expect too much of the technology behind this game. Just coz we play 20000years in the future, doesnt mean the rl technology behind it is so advanced. I agree, it's a lose-lose situation given the current game mechanics; if it's not capped then it just crashes and it all goes to hell. But if it is capped, then it gives the defender perfect defense of a system, and you can't decisively win a war if you can't siege important systems(trying to simultaneously siege multiple systems won't work for previously mentioned reasons). You can't blame either side, but at the same time the current situation can't be maintained if it's just going to turn wars in to standoffs. If CCP can't make the current game mechanics work on the current hardware they need to change the game mechanics, there's just no way around this. In the mean time though, what is there anyone can do? Jamesw's point still stands. The strontium levels are not a hinderance atall considering the long distance bob space has between Fountain and Feyt. BoB couldnt just micromanage 100 towers coming out of reinforced in 10 different systems, neither could they moved 500 jumps in a laggy situation all evening to move to all these 10 hotspots, and if they tried you could try to delay and intercept them. Sometimes the objective is not to win just by killing or numbers but to reach your objective. Afterall that is what your whole coalition preaches when it comes to the rumor the pos might have been empty, or ? So use your logic on other occasions aswell.... If 50 dead dreads dont hurt 150 sacrified bs wont either or ? Dont keep telling yourself those rumors to convince yourself that u had only the zerg as the one and best solution at hand.... It's late and the forums ate my reply, so I'll give the cliff notes version: * Please don't confuse me with some idiot fanboy. I may be a member of CORE, but that doesn't mean I can't think for myself. This annoys me greatly, I hate propaganda from both sides and am not about to spew it myself * EVE is just another strategy(TBS/RTS) game in the end * I disagree with your assertion because I have never played a strategy game where using only hit & run tactics or multiple small groups works * Due to the advantages resulting from defending fewer points, it's always in the defenders' favor to consolidate their holdings to a few places * This results in a war always ending in a showdown where the attacker needs to (word for what you do to nuts to open them) a well-defended point * At this point you either throw more units or better units than your enemy to win * EVE effectively has a quality cap due to what ships and modules can be used * This means if both sides are equal(which frankly almost isn't the case in this war, BoB would seem to have more brains and SPs) the winner needs to use more units * The system cap breaks this * Now a defender can win by abusing the cap * We've already reduced the number of targets to those that can be defended in full, so small groups won't work * Therefore you must at some point attack a target with more units than the defender has to win * Conclusion: I respectfully disagree with you, the "zerg" is sometimes the "one and best solution at hand" ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic



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