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bullet83
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Posted - 2007.04.02 17:51:00 -
[1]
I have not been playing this game very long but i have noticed something that seems a little strange to me.....If theses ships have shields then why does it look like all projectiles or beam weapons actually hit the ship.
This makes no sence, the ships even jerk about when they get hit by missiles, but this would`nt happen if they explode on the shields.
Therefore why dont the developers use the new graphics engine to create the "shield effect". It would be really cool if a ripple of light could pan out from an impact point on the ships shields. Ofcourse when the shield has depleted then the weapons fire should hit the actual ship.
Has anybody else thought of this?
Anybody else think this is a good idea?
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Waxau
Liberty Rogues
Coalition of Carebear Killers
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Posted - 2007.04.02 18:11:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: bullet83
I have not been playing this game very long but i have noticed something that seems a little strange to me.....If theses ships have shields then why does it look like all projectiles or beam weapons actually hit the ship.
This makes no sence, the ships even jerk about when they get hit by missiles, but this would`nt happen if they explode on the shields.
Therefore why dont the developers use the new graphics engine to create the "shield effect". It would be really cool if a ripple of light could pan out from an impact point on the ships shields. Ofcourse when the shield has depleted then the weapons fire should hit the actual ship.
Has anybody else thought of this?
Anybody else think this is a good idea?
Mentioned many times - Obvious reason why tho...
Lag
<end>
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Nub Sauce
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Posted - 2007.04.03 08:56:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Nub Sauce on 03/04/2007 09:03:06
Actually all of the graphics and graphic cacluations could be done client-side. No lag involved.
If you are talking about client system performance, there are always graphic options that you can turn on and off depending on your system. Mine could handle it no problem.
Also there is adaptive degredation so that if there are many instances of this graphic going on it'll only show on your ship or only so often when you are hit. Could easily be done with a little thought put into it.
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Waxau
Liberty Rogues
Coalition of Carebear Killers
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Posted - 2007.04.03 10:01:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Nub Sauce
Edited by: Nub Sauce on 03/04/2007 09:03:06
Actually all of the graphics and graphic cacluations could be done client-side. No lag involved.
If you are talking about client system performance, there are always graphic options that you can turn on and off depending on your system. Mine could handle it no problem.
Also there is adaptive degredation so that if there are many instances of this graphic going on it'll only show on your ship or only so often when you are hit. Could easily be done with a little thought put into it.
Actually, whilst it POSSIBLY could be done client side, that would add extra lag - As we all know, current Pvp + sound = death lag. So imagine the extra coding having to be done just to make it look 'a tiny incy wincie' bit better.
Before any changes like this, i want to see ccp fix the major bugs and problems - Lag, Chimera model.....hell - Even warping thru a planet, before this 
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Sanitys Rebel
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Posted - 2007.04.04 12:58:00 -
[5]
at the very least, shift the explosion points to hit the sheild. no added effects, just actual impact on the sheilds. It looks kinda funny in a POS attack seeing 200 torpedo's walk right through the sheilds and hit the tower several kilometers behind it. This would add no "NEW" effects to my "Limited" knowledge of graphics generation that would generate more or less lag.
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Waxau
Liberty Rogues
Coalition of Carebear Killers
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Posted - 2007.04.04 14:38:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Sanitys Rebel
at the very least, shift the explosion points to hit the sheild. no added effects, just actual impact on the sheilds. It looks kinda funny in a POS attack seeing 200 torpedo's walk right through the sheilds and hit the tower several kilometers behind it. This would add no "NEW" effects to my "Limited" knowledge of graphics generation that would generate more or less lag.
The fact that the torps and weapons fire would have to hit a sherical 'boundry' would infact mean alot of coding if im correct, which whilst isnt a problem....its then extra code ontop of the average code, considering once the shield goes down, they need to start hitting the actual object.
In a flet battle of several hundreds vs several hundreds, it gets a bit laggy as it is.
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Suboran
Gallente
Sphinx Inc
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Posted - 2007.04.04 21:27:00 -
[7]
what if the shield is right next to the ship as a sort of coating?
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low sec is like a zoo without cages
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.04.04 22:52:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Nyphur on 04/04/2007 22:48:43
Originally by: Waxau
The fact that the torps and weapons fire would have to hit a sherical 'boundry' would infact mean alot of coding if im correct, which whilst isnt a problem....its then extra code ontop of the average code, considering once the shield goes down, they need to start hitting the actual object.
In a flet battle of several hundreds vs several hundreds, it gets a bit laggy as it is.
It would be quite easy to solve this issue. Classify the shield effect as an "effect", making it removable by removing effects with ctrl+alt+shift+E, which is something everyone does is fleet combat to lower graphical "lag". If graphical lag is your problem, what CCP really need is an option to switch to FPS-based LOD rather than distance from the camera. When your FPS starts to drop a lot, it switches to rendering simpler models so that it balances out. This can be done incrementally until you're staring at icons instead of models ships and if a computer has trouble drawing 200-man gangs when the only ship to render is your own and the rest are just icons, something's wrong with your computer.
The shield effect could use simple ray mathematics on a sphere around the ship to determine where it was hit then display a generic shield impact effect oriented such that the focal point is around where the strike was. It wouldn't use a ton of CPU to do that for your own ship or the ship you're watching and that's all that would be required. You don't need to see a shield effect unless you're right up next to a ship, meaning you could either restrict the effect to the ship you're currently looking at (right click look at, default your own ship) or there could be a distance from the camera where the shield effect simply doesn't show.
And it wouldn't cause more lag because it could be done clientside. The simple fact is that most of this stuff is not done because the devs are busy doing other things.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Aki Yamato
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Posted - 2007.04.05 00:10:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Waxau
Originally by: Sanitys Rebel
...
The fact that the torps and weapons fire would have to hit a sherical 'boundry' would infact mean alot of coding if im correct, which whilst isnt a problem....its then extra code ontop of the average code, considering once the shield goes down, they need to start hitting the actual object.
In a flet battle of several hundreds vs several hundreds, it gets a bit laggy as it is.
If compiting moving expolsion center from pivot of the ship to border of the shied is alot of coding, what is then computing behaviour of rigid body hitted by projectile to certain part ?? (feature of many present games witch runs smoothy on present PCs)
BIG GUN
BIG FUTURE |
Blind Man
Kemono.
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.05 01:11:00 -
[10]
the new graphics engine will have effects like this included
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.04.05 03:21:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Blind Man
the new graphics engine will have effects like this included
And you based that on...?
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Waxau
Liberty Rogues
Coalition of Carebear Killers
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Posted - 2007.04.05 09:24:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Aki Yamato
Originally by: Waxau
Originally by: Sanitys Rebel
...
The fact that the torps and weapons fire would have to hit a sherical 'boundry' would infact mean alot of coding if im correct, which whilst isnt a problem....its then extra code ontop of the average code, considering once the shield goes down, they need to start hitting the actual object.
In a flet battle of several hundreds vs several hundreds, it gets a bit laggy as it is.
If compiting moving expolsion center from pivot of the ship to border of the shied is alot of coding, what is then computing behaviour of rigid body hitted by projectile to certain part ?? (feature of many present games witch runs smoothy on present PCs)
Because you dont have so many players on the same server, unsharred. Or whatever it is.
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Aki Yamato
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Posted - 2007.04.05 11:05:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Waxau
Originally by: Aki Yamato
Originally by: Waxau
Originally by: Sanitys Rebel
...
The fact that the torps and weapons fire would have to hit a sherical 'boundry' would infact mean alot of coding if im correct, which whilst isnt a problem....its then extra code ontop of the average code, considering once the shield goes down, they need to start hitting the actual object.
In a flet battle of several hundreds vs several hundreds, it gets a bit laggy as it is.
If compiting moving expolsion center from pivot of the ship to border of the shied is alot of coding, what is then computing behaviour of rigid body hitted by projectile to certain part ?? (feature of many present games witch runs smoothy on present PCs)
Because you dont have so many players on the same server, unsharred. Or whatever it is.
I dont want to abuse you but you obviously know very little about MMO games principes. Server does not compute any grapthic tasks only clients does, its the clients problem to copute your position enemy ship position trajectory of the projectile impact point and showing proper gfx effect. There is no extra data stream between client and server or even extra server computing.
Even on presnet engine it would add a little computing on client side and present almost zero FPS drop, and for sure can be turned off in options for fleet combat.
BIG GUN
BIG FUTURE |
Waxau
Liberty Rogues
Coalition of Carebear Killers
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Posted - 2007.04.05 11:11:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Aki Yamato
Originally by: Waxau
Originally by: Aki Yamato
Originally by: Waxau
Originally by: Sanitys Rebel
...
The fact that the torps and weapons fire would have to hit a sherical 'boundry' would infact mean alot of coding if im correct, which whilst isnt a problem....its then extra code ontop of the average code, considering once the shield goes down, they need to start hitting the actual object.
In a flet battle of several hundreds vs several hundreds, it gets a bit laggy as it is.
If compiting moving expolsion center from pivot of the ship to border of the shied is alot of coding, what is then computing behaviour of rigid body hitted by projectile to certain part ?? (feature of many present games witch runs smoothy on present PCs)
Because you dont have so many players on the same server, unsharred. Or whatever it is.
I dont want to abuse you but you obviously know very little about MMO games principes. Server does not compute any grapthic tasks only clients does, its the clients problem to copute your position enemy ship position trajectory of the projectile impact point and showing proper gfx effect. There is no extra data stream between client and server or even extra server computing.
Even on presnet engine it would add a little computing on client side and present almost zero FPS drop, and for sure can be turned off in options for fleet combat.
Oh im sorry - I didnt realise it was a prerequisite to be a nerd to play eve. 
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.04.05 11:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Waxau
Oh im sorry - I didnt realise it was a prerequisite to be a nerd to play eve.
Not to play, but definitely to develop. If you're unsure of something (like whether or not client graphical issues cause lag), this probably isn't the best forum to post it on.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Chruker
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Posted - 2007.04.05 12:16:00 -
[16]
What really annoyed me in the beginning was how every shot appears to be a direct hit, even though the damage message says that you missed, or something missed you.
How hard can it be to make the shot flew by?
----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online -----
Top wishes:
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- Updated data export
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Blind Man
Kemono.
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.05 14:28:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Blind Man
the new graphics engine will have effects like this included
And you based that on...?
i read it a long while ago, can't remember where 
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.04.05 18:24:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Nyphur on 05/04/2007 18:22:39
Originally by: Chruker
What really annoyed me in the beginning was how every shot appears to be a direct hit, even though the damage message says that you missed, or something missed you.
How hard can it be to make the shot flew by?
YES, I always got annoyed by that. It's not mathematically hard to make the shot actually miss but I think the graphics for getting shot run almost completely independantly of the actual damage messages. As far as I can tell, the graphics engine is only told when to begin firing from ship A to ship B, which wapon type and what RoF to use and then is told to stop when the weapon is deactivated. I base that on the fact that when it's laggy, weapons keep firing and I recall often seeing smartbombs go off twice when I only use it once (indicating that the graphics engine has the RoF wrong).
EDIT: Of course, I could be wrong as I do recall being in a complex when I lagged out and the ships weren't firing. I don't remember if I had turned turret effects off or not, though.
It shouldn't be hard to make miss-shots actually miss as it can be one entirely client-side. The work done by the client would be increased as it would need a maintain a queue of incoming damage messages and process them into graphical hits and misses in real-time. If they are to do that, the effect would have to be restricted to your own ship or the ship you're looking at and would have to be optional but today's computers would have no problem with it at all.
Originally by: Blind Man
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Blind Man
the new graphics engine will have effects like this included
And you based that on...?
i read it a long while ago, can't remember where
Hmm, maybe a devblog? To be honet they promise us lots of stuff that they then forget about. It's not on the development notes so either it's not planned or it's a surprise.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Nub Sauce
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Posted - 2007.04.06 19:02:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Waxau
Originally by: Sanitys Rebel
at the very least, shift the explosion points to hit the sheild. no added effects, just actual impact on the sheilds. It looks kinda funny in a POS attack seeing 200 torpedo's walk right through the sheilds and hit the tower several kilometers behind it. This would add no "NEW" effects to my "Limited" knowledge of graphics generation that would generate more or less lag.
The fact that the torps and weapons fire would have to hit a sherical 'boundry' would infact mean alot of coding if im correct, which whilst isnt a problem....its then extra code ontop of the average code, considering once the shield goes down, they need to start hitting the actual object.
In a flet battle of several hundreds vs several hundreds, it gets a bit laggy as it is.
Adaptive degredation would prevent issues with a massive number of ships. The effect would simply turn off if performance drops to a certain level. Not hard to implement and should be part of any game where tons of players can gather and battle.
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Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
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Posted - 2007.04.11 10:05:00 -
[20]
The shield is large - but think of it as the shield like a giant ballon that bends in and absorbs the shots/explosions and not like a steelhard bubble made of see through energy
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I'm a nice guy!!
and OMG I love Team Tuxford for the speedbalancing... |
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