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Mobadder Thworst
The Eviction Mandate Eviction Imminent
1014
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Posted - 2016.11.27 23:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm posting this as a service. For those who know me, I'm sure some could vouch for my understanding of maneuver mechanics.
I have trained a lot of good PVP'ers over the years and I believe everything starts with an understanding of how your maneuvering affects damage taken and dealt. These strategies of maneuver dictate builds, fleet doctrines, etc.. and everything else.
For those who don't know me, please read a tutorial I wrote a few years ago: tutorial. This is just the basics.
I will be in Umokka teaching any who choose to come. I plan for this to be my permanent place in the game. I enjoy teaching and hope to make Umokka a place for casual cheap PVP.
The rules are as follows: 1) I will not teach you anything until I see one of the following: A) a lossmail (1 week old or newer) of you in a T1 frigate in Umokka. B) a killmail (1 week old or newer) of you killing something in a T1 frigate in Umokka. C) you actively looking for a fight in a T1 frigate. 2) read the tutorial before asking questions. It is long and I don't want to re-cover it for every student.
I always start students in T1 frigates because they are cheap and they are amongst the most technical ships to fly. The wide range of speeds and orbital ranges that are relevant in these ships inflate the value of maneuver for those who fly them.
Against skilled opponents, you sometimes must change strategies multiple times in a fight... which is unusual in the larger ships.
I don't care if you are at war, 3 days old, or older than me. I will fight you, spectate your fights, and work with you as long as you come to fight and are reasonably cool.
I don't want you in my corp and I don't want to be in your corp. I just want to hang out, teach, and engage in casual PVP.
For those who want to participate, you know where to find me.
This project has 2 locations: Chat: Numbnuts Pub Physical: Umokka x- Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Station "on the undock". |
Benson en Efnyssen
Tzimisce's Doctrine
53
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Posted - 2016.11.28 00:42:53 -
[2] - Quote
I welcome the idea but I am somewhat sceptical. Last time I saw a service like advertised here the tutor had so other specific requirements, such as wearing Speedos while on Skype and drinking a cocktail called a "Cosbypolitan"?
Last time I tried one these PVP lesson services I blanked out and woke up wearing lipstick next to an Alsatian, minus said Speedos. Will you be offering a similar service? |
Noragen Neirfallas
Rabble Inc. Legio De Mortem
3272
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Posted - 2016.11.28 00:45:34 -
[3] - Quote
I fully endorse this Product and/or Service
Furthermore I see it as an extnesion of the no NewBro left behind initiative founded by Veers which sparked a real drive in the community to include NewBros in all Neweden has to offer to save them from the drone of missions and mining. Without Products and/or Services such as this New Eden would be a dull place indeed
+10
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
ISD Max Trix favourite ISD
'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King-Griffin
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Noragen Neirfallas
Rabble Inc. Legio De Mortem
3273
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Posted - 2016.11.28 00:46:20 -
[4] - Quote
Benson en Efnyssen wrote:I welcome the idea but I am somewhat sceptical. Last time I saw a service like advertised here the tutor had so other specific requirements, such as wearing Speedos while on Skype and drinking a cocktail called a "Cosbypolitan"?
Last time I tried one these PVP lesson services I blanked out and woke up wearing lipstick next to an Alsatian, minus said Speedos. Will you be offering a similar service? You have to pay for that kind of service in my experience
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
ISD Max Trix favourite ISD
'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King-Griffin
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Benson en Efnyssen
Tzimisce's Doctrine
54
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Posted - 2016.11.28 00:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:Benson en Efnyssen wrote:I welcome the idea but I am somewhat sceptical. Last time I saw a service like advertised here the tutor had so other specific requirements, such as wearing Speedos while on Skype and drinking a cocktail called a "Cosbypolitan"?
Last time I tried one these PVP lesson services I blanked out and woke up wearing lipstick next to an Alsatian, minus said Speedos. Will you be offering a similar service? You have to pay for that kind of service in my experience
Paid for in dignity and shame.
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Mobadder Thworst
The Eviction Mandate Eviction Imminent
1017
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Posted - 2016.11.28 00:55:02 -
[6] - Quote
Benson en Efnyssen wrote:I welcome the idea but I am somewhat sceptical. Last time I saw a service like advertised here the tutor had so other specific requirements, such as wearing Speedos while on Skype and drinking a cocktail called a "Cosbypolitan"?
Last time I tried one these PVP lesson services I blanked out and woke up wearing lipstick next to an Alsatian, minus said Speedos. Will you be offering a similar service?
While I'm open in payment in exactly these manners, I actually do enjoy teaching and will be working with anyone who shows a willingness to fight... with or without fighting me and without payment.
I have been baiting and teaching in local lately and having quite a bit of fun doing so. I figured if I could get more people to come down and participate, maybe I could relive the chaos of the glory days.
I think it's too damn hard for players to learn to fight now that fleet stuff is the only easy fights to get. Those who participate will see the value and maybe enjoy some casual cheap pvp along the way.
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
2690
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Posted - 2016.11.28 12:54:58 -
[7] - Quote
I fully support this service. We need more real fighters teaching the stuff you don't find on wikis, FAQs, etc.
Relatively Notorious By Association
My Many Misadventures
I predicted FAUXs
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Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
4326
|
Posted - 2016.11.28 13:31:21 -
[8] - Quote
Vouch.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
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Mobadder Thworst
The Eviction Mandate Eviction Imminent
1018
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Posted - 2016.11.29 02:32:27 -
[9] - Quote
Today's thought: If you are using a MWD with short range guns, a scram, or a web... you better be prepared for your opponent's scram to turn off your MWD... and then for your opponent to have full maneuver freedom.
See, a MWD turns off when someone hits you with a scrambler... leaving you at mosey-speed.
If you can't think of an occasion when you want your opponent to have full authority of engagement range, you probably ought not combine a MWD with any plan that requires getting closer to a target than 15k. (There are some scenarios where this makes sense, but make sure you have thought it through). |
Natural CloneKiller
The Phoenix Rising Vendetta Mercenary Group
266
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Posted - 2016.11.29 11:33:38 -
[10] - Quote
I would contact p45. They require this service. |
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
2694
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Posted - 2016.11.29 11:42:11 -
[11] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:Today's thought: If you are using a MWD with short range guns, a scram, or a web... you better be prepared for your opponent's scram to turn off your MWD... and then for your opponent to have full maneuver freedom.
See, a MWD turns off when someone hits you with a scrambler... leaving you at mosey-speed.
If you can't think of an occasion when you want your opponent to have full authority of engagement range, you probably ought not combine a MWD with any plan that requires getting closer to a target than 15k. (There are some scenarios where this makes sense, but make sure you have thought it through). +1 This is the eternal* conundrum of short range guns: you need to close range quickly, but you also need to maintain relative mobility once you get there even if your MED gets shut off.
When packing short range guns, dual web or dual prop is your friend. I never really got good at flying blaster boats until I learned this. (Of course, when Tiericide came along and gave the Thorax a fourth midslot, that certainly helped too....)
*Well, it's not eternal strictly speaking. Scrams didn't always used to shut down MWDs. But you get the idea.
Relatively Notorious By Association
My Many Misadventures
I predicted FAUXs
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2362
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Posted - 2016.11.29 12:59:08 -
[12] - Quote
Vouch for Mo. He's good people and good at Eve. You can't beat quality free instruction.
GL Mo - get the fire back! |
Mobadder Thworst
The Eviction Mandate Eviction Imminent
1022
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Posted - 2016.11.29 13:42:53 -
[13] - Quote
Today's thought of the day:
If you are having trouble tracking an opponent with your guns, you have several options of maneuver:
1) If your ship is stopped, that's the worst case scenario. I can't think of a scenario where you get a tactical advantage from stopping. If you need to be stationary even when not fighting, jettison something and orbit the can. That will at least keep alpha-shooters from insta popping you. I wouldn't think of this as a tactic, but I still see it from time to time.
2) Orbiting your opponent (The only method that's commonly used in the game) - If you are orbiting your opponent and you cannot hit him effectively with your guns, you can orbit farther away to try to reduce his angular speed, but probably orbiting is not your best option.
I think most people always "orbit" when they fight. Second most common tactic is stopping, sadly.
Here are two better options. If you haven't tried these, get a cruiser with short range guns and get a friend in an Afterburner frigate to orbit it. If stopped, you won't be able to track it at all, at an orbit, you should be able to track it some. Then try these:
3) Approaching or "keep at range" will reduce angular speed to an orbiting opponent helping you to do more damage. If you're having trouble getting your dps on a target, this is the less effective of these two methods of increasing it. If your opponent is trying to get away, this is your best option. 4) The most effective way to increase damage on an orbiting target that you can't seem to track is just to fly in a straight line (double click in space). Even if you couldn't hit a target at all while it was orbiting, you can often obtain decent DPS just by flying in a straight line because their orbits bottom-out behind you and then they fly straight up your tail.
Of course, you still have to manage range when you do these. Your best damage range with guns is to be right at "optimal."
(This and other maneuver tricks are the reason I tell people that an AB is both the best tank and damage mod in the game).
(I have been flying a Punisher lately and the lazors track so badly, this is a required skillset. I don't think I could kill anything if I was trying to orbit my opponents) |
Mobadder Thworst
The Eviction Mandate Eviction Imminent
1022
|
Posted - 2016.11.29 14:34:56 -
[14] - Quote
Serendipity, Leto, Noragen, and Bronson - Thanks for the vouches. If I say anything stupid, please correct it.
Clonekiller - Everyone is welcome. I have yet to see a mercenary group where everyone understands maneuver mechanics and I've participated in many respected merc groups over the years. I bet you have a few members who could benefit as well. I suspect you may even know some of my old students.
Noragen - Yes, this is very much like "No Newbro Left Behind". Veers would be proud. I need to petition to get permanent access to the rookie chat so I can reach more newbros. Nothing retains newbros like newbro pirates ganking innocent newbros.
It's like a newbro retention storm.
I actually had an incident a few years ago where I trained a newbro who had like 2 million SP but could fly a frigate pretty well. After an hour or two of instruction I left for the weekend.
When I got back, I found he had murdered a substantial fraction of Caldari Space. I'm going to say 30+ kills, but I can't recall exactly (this isn't hub humping, he was flipping and getting fights, may have been a war dec or two open). I remember being shocked.
Newbro pirates are the best pirates. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
2696
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Posted - 2016.11.29 15:13:54 -
[15] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:Serendipity, Leto, Noragen, and Bronson - Thanks for the vouches. If I say anything stupid, please correct it. Of course. I'll try not to add my 0.02 ISK too often. This is your thread after all.
Relatively Notorious By Association
My Many Misadventures
I predicted FAUXs
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Noragen Neirfallas
Rabble Inc. Legio De Mortem
3283
|
Posted - 2016.11.29 20:20:36 -
[16] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:Serendipity, Leto, Noragen, and Bronson - Thanks for the vouches. If I say anything stupid, please correct it.
Clonekiller - Everyone is welcome. I have yet to see a mercenary group where everyone understands maneuver mechanics and I've participated in many respected merc groups over the years. I bet you have a few members who could benefit as well. I suspect you may even know some of my old students.
Noragen - Yes, this is very much like "No Newbro Left Behind". Veers would be proud. I need to petition to get permanent access to the rookie chat so I can reach more newbros. Nothing retains newbros like newbro pirates ganking innocent newbros.
It's like a newbro retention storm.
I actually had an incident a few years ago where I trained a newbro who had like 2 million SP but could fly a frigate pretty well. After an hour or two of instruction I left for the weekend.
When I got back, I found he had murdered a substantial fraction of Caldari Space. I'm going to say 30+ kills, but I can't recall exactly (this isn't hub humping, he was flipping and getting fights, may have been a war dec or two open). I remember being shocked.
Newbro pirates are the best pirates. Um... I can perhaps arrange something in regards to rookie chat. Mail me if that was serious cause there are certain guidelines to that
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
ISD Max Trix favourite ISD
'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King-Griffin
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Jimmy Savile II
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.11.29 21:37:05 -
[17] - Quote
You look like a pedophile. And you sound grumpy as hell. Would not waste my precious time with you. Newbros would quit the game if they decide to play your sexual twisted mind games. |
Noragen Neirfallas
Rabble Inc. Legio De Mortem
3287
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Posted - 2016.11.29 22:30:51 -
[18] - Quote
Jimmy Savile II wrote:You look like a pedophile. And you sound grumpy as hell. Anybody else feel like the kettle just called the pot black?
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
ISD Max Trix favourite ISD
'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King-Griffin
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
27096
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Posted - 2016.11.29 22:45:12 -
[19] - Quote
Jimmy Savile II wrote:You look like a pedophile. And you sound grumpy as hell. Would not waste my precious time with you. Newbros would quit the game if they decide to play your sexual twisted mind games. Too old?
BTW I wouldn't expect to keep the name long, but given that you chose it you're almost certainly a troll.
Civilised behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Moon Moon Burdy
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
223
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Posted - 2016.11.29 23:18:15 -
[20] - Quote
Jimmy Savile II wrote:You look like a pedophile. And you sound grumpy as hell. Would not waste my precious time with you. Newbros would quit the game if they decide to play your sexual twisted mind games.
Come on now. This is a righteous thread full of goodstuff. The door's thataway, Nitshe. Get out.
Things that went boom
Storytime with Moon Moon New stories semi frequently-ish!
Promising Young Murderer, Education Appreciated.
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Mobadder Thworst
The Eviction Mandate Eviction Imminent
1028
|
Posted - 2016.11.30 16:41:07 -
[21] - Quote
Thought of the day:
Tank selection- buffer or repair (active or passive)
The decision to be a buffer tank or repair tank is a simple decision of how long it will last in the situation you will put it in.
If you are trying to tank a Raven with T2 modules, for instance, you can either have 100k EHP with very little repair (buffer fit) or 30k EHP with 1000 hp/s repair (repair fit).
If you are taking low damage (less than 1000 dps), the repair tank lasts forever and the buffer tank lasts ~100 seconds or more. Therefore, the rep tank is better.
If you are taking high damage (2000 dps), the rep tank lasts 30 seconds and the buffer tank lasts 50 seconds. The case prefers the buffer tank.
If you are taking 10k dps, the rep tank lasts 3 seconds, the buffer tank lasts 10. (Fleet scenario). Buffer tanks are typically strongly preferred in fits that will take fleet damage.
As a generalization, rep tanks are best in scenarios where you can control inbound damage. This includes kite fits, pve, 1v1 fits sometimes, etc... Selecting this type of tank requires strong consideration of how you will pilot the craft to avoid high dps. Typically, this build for pvp requires high speeds and ranges to survive, as close range against a brawler opponent will rarely go well.
Buffer tanks are better for station games, fleets, and large scale activity where you are likely to encounter large quantities of DPS. They also require very little thought and cap management, which makes them easier to fly when you are new to pvp and your fingers get shaky.
Additional notes: I consider auxiliary boosters to be buffer components because they can't sustain rep. Think of them as a finite (but nice) addition to your EHP. They are useful, and good components, but they are effectively buffer components.
Shield vs armor: Shield components increase sig radius. This is bad when you are fighting larger ships and is something you need to think about when flying something with a huge sig radius. However, they don't affect your speed and can be preferable in speed builds (which don't require as many mid slot components to control range.
I prefer shield for kites and it is relevant in mid-range builds.
Armor components decrease speed. This is bad when you are relying on speed to keep you alive. Brawlers usually expect to be heavily webbed and scrammed, so the speed drawback isn't as much of a concern. Also, brawlers typically need web, scram, AB, and as many additional mid slot components as possible. Armor mods allow for that because they fit low slots.
I prefer armor for close range brawlers and it is still very relevant in mid range builds. |
Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
4328
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Posted - 2016.12.01 05:12:28 -
[22] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:Serendipity, Leto, Noragen, and Bronson - Thanks for the vouches. If I say anything stupid, please correct it.
Pfft. I have been out of practice so long I may take the damn class myself.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
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Mobadder Thworst
The Eviction Mandate Eviction Imminent
1032
|
Posted - 2016.12.01 14:35:55 -
[23] - Quote
Thought of the day: The selection of guns vs missiles is an important decision when flying a speed build (interceptors, nano boats, etc..),
When making this decision, I would consider the following strengths of guns and missiles.
Missiles: Long range missiles give you the ability to shoot far and project your damage reasonably well... but not against targets that are moving fast (due to the speed damage reduction of (explosion velocity)/(target velocity)).
If something tries to catch you at 2400m/s.... missiles will not be effective at projecting damage on that target because the speed factor damage reduction will be huge. If you don't believe me, try it with a friend. This makes it hard for high speed missile boats to defend themselves against high speed gun boats. A very important realization if you want to fly a crow or nano-drake.
However, if you are relying on staying 15k away from your target to keep you alive, the effectiveness of missiles at long range make it easier to maneuver safely during an engagement. That long range is great for harassing heavy fleets that cannot catch you.
These ships are also a LOT of fun to fly.
Guns Guns are MUCH more defensible at high speed because chasing you implies flying straight up your tail with no angular velocity (perfect gun tracking scenario). Whatever damage you have will be nearly perfectly applied on any fast ship you're 1) Chasing 2) Running from
I spent a lot of time in the nano-cane a few years ago. The beauty of the nano-cane was that nothing that could easily catch it could take more than a few shots from the autocannons... it was too much DPS for anything small to take. Now, it couldn't hold ground against a well tanked cruiser, but you could fly around a fleet and pop all the tackles with relative safety.
As per my previous discussion, I don't typically recommend short range guns with MWD, so you're not going to see a lot of short range speed builds from me.
I am a big fan of tracking enhanced autocannons (can get good range and tracking out of that) for this type of build, but range is critical because you need to be able to operate efficiently outside 15k and inside 24k.
Summary At high speed, missile boats struggle to defend themselves against things that go similar speed. Gun boats don't have that problem, but lack the luxurious engagement profile of long range missiles.
Combined Effort
Some of the best fighting I ever did was when I combined a high-speed gun boat with a friend who was flying a high-speed missile boat. By keeping them close together, you can hold the field against a larger force and the missile boat can shoot from long range harassing a fleet. The gun boat can clean up any little tackles that try to chase you down.
Concerning the speed team like this, it's a lot of fun but just keep them close together. The missile boat is extremely vulnerable to fast tackles and the gun boat can't really harass a fleet effectively. Used together, it's a good mix.
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2373
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Posted - 2016.12.01 15:03:55 -
[24] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Mobadder Thworst wrote:Serendipity, Leto, Noragen, and Bronson - Thanks for the vouches. If I say anything stupid, please correct it.
Pfft. I have been out of practice so long I may take the damn class myself.
He said T1 frigs in HS. If I catch you there in one of the 3 thanatos carriers you owe me..... it will be dealt with. |
Noragen Neirfallas
Rabble Inc. Legio De Mortem
3311
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Posted - 2016.12.01 20:15:18 -
[25] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Leto Thule wrote:Mobadder Thworst wrote:Serendipity, Leto, Noragen, and Bronson - Thanks for the vouches. If I say anything stupid, please correct it.
Pfft. I have been out of practice so long I may take the damn class myself. He said T1 frigs in HS. If I catch you there in one of the 3 thanatos carriers you owe me..... it will be dealt with. Or with a tranny. That too will be dealt with
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
ISD Max Trix favourite ISD
'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King-Griffin
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
2704
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Posted - 2016.12.01 21:48:37 -
[26] - Quote
Oh look, someone going fast and straight to kill traversal.
Comically.
Relatively Notorious By Association
My Many Misadventures
I predicted FAUXs
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Mortlake
Devils Rejects 666
2602
|
Posted - 2016.12.01 22:45:49 -
[27] - Quote
DON'T FUCK1NG TURN
I was told to remove my signature, so I have.
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
2706
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Posted - 2016.12.01 22:48:12 -
[28] - Quote
OR YOU'LL SLINGSHOT YOURSELF OUT OF THE ******* SOLAR SYSTEM
These videos are hysterical....
Relatively Notorious By Association
My Many Misadventures
I predicted FAUXs
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Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
1939
|
Posted - 2016.12.01 23:58:16 -
[29] - Quote
I endorse this product and service. Mo is the legit dude, you'll learn a lot.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
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Mobadder Thworst
The Eviction Mandate Eviction Imminent
1042
|
Posted - 2016.12.02 14:23:10 -
[30] - Quote
Thought of the day; Neutralizers are good equipment that just aren't as relevant as they used to be. I used to consider neutralizers to be a replacement for DPS in many scenarios because you could turn off so much of your opponent's tank that 2-3 appropriately sized neutralizers could speed up kills... Even if you gave up DPS to make them fit.
With the damage control becoming a passive mod, you are really only in a position to turn off active tank mods, so the reduction in expected EHP when you cap out an enemy is not nearly as much and tiers ice ensured there aren't as many ships that can hold 2 or 3 neural without a major damage reduction.
If you are using multiple neutralizers, start them at intervals so they hit about even distance apart. Ex: 3 large neutralizers with a cycle time of 24 seconds would need to be turned on 8 seconds apart so they take cap every 8 seconds. This makes the cap a LOT harder to manage.
I now think of the neut as a maneuver control mod (mostly to allow mid-range ships). I'm not willing to give up as much DPS to get neutralizers now that they don't have as much capacity to speed up kills.
They are still very effective when employed against close range brawlers to give you back maneuver capacity to kill the brawler from range. It takes a good tank to play this way, but you can let a brawler beat on you while you cap him out.. Then pull back out of his effective range and finish the job.
Brawlers need a web, scram, and AB most of the time. the ones with a 4th mid slot may have a cap booster, but mostly I find those on active tanks. If your whole strategy relies on capping your enemy out, it is a good idea to know how many mid slots your opponent has.
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