Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
|
Virrago
ISD BH Interstellar Services Department
|
Posted - 2007.04.04 19:00:00 -
[1]
The EVE-Online Bug Hunting team is now accepting applications for new Bug Hunters. We're known as ECAID (Equipment Certification and Anomaly Investigations Division), and our primary job is to test aspects of the game to iron out the bugs before new features are launched on the live server, Tranquility. Requirements:
- Good understanding of EVE mechanics.
- A mininum of 4 months playing EVE.
- Mininum 18 years of age
- English proficiency.
- IRC experience is preferred but not completely necessary.
- Singularity (test server) participation (with good quality bug reports) is a major plus.
You don't have to be an English major but you will have to know enough english to communicate, as you'll often be cooperating with other Bug Hunters/ISD.
An application with well-written answers is a plus for you and us. Applicants using trial accounts will not be considered.
Applications can be submitted via the EVE Online website: Click the 'Interstellar Services Department' button in the 'EVE Insider' section of the site navigation menu, and then click the 'send in your application' link. Please take care in filling out this application, because the more information you include.. the better your chances of being considered for the program. and be sure to check the "What area are you interested in volunteering for?" for question 5 Note: When writing your application, it is strongly recommended that you do so in a word processing application, as this is often a timely process and losing your application because of a browser crash or the application process resets is extremely frustrating.
If you have any questions feel free to email [email protected] or post here
[Bug Report Here] - [How to write a good bugreport] - [Contact Us] |
|
Damon Ra
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.04.04 19:30:00 -
[2]
A good idea.
However, what does one receive specifically in terms of compensation for performing CCP's QA/QC job for them?
Current Tranquility status: SELECT production_code FROM SISI WHERE testers = 'players' AND testers <> 'ccp_staff' AND testing_duration <> 'sufficient'; |
|
BH Runner
ISD BH Interstellar Services Department
|
Posted - 2007.04.04 19:34:00 -
[3]
Apply, suceed in your application, then find out.
[Bug Report Here] - [Contact Us] |
|
Damon Ra
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.04.04 19:36:00 -
[4]
Originally by: BH Runner Apply, suceed in your application, then find out.
LOL... Good luck with that, and no thank you.
Current Tranquility status: SELECT production_code FROM SISI WHERE testers = 'players' AND testers <> 'ccp_staff' AND testing_duration <> 'sufficient'; |
Jimer Lins
Gallente Sanctuary
|
Posted - 2007.04.04 20:33:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Damon Ra A good idea.
However, what does one receive specifically in terms of compensation for performing CCP's QA/QC job for them?
As someone who works in bug reporting systems and processing for a living, it's not a question of doing the QA team's job. In software, there is no substitute- *none* - for user testing. The best testers in the world simply can't cover every angle, and the cost to field a team that can cover more and more is prohibitive.
It's not just about bug reports either. It's about user acceptance, finding interaction and integration problems, and getting the people who are going to use the thing to get their paws on it first.
I sincerely doubt you'll be compensated in anything but goodwill and advance information about what's coming by spending time working with new and upcoming stuff. If that's not appropriate compensation, well- don't volunteer.
Me, I work with bug reports all day, every day and most weekends, and it's not exactly what I want to do when I play games, or I'd give it some consideration.
|
Sheriff Jones
|
Posted - 2007.04.04 20:39:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 04/04/2007 20:40:02 Well, i've worked over a year in professional quality assurance(solo) on another project. Got my own systems, processes and thingies(technical term) in how i go about it and would probably be efficient...that being said...
I got paid near 2k euro for doing it, it wasn't that glamorous(as the coders and graphic artists can be quite "girlie" about their produce(joke ) and people see you as a glorified tester. And i doubt, as i'm hunting for a designer job, that i could efficiently do it on my free time if i do get a job.
Good way to reqruit, and best of luck in finding the "hard ones" to do it, but without telling some sort of rewards, it's going to be a long hunt as people stop applying right after they get "disappointed" by the reward. Anyway, good luck with it and i'll see if i can muster the time to consider.
EDIT: Oh by the way, i'm not dissing the job, it's a great job if you have the bahatma for it and are not afraid of repeatative "hunting". I remember spending one day trying to hunt down how the game crashed due to shooting a tree, and when i did, the satisfaction was very fulfilling. Just giving my two cents on it all.
Originally by: Curzon Dax 1. I am not singing Ducktales.
|
Jimer Lins
Gallente Sanctuary
|
Posted - 2007.04.04 20:53:00 -
[7]
Apropos of absolutely nothing- I seem to recall a dev or forum mod for SWG named "Virrago". Same person?
|
Damon Ra
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.04.04 21:48:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Jimer Lins
As someone who works in bug reporting systems and processing for a living, it's not a question of doing the QA team's job. In software, there is no substitute- *none* - for user testing. The best testers in the world simply can't cover every angle, and the cost to field a team that can cover more and more is prohibitive.
Agreed, 100%. I too have worn the bughunter's and QA/QC hat many times in my lengthy software development career.
However, CCP is regularly rolling out new code to the paying playerbase that has obviously not been tested throughly by people who actually play the game. This seems to be in direct contridiction to what CCP's CEO has stated about why their employees must be allowed to play the game right alongside of the paying players. Having more paying players involved in bug hunting in a more formal capacity is a fantastic idea, but at the end of the day you get what you "pay" for in regards to how well these volunteers will actually do the work at hand. Then we are back to having really dumb bugs creep back into the game because CCP thought things were throughly tested by the new bughunters, when in reality that didn't exactly happen.
In a nutshell, if CCP wants people who already pay to play the game to do their bughunting in an official capacity for them, they should at the very least:
1) Give players who perform this task in the new "official" capacity something tangible in return, and make exactly what that is, known to all.
2)Install some real bug submission and tracking software where the poster of the bug (and perhaps all players) can see the most basic status of what is happening, i.e. bug verified/unverified, bug being worked on, bug squashed.
Current Tranquility status: SELECT production_code FROM SISI WHERE testers = 'players' AND testers <> 'ccp_staff' AND testing_duration <> 'sufficient'; |
Jimer Lins
Gallente Sanctuary
|
Posted - 2007.04.04 21:59:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Damon Ra Agreed, 100%. I too have worn the bughunter's and QA/QC hat many times in my lengthy software development career.
However, CCP is regularly rolling out new code to the paying playerbase that has obviously not been tested throughly by people who actually play the game. This seems to be in direct contridiction to what CCP's CEO has stated about why their employees must be allowed to play the game right alongside of the paying players. Having more paying players involved in bug hunting in a more formal capacity is a fantastic idea, but at the end of the day you get what you "pay" for in regards to how well these volunteers will actually do the work at hand. Then we are back to having really dumb bugs creep back into the game because CCP thought things were throughly tested by the new bughunters, when in reality that didn't exactly happen.
In a nutshell, if CCP wants people who already pay to play the game to do their bughunting in an official capacity for them, they should at the very least:
1) Give players who perform this task in the new "official" capacity something tangible in return, and make exactly what that is, known to all.
2)Install some real bug submission and tracking software where the poster of the bug (and perhaps all players) can see the most basic status of what is happening, i.e. bug verified/unverified, bug being worked on, bug squashed.
It's a balancing act, they release with known issues so they can get something out the door; you can't do something this complex without the perspective that bugs are going to be present.
Now, bug tracking and submission- that's where I'm an expert (it's what I do for a living, I don't hunt them, I write tools for people who do), and it's a MASSIVE undertaking to do something like that. I agree it's a great concept but speaking from experience, a tool that tracks bug status, resolution and so forth for the submitter is a lot simpler on paper than it is to make or even integrate. CCP might look at integrating something that already exists, but they have to ask the question of where they want to spend their finite resources. And they already have tools in-house, and there's a lot of inertia associated with an existing toolset.
And yeah, it's nice when you know what you'll be getting, I guess, but the ISD stuff is all volunteers. I'd be a bughunter myself if I didn't prefer to avoid anything to do with development in my few off hours. ;)
|
Damon Ra
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.04.04 22:20:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Jimer Lins
Now, bug tracking and submission- that's where I'm an expert (it's what I do for a living, I don't hunt them, I write tools for people who do), and it's a MASSIVE undertaking to do something like that. I agree it's a great concept but speaking from experience, a tool that tracks bug status, resolution and so forth for the submitter is a lot simpler on paper than it is to make or even integrate.
Right, I was speaking about providing only the most basic of bug status information back to the submitter. Flyspray and about a half dozen (lightweight) open source bug tracking packages I can think of off the top of my head already do this. I am not suggesting the submitter get all the dirty details, just the basic status stuff I mentioned.
a) Bug is verified/unverified b) Bug is being worked on c) Bug is fixed
Item c above is really important so that the submitter can retest the problem.
Originally by: Jimer Lins
And yeah, it's nice when you know what you'll be getting, I guess, but the ISD stuff is all volunteers. I'd be a bughunter myself if I didn't prefer to avoid anything to do with development in my few off hours. ;)
My point exactly, I pay to play the game for entertainment, and probably 99.99% of everyone else who pays is in the same boat with me. What possible motivation will that 99.99% have to perform this WORK after the short-term warm fuzzy feeling that "I am helping!" fades away in a week or less?
When you only have volunteers doing this sort of critical work, you will get exactly what you "pay" for.
Current Tranquility status: SELECT production_code FROM SISI WHERE testers = 'players' AND testers <> 'ccp_staff' AND testing_duration <> 'sufficient'; |
|
Jimer Lins
Gallente Sanctuary
|
Posted - 2007.04.04 22:28:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Damon Ra
When you only have volunteers doing this sort of critical work, you will get exactly what you "pay" for.
Some people like playing with the shiny new toys and helping to drive the experience everyone gets. Others like feeling like they're part of something and contributing.
I imagine there's some rewards to the program, although I honestly don't know what they are. However, I feel we've jacked this thread enough by now. ;)
|
|
ReverendM
Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department
|
Posted - 2007.04.04 23:04:00 -
[12]
*:Shuffles out the Janitors and posts a Marine squad:* Cleaned up a bit. As a recruitment post, it is for questions regarding the Bughunters Vol unit - not how it should be run. If you do have any ideas, please do head to the Features and Ideas forum and write them out there.
-ReverendM
|
|
testonly
|
Posted - 2007.04.05 01:41:00 -
[13]
Edited by: testonly on 05/04/2007 01:38:02 The Bug is on your ISD signup application Does not say that ALL fields must be filled in.....i took a good time to fill that all out and now after trying to submit "page 3" says please fill in all boxes. and on going back.....all fields have been wiped.....cheers And yeah i know i should of done it in a wordpad or something.....*shrugs* Guess ill never become a BH..........
*using diff char name to keep identity hidden*
|
Kat Dinahk
|
Posted - 2007.04.05 11:07:00 -
[14]
You should of used a word processor to fill out your answers and pasted them as suggested in the op, comunicate is not one of your strong points I'm guessing :p
|
|
Eldo Davip
Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department
|
Posted - 2007.04.05 13:12:00 -
[15]
Originally by: testonly Edited by: testonly on 05/04/2007 01:38:02 The Bug is on your ISD signup application Does not say that ALL fields must be filled in.....i took a good time to fill that all out and now after trying to submit "page 3" says please fill in all boxes. and on going back.....all fields have been wiped.....cheers And yeah i know i should of done it in a wordpad or something.....*shrugs* Guess ill never become a BH..........
*using diff char name to keep identity hidden*
Originally by: Virrago Note: When writing your application, it is strongly recommended that you do so in a word processing application, as this is often a timely process and losing your application because of a browser crash or the application process resets is extremely frustrating.
___
EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER
|
|
Arcadia1701
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2007.04.06 04:11:00 -
[16]
w00t applied lol. How long does it take to hear back, and by what means? email? eve mail? convo ingame or what :P? carrier pigeon? lol My sig>
**Post with your main or STFU ** |
Gladia Horusthu
Gallente Anything Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.04.07 00:41:00 -
[17]
I was involved in the beta for Eve, and I can tell you that there is something very rewarding in watching something you were involved even peripherally with bear fruit. One of the reasons I keep coming back (though always with a new toon) is because of the sense of ownership that I somehow acquired.
Eh, maybe I'll download the latest Sisi patch and hop on it. Not sure if I have a current account old enough to qualify though....
|
Kyguard
Fire Mandrill
|
Posted - 2007.04.08 04:23:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Kyguard on 08/04/2007 04:19:04 Might give it a try.
Quick question though: how much time is required to be spent on sisi or is there some kind of weekly bug report requirement? -
WeComeInPeace Video |
Kyguard
Fire Mandrill
|
Posted - 2007.04.08 04:23:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Kyguard on 08/04/2007 04:19:04 Might give it a try.
Quick question though: how much time is required to be spent on sisi or is there some kind of weekly bug report requirement? -
WeComeInPeace Video |
|
BH Runner
ISD BH Interstellar Services Department
|
Posted - 2007.04.08 10:50:00 -
[20]
We monitor submitted bug reports, defects created, bug reports filtered for both quantity and quality. We also track irc activity, sisi time, and sanity checks performed. In essence we monitor quantity, whilst keeping note of quality. Quality is what is important at the end of the day, spending 4 or 5 hours tracking down a single issue and finding how to accurately reproduce it is more beneficial than trashing 30 poor quality bugreports.
[Bug Report Here] - [Contact Us] |
|
|
Aidelon
Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2007.04.08 14:16:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Aidelon on 08/04/2007 14:14:30 Edited by: Aidelon on 08/04/2007 14:14:10
Originally by: Jimer Lins Apropos of absolutely nothing- I seem to recall a dev or forum mod for SWG named "Virrago". Same person?
I'd be interested to know this too! I met the swg Virrago at the correspondent summit in Austin, cool guy, fun to hang with! Would be cool if he played eve too!
As far as this program goes...What type of testing? Would it just be test server, or are we talking an internal server? Any specific tools that we would be given to help track bugs/report them, or is it just general playtesting once it hits test server?
|
Dillon Arklight
Shinra Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2007.04.08 20:58:00 -
[22]
I have a one day ban from EVE for bug exploitation. When I applied for ISD they refused my application because of this ban, does the same rule apply for ECAID?
(serious question btw)
|
|
Virrago
ISD BH Interstellar Services Department
|
Posted - 2007.04.09 04:20:00 -
[23]
Quote:
I'd be interested to know this too! I met the swg Virrago at the correspondent summit in Austin, cool guy, fun to hang with! Would be cool if he played eve too!
Nope, that is a different Virrago. Sorry!
Quote:
As far as this program goes...What type of testing? Would it just be test server, or are we talking an internal server? Any specific tools that we would be given to help track bugs/report them, or is it just general playtesting once it hits test server?
For the most part it is on the sisi and we do have different tools to help us with our work.
If you have any other questions about this email us, email is in my sig
Originally by: Dillon Arklight Edited by: Dillon Arklight on 08/04/2007 21:16:31 Edited by: Dillon Arklight on 08/04/2007 21:15:57 I have had a one day ban from EVE for bug exploitation. When I applied for ISD they refused my application because of this ban, does the same rule apply for ECAID?
email us about this, [email protected]
[Bug Report Here] - [How to write a good bugreport] - [Contact Us] |
|
Arcadia1701
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2007.04.09 05:33:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Arcadia1701 on 09/04/2007 05:30:04
Originally by: BH Runner We monitor submitted bug reports, defects created, bug reports filtered for both quantity and quality. We also track irc activity, sisi time, and sanity checks performed. In essence we monitor quantity, whilst keeping note of quality. Quality is what is important at the end of the day, spending 4 or 5 hours tracking down a single issue and finding how to accurately reproduce it is more beneficial than trashing 30 poor quality bugreports.
Sanity checks . Iv failed already then OMG . Seriously though, how long and by what means do I hear back, if I filled in the online form? As for IRC, iv got a perminaty un registered nick name, iv tried 5 times with differnt reg lol. sigh. My sig>
**Post with your main or STFU ** |
BlackHawk177
Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire
|
Posted - 2007.04.09 15:07:00 -
[25]
Edited by: BlackHawk177 on 09/04/2007 15:03:52 It will be by Email, and it can be a couple days or longer depending on how many people actually apply, Just be patient.
|
Na'Khan
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2007.04.12 12:31:00 -
[26]
Originally by: BH Runner We monitor submitted bug reports, defects created, bug reports filtered for both quantity and quality. We also track irc activity, sisi time, and sanity checks performed. In essence we monitor quantity, whilst keeping note of quality. Quality is what is important at the end of the day, spending 4 or 5 hours tracking down a single issue and finding how to accurately reproduce it is more beneficial than trashing 30 poor quality bugreports.
Where does play EVE on your main come in? Seems like alot of work, people should get free subscriptions
|
Eralus
|
Posted - 2007.04.12 21:47:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Damon Ra their employees must be allowed to play the game right alongside of the paying players.
There is no reason for this. If CCP employees need to play to know how the game works, they can play on the test server.
Letting them be in the real game just gives them a personal incentive to code the game in a way that benefits their play-style. _____ Lifewire is a big, ugly, mean... carebear. |
Asestorian
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2007.04.13 17:56:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Eralus Letting them be in the real game just gives them a personal incentive to code the game in a way that benefits their play-style.
Which, by the way, is every play-style there is. The test server is not useful for finding out how people actually play the game.
However, this isn't the correct thread to be discussing this in.
---
---
|
Damon Ra
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.04.14 02:57:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Damon Ra on 14/04/2007 02:55:06
Originally by: Eralus
Originally by: Damon Ra their employees must be allowed to play the game right alongside of the paying players.
There is no reason for this. If CCP employees need to play to know how the game works, they can play on the test server.
Letting them be in the real game just gives them a personal incentive to code the game in a way that benefits their play-style.
You might have made a better point had you not taken what I said out of context, by snipping the important part.
Originally by: Damon Ra
This seems to be in direct contridiction to what CCP's CEO has stated about why their employees must be allowed to play the game right alongside of the paying players.
What I am saying is that CCP can't have it both ways claiming their staff *needs* to be able to play the "real" game at all levels, while at the same time they are offloading what is likely the majority of the actual bug testing onto volunteers.
Not to knock the volunteers who are doing this work for the right reasons, but volunteers are not trained, are not paid, and will thus have poor motivation to stick with it and/or do a thurough job..
When CCP's next patches come out with even more "stupid" lingering bugs like the market and email bugs what I am saying may start to make more sense.
Current Tranquility status: SELECT production_code FROM SISI WHERE testers = 'players' AND testers <> 'ccp_staff' AND testing_duration <> 'sufficient'; |
|
Virrago
ISD BH Interstellar Services Department
|
Posted - 2007.04.14 04:57:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Damon Ra
Not to knock the volunteers who are doing this work for the right reasons, but volunteers are not trained, are not paid, and will thus have poor motivation to stick with it and/or do a thurough job..
We are trained and if our motivation was exiguous we wouldn't be volunteering our time would we.
This thread is for recruiting volunteers for the ISD Bug Hunter team and answering relevant questions not for off-topic discussions.
Thank you
[Bug Report Here] - [How to write a good bugreport] - [Contact Us] |
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |