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F2P Restrictions are too great

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Lunavera Poxicon Mission Ready Mining TRUE VINE 0	Posted - 2016.12.02 13:59:15 - [1] - Quote Just throwing out my opinion here. I was so excited to hear about clone states and EVE going F2P. I knew there would be some restrictions as most MMOs that were once paid subs going F2P take that route. I missed playing this game and couldn't wait to log in again. Right away it was clear the restrictions were heavy. Not being able to use ships I already had as well as equipment or even mining drones. I decided to give it a shot regardless and just play with what was available to see what kind of experience I could still get as an alpha state. In my opinion, it is already too limiting after only 15 days of play. Subs in gaming are going away. It was a great model 10 years ago, but now that players don't want to sink all of their time into a single game, play multiple genres, game with friends who have migrated to other games, don't have the money or even simply don't see the value in spending $10-15 per month on an item when they have choices that are one time purchases of $30-60. Clearly EVE took a step in the right direction. My account is 5 years old and I haven't been playing for several years; now I am. The question is will I be playing in a month or two and my current feeling is no I probably will not be. Players will spend money on vanity items. Ship skins. Avatar items. Immediate unlocks. Spell effects or in this case projectile/laser effects. If a player just started and they want a ship bad enough, they will drop the $2.99 you are selling it for rather than saving money up. They will spend the $.99 you are charging to quick train a skill that takes days otherwise. Other successful games offer that without a single limitation to the game and have more than 25,0000 players logged in at any given time. The other option is to sell the game in its entirety up front with a trial available. Once it is purchased, no limitation. This model works very well too. The current clone state offer is okay, but by no means enough to bring a player like me here for a long period of time. Which, I acknowledge that is just my opinion and only 1 of thousands. Maybe the current model works for EVE and you achieved exactly what you wanted. You have a really great game, but the way I see it, for me, I already spent 4-5 months as a subscriber here years ago and eventually it wasn't worth the monthly cost. Putting limitations on the game as heavy as you did ensures players like me won't be here long. Enjoying the game regardless, just disappointed in the heavy limitations.
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders 4480	Posted - 2016.12.02 14:12:29 - [2] - Quote TL;DR 'EVE is not free enough for me' Seriously though, now that the mechanics are there CCP can easily enrich their F2P model, for example with progressive skill unlocks, aka beta, gamma, delta clones etc. From a business point of view, it's not easy to balance & compare one-off transactions with monthly subs, so CCP is wise to take this one step at a time. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Serafiel Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 19	Posted - 2016.12.02 14:15:24 - [3] - Quote Lunavera Poxicon wrote: (too pricey for me rant cut) World Of Tanks is that way -----------> Now, can I have your stuff ?
Toobo Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium 322	Posted - 2016.12.02 14:15:25 - [4] - Quote On a different topic, purely cosmetic microtransactions and money sinks can work very well too if done right, as proven in various other commercially successful games. I'm not too fussed about alpha accounts game play, while some things are limited there were other things limited as trial accounts as well. But I do think more expansions on cosmetic things could be good, not just ship SKINS. "When faced with my demons, I clothe them and feed them, and I smile, yes I smile as they are taking me over" - Strange Glue
Serafiel Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 20	Posted - 2016.12.02 14:17:43 - [5] - Quote Toobo wrote: On a different topic, purely cosmetic microtransactions and money sinks can work very well too if done right, as proven in various other commercially successful games. I'm not too fussed about alpha accounts game play, while some things are limited there were other things limited as trial accounts as well. But I do think more expansions on cosmetic things could be good, not just ship SKINS. True, but if you compare median player age of those "other games" and EVE...you might see the difference and the problem: Adults tend not to throw money on bullshit like that.
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 8185	Posted - 2016.12.02 14:19:52 - [6] - Quote "CCP GIVE ME MORE FREE STUFF NAOW!!!" No, the restrictions are not too great at all. You are actually getting a whole lot of game for free. A whole lot more than you've paid for. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Akrasjel Lanate Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate 1938	Posted - 2016.12.02 14:31:17 - [7] - Quote This is another example what happens then you call things different than they actually are... F2P instead Unlimited Trial as it should be. Wonder who was this idea that ex-EA marketing person that joined CCP. Akrasjel Lanate Founder and CEO of Naquatech Conglomerate Executor of Naquatech Syndicate Citizen of Solitude
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 8186	Posted - 2016.12.02 14:41:46 - [8] - Quote Akrasjel Lanate wrote: This is another example a culture of gamer entitlement resulting from the abusive F2P microtransaction schemes that EA are notorious for. FTFY. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Nalia White Tencus 211	Posted - 2016.12.02 14:47:40 - [9] - Quote aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand another one... it's slowly even getting on my nervs now...
mkint 1272	Posted - 2016.12.02 14:50:15 - [10] - Quote "restrictions too great" No they aren't. You just suck at having fun. Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Kojee Sex and Coke Party Negative Ten. 49	Posted - 2016.12.02 14:50:41 - [11] - Quote Nalia White wrote: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand another one... it's slowly even getting on my nervs now... ***** right? God damn. PAY FOR THE *** SUB IF YOU WANT TO USE ALL YOUR **.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 14964	Posted - 2016.12.02 14:51:35 - [12] - Quote Lunavera Poxicon wrote: Just throwing out my opinion here. I was so excited to hear about clone states and EVE going F2P. I knew there would be some restrictions as most MMOs that were once paid subs going F2P take that route. I missed playing this game and couldn't wait to log in again. Right away it was clear the restrictions were heavy. Not being able to use ships I already had as well as equipment or even mining drones. I decided to give it a shot regardless and just play with what was available to see what kind of experience I could still get as an alpha state. I did not finish reading your post. I underlined why. EVE's F2P scheme is for NEW PLAYERS. Vets can use it. but at severe restrictions. Those restrictions exist to entice people to pay money to have them lifted, because CCP is a company (not a charity) and they need to make money to keep the game running. If you want to use the stuff you already have, pony up the 50 cents per day it takes to pay for Omega state. 50 cents is, btw, 4 minutes and some change of working a minimum wage ($7.25 per hour) job if you are in the United States. Might be more in some other country.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 14964	Posted - 2016.12.02 14:53:49 - [13] - Quote Akrasjel Lanate wrote: This is another example what happens then you call things different than they actually are... F2P instead Unlimited Trial as it should be. Wonder who was this idea that ex-EA marketing person that joined CCP. Must be new here, because even if you call it "unlimited trial" there would be posts here saying "the unlimited trial is too limited, I can't use my hulk on the Unlimited Trial and i should be able to!!!". People are exactly that selfish and greedy..
Lunavera Poxicon Mission Ready Mining TRUE VINE 0	Posted - 2016.12.02 15:15:03 - [14] - Quote I respect your opinions, even if I disagree with them. Thank you.
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs 6539	Posted - 2016.12.02 15:15:33 - [15] - Quote " F2P Restrictions are too great" * 6 Frigates + 2 Navy Frigates * 2 Destroyers * 4 Cruisers + 2 Navy Cruisers * 1 Mining Frigate * 2 Industrial if Caldari Bonus: * 1 Battlecruiser (Gnosis) Other * 4 Corvette * 4 Shuttle * Miscellaneous others (e.g. Primae)
Lunavera Poxicon Mission Ready Mining TRUE VINE 0	Posted - 2016.12.02 15:20:21 - [16] - Quote Tau Cabalander wrote: " F2P Restrictions are too great" * 6 Frigates + 2 Navy Frigates * 2 Destroyers * 4 Cruisers + 2 Navy Cruisers * 1 Mining Frigate * 2 Industrial if Caldari Bonus: * 1 Battlecruiser (Gnosis) Other * 4 Corvette * 4 Shuttle * Miscellaneous others (e.g. Primae) Which is roughly 1/3 of the ships available. They are restricting 2/3 of the ships in the game. So, yes, in my opinion too great.
Serafiel Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 20	Posted - 2016.12.02 15:21:21 - [17] - Quote Lunavera Poxicon wrote: Tau Cabalander wrote: " F2P Restrictions are too great" * 6 Frigates + 2 Navy Frigates * 2 Destroyers * 4 Cruisers + 2 Navy Cruisers * 1 Mining Frigate * 2 Industrial if Caldari Bonus: * 1 Battlecruiser (Gnosis) Other * 4 Corvette * 4 Shuttle * Miscellaneous others (e.g. Primae) Which is roughly 1/3 of the ships available. They are restricting 2/3 of the ships in the game. So, yes, in my opinion too great. Suck it up, and pay up. Alternativelly, we can always go back to zero free content (as we should, anyway).
Roenok Baalnorn Sadistically Sinister 382	Posted - 2016.12.02 15:38:19 - [18] - Quote Im going to give you F2P fans, the harsh reality of F2p. Ive been playing MMOs for over 2 decades. Thats right i was playing MMOs before people currently in college even existed. Ive played many MMOs from dozens of game companies online and mobile games. Here is the harsh reality of true F2P, P2W models: 1) A businesses reason to exist is NOT( this is going to be a shock to you) to provide you with free entertainment. It is to make a profit. 2) This may seem strange to you, but Devs have bills, like to eat, like having electricity, maybe take a vacation now and then. You know things that require a paycheck. 3) A sub game is actually cheaper than a F2P. "Its free" is the oldest marketing trick in the book. Its not really free, you have to pay to get anywhere and/or be anything but a farm for wealthy players. 4) F2P games develop a "class system". You have: - Wealthy players ( like me) that can drop hundreds of dollars a month on a game and not think twice about it. These are at the top of the food chain. They have all the best gear and are pretty much untouchable. What makes them even more untouchable is they tend to band together with other rich players. So now you have an oligarchy of credit cards. - Middle class players that spend $20-$100 a month. These can survive in the game but they lag behind in having the nicest stuff. - The poor players hoping that the $10 they spent this month on that package will really give them a boost cause it took them all month saving change to get that much. The end up spending most of their in game currency on protection items so they dont keep getting slaughtered. - Poverty level players. The ones who scream about how games should be free. Because they are poor IRL, they think everything should be given to them. When instead of playing games, they should be working on fixing their financial situation. If you can afford a computer to play a modern MMO, then you can afford a sub. But we wont get into that. These players think they are getting a good deal cause its free! Nope they are just content farms for everyone else. Most of them play a few weeks, say i cant compete, and move on to a different game. 5) F2P game customer support goes to virtually nil. GMs are replaced by some min wage college kid that reads from a script and tries their best to frustrate you into just going away OR they simply just dont bother to respond to you at all. Unless its a question regarding payment problems. Then suddenly you get someone that is an IT guru. 6) The devs in free to play games focus on income generation. Not a quality product. There are a few F2P games i play every once in a while in which major bugs have went unchecked for YEARS. Meanwhile they are pumping out new premium items and upgrades on the weekly basis. 7) Everything in free to play, ironically, is about revenue generation. They dont care what you want in the game, the devs wont even talk to you. They dont read the forums because they dont want to sift through the enormous amount of complaint posts. Its not like it matters anyway. Their bosses are telling them to pump out revenue generating ideas, not fix crap they dont make any additional revenue of. 8) The one thing that never fails, that never has bugs, and always works in a F2P game is the payment processor. It will take your money without fail every single time you use it. It is flawless in its job. And they probably spent more on their payment processor than the spent on the entire game. F2P games are nothing more than scams. In contrast you have the Eve current model: 1) You get good/great customer support from someone who has a clue what is going on and can actually help you. 2) Except for alphas, everyone is on the same playing field. For $15 a month( Its like $11 a month if you just buy a year, hell ask for money for your birthday and use that buy a years sub)you get the same access as everyone else, can do the same things as everyone else. 3) Eve is free unlimited trial. You have access to most things you can do in game. You are not restricted on where you can go as an alpha, You are just restricted on the ride you use to get there. Got to take the bus, if you cant afford a limo, sorry bro. 4) In eve you can play for free as an omega. And its super easy. All you have to do is earn enough to buy a plex in 30 days. I earn 2 bil plus a week casually playing a few hours a day doing things i want to do. 5) Wealthy players in eve make it possible for you to play for free. I buy a six pack of plex sell it on the market to poor people. They get to play the same as me with the same access as me and enjoy the game like me because i pay for their account. And in return they grind isk for me, so i can spend my time pew pewing or whelping ships, or blinging out my ride, or whatever. Everyone wins. Everyone is on the same playing field. Im just paying for their game time and they are just grinding my isk. Its the perfect gaming symbiotic relationship. 6) The constant and steady revenue generated by subs allows CCP to focus on turning out a quality product, rather than trying to scam their next dollar like P2W. Bugs are fixed, the game is updated regularly. Devs take time to listen to players and bounce ideas off players. Devs are focused on making a good game for the players, not an ATM. Learn how to make isk in eve, play for free as an omega. Its not hard to do. Vets been telling alphas how to bankroll an omega account since clone states came out. Ive told alphas how to do it at least half a dozen times on reddit in the last 2 weeks. But dont try to dumb my game down because you are to lazy to put any effort into playing for free or learning how to play for free. The mechanic is there, put some effort in and learn how to use it.
Estuary Algaert Petulant Luddite GmbH 15	Posted - 2016.12.02 15:39:20 - [19] - Quote I rather enjoy the limited nature of the Alpha clones as it brings the scope of the game down to something a bit less overwhelming. With this release I have managed to convince a few of my other gaming friends to come play, some had tried before, others are new. So far they are all enjoying it because they have a perceived sense of direction (as in not asking my constantly, what do I do now?) from the game from the artificial handrails that Alpha clones have. Will they eventually want to grow beyond this structure, hopefully so, but until then we are merrily flying around blowing folk up :-)... for free.
Neuntausend Rens Nursing Home 1148	Posted - 2016.12.02 15:42:10 - [20] - Quote It really does not matter how good your arguments for giving Freeloaders access to more ships or skills, or even all of them one way or another may be. The arguments against it are too strong: In the case of giving players full access for free, and financing that through microtransactions, How do you prevent players from creating loads and loads of free SP farms/gank alts/cyno alts/market alts/spies/cloaky campers/...? In the case of selling the game once, and allowing free access afterwards, how do you keep money rolling in? The same applies to the microtransactions as well. CCP would need to keep players buying their stuff. And in order to do so, they would constantly have to release new stuff, that invalidates the old stuff. Why else would I want to buy something new, if I can play just as well with what I already have? Eve has this nice where about every ship can be used effectively in one way or another. There are barely any "bad" ships. So, I could just "buy" me access to a variety of ships I need, and then fly just those (I tend to use the same ships over and over again anyway) and then never pay for this game again, unless they were to release new ships that are simply better in every regard. And then we'd see what we have in World of Warcraft for example, where you play the current expansion for one year, until the next one throws all that content on the garbage and gives you new, better content, you of course have to buy again. Subscription based models are still the best in terms of balance, fairness and cost control. You can tell right from the get-go how much this game will cost you. With any sort of microtransactions, paid unlocks, pay to play expansions and so on, this goes out of the window. You start playing the game with no idea how much it will cost you to play the way you want, and in the end, you will be locked out from certain content by a paywall without knowing how tall it will be beforehand. And yes, this works exceptionally well for some games, but the ones profiting from systems like that over a subscription based model are the publishers/developers, not the players. It's baffling to me how so many players want to have ripoff models like that.

Hrist Harkonnen Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 14	Posted - 2016.12.02 15:45:56 - [21] - Quote True F2P games are MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE than P2P. Be glad this game isn't truly F2P. Try EVE Online for FREE with 250.000 extra skill points here!
Mina Sebiestar Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate 1099	Posted - 2016.12.02 15:50:17 - [22] - Quote Login last night as alpha to see eve after few months got 15min max out of it alphas are extremely limited from my point of view from new players it's OK to get a taste of a game and go sub or die from boredom. But for me with gazilion isk in assets and billions in isk it was restricted nightmare... To have playable expirience i would need access to all size meta drones and as well as all sub cap race specific ship classes would settle for BS restriction so ppl don't go farming l4 and incursions ez pz but BC tier 3 should be fair game so yes large guns trainable. Typhoon Fleet Issue SOE skin for the win.
Roenok Baalnorn Sadistically Sinister 384	Posted - 2016.12.02 15:58:47 - [23] - Quote Mina Sebiestar wrote: Login last night as alpha to see eve after few months got 15min max out of it alphas are extremely limited from my point of view from new players it's OK to get a taste of a game and go sub or die from boredom. But for me with gazilion isk in assets and billions in isk it was restricted nightmare... To have playable expirience i would need access to all size meta drones and as well as all sub cap race specific ship classes would settle for BS restriction so ppl don't go farming l4 and incursions ez pz but BC tier 3 should be fair game so yes large guns trainable. Step 1: Go to trade hub of choice Step 2: Buy plex off market with those riches Step 3: Activate plex, you now have 30 days of Omega. Step 4: Grind more isk using your preferred method to buy next months plex. Step 5: Congratulations! You are playing for free as an Omega and you didnt have to swipe a credit card!
Lucy Lollipops State War Academy Caldari State 142	Posted - 2016.12.02 16:09:41 - [24] - Quote If you play only eve online, a 15 euro/month subscription is more than acceptable. If you play Wow. Eve, FF, and whatever all together it's 15+15+15 and so on, it can become more difficult to accept for your wallet... So it's only a matter of choices. I criticize many aspects of this game, namely hisec ganking and wardec system, but from the moment I began to play Eve I was naturally playing only Eve so it's not a problem to pay subscription.
Aurelius Oshidashi Hard-line Syndicate Serrice Council. 18	Posted - 2016.12.02 16:10:27 - [25] - Quote There's only 1 situation where I wouldn't advise whiners like the OP to STFU and get a job. That's when due to a medical reason you can't secure a sufficient income for a sub.
Cutter Isaacson wiggle Tech. Pandamimic Legion 3109	Posted - 2016.12.02 16:32:34 - [26] - Quote Serafiel wrote: Toobo wrote: On a different topic, purely cosmetic microtransactions and money sinks can work very well too if done right, as proven in various other commercially successful games. I'm not too fussed about alpha accounts game play, while some things are limited there were other things limited as trial accounts as well. But I do think more expansions on cosmetic things could be good, not just ship SKINS. True, but if you compare median player age of those "other games" and EVE...you might see the difference and the problem: Adults tend not to throw money on bullshit like that. Almost 60% of World of Tanks players are over the age of 25. So it would seem that adults do indeed "Throw money on bullshit like that". "The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Cutter Isaacson wiggle Tech. Pandamimic Legion 3109	Posted - 2016.12.02 16:35:02 - [27] - Quote I do rather think that the moniker "F2P2 is...incorrect, at least when applied to the Alpha states. What is also wrong is assuming that ttrue F2P can just be bolted on to a game like EVE and have it be successful. The reason games like World of Tanks work with a F2P model is because they were designed, from the ground up to be truly "Free to Play". EVE is not. "The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Sonya Corvinus Grant Village 833	Posted - 2016.12.02 16:37:38 - [28] - Quote let's say you spend 15 hours/month playing, which for most people is very conservative. A subscription is $12/month. That's $0.80 per hour. If you can't afford $0.80/hour for entertainment, you really should be looking for a better job instead of playing video games.
Kara Hawke The Scope Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2016.12.02 16:43:18 - [29] - Quote I was a little irritated when I saw all the limitations Alphas had. But as time goes on, I've realized the reason I've been coming back to this game for 9 years.. it's not Pay to Win - and I'm invested in my characters. I've seen so many games go down the pay to win road and while some have prospered (World of Tanks) the majority die a quick death or become virtually unplayable. Eve has such an intricate community and economy, I want to keep coming back for another 9 years and enjoying New Eden. $15 a month for two accounts is for me less than two hours of work. The time I spend goofing off on my phone at work and In the bathroom pooping on the clock is literally paying for my accounts. Except for when I buy plex and my credit card company calls me asking if I've spent over $100 on something called Eve Online. Then it kinda stings.
Neuntausend Rens Nursing Home 1149	Posted - 2016.12.02 17:05:45 - [30] - Quote Sonya Corvinus wrote: let's say you spend 15 hours/month playing, which for most people is very conservative. A subscription is $12/month. That's $0.80 per hour. If you can't afford $0.80/hour for entertainment, you really should be looking for a better job instead of playing video games. This is a kind of ignorant statement I can see come up a lot. 15 bucks a month is a lot of money for many people, and just willy-nilly finding a better job is not exactly a trivial task in many places of the world. Yes, 15 bucks is pocket change for many people in the states or the better off parts of europe, but we first world rich guys aren't the only people on this oblate space spheroid we call earth. However, all this doesn't change the fact that CCP need money to operate, and truly "free to play" MMOGs are always an illusion. They simply cost money to make and maintain. And as much as I would like to see more people gain full access to the game by not being hit with a price tag they can't afford to pay, I'm afraid it's ultimately not possible.



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