EVE Search - Copy slots filling up like ME research slots

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Copy slots filling up like ME research slots

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Xiao Up	Posted - 2007.04.05 14:22:00 - [1] Something should be done about copy slots. 1.) Not very many stations have copy slots (compared to research or manufacturing slots) 2.) These slots are filling up like ME slots. I've seen some stations with a minimum 12 day wait time for copying. 3.) Mobile labs have 3 invention slots, 3 research slots, but only 1 copy slot. 4.) This is only going to get far, far worse once the blueprint lottery goes away, and invention is the only way to get T2 gear. Once people stop hoarding their research points, and trade them for datacores... copy times in public slots will go through the roof. When you introduce a game mechanic that takes an infrequently used sector of industry and makes it absolutely necessary for T2 production via invention, and you don't look at the supply of copy slots... You're going to create problems.
Izzy Pol Fear and Loathing in LoneTrek	Posted - 2007.04.05 14:26:00 - [2] Good, we need some competition for resources. imo a bit of a barrier to churning out millions of copies of everything is needed.
morifeine	Posted - 2007.04.05 14:28:00 - [3] /signed 10 times. The funniest thing is that a mobile lab provide 5 invention slots for only 1 copy slot... And invention need a BPC to run
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2007.04.05 14:56:00 - [4] Edited by: Plutoinum on 05/04/2007 14:55:15 If we could rent out pos lab slots to the public it might solve the problem. Then people could use them from a station. The copies needed to be delivered to the station of course and that restriction that it supports only corp hangars needs to fall. The interface is almost supporting that. You can set restrictions for each slot, like corp and alliance use, standings, sec. rating and set fees. Strange enough, if you set no restrictions and the availability shows public, it doesn't really mean public. I don't know if it's just not ready yet or if CCP has had something in mind and stopped working on it. ___________ Muuuhhh !!!
Sayuri Viscosity	Posted - 2007.04.11 01:23:00 - [5] /signed
Eralus	Posted - 2007.04.11 01:36:00 - [6] Originally by: morifeine /signed 10 times. The funniest thing is that a mobile lab provide 5 invention slots for only 1 copy slot... And invention need a BPC to run Not very funny when you consider a copy job takes much less time than an invent job. _____ Lifewire is a big, ugly, mean... carebear.
Warrio Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.11 03:14:00 - [7] No no no you silly billys. The whole point is that T2 BP's are ment to be hard to come by. Even though the removal of the T2 lottery takes dumb luck out of the equation it doesn't mean that they should be easy to get. A large Caldari tower can fit 13 labs on it + weapons etc. Yeah, you'll have to grind faction for a long time to get it but thats part of the game. Stfu and stop whinging. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Deckard Cain
Grilldor	Posted - 2007.04.11 04:26:00 - [8] They should just increase the price to install and run jobs in stations. supply and demand, blah blah blah.
Del Narveux Obsidian Angels Enterprises	Posted - 2007.04.11 04:34:00 - [9] I got no problem with jacking up prices in labs, but if they do that they need to double the number of slots again. This needs to happen anyway, its sort of silly that we keep getting more players but lab/factory availability has stayed constant since they changed how they work. _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.04.11 05:47:00 - [10] Originally by: Del Narveux I got no problem with jacking up prices in labs, but if they do that they need to double the number of slots again. This needs to happen anyway, its sort of silly that we keep getting more players but lab/factory availability has stayed constant since they changed how they work. Hey again :). I agree with the intial op and this post that something needs to be done, the real question though is what. The problem is that just doubling slots doesnt actually solve the problem (something ccp seems apt to never do) The real issue here is the competition for finite resources. Some would argue that POS solve this issue, but in reality its only a stop gap measure in solving the issue as the expensive of pos parts and fuels dont really justify the cost unless things are done on large enough scales to negate most of the cost. Yes I know that part are only a one time investment etc, and that fuels are the real issue, but all of that is besides the point. I believe this game needs a more dynamic solution to the problem. It needs one that will grow with the player base, one that is dynamic enough that CCP wont have to double lab slots every so often. Having to wait a real life month for a lab seems a bit extreme. Even 0.0 NPC labs are starting to fill out and suffer the same problems. CCP is starting out in the right direction with invetion, because the market is driven by players, everything is supply and demand and cost vs profit. The problem is that players cant control labs in such a way that greatly impacts the game unlike in other areas. I may not have the answer, but I do know how the answer should look. In any case dont hold your breath for any miracle from CCP. They havent exactly shown the best turn around time for fixing issues that arent game breaking like nano phoons (and even when they addressed those they took it too far as usual)
Algey The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.04.11 07:37:00 - [11] Rather than a pos "lab" maybe specific pos modules for each of the lab jobs. That way people who need them could put up multiple copy modules without the current redundancy.
Del Narveux Obsidian Angels Enterprises	Posted - 2007.04.11 08:03:00 - [12] Sup Riley. Youre right about the static resources thing, the problem is since research is based on slots theres no really easy way to regulate the number of them. And the problem with poses is theyre pretty expensive to buy and maintain, and considerable risk of losing them in most places, so average joe builder would rather just shove em in a nice safe NPC station. One thing that might help, and I made a thread on this a while back but cant rly be bothered to dig it up, is a sort of mini outpost that could be placed in space far away from warpables, relatively low cost/upkeep, have like 1 factory and lab slot and be limited 1 per corp. CCP could even sell 'plots' of space, i.e. a bookmark to somewhere off the grid in empire space (oregon trail in space lol). I think we can all agree that theres enough space in systems for an almost unlimited number of them, and Im sure balance issues regarding off-grid safespots could be resolved (isnt there already a probe that scans down anything in sytem?). _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.11 08:13:00 - [13] Originally by: Algey Rather than a pos "lab" maybe specific pos modules for each of the lab jobs. That way people who need them could put up multiple copy modules without the current redundancy. A good suggestion. The POS route see to be the best solution if the are made a bit more flexibile. The limit, beside the current structure of the laroratories, is the ice access in high security systems. There is a trend in CCP to deny access even to basic ice in empire. First the have stopped the regrowth of ice in the belts in 0.5+,then they have removed all the ice belts from 0.8+, without adding belts in lower security. Currently there are regions with 1 or 0 ice belts in high security. As ice and ice products are bulky, moving them from 15 to 30 jumps to fuel a POS is hardly convenient, so the areas that still have high sec ice will become crowded fast and people will leave off line towers anchored to keep the spot against all newcomers.
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2007.04.11 08:24:00 - [14] Originally by: Plutoinum Edited by: Plutoinum on 05/04/2007 14:55:15 If we could rent out pos lab slots to the public it might solve the problem. Then people could use them from a station. The copies needed to be delivered to the station of course and that restriction that it supports only corp hangars needs to fall. The problem with renting out pos slots of any description, is that there are loads more problems than just where the materials used comes from and is delivered to. For example, how do you deal with the pos owner that wants to take down their array, when the public have already paid to queue jobs into it? If you say the pos owner can take it down and cancel the jobs by default, then you've just conned your customers out of their lab charges. Yo-yo lab scams would suck. If you say the pos owner must wait till the slots finish, then people can queue up the public slot to ridiculous levels to grief the pos owner. And anyway, in that situation, what happens if the pos owner willfully lets their pos run out of fuel? The non-permanent and player-controlled nature of pos slots means that they're never going to be able to be provided by players as a generic service in the same way as the NPC lab slots are. The best solution I can come up with at the moment for pos lab "sharing", is a solution via the contracts system. This would allow a player to put up a "research" contract, containing the blueprint to be researched, the fee offered, and the required finishing research levels. When the researcher accepts the contract, they are not given direct access to the BP. Instead they are issued a token that points to the blueprint, which is being held in secure SCC escrow. The researcher can submit the token into a research job as if it were a blueprint, and the SCC will then submit the BP directly into the job. The SCC would not release the BP if the researcher attempted to put the token into an inappropriate job (e.g. to do ME research when only PE research was contracted, or to try and start a manufacturing job, or research the BP beyond contracted levels). Upon job completion, the BP is returned directly to SCC escrow, so the researcher never has direct access to the BP. The issuer of the contract would have several options, including seeing if their BP is in a job, and if so, what job and when it will finish. They would also have the option of cancelling the contract, to stop the researcher deliberately sitting on the BP without working on it. This would cancel any job the BP was currently in and return the BP to the owner. If the BP had not been researched yet by the researcher, the fee would also be reclaimed, but if the researcher had started work on the BP, then the fee would not be returned. This gives the BP owner a secure method of sending their BP to be researched, and means it is up to the research facility provider to ensure their POS is organised and run properly. Originally by: Algey Rather than a pos "lab" maybe specific pos modules for each of the lab jobs. That way people who need them could put up multiple copy modules without the current redundancy. This is definitely something I'd like to see. The current mobile lab structure doesn't give POS owners the flexibility to be able to provide what's demanded. But at the same time, spamming an array per slot would be too far the other way. I'd probably look at a specialised array that had 5 slots of the given type, same bonuses as the current lab array, with about half the cost and fitting requirement of the current mobile lab (which holds 12 slots in total currently). ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
RaTTuS BIG Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.04.11 08:25:00 - [15] All not quite right Originally by: Xiao Up Something should be done about copy slots. I agree - 100% Originally by: Xiao Up 1.) Not very many stations have copy slots (compared to research or manufacturing slots) all station that have labs lsots have copy , me , pe and invention Originally by: Xiao Up 2.) These slots are filling up like ME slots. I've seen some stations with a minimum 12 day wait time for copying. 99% in empire are filled up massively 12 days is nothgin for some staions Originally by: Xiao Up 3.) Mobile labs have 3 invention slots, 3 research slots, but only 1 copy slot. Tue - it is the same ratio on Staions also Originally by: Xiao Up 4.) This is only going to get far, far worse once the blueprint lottery goes away, and invention is the only way to get T2 gear. Once people stop hoarding their research points, and trade them for datacores... copy times in public slots will go through the roof. has already done so - but TBH - copy slots where to most over subscribed lab operation even before invention and yes it will get wose. Originally by: Xiao Up When you introduce a game mechanic that takes an infrequently used sector of industry and makes it absolutely necessary for T2 production via invention, and you don't look at the supply of copy slots... You're going to create problems. yeah ccp had a problem with BPc's - probably take up the 2nd most amount of db space as bm's ,.,.., I think invention should be able to be done on orginals - and make copies - but not have the orginal destroyed -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal \| RaTTuS @ Skills Showroom
Juneau Vespertine Minmatar CompleXion Industries	Posted - 2007.04.11 08:29:00 - [16] The best idea I've seen is one that someone else brought up at least a few months ago (and has already been said here a few times); additional types of mobile labs. Having the option to set up a lab with 5 copy slots, versus one with 5 ME slots, versus the standard lab that exists now, would help considerably. To maintain stable supply of t2 goods, invention requires an absolutely massive amount of blueprint copying going on 24/7. That said, the amount of public slots also needs an increase. One of the developers commented that 90% of all lab slots were full, literally three years ago, in April 2004. ME research queues are terrible, but the free market has created a solution for that. Copying slots however, are seeing huge increases in queue time, because of the huge demands the t2 market now places on them. With current labs, bringing the amount of labs online to have enough copying slots available will almost definitely create price shocks in the ME/PE research service industry, since there will be so many extra slots open merely for the copying. This isn't new; it's been happening for a while now, but as invention becomes more prominent it's going to get worse.
Mortok Tristan	Posted - 2007.04.11 08:34:00 - [17] May I also remind you guys that Remote Research with a POS doesn't work for copy slots, since there is a nice bug that makes the bpc disappear into /dev/null :)
Gladia Horusthu Gallente Anything Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.11 08:47:00 - [18] Even though some people in this thread seem to have no faith in the concept, there is currently an alliance whose whole purpse is to establish and rent out to others highsec space POS's with lab slots. I think the name of the alliance is Empire Research, they have an in-game channel M.A.S.H I think (I'm not in-game this is all from memory so sorry if one of those is off).
Del Narveux Obsidian Angels Enterprises	Posted - 2007.04.11 09:09:00 - [19] But what do they charge? The reason I ask this is both running and renting a POS is very expensive and risky, and really rather inordinate when you compare it to the many inexpensive BPOs that arent worth much and the expensive ones that take forever to cook. For example if I buy an apoc bpo I probably wouldnt trust it in a pos since theres a fair chance it will die or run out of fuel before research is complete. Likewise if I have a medium laser bpo I can hardly be expected to shell out millions to get it worked on since even a modest 500k lab fee would be like 100 times the worth of one of the lasers I could build. _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
Mr Gimlet	Posted - 2007.04.11 11:15:00 - [20] Originally by: Mortok Tristan May I also remind you guys that Remote Research with a POS doesn't work for copy slots, since there is a nice bug that makes the bpc disappear into /dev/null :) Have you checked lab storage for the copies??? I have to add that with my experiance the number of slots available in a POS just needs a bit of a tweak. 1 copy is just not enough, and IIRC 5 research slots is too many. The 3 ME and 3 PE is probably just about right though - for balance. Afterall if it was too easy - there would be too much profit and then everyone would get involved. As It is already - you need an army of labrats to keep the slots filled up on even a small research POS.
Fizzle Fingers Caldari Dark Matter Logistics Empire Research	Posted - 2007.04.11 11:24:00 - [21] Originally by: Mortok Tristan May I also remind you guys that Remote Research with a POS doesn't work for copy slots, since there is a nice bug that makes the bpc disappear into /dev/null :) I haven't had any problems remotely using copy slots in my POS from an NPC station. The BPC's simply appear in the hangar on the lab itself. I just have to fly to the lab and empty the hangar.
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2007.04.11 11:32:00 - [22] Originally by: Mortok Tristan May I also remind you guys that Remote Research with a POS doesn't work for copy slots, since there is a nice bug that makes the bpc disappear into /dev/null :) That only happens if you're using a lab that's been put up by a different corp in your alliance, and they're sharing the slot to the alliance. If the POS belongs to your corp, it works normally. If you're using a lab put up by your own corp, the copies go into the lab array's own hangar, regardless of where the BPO came from. This is the same behaviour with all the POS-based slots (lab and manufacturing) that output something other than the input BP. If you're using a different corp's array via alliance slot sharing, it tries to find a hangar belonging to your corp in the other corp's array. As there isn't one, it has nowhere to output the copies to, thus breaks. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Dr Bernard	Posted - 2007.08.20 17:48:00 - [23] Another option could be to allow invention to use bpo's directly. This would avoid the need for copying alltogether. Perhaps adjust the invention time accordingly, e.g just add in the copy time assume max runs. The downside of course is you tie up your bpo for the duration of the invention run, but tbh I dont see that as a big deal since I would guess most people are inventing various things at the same time rather than the same thing over and over.
Dr Bernard	Posted - 2007.08.20 17:53:00 - [24] Another great improvement assuming we could use bpos would be allow X attempts on it. Or even better, keep inventing till i get something. Maybe thats too black box but would be awesome.
MrTripps Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.20 18:02:00 - [25] Edited by: MrTripps on 20/08/2007 18:07:39 I think there was a post on one of the Dev blogs about a new Advanced Mobile Lab that had more copy slots. Yep: New Advanced Mobile Laboratory An upgraded version of the Mobile Laboratory will be available offering 3 copy (0.65 time modifier), 2 ME (0.75 modifier), and 2 Invention slots (0.5 time modifier). Operation will require 20% more power and CPU from your starbase. Base cost of the Advanced Lab will be 150 million ISK. "They must find it difficult... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather then truth as the authority." - Gerald Massey
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.08.20 18:02:00 - [26] The proposed advanced mobile lab (with 3 copy slots and a stronger bonus to copying) is a step in the right direction, but we really need a fix for alliance copying (or better yet, public copying) so that more people can have access to it. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
Empyre Domestic Reform	Posted - 2007.08.20 18:13:00 - [27] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro The proposed advanced mobile lab (with 3 copy slots and a stronger bonus to copying) is a step in the right direction, but we really need a fix for alliance copying (or better yet, public copying) so that more people can have access to it. hard to take that time multiplier hit for the extra slots, though. especially when you can just anchor another regular lab and get another slot. i like research the way it is now. it could be better if i could offer some of my own research slots to the public, but oh well. the whole process is not easy nowadays but its not incredibly difficult, either. hardest part is getting the faction (if you plan on anchoring in empire). Please stop messing with my signature!!!
MrTripps Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.20 18:16:00 - [28] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro we really need a fix for alliance copying (or better yet, public copying) so that more people can have access to it. They should fix that bug, but if they make it too easy it will just glut the market with BPCs. "They must find it difficult... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather then truth as the authority." - Gerald Massey
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.08.20 18:20:00 - [29] There should be means in which to interact with NPC to expose the users of all slots in a station to build a casefile on the would be competition. Also there should be a new forum format coming any day now 'cause these boards seriously blow, 5 logins and another 10 attempts to post before I even got this far... Also Known As
SiJira	Posted - 2007.08.20 19:07:00 - [30] why should everything be cheap and empty in empire? it shouldnt so deal with it or go to 0.0 ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.