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Caffeine Junkie Caldari The Ministry Of Funny Walks	Posted - 2007.04.07 18:12:00 - [31] Originally by: bldyannoyed I dont know why people have this idea that fitting 1 or 2 medium or small turrets somehow makes u cepter proof. Missiles will though, but not all Battleships can fit them. ___________________
Loo Mega	Posted - 2007.04.07 18:34:00 - [32] Originally by: Kunming Fit small guns if you wanna kill frigs in ur BS or bring along a friend in an anti-frig ship, why is it that the big bad battleship needs to take on everything on the menu? You bring BS to take out frigs, you bring BS to take out cruisers, you bring BS for fleet battle, you bring BS to take out dreadnoughts... Quoting a dev on this one: "Battleship is not meant to be a solo-pwn-mobile" And thats pretty much the case atm, fit NOS to be frigate proof, BS guns eat through cruisers and BCs anyway (close range ones at least). Personally I am for the complete removal of NOS and only leave Neutralizers in game (since they have a drawback), but I'm sure we can come to a middle way solution everyone can agree on. Just cut it out with the "its the only defense vs frigs" crap! /signed Remove NOS. It's a braindead module. At the moment the whole EVE is all about battleships. People think, if they can fly a bs, so they should be able to kill everything, from frig to a capital ship. If you want to fly your bs solo, so be a man and take the risk. There are a lot of defense against frigs: - First of all it's not a SOLO game. Bring your friends. - Small and Medium weapons - Light Drones - Light Assault Missile Launchers with Precision Missiles - Smartbombs, Web, TP, ECM - Destroyers (an anti-frig-shipclass) - and once again your friends if these things doesnt work, than the game is not balanced imo. @all who says, so why should be interceptors/AF's solopwnmobiles? They aren't, bring your frig, and i will show you, what a cruiser can do with your frig.
TheShire Amarr F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.04.07 18:48:00 - [33] The way i see it is the only people that dont like NOS are the ones that think they should be able to solo anything with no recourse. NOS on BS's and BC's are great defenses, but in no way an "iwin". If youre concerned with NOS go with a small gang at all times and presume that all encounters have NOS, if you go in with that mindset and ship(s) to counter that defence i highly doubt this would be as big an issue as most presume. Many times ive been out ratting in 0.0 in my domi, a single hostile jumps in and most of the time they find me before i notice or are too slow to ss, if they try to engage me solo i NOS em, they usually run at that point, now the smart ones go and grab friends since said hostiles shouldent be there unless they have some sort of backup, and on those occasions i exit stage left and try to SS, but again ive been caught in the past by that and even NOS sometimes doesnt help if they have the right ships to lay the smackdown. I know i got a few domi's and a dozen or so myrms on someones killboard and i had 4x heavy NOS. NOS in my opinion is the most balanced mod in eve and thats all i got to say
dalman Finite Horizon	Posted - 2007.04.07 18:50:00 - [34] Originally by: Kunming Fit small guns if you wanna kill frigs in ur BS or bring along a friend in an anti-frig ship... Quoting a dev on this one: "Battleship is not meant to be a solo-pwn-mobile" Explain your flawed logics! I see the usual forum brigade swinging comments like the above around. And it's truely ammusing. What you are suggesting is: A frigate can fit to fight other frigates - and with the same setup take on bigger things like a battleship. But a battleship must fit especially for fighting other battleships or frigates. - And be horribly killed if it runs into the other. What kind of logic is that? How do you come up with such a suggestion? The cheapest ships in the game should be the end all, be all? No thanks. The real fact is that you can set up your frigate to fight battleships etc. For example by fitting a capinjector on it. Your "problem" by doing so is that then you'll most likely die to any other frigate... So, you don't want to do that, yet you suggest battleships should have to do it? Pathetic. Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
MrDisposable Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.04.07 18:57:00 - [35] Edited by: MrDisposable on 07/04/2007 18:53:29 Originally by: TheShire T Many times ive been out ratting in 0.0 in my domi, a single hostile jumps in and most of the time they find me before i notice or are too slow to ss, if they try to engage me solo i NOS em, they usually run at that point, now the smart ones go and grab friends since said hostiles /translation "When someone tries to 1 vs 1 me they run due to the overwhelming power of my NOS-DOMI!!!!" Thanks for proving a point. ______________ BoB Alts "This isn't about Dev misconduct.... ban the Ctrl+q'rs! They are the real problem behind it ALL!!!!!" "Devs stole BPOs for the good of eve."
VanNostrum	Posted - 2007.04.07 19:08:00 - [36] Originally by: dalman But a battleship must fit especially for fighting other battleships or frigates. - And be horribly killed if it runs into the other. Sorry but your logic is more flawed. BS has many slots to effectively fight BS AND frigates. But your logic is BS should be the end all, be all. Sure, it's "expensive" after all. So all you need to do when you face cruisers is NOS, all you need to do when you face frigates is NOS. NOS to everything. That's facked up logic. NOS+large turrets. And those who suggest you cant hit ceptors orbiting you at 15-20km with 6kms speed with small guns..Well if you can't hit them, they can't hit you. Last I checked every BS had dronebays too. I got 8kms speed on my WarriorII, I'm not scared of no-dps ships orbiting me at crazy speeds. If they move in web them & pop them. There are modules for many problems, but NOS shouldn't be the only solution.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.04.07 19:17:00 - [37] Originally by: VanNostrum Sorry but your logic is more flawed. BS has many slots to effectively fight BS AND frigates. Yes, because a bs with 4 large and 4 small guns will obviously be able to effectively fight a BS with 8 large guns. It's either or, as dalman said.
Megan Maynard Minmatar RONA Deepspace	Posted - 2007.04.07 19:19:00 - [38] and the award for beating a dead horse topic goes to..........................
VanNostrum	Posted - 2007.04.07 19:22:00 - [39] Edited by: VanNostrum on 07/04/2007 19:18:17 Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: VanNostrum Sorry but your logic is more flawed. BS has many slots to effectively fight BS AND frigates. Yes, because a bs with 4 large and 4 small guns will obviously be able to effectively fight a BS with 8 large guns. It's either or, as dalman said. that other BS with 8 large guns will be stupid to go around solo and get eaten by frig packs then
MrDisposable Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.04.07 19:22:00 - [40] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: VanNostrum Sorry but your logic is more flawed. BS has many slots to effectively fight BS AND frigates. Yes, because a bs with 4 large and 4 small guns will obviously be able to effectively fight a BS with 8 large guns. It's either or, as dalman said. 4 small guns will cause a frigate quite a bit of difficulty, not to mention the 5 light drones. This is how it should be.... if you want to be effective vs something you need to fit for it. You don't use a cannon to kill a fly. So with 4 small and 4 large guns you can pretty much kill frigates and cruisers pretty effectively, while you will have difficulty against a BS that would get murdered by frigates. Trade offs..... ______________ BoB Alts "This isn't about Dev misconduct.... ban the Ctrl+q'rs! They are the real problem behind it ALL!!!!!" "Devs stole BPOs for the good of eve."

Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.04.07 19:23:00 - [41] Edited by: Aramendel on 07/04/2007 19:23:26 Originally by: VanNostrum that other BS with 8 large guns will be stupid to go around solo and get eaten by frig packs then As will you because your drones will be dead in seconds to a pack and if you hurt a frig it will just warp out, rep, and get back to you while the rest dps & scram you. Originally by: MrDisposable is completely missing the point Read the text I quoted.
Father Weebles North Face Force Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.04.07 19:31:00 - [42] Originally by: VanNostrum Originally by: Tunajuice Originally by: Gridan I suppose you cant web, target paint, or stick drones on an interceptor? Im just saying that just like large weapons hit frigs for less, nos should hit frigs for less as well. An inty pilot is a player too and shouldn't just be swatted away with impunity as if it were some level 1 mission rat with just 1 module. Im not saying make nos ineffective vs inty's, just dont make it drain cap from full to zero in 1 cycle, it makes flying interceptors worthless if any opponent in the vicinity sticks just 1 heavy nos on you. 1) web - inty orbits at 11km, out of web range, still in scram range. 2) Paint - Inty orbiting at 11km is still impossible to hit with battleship sized guns, even with 500 painters on it.. it is simply going too fast too close to track 3) Drones - Even tech1 light drones go what, 6000 m/s? An inty is going 7-10+ km/sec and will never be caught by light drones. If it wasn't for nos.. a BS will be sitting duck to an frig out there, which is insane. If I fit 1 nos or neut, it at least lets me warp away or kill stupid frigs.. has to be some defense against flys. Uhhh, easy, fit 1-2 light/med turrets and hit it. BS should not only be large turrets+nos. Even real battleships at sea have variety of weapons to counter different threats, not with giant turrets all over them. Had they equipped giant turrets only, it would be possible to sink them with a torpedo and a zodiac boat. Removal of NOS will encourage BS to mount small-med-large weapons altogether to counter different threats. A BS with full heavy guns will be strong vs other BS but won't do anything vs small targets. Current state of game is pretty much BS+NOS wars with zillions of ships/modules unused. small guns on a bs? LOL i take it you have never pvped before "Welcome to EVE, where inflation is out of control."
VanNostrum	Posted - 2007.04.07 19:36:00 - [43] Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 07/04/2007 19:23:26 Originally by: VanNostrum that other BS with 8 large guns will be stupid to go around solo and get eaten by frig packs then As will you because your drones will be dead in seconds to a pack and if you hurt a frig it will just warp out, rep, and get back to you while the rest dps & scram you. Originally by: MrDisposable is completely missing the point Read the text I quoted. Uhh, if you hurt a frig it will just warp out, rep, and get back to you while rest dps & scram you, regardless of NOS. a BS can tank thousands of DPS. Low slots arent for speed mods only. BS is not oversized frig, it is a heavy tanker with heavy dps. Speed mods+NOS is lame tactic, one is fixed one more to go. Just because 'some' used this setup effectively doesn't mean it's fun or the way it's meant to be.
VanNostrum	Posted - 2007.04.07 19:38:00 - [44] Originally by: Father Weebles Originally by: VanNostrum Originally by: Tunajuice Originally by: Gridan I suppose you cant web, target paint, or stick drones on an interceptor? Im just saying that just like large weapons hit frigs for less, nos should hit frigs for less as well. An inty pilot is a player too and shouldn't just be swatted away with impunity as if it were some level 1 mission rat with just 1 module. Im not saying make nos ineffective vs inty's, just dont make it drain cap from full to zero in 1 cycle, it makes flying interceptors worthless if any opponent in the vicinity sticks just 1 heavy nos on you. 1) web - inty orbits at 11km, out of web range, still in scram range. 2) Paint - Inty orbiting at 11km is still impossible to hit with battleship sized guns, even with 500 painters on it.. it is simply going too fast too close to track 3) Drones - Even tech1 light drones go what, 6000 m/s? An inty is going 7-10+ km/sec and will never be caught by light drones. If it wasn't for nos.. a BS will be sitting duck to an frig out there, which is insane. If I fit 1 nos or neut, it at least lets me warp away or kill stupid frigs.. has to be some defense against flys. Uhhh, easy, fit 1-2 light/med turrets and hit it. BS should not only be large turrets+nos. Even real battleships at sea have variety of weapons to counter different threats, not with giant turrets all over them. Had they equipped giant turrets only, it would be possible to sink them with a torpedo and a zodiac boat. Removal of NOS will encourage BS to mount small-med-large weapons altogether to counter different threats. A BS with full heavy guns will be strong vs other BS but won't do anything vs small targets. Current state of game is pretty much BS+NOS wars with zillions of ships/modules unused. small guns on a bs? LOL i take it you have never pvped before read previous posts glad you have fun with your speed+NOS 'PVP'
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.04.07 19:41:00 - [45] Originally by: VanNostrum a BS can tank thousands of DPS. No.
Caldari Online	Posted - 2007.04.07 19:42:00 - [46] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: VanNostrum a BS can tank thousands of DPS. No. a faction fitted BS can tank a couple thousand DPS. a non faction fitted can get a 1000dps tank
VanNostrum	Posted - 2007.04.07 20:01:00 - [47] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: VanNostrum a BS can tank thousands of DPS. No. Yes but of course, since all you fit YOUR bs is speed mods+large guns+nos
TheEndofTheWorld	Posted - 2007.04.07 20:06:00 - [48] Originally by: VanNostrum Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: VanNostrum a BS can tank thousands of DPS. No. Yes but of course, since all you fit YOUR bs is speed mods+large guns+nos Dominix can maybe tank 900 dps with t1 rigs, t2 armor tank ? What ship are you talking about that can tank thousands in a reasonable pvp setup?
Emolayshun	Posted - 2007.04.07 20:09:00 - [49] Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 07/04/2007 19:23:26 Originally by: VanNostrum that other BS with 8 large guns will be stupid to go around solo and get eaten by frig packs then As will you because your drones will be dead in seconds to a pack and if you hurt a frig it will just warp out, rep, and get back to you while the rest dps & scram you. Originally by: MrDisposable is completely missing the point Read the text I quoted. Whats your point? How is it unfair that 10 people in small ships can beat ONE person in a big one? The non capital food chain is what keeps eve balanced. A given ship class can always hit ships their size and larger but often have trouble against smaller ships. Break this cycle and you end up with pure BS fleets. To be honest, I think the bigger dnager to this way of life for small ships is not NOS - its titan DD's. Who needs support or even BS's if you can wipe out everything smaller than a dreadnaught with a couple of DD's? Letting even newbie pilots in frigs and cruisers be useful in fleet fights is the lifeblood of EvE. Destroy that and CCP's game stagnates.
Father Weebles North Face Force Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.04.07 20:13:00 - [50] Originally by: VanNostrum Originally by: Father Weebles Originally by: VanNostrum Originally by: Tunajuice Originally by: Gridan I suppose you cant web, target paint, or stick drones on an interceptor? Im just saying that just like large weapons hit frigs for less, nos should hit frigs for less as well. An inty pilot is a player too and shouldn't just be swatted away with impunity as if it were some level 1 mission rat with just 1 module. Im not saying make nos ineffective vs inty's, just dont make it drain cap from full to zero in 1 cycle, it makes flying interceptors worthless if any opponent in the vicinity sticks just 1 heavy nos on you. 1) web - inty orbits at 11km, out of web range, still in scram range. 2) Paint - Inty orbiting at 11km is still impossible to hit with battleship sized guns, even with 500 painters on it.. it is simply going too fast too close to track 3) Drones - Even tech1 light drones go what, 6000 m/s? An inty is going 7-10+ km/sec and will never be caught by light drones. If it wasn't for nos.. a BS will be sitting duck to an frig out there, which is insane. If I fit 1 nos or neut, it at least lets me warp away or kill stupid frigs.. has to be some defense against flys. Uhhh, easy, fit 1-2 light/med turrets and hit it. BS should not only be large turrets+nos. Even real battleships at sea have variety of weapons to counter different threats, not with giant turrets all over them. Had they equipped giant turrets only, it would be possible to sink them with a torpedo and a zodiac boat. Removal of NOS will encourage BS to mount small-med-large weapons altogether to counter different threats. A BS with full heavy guns will be strong vs other BS but won't do anything vs small targets. Current state of game is pretty much BS+NOS wars with zillions of ships/modules unused. small guns on a bs? LOL i take it you have never pvped before read previous posts glad you have fun with your speed+NOS 'PVP' yes because i fly nano ships "Welcome to EVE, where inflation is out of control."

Father Weebles North Face Force Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.04.07 20:15:00 - [51] Originally by: VanNostrum Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: VanNostrum a BS can tank thousands of DPS. No. Yes but of course, since all you fit YOUR bs is speed mods+large guns+nos Stop posting. My IQ has dropped 20 points. "Welcome to EVE, where inflation is out of control."
VanNostrum	Posted - 2007.04.07 20:33:00 - [52] Originally by: Father Weebles Originally by: VanNostrum Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: VanNostrum a BS can tank thousands of DPS. No. Yes but of course, since all you fit YOUR bs is speed mods+large guns+nos Stop posting. My IQ has dropped 20 points. funny, you have none left then
Horza Otho Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus	Posted - 2007.04.07 20:45:00 - [53] Edited by: Horza Otho on 07/04/2007 20:42:28 Give ships utility slots, just like turret+missile slots. Make nos take utility slots. Overuseage of nos problem solved. Now, was that hard?
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.04.07 20:47:00 - [54] Edited by: HankMurphy on 07/04/2007 20:44:26 NOS does need looked at. BUT, not for the reasons most ppl think. -NOS is a last line of defense for a battleship vs a frigate hull. We all know this. This shouldn't change. -NOS is also instrumental for support vs capital ships, this also shouldn't change. -Finally, one or two slots devoted to NOS can give you that extra life in combat in a gazillion different circumstances (from keeping weapons firing, to a couple extra rep fires, etc..). Again, this should not change. So, what should change? The ability to fit a full/half rack of nos, on ships not specialized for it, without any form of drawback. Now dont go gettin yer panties all in a bunch! Fact is there are ships that specialize in NOS, and these ships should be able to fit their full/half rack of NOS to full effect. But there is no reason to think that a ship should be able to fit a full rack of NOS just because it has a large drone bay. Yes i am talking specifically about the domi, ishtar and (not so much but i'll include it) the myrmidon. You add that ability to the dps available from just the drone bay and all you need is a dual rep and cap injector to make you more than a force to be reckoned with. I know they aren't invincible. I've killed plenty of em to prove that :) But the point still remains there is no reason nos shouldn't face a stacking penalty like everything else in the friggin game (seems to be the current motion). Alot of popular setups weren't intended when drone ships were designed (often designers dont realize what they've created till they put the ships in our hands!), but it was the effect and has never been looked at since conception.... /flame away, but you know i'm right edit to add: i almost forgot till i saw above poster... yes, hardpoints for nos would also be an acceptable solution
Tunajuice Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.04.07 20:59:00 - [55] Edited by: Tunajuice on 07/04/2007 20:55:40 How many posts do we have saying use light drones? Tech 2 light drones CAN NOT DAMAGE A WELL FITTED FRIG OR SIMILAR ORBITING YOU AT MAX SPEED. So unless we get another speed nerf, or tech2 light drones get a ~ 100% speed and tracking increase.. light drones do NOTHING against frigs and such.
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.04.07 21:05:00 - [56] I see the muppet population is going strong in this thread. Oh and dalman is right btw. Just fyi....
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.04.07 21:09:00 - [57] Originally by: VanNostrum but of course, since all you fit YOUR bs is speed mods+large guns+nos Yes, since I fly BS all the time. Oh wait, I'm not. But unlike you I know what they can and cannot do. Know your enemy, so to speak. More assumptions please. Originally by: Emolayshun Whats your point? How is it unfair that 10 people in small ships can beat ONE person in a big one? Did I say with one word it is? As for the point, read the text I quoted originally.
Nicholas DW Valiant Logistics Inc. Black Flag Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.07 21:26:00 - [58] NERF AMARR WITH THEIR LASERS AND THE PEW PEW!!! Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels -Shufo ([email protected])
VanNostrum	Posted - 2007.04.07 21:27:00 - [59] Originally by: Aramendel But unlike you I know what they can and cannot do. Know your enemy, so to speak. More assumptions please. Breaking news, Mr Knowitall, everybody knows what they can do, MWD+NOS+kill no assumptions necessary
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.04.07 21:54:00 - [60] Originally by: AKULA UrQuan I see the muppet population is going strong in this thread. Oh and dalman is right btw. Just fyi.... No, he's really not. A anti-BS setup for use in a wolfpack will have a very different choice of midslot modules than one designed to kill other frigates, across the gang. And that "across the gang" is important. Indeed, the choice of SHIP at the frigate level in large part depends what you're going after. //Maya



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