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Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
   |
Posted - 2007.04.06 11:23:00 -
[1]
Recently a band of high sec pirates have sought to take advantage of the War Dec system in eve.
To give a bit of an idea on the background of this problem caused by the Privateers one must assume that the majority of EVE players do not want to bare this problem any longer. Of all the people in game I know of perhaps 95% want to see privateers gone... for good. They have clearly stated aims to disrupt high sec life... which they are doing.
Previous to this stupid problem high sec was a place where noobs and pro alike could be relatively safe while regrouping and having fun without the risks of 0.0 where there where enemies seeking your demise at every corner. No one wants to be under constant attack in EVE, it is a major deterrent to people who like to play the game the good old fair way, the way I believe CCP intended it to be.
People have told me that Privateers are just mercÆing however I point out that the majority of their war decs are actually payed for by their own members which in essence means that while they continue to kill haulers and miners in high sec space they can continue to pay for this betrayal of the EVE community.
Areas that have been affected by Privateers:
- MercÆing: who needs 5 specialists when you can just hire 500 jita campers...
- Research & Industry: Empire industrialists and mission runners are forced to leave their alliance to continue getting payed.
People say this is fair, however i ask is it fair to force the alliance system to die out so that privateers can get their easy kills?
- Market system: Jita was previously a place where everyone could resupply and continue doing whatever they do... not since privateers were created. They steak out 4 - 4 and wait for the first unlucky person who gets jitas infamous black screen of death.
Why Privateer Exploitation of this system should be stopped:
- CCP's game was fantastically built to be close to real life in the sense that every action had a reaction.
- if you chose to pirate you would receive a security hit and no longer be safe in high sec.
- this is no longer the case. Using this system privateers can maintain this number of wars indefinitely... it is essentially high sec piracy without repercussions.
How Privateers avoid repercussions:
- Use of small light ships
- gank haulers miners make off with loot with minimal risk in isk value and actual chance of dieing.
- Largely using stations to do their "pvp"
- ability to tank and dock if odds are unfavourable
- use of lag while undocking to take out unsuspecting prey
- No one can waste the time to chase them around empire as the rest of us actually have assets in 0.0 that we need to protect! Furthermore no one can afford to bring up a 20 man crew on a regular basis to watch privateers dock and say "come back with 20 haulers".
CCP I beg of you to fix this urgent problem! Privateers are getting away with murder under your noses!
Possible solutions to this problem:
- the exponential increase of war dec cost after perhaps 5 war decs. so that every war dec after 5 war decs will cost ridiculous sums that cannot be made back by ganking some t2 haulers in what is meant to be safe space!
- The limitation of the number of war dec's an alliance may have... i suggest to 10.
- A new agro timer for empire only. Change the agro docking and jumping timer in empire to 5 mins. Stop that useless dominix and raven sitting outside jita 4 - 4 from docking once heÆs stupid enough to engage.
IÆm basically asking you to reintroduce repercussions for this empire based pvp.
If any of you have further complaints or ideas... IÆd love to hear them. If you want privateers gone and this system stopped so none other can rise in its place please donÆt just read this and agree in your hearts! Reply to this thread and let your voice be heard by CCP. This system needs to change if EVE is not to be destroyed by these low skilled pirates.
Brothers and Sisters I leave it to you!
Minigin
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.06 11:33:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Minigin on 06/04/2007 11:32:28
 Originally by: Ling Xiao
They already have repercussions on themselves - they can be shot as much as they can shoot you.
Whether they have one war or 100 wars doesn't make a difference to the war-target, even if you were the only war-target you would still have the same difficulties you listed above.
What you're basically complaining about is being war-decced, when you don't want to be. I'm afraid that's been part of Eve for a long long time, and there is a solution -> noob corps are for those who don't want to take the risk.
did you not read the why they dont face repercussions?
secondly im playing because i still hope theres a way things will change.
edit: furthermore the newb corp thing i ran out of room to discuss but i dont want to see EVE become another one of those stupid games where you cant connect with people. What makes EVE so great now is the abiltiy to chill out with some mates in a crop or alliance. If you sit there in a noob corp all day just making isk... where will you put it in the end? Just sit there in your hanger looking at your fat wallet saying "oh yeh im awsome" or spending it on helping your corpmates out!
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.06 11:38:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Minigin on 06/04/2007 11:35:50
Originally by: Pehova Mindtriq
You say privateers are making life for the noob hard but privateers are only going after alliances(mostly). You should be ready to fight if you are in an alliance if not just leave it then.
out of curiousity... are you guys just reading certain parts?
YOU CANT FIGHT PRIVATEERS! THEY USE STUPID TACTICS... if your so great go try it... i spent a week trying to no avail!
edit: furthermore your saying that alliances are only for the pros, and pvpers?
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.06 11:42:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Minigin on 06/04/2007 11:42:04
Originally by: Jago One
Originally by: Minigin
This system needs to change if EVE is not to be destroyed by these low skilled pirates.
nothing wrong with privateers. There are alot of them who are extremely good pvpers. (infact i wouldnt mind betting they do a damn sight more killing than your own alliance tbh)
As for the war decs well .. it allready costs them alot of isk. Look at the nuber of corps leaving and joining the alliance ... mostly because of lack of isks.
Basically u should just learn to deal with it .. there aint no problem with what they do.
i bet you if the state war academy had the funds and ability to war dec every major alliance in game then theyed do just as good a job as privateers... mostly docked until the haulers are flying around... then undock in their scram fitted ibis's and boom... its not hard... takes no skill... and is extremely hard to combat effectivly!
edit: and again... losing some isk on gaining that many targets is not a big enough repercussion for what is going on here. Safe space is no longer safe for anyone outside a noob alliance, and privateers can do what they want without risking anything... ie pos's/stations/even expencive ships as they can simply dock instead of be forced into a fight.
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.06 11:44:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Ravysa Delorean
Originally by: Minigin
Edited by: Minigin on 06/04/2007 11:35:50
Originally by: Pehova Mindtriq
You say privateers are making life for the noob hard but privateers are only going after alliances(mostly). You should be ready to fight if you are in an alliance if not just leave it then.
out of curiousity... are you guys just reading certain parts?
YOU CANT FIGHT PRIVATEERS! THEY USE STUPID TACTICS... if your so great go try it... i spent a week trying to no avail!
edit: furthermore your saying that alliances are only for the pros, and pvpers?
OMG, they use tactics like running away from bigger blobs and engaging when the odds are in their favor? Ban them I say, tricksy cheaters..... 
forgive me if you unerstood blobs... they even run away from even numbers and gunpower... they usualy go for the haulers... shuttles where they can get them.
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.06 11:47:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ravysa Delorean
Originally by: Minigin
Originally by: Ravysa Delorean
Originally by: Minigin
Edited by: Minigin on 06/04/2007 11:35:50
Originally by: Pehova Mindtriq
You say privateers are making life for the noob hard but privateers are only going after alliances(mostly). You should be ready to fight if you are in an alliance if not just leave it then.
out of curiousity... are you guys just reading certain parts?
YOU CANT FIGHT PRIVATEERS! THEY USE STUPID TACTICS... if your so great go try it... i spent a week trying to no avail!
edit: furthermore your saying that alliances are only for the pros, and pvpers?
OMG, they use tactics like running away from bigger blobs and engaging when the odds are in their favor? Ban them I say, tricksy cheaters.....
forgive me if you unerstood blobs... they even run away from even numbers and gunpower... they usualy go for the haulers... shuttles where they can get them.
Isn¦t that what pirates are supposed too? Loot merchant ships but avoid real combat to maximise profit?
now we are getting somewhere... arnt pirates ment to be forced to live in low sec and not be able to gank like this in high sec?
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.06 11:58:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Keta Min
first of, eve is not a democracy, so it doesnt matter how many don't like the privateers. it's a great example of players shaping the game world in an unexpected way.
now to your whiney pseudo arguments.
mercs are still there. privateers are not useful to take out a specific target. what they are useful at is putting pressure on a group of carebears that have no skill but that you can't quite touch if your char is unable to enter hisec for example.
alliance research and jita market whining.. ridiculous. that's not even an argument. the only bad thing is the jita black screen of death. it's not the privateers fault. ofcourse this should be fixed and imo it would be ok to reimburse ships that are lost in a black screen. but as long as its not fixed.. well stay the fck out of jita?
avoiding reprecussions, haha. so according to this BS you're spouting there all pvpers "avoid reprecussions" unless they are in alliance warfare risking to lose territory. here is a big secret of eve pvp for you: the skill is not in having lots of guns and being able to kill someone, but in actually getting him into a position where he gets killed.
to finish this well argumented but nevertheless flame post, i hereby judge thee as whiny carebear and suggest to go back to wow.
no in my opinion mercing is fine... but this is because its usualy done for a short period of time on a narrow group. Not everyone everywhere. Stupidest thing ive ever heard of... CCP designed high sec for a reason... if they intended it to be unsafe all of eve would have been made 0.0.
Your reply is also well argued but lacking in vision.
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.06 11:59:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Tomas Ysidro
For the brief two times that we were war dec'd by Privateers, we certainly had no trouble popping quite a few of them and we took pretty insignificant losses (as far as I can remember at least).
This is a game that rewards people who think and penalizes those who don't, and just because the security status of a system is greater than 0.4 doesn't mean that particular fact doesn't apply.
so your saying if we where all merc alliances we would be fine... not everyone wants to be a merc... not everyone wants to pvp... your taking that choice off the table for alot of people...
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.06 12:05:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Keta Min
Originally by: Minigin
Originally by: Tomas Ysidro
For the brief two times that we were war dec'd by Privateers, we certainly had no trouble popping quite a few of them and we took pretty insignificant losses (as far as I can remember at least).
This is a game that rewards people who think and penalizes those who don't, and just because the security status of a system is greater than 0.4 doesn't mean that particular fact doesn't apply.
so your saying if we where all merc alliances we would be fine... not everyone wants to be a merc... not everyone wants to pvp... your taking that choice off the table for alot of people...
no, that's what alliances are, pvp. you don't make one just to have a nice "guild" of people peacefully playing together and rping away. if you don't want pvp, you don't make/join an alliance.
yes now pray tell where alliances live? and do non-pvpers join alliances? and when alliances leave their assets to go fight privateers rather than enemies who are moving on their assets what happens?
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.06 12:12:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Oki Riverson
To quote the great and wise Arnold - "STOP WHINNING!"
I'm posting my view if CCP decides they are relavant then we will hopefully see a change... if not then i'll be anti privateer till i die...
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
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Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.06 12:17:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ayumu Kosuga
Originally by: Minigin
they even run away from even numbers and gunpower...
sorry .. but this "argument" is short sighted.
your standings != their standings
you see maybe 5 wartargets, PVTs see 25 ... from your POV they avoid even fights, from their POV they avoid getting blobbed. 
oh .. and if you join a 0.0 alliance and expect to be a safe and happy carebear - get real. either you're able to support your alliance or you're dead weight.
people who scream "omg wardec! can't do my business anymore!!1!!" are NOT supporting their alliance. supporting an alliance means either being able to fight or atleast to watch your back.
PVTs might be an obstacle, but nothing that can't be avoided with some planing, skills and brains.
and your blaming me for being short sited... no one avoids war. everytime we get an empire war we go out solo and in gangs to find targets... but a contant war thats stops our industrialists from flying in empire forever is just stupid!
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.06 12:17:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kai Jyokoroi
Christ, stop whining. They're not that annoying.
Just shoot back.
trust me i do... but the love to click and dock
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.06 12:19:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Conrad Rock
CPP wants to protect the average new player through what seems to the rest of us as bad game mechanics. Considering that...
We cannot ask for a longer docking time for EVERYONE, but we can ask for a longer docking timer for those who initiate the wardec. Like so, you cannot be grieved/cheated effectively, if you fight back, your ubber war-deckers/mercenaries can't dock like cowards. War-decking should have consequences for all involved! It's not a license to pirate the inexperienced in high-sec while running away from their PVP gang.
CPP, just think of why most big alliances don't bother with chasing war-deccers in general (not just PA)? there's no point in changing the war dec cost, the system is still less than desirable!
Instead of nerfing war-decs, make it MORE ENJOYABLE.
thats brilliant! i chose this solution!
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.06 12:28:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ayumu Kosuga
Originally by: Minigin
Originally by: Ayumu Kosuga
Originally by: Minigin
they even run away from even numbers and gunpower...
sorry .. but this "argument" is short sighted.
your standings != their standings
you see maybe 5 wartargets, PVTs see 25 ... from your POV they avoid even fights, from their POV they avoid getting blobbed.
oh .. and if you join a 0.0 alliance and expect to be a safe and happy carebear - get real. either you're able to support your alliance or you're dead weight.
people who scream "omg wardec! can't do my business anymore!!1!!" are NOT supporting their alliance. supporting an alliance means either being able to fight or atleast to watch your back.
PVTs might be an obstacle, but nothing that can't be avoided with some planing, skills and brains.
and your blaming me for being short sited... no one avoids war. everytime we get an empire war we go out solo and in gangs to find targets... but a contant war thats stops our industrialists from flying in empire forever is just stupid!
you know - denying someone ressources is a valid strategy in war.
they don't stop your industrial operations in empire. they only stop "stupid" industrial operations in empire.
AFK hauling? better don't do it.
flying blindly around? better don't do it - get a scout.
it's not like PVTs can't be overcome with teamwork.
i'm going to stop replying to your posts guys because you have cirular arguments that arnt ever going to end... "privateers are good cos they pwn noobs... if yo ucant hack it leave, they are totaly fine for a stratagy of war even though they arnt being payed for most of their decs they are doing it for more free kills in empire" if you cant see the inherent flaws in your arguments then no one here can help you... and im going to stop trying to...
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.07 02:45:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Car Salesman
A dying alliance who is forced to use empire heavily again comes crying to the forums, lol, classic.
lol, classic, random noob with no ticker decides to post with an alt about stuff he knows nothing about. Our entire membership lives constantly in 0.0. retard.
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.07 02:48:00 -
[16]
Originally by: BlackPrince
To the OP: I'd suggest you stick to what you know. Why is that self declared "experts" in one field feel that their expertise carries over to a totally unrelated field?
The merc business is booming, and will continue to do so for the forseeable future. If your alliance can't protect you, perhaps you should look at aiding the merc market and hire some to protect you.
Second, Privateers do offer an alternative for those Carebear corps for whose case you claim to plead. An example: Prior to joining KIA, my corporation, Trinity Nova, was contracted against an Empire industrial Alliance. They were outclassed, and knew it. They contracted Privateers against us, for what little good it did. Still, I'm sure they felt better knowing they were at least able to offer some token resistance.
Are privateers annoying? Somewhat. Do they hinder gameplay? Only for the stupid and lazy. I like to think of Privateers as adding chlorine to the Jita (and surrounding systems) gene pool.
no... the major alliance mercs are benifiting... the small merc corps are dieing out... in fact most seem to join privateers.
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.07 02:54:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Crazy Tasty
To the OP, parroting mindless incorrect trash FTL. Most of your post is the same idiotic smack that has been spewed about Privateers for the last few months, the rest is just lunacy or whining. Take a look at our killboard sometime and most of your arguments will be shot down right there.
Not really much else to say that hasn't been said already. Your blatant bias and wildly incorrect statements killed your post the moment you made it.
YES! "lets throw as many long words into a sentence and hope no one understands that i really am trying to distract attention from the actual argument here" People like you sit at your computers batting off every argument as senseless spam and smack. Unless you can counter argue my beliefs... which is not pointing to a KB that shows prodominantly ganks of ships barely able to defend themselves... then stop posting and go back to camping jita...
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.07 02:54:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Keta Min
Originally by: Arakk
Originally by: Angelus Xenotov
My summation:
1. Boo hoo.
2. Making war decs cost more is: Silly.
3. Allowing concord bribery is not right, wars are fine as is.
4. If you're a carebear corp who has zero pvp skills and gets war decced, run (Like the cowards you are) back to an NPC corp. (But we want POS'S!! You cry, well then, better get some fighting skills then, idiots.)
5. CCP altering the game dynamics because Privateers go to war AND ACTUALLY FIGHT IN IT is silly, if you disagree with that, quit EvE, one less whiner is always a good thing.
Wait you actually think privateers fight? They generally only enguage ships that dont have guns, you know the ones that show up on your overview as a rectangle. Well...unless they outnumber those ships with guns by 2/3-1.
What you fail to realize is the only reason they war dec is to pirate 0.0 alliances, primarily as they come to empire to trade.
As you should know the word privateer was formed as a phrase for volunteer pirates in the 1600's. Clearly CCP intended for pirates to be able to hunt everywhere in the game with no consequence on security status, no concord interference, and no ability by players to force them to fight when you bring a ship with guns.
Privateers have changed the game, you might not be able to comprehend what im about to say, but they have permanently decced more than half of the game's players. Therefore they as players have changed thousands of systems to 0.0 security status for tens of thousands of people that play.
If you think CCP designed the war dec system and empire with this in mind as a possibility, well i hope you dont hold a position that requires logical thinking in real life.
translation: ohnoes our alliance carebear nubs are getting killed, CCP halp!
hey keta how bout you post here with your privateer char so i can come looking for you...
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.07 07:19:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kara Mori
I wish he'd respond to my comments. 
ide bother responding to you if i didnt think i had answered the issues you raised in the op.
The noob corps that would be wardeced where never perma deced as far as i can remember... furthermore their losses would never be enough to allow the mercs to constantly be paying and targeting them to gain perhaps 3 mill a week... OH WHAT FUN I KILLED ANOTHER SHUTTLE GUYS! THIS ONE HAD A UNIT OF TRIT IN IT! no... alliances have people working with t2 stuff for it in empire... besides even people defending the privateers have said "yes they are high sec pirate" not mercs. The issue now is weather this high sec piracy should be allowed to continue with so few repercussions...
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.07 13:43:00 -
[20]
To all you who feal the need to tell me that im uber noob because i dont wtf pwn those nublet privateers...
IF YOUR SO HARD! MR. Trimverate and MR. KIA HOW BOUT YOU GO AND ****ING KILL THEM YOURSELVES?
"oh but if you go shoping whil war deced your an idiot..."
I WOULDNT ****ING MIND IF IT WAS A WEEK WAR OR EVEN A MONTH WAR.... BUT TO HAVE A CONSTANT WAR DEC AND NOT GO SHOPPING ARE YOU RETARDED? NO PERHAPS I SHOULD JUST ZAP SHIPS OUT OF THIN AIR INTO MY 0.0 HANGER!!!!
"well i hope your leadership hasnt got anything to do with this cos its all flames"
WHERE THE **** IS THE FLAMING? I FIND THIS A SERIOUS ABUSE OF A WAR DEC SYSTEM! I BELIEVE CCP NEVER INTENDED IT TO BE USED IN SUCH A WAY AND IM MAKING MY POV HEARD! IF OYU HAVE A ****ING PROBLEM WITH THAT GTFO MY THREAD PLZ!
"your so nub cos you cant hac empire pvp, your probably an indutrialists"
****ING RIGHT I MINE THE ORE OUTTA YOUR ****ING SHIPS! (for those of you who are getting mad at my caps lock... imagine me screaming very loudly into this guys face...)
"they war deced us and did nothing... cos they suck... you should hire us..."
**** you... your no better than they are.
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
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Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.07 14:35:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Dekiri
Edited by: Dekiri on 07/04/2007 14:19:39
Originally by: Minigin
To all you who feal the need to tell me that im uber noob because i dont wtf pwn those nublet privateers...
IF YOUR SO HARD! MR. Trimverate and MR. KIA HOW BOUT YOU GO AND ****ING KILL THEM YOURSELVES?
"oh but if you go shoping whil war deced your an idiot..."
I WOULDNT ****ING MIND IF IT WAS A WEEK WAR OR EVEN A MONTH WAR.... BUT TO HAVE A CONSTANT WAR DEC AND NOT GO SHOPPING ARE YOU RETARDED? NO PERHAPS I SHOULD JUST ZAP SHIPS OUT OF THIN AIR INTO MY 0.0 HANGER!!!!
"well i hope your leadership hasnt got anything to do with this cos its all flames"
WHERE THE **** IS THE FLAMING? I FIND THIS A SERIOUS ABUSE OF A WAR DEC SYSTEM! I BELIEVE CCP NEVER INTENDED IT TO BE USED IN SUCH A WAY AND IM MAKING MY POV HEARD! IF OYU HAVE A ****ING PROBLEM WITH THAT GTFO MY THREAD PLZ!
"your so nub cos you cant hac empire pvp, your probably an indutrialists"
****ING RIGHT I MINE THE ORE OUTTA YOUR ****ING SHIPS! (for those of you who are getting mad at my caps lock... imagine me screaming very loudly into this guys face...)
"they war deced us and did nothing... cos they suck... you should hire us..."
**** you... your no better than they are.
I sense a bleeding vagina.
I would strongly suggest you seek help my friend, because you apparently have lost your marbles.
I am quite sure KIA and TRI have both killed more privateers then your alliance has ever, so stop with that nonsense. IF you are seriously that troubled about a freaking empire war dec then you probably should look into WoW or something like
that where you can never loose something and everybody is happy!
On a second note.. please don't you are a fountain of joy=p
It is btw not rocket science to avoid getting killed in highsec. It is actually quite easy to organise. If your members are not smart enough to avoid getting ganked over and over in empire privateers are for sure not your biggest problem.
And I will repeat.... I HOPE for your alliance that you have nothing to say in it, because you make your alliance look like a bunch of nice targets who also will come to the forums and cry if hurt enough, wich alone would make me war dec you if I was a pirate=)
Btw... shouting at KIA or TRI can easily get you some serious extra fun if you are not a bit more careful. I am sure your superiors would cry like babies if they received the proper answer to such well placed words. I am not sure how long you have been playing eve, but I am VERY sure that you have no idea what you are on about when you start arguing with the wrong people about nonsense. If anyone has yet not war declared your alliance you are seriously advertising it well. As I already said, this thread alone would make me seriously interested in a war dec against your alliance, since you guys apparently lack the ability to defend your own asses.
PS: The use of the caps lock key like you seem to like it is probably also a guaranteed way to get people to laugh at your emo ways.
oh so you seriously think KIA and Tri would drop what they are doing and attack wolf because your pride is hurt that you just where made a fool out of? On a completly seperate point... you lot have no clue what your talking about... privateers have only ever killed a shuttle of mine... so im not doing this because they kill me... im posting because i think what they are doing is not what CCP intended and i think things have to change to ensure the continued existance of high sec space.
and tbh i think kia and tri are both great pvp alliances but your posts here made little if any sense and i think if your so confident in your abilities and think the privateer menace can be solved through brute force... you should show me and the rest of the verse.
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.07 14:45:00 -
[22]
Originally by: BlackPrince
Edited by: BlackPrince on 07/04/2007 14:35:35
Originally by: Minigin
To all you who feal the need to tell me that im uber noob because i dont wtf pwn those nublet privateers...
IF YOUR SO HARD! MR. Trimverate and MR. KIA HOW BOUT YOU GO AND ****ING KILL THEM YOURSELVES?
"oh but if you go shoping whil war deced your an idiot..."
I WOULDNT ****ING MIND IF IT WAS A WEEK WAR OR EVEN A MONTH WAR.... BUT TO HAVE A CONSTANT WAR DEC AND NOT GO SHOPPING ARE YOU RETARDED? NO PERHAPS I SHOULD JUST ZAP SHIPS OUT OF THIN AIR INTO MY 0.0 HANGER!!!!
"well i hope your leadership hasnt got anything to do with this cos its all flames"
WHERE THE **** IS THE FLAMING? I FIND THIS A SERIOUS ABUSE OF A WAR DEC SYSTEM! I BELIEVE CCP NEVER INTENDED IT TO BE USED IN SUCH A WAY AND IM MAKING MY POV HEARD! IF OYU HAVE A ****ING PROBLEM WITH THAT GTFO MY THREAD PLZ!
"your so nub cos you cant hac empire pvp, your probably an indutrialists"
****ING RIGHT I MINE THE ORE OUTTA YOUR ****ING SHIPS! (for those of you who are getting mad at my caps lock... imagine me screaming very loudly into this guys face...)
"they war deced us and did nothing... cos they suck... you should hire us..."
**** you... your no better than they are.
Wow. Would you like a tissue for that?
As far as killing Privateers, we have, the two times they were contracted against us and we achieved a 3:1 kill ratio against them both times. Privateers go after two types of targets: The easy ones and the ones they get paid to shoot at. I think it's become abundantly clear where exactly you fall on that totem pole.
As far as being no better than they are, I never claimed any moral superiority. I just pointed out that you're obviously not a Mercenary and don't even have the foggiest notion what the current job market is for pilots in my chosen profession. You're argument to the contrary was based on assumptions and nothing more.
This is obviously an emotional issue for you, and one where you're completely incapable and or unwilling to argue with any resembling logic. You use ad hominem attacks against anyone who disagrees with you, make up "facts" on the fly, and use tired arguments which, were you to actually fight Privateers or look at their kb, are quite obviously wrong.
Do they camp? Yes. Camping is one of the most effective means of killing an unwilling (or unsuspecting) foe in the game. So does everyone else.
Do they perma war-dec corps or Alliances? Yes, those that have proven to be fun or profitable for them. Being a Mercenary you learn to take nothing personal because you lose you're edge. Thats what separates the professionals from the amateurs. Well, that and a lot of other things but thats a tangent for another time.
Stop giving them easy kills and maybe they'll move on.
As far as us dealing with Privateers. We're Mercenaries, pay us and we will. Otherwise, unless they war dec us, we have little if any interest in pursuing them as there are no isk to be made doing so. That's how the Mercenary business model works, but I'm sure you already knew that given your obvious expertise in the field of Mercenary Corporations.
youve made a believer out of me...
Camping jita 4 - 4 is fine...
you're much smarter than me...
and you know that ive been leaking easy kills to them in my awsome t2 haulers...
i will be hiring you as soon as i can afford a war dec and im sure you'll accept.
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.07 14:55:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Dekiri
Originally by: Minigin
oh so you seriously think KIA and Tri would drop what they are doing and attack wolf because your pride is hurt that you just where made a fool out of? On a completly seperate point... you lot have no clue what your talking about... privateers have only ever killed a shuttle of mine... so im not doing this because they kill me... im posting because i think what they are doing is not what CCP intended and i think things have to change to ensure the continued existance of high sec space.
and tbh i think kia and tri are both great pvp alliances but your posts here made little if any sense and i think if your so confident in your abilities and think the privateer menace can be solved through brute force... you should show me and the rest of the verse.
We have declared wars for less my friend =p And I do know that at some point if someone is to annoying and flames our alliance or people he will get his share in one way or the other=) You are already being a problem for your alliance if you ask me.
If you really think anyone indicated that the "privateer menace" can be solved through brute force, then you still don't get it.
And I am going to call you a noob on this again, because first of all you will not solve a "problem" like privateers by shooting their ships. The only way you can get rid of them is by not getting shot. And if you are not getting shot by them, they are a non issue.
If you really believe anyone of us here believes that you are "just doing it for the sake of ccp and the game" I have to say that you really did loose your marbles. You are crying here like a baby and you apparently had someone pod you or you would not be as emo about it. Be it on that char or another I really don't care.
Your corp is apparently the biggest "loser" to privateers in your whole alliance 2kills 90losses?.. I guess our ideas are not to far off when we call you a noob. Your corp alone seems to loose 4 to 5 ships DAILY to privs...
Your problem is idiocy, not privateers.
oh and you of course checked my personal stats against them? nono i insit your right im a noob. how dare i lose 1 pod to privateers and get so... worked up about things... youve cut to the core of the issue... my entire corp is alts of me... thats surely why im doing this...
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.07 15:01:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Minigin on 07/04/2007 15:00:58
Originally by: Dekiri
Edited by: Dekiri on 07/04/2007 14:48:28
Originally by: Minigin
youve made a believer out of me...
Camping jita 4 - 4 is fine...
you're much smarter than me...
and you know that ive been leaking easy kills to them in my awsome t2 haulers...
i will be hiring you as soon as i can afford a war dec and im sure you'll accept.
The fact that this is an alt of your has probably reached everyone here by now. Unless of course you really never shoot anyone ever ...
Is it really so hard to grasp? DO NOT BUY YOUR STUFF IN JITA WHEN YOU HAVE BEEN WAR DECCED PERIOD
There are many other places to buy your things, but if you guys keep going to jita....
wow sarcasm doesnt come out well over the net but heres evidance to you fools who think im not a pvper and this isnt my main.
Linkage
edit: other markets are just as bad... ammar is for sure...
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.08 00:33:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Minigin on 08/04/2007 00:32:26
Originally by: Dekiri
Originally by: Minigin
Originally by: Dekiri
Edited by: Dekiri on 07/04/2007 14:48:28
Originally by: Minigin
youve made a believer out of me...
Camping jita 4 - 4 is fine...
you're much smarter than me...
and you know that ive been leaking easy kills to them in my awsome t2 haulers...
i will be hiring you as soon as i can afford a war dec and im sure you'll accept.
The fact that this is an alt of your has probably reached everyone here by now. Unless of course you really never shoot anyone ever ...
Is it really so hard to grasp? DO NOT BUY YOUR STUFF IN JITA WHEN YOU HAVE BEEN WAR DECCED PERIOD
There are many other places to buy your things, but if you guys keep going to jita....
wow sarcasm doesnt come out well over the net but heres evidance to you fools who think im not a pvper and this isnt my main.
Linkage
Forum rules my friend! .. thou art not allowed to post killboard links!
Btw... since you did not even post that loss to privateers on your own killboard I think we can assume that you dont post your losses anyways and your real stats are terrible.
You are still a noob and a carebear ... sorry
ok so your angry that i didnt post a pod km? which btw i wait till i have 5 or so kms to post at the same time before i do? to present i have 3 kills i have not posted either but of course your know better than everyone and im a carebear noob... go do somthing else other than read this cos you clearly cant understand what im saying and have to assume huge chunks of your arguments for them to remotly resemble intellect.
edit: another thing i find interesting is that i lost a shuttle with that pod... now i've heard rumours before that privateers dont post their shuttle and noob ship kills or even some hauler kills so that there stats dont look overly griefy. now i still dont believe it as this may just be a remote isolated incident... however... it doesnt look great from this "neglected km"
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.08 00:45:00 -
[26]
Originally by: BlackPrince
Edited by: BlackPrince on 07/04/2007 17:32:16
Edited by: BlackPrince on 07/04/2007 17:31:10
Originally by: Minigin
youve made a believer out of me...
Camping jita 4 - 4 is fine...
you're much smarter than me...
and you know that ive been leaking easy kills to them in my awsome t2 haulers...
i will be hiring you as soon as i can afford a war dec and im sure you'll accept.
You obviously have lost a lot more than you claim, and I find myself inclined to agree with Dekiri, you obviously have a main thats taken some bloody hits from the Privateers. Nobody who's only lost a shuttle gets so vehement about their position. Being a firm believer in Occam's Razor, we have found the simplest (and therefore most likely correct) answer.
Camping Jita 4-4 is fine. Camping anywhere is fine. I have yet to see how it's wrong.
"The purpose of war is not to die for your country but to help the other sorry illegitimate son die for his." - George S. Patton
These words sum up one vital truth about war. If targets continue to go to Jita 4-4, Privs will continue to Camp there. If targets continue to be uncoordinated, stupid, lazy, and easy marks, Privateers will continue to kill them.
I don't see why you seem to have such a problem getting your head around this utterly simple concept. Privateers are predators, learn to combat predatory tactics and they cease to be a problem. Organize against them and then show the lion that even the mouse can roar.
Whine as much as you like, I'm done here. Everyone has made logical, well thought out, and objective arguments to counter your point. You have failed miserably to present yours in a similar light.
Oh, as far as limiting war-decs, currently KIA has war-dec'd 5 seperate Alliances, sometimes we war-dec even more. To limit the number of War-decs a corporation or Alliance could issue would be simply "unfair" and "grief our playstyle" so "waaaaah".
But in all seriousness, there is nothing wrong with the current war-dec system beyond the fact that it might possibly be too cheap. Even then, the low cost allows smaller (poorer) corporations to engage in a vital (and the most exciting) part of this game.
Afterall, not everybody likes to lick rocks and pretend they're a slave. Well, some like to pretend their slaves, but not in game.
so basicaly... you're insisting your right by assuming im an alt... wtf is wrong with you people... im not a friking alt... i have 1 account and 2 nooby alt characters that ive never skilled... EVER...
you just can't believe that i see privateers as a serious problem to the game... just because you cant see it doesnt mean its not true... people who lived through communist russia thought they where living a rather good life. i have never been one to take lightly to unfair use of systems and so i get rather angry when i see people being rather shifty about the way they play this game.
people always tell me "its just a game dont expect honest and decency" but thats a load of crap... how on earth will a corp or an alliance ever function properly without this? furthermore if you cant be honest and decent in a meer game i dont want to meet you in real life.
i seriously dont have time to respond to all of your posts guys cos im busy playng on my main whos in an industrial corp in jita... so sorry if i dont get around to telling you how flawed you're arguments are but for the most part they are based on assumptions which you cant do
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.08 01:01:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Crazy Tasty
Originally by: Minigin
Originally by: Crazy Tasty
My Post.
Ok then, lets tear apart your entire argument, piece by piece.
Yes, I suppose BS/BC/Cruisers ect can not defend themselves with T2 gear on. Please boost them all CCP.
I seriously doubt 95% of the Eve population even cares. Maybe the people you are around have influenced your decision, just because they are targets. In reality, Privateers make up a very small portion of the player base and can not affect 95% of the game.
QFT. You are only safe in this game while docked in an NPC station. I believe it was stated in the tutorial as such, maybe you should re-play it.
Actually, quite a few people like constant PvP. Its what Bydi did before we joined Privs, its what we'll keep doing. Also, what good old fair way would you prefer, suicide empire ganks, no empire war decs, or the old concord you could perma tank? Or maybe the system we have now, where you can just avoid us for a week if you don't want to play.
Again, QFT. Do you seriously know anyone that would not shoot a WT miner or hauler they came across them? I don't think so.
Because 5 mercs can give some specific TLC to a target, Privateers can't. We are spread out and with so many other WT's, why would we bother focusing on one group that probably won't fight anyway.
Or maybe they could just use some common sense and continue their business almost as normal. Scouts, escorts, the map, and numerous other tools are available to help you out. If you are to ignorant to use them, who's fault is that?
Exactly how are the privateers killing out alliance play? I haven't seen BoB, IAC, or any other alliance much bothered by what we do, even when we do score large kills.
First of all, jita is not the only source of mods in the game, other places are close, maybe you are forces to change stations to pick up a mod, and heaven forbid that. Second, the percentage of privateers in Jita on any day are pretty damn small, I don't see 100 to 400 privateers there any time I've been through, so, obviously Privateers do other things. Third, take a look at the killboard sometime, how many kills are in jita, every single one? I thought not. Forth, I can guarantee you of all the kills I have gotten in Jita and the surrounding area, 99% either tried to run, fought, or did some other controlled action. Not just black screened.
My Turn...
BC's and BS' yes the ones ganked outside jita without being able to activate there mods... also the ones that you catch mining... while yes these are fools your not taking much effort to kill them... you get out of a real fight or the cahnce of letting the guy dock.
your right i may have taken my ideas from targets but again how many people are in privateers and other merc corps compared to the rest of the verse? maybe 2000? compared to what like 80000? maybe more...
i think the tutorial was not intending it to be a constant state of panic and frenzy... thats what low sec and 0.0 is for... otherwise we can just get ccp to change it all to 0.0 now... what do you think? good yeh?
i like constant pvp... but i cant pvp properly against fools who sit 100m away from a station at all times, i find much more fair methods to pvp, i have even merced once on request from a friend... but never with the intention to maintain a constant war against them for easy kills and isk reward. furthermore i never engaged soley on my terms, i didnt wait till i had one of them on their own. ide hammer one right infront of his mates then run outand make another pass. not dock and hide from superior numbers...
you want evidance that small merc corps arnt doing as well? all of the ones i knew of joined privateers or became pirates. Previous to privateers wede get one or two wars ever so often... now... just the one... from privateers allllllll the time.
eventualy people who cant avoid losses or support themselves have to join npc corps which is what your prt 2 coming
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.08 01:27:00 -
[28]
This is why i cant respect people like you... you post with a level of ignorance that can only be deflected by claiming im ignorent. what the hell do you think i mean by RL situations? clearly i do not mean... driving a car... traveling on a bus... but consequences... every society since human existance has had laws and punishments.
Small FAST ships are the only ships they dare to move outside range of immediate dock on a station... dont even try argue this with me because ive never seen anything larger than a cruiser that is not nanoed out move away from a station. Props to the few privateers who do actually come out and play but your numbers are so few in an alliance that you look almost none existant.
just because it said on the kb that they use a raven i suspect it doesnt mean it wasnt in docking range of the station.
oh yeh gates... what about the small ships on the gates was it?
your usualy outside first which means you have lag on your side.
this is the best argument ive seen here actually (no sarcasm) your right i wouldnt let you fly off either if your at jita. but the fact of the matter is i wouldnt be wardeccing people or joining a corp with the sole intention of camping jita... but i see many privateers camping jita constantly to name one 000preatorian000, every time i jump into jita he is there at the top of my local list, always outside the station in one of his bs's.
i actually like the idea that another guy presented earlier, the instigator gets the penalty and the others dont... that makes alot of sense to me. if you're big and hard and feel that your confident ni war decing someone you have to be on the recieving end of a restriction.
no my friend i have never had trouble dealing with privateers. you are a neucance that every now and then delays me from getting my new ishkurs... but effectilvy what is being done here is wrong and im not going to sit on my hands and say "its ok the game needs them"
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.08 12:16:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Minigin on 08/04/2007 12:16:51
Originally by: Kara Mori
Edited by: Kara Mori on 08/04/2007 05:07:51
If you want CCP to change the war dec system, you're going to need more people on your side, and very few in this thread have spouted support for your cause. So instead of posting a bunch in your own thread without actually saying anything, why don't you answer a few of the legitimate questions that have been brought up that you have failed to answer. If you can provide a logical argument for them, it could really help your case:
 Why do you think large alliances have any use of mission runners other than tax revenue?
Why can't the average eve player in a larger alliance use a hauler alt to get things from empire to avoid privateers?
What is the benefit of having an alliance that operates out of empire? And I'm talking more about what exactly are the benefits of being in said alliance as opposed to being in an NPC corp, or a corp small enough not to garner attention from privateers.
Do you think this game is intended for people to adapt to become better, or a place where the devs should change everything if it's "too hard" for players to deal with and make it easier?
You never addressed those issues when I brought them up, even though I know you'd like to think so.
I dont see the problem with alliances using mission runners however i think they get alot more revenue out of 0.0 npc'ers
No one should be forced to make an alt to survive in this game... furthermore i assume your not going to fit a battlecruiser in said bestower?
who said anything about an alliance that opperates out of empire? alot of us just want to buy the stuff we cant get in 0.0 and get straight back there... furthermore i think what makes eve so great is the contact with other people. being in an npc corp youll get alot of chatter in corp chat but its not much working together to achieve somthing...
no as i've clearly stated privateers is abusing the system as i believe eve is ment to have repercussions to actions... where the hell are the repercussions for privateers?
all the things i've just said are not new ive stated them before so in that sense yes i have... address your apparent questions...
on top of all this its ridiculous for you to say that i need more people to side with me because im the only one posting here for this idea... but excluding privateers there have been 4 other guys who have been against my idea repeatedly posting... surprise surprise they are in major merc alliances also!
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.08 12:18:00 -
[30]
Originally by: smallgreenblur
I don't want to be pointing out flaws or anything, but if privateers only ever engage in frigs off stations then shouldn't they be easy targets? I know when we see frig gangs we go fit dual webbers and watch them go pop a lot.
Also, I know there is a limit on the number of active wars allowed, does anybody know what this is and how many people it therefore affects?
sgb
im not 100 percent sure but i hear privateers hasnt hit the limit yet... i once heard a corp could only war dec 3 other entities... but im not too sure about that. judging by the ammount of wars privateers have atm i would think that is not the case.
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
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Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2007.04.08 23:34:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Ryysa
Edited by: Ryysa on 08/04/2007 16:28:04
lol, the above post (thomas maleficus) wins.
Tbh, I think I will donate 50m/week to privateers just to keep the OP wardecced.
Yarr and all that. 
Actually I'd like to address this.
First of all - reprecussions exist for privateers just as for anyone else - they get often ganked by superiour enemy force. Simple. It's hard to see how many hostiles you have in local when there's 100+ people in it, and that's often the case with empire hubs.
Second of all, regarding employment, you won't have the slightest problem. The only people crying are either complete carebears or pvpers who can't be arsed to fight privateers in empire and go "buhu" because they can't afk haul.
You won't have trouble finding employment at all - since most good pvpers realise that privateers do what they do to get more targets, and there's /nothing/ wrong with that.
Originally by: Minigin
No one should be forced to make an alt to survive in this game... furthermore i assume your not going to fit a battlecruiser in said bestower?
You're not forced to, leave your alliance and that's it. And if you're too retarded to think for 10 seconds and fit a TRAVEL fitting on your battlecruiser bc's have between 4 to 7 lowslots, shouldn't be hard to figure out what to put there.
Quote:
on top of all this its ridiculous for you to say that i need more people to side with me because im the only one posting here for this idea... but excluding privateers there have been 4 other guys who have been against my idea repeatedly posting... surprise surprise they are in major merc alliances also!
First of all, since you attempt to discredit people who disagree with you, I will now discredit you.
1. You /are/ in a noobish carebear alliance who don't know the first thing about PvP. I have personal experience fighting your alliance, and you are horrible.
2. As of time of posting, you have 123 kills and 19 losses on your killboard, in a timeframe 6 months!!!! That means that you kill less than 20 people per MONTH. Any decent pvper does that in a DAY. You /are/ horrible at pvp.
3. Your spelling is incoherent, you are unable to write proper paragraphs never mind properly responding to arguments raised against you.
4. You clearly don't know how to play the game from the few statements you have made (such as inability to fit a ship for travelling.)
5. You talk about some screwed up values of respect - while clearly, no wider audience respects you in EvE.
6. And lastly, this is my opinion of you.
Good luck with your "Idea".
simply because you cant read im not going to type it up for you again ok? you can go look for the answers to your questions in this thread... yes it will take time but it took me time to answer them all and im not doing it again.
now to your credit you are a good pvper... but to your disgrace you dont know me well enough to say im a noob or not. i don't give a **** who respects me... as long as im doing what i think is right. tbh ide be stuffed spellchecking this and properly paragraphing it if i didnt have other stuff to worry about... but as i said earlier i dont care what you think of me.
dont think im not familiar to nff's tactics for pvp. you think your hardcore? eXtas for a rather long time and still to this day is flying nano ships. do you realise how impossibly hard they are to kill? give me enough isk to build one and im pretty damn sure i wont lose it for a very long time. even with the nerf eXtas still breaks 4km/s in his t2 bc. (with pretty psycho acceleration) your no better and no savvy'er than most of us. you just have enough isk to do stuff we've all thought of.
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.09 03:21:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Kara Mori
Originally by: Minigin
I dont see the problem with alliances using mission runners however i think they get alot more revenue out of 0.0 npc'ers
This did not address my question, please read it again.
Quote:
No one should be forced to make an alt to survive in this game... furthermore i assume your not going to fit a battlecruiser in said bestower?
No one said you were forced to, but it's something you should consider spending a single day of training on if you're going to be in an alliance. Is that not reasonable? What you're basically saying here that there should be no real empire risk if you decide to join an alliance. Or would it be just fine with you if privateers only war-dec'd 10 alliances and yours was always one of them? Would that still be ok in your eyes?
You also can build nearly every ship reasonably in 0.0 , and usually at a fraction of the cost for what you'd get in empire (and I honestly don't know any alliance that DOESN'T build battleships and battlecruisers in 0.0, along with cruisers). I can understand maybe getting a command ship or something of that nature, but you're complaining about newbies getting ganked. Newbies don't fly HAC's and command ships. Anyone who flies such ships can stand to reasonably pay a few extra mil to buy their ship elsewhere, or god-forbid leave your alliance for a day.
Quote:
who said anything about an alliance that opperates out of empire? alot of us just want to buy the stuff we cant get in 0.0 and get straight back there... furthermore i think what makes eve so great is the contact with other people. being in an npc corp youll get alot of chatter in corp chat but its not much working together to achieve somthing...
Again, does not address my question. But I will clarify, what makes an alliance (when operating out of empire) any better than a glorified chat channel? I asked this before too, but you've ignored it.
The point I'm getting to since you are being dense, is that I don't see why you need to be in an alliance to do empire stuff, thus there is no reason to complain when your alliance gets war dec'd.
Quote:
no as i've clearly stated privateers is abusing the system as i believe eve is ment to have repercussions to actions... where the hell are the repercussions for privateers?
I'll agree to disagree here, however to answer your question, privateers spend billions each week for these war decs, and are constantly at a state of war. The risks are EXACTLY the same as any of you they've war dec'd. They should not be faulted because of people's laziness or stupidity.
Quote:
all the things i've just said are not new ive stated them before so in that sense yes i have... address your apparent questions...
on top of all this its ridiculous for you to say that i need more people to side with me because im the only one posting here for this idea... but excluding privateers there have been 4 other guys who have been against my idea repeatedly posting... surprise surprise they are in major merc alliances also!
In reality, you've answered one of my questions. Please read over them again, though if you need clarification as to what I'm asking, I guess I can try to explain it a bit better. I didn't think it was that hard...
Overall, I just don't like it when people claim there needs to be a drastic change to a long accepted game mechanic of EVE, and have put so little thought into it as you have.
let me just point out one thing. A war should have an aim. to settle a dispute of some sort... privateers dont have any goals through their wars they just want more targets... if you cant get your head around this then stop posting here.
i seriously am not wasting more breathe on any more of your stupidity.
if you want to suggest somthing to do about the problem go ahead, if you want to sign this op then do, but if oy ujust want to flame me go make your own little thread somewhere else and go for it.
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 03:23:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Kara Mori
Edited by: Kara Mori on 09/04/2007
Edit: Oh, and this is Features and Ideas Discussions. I will continue to point out flaws in your arguments, because I don't want CCP to change the war dec system without a good reason. If you really want things to change, you'd better come up with some better reasons than "you don't agree with me so get out of my thread, you're making me look bad  "
no im asking you to stop because i've answered all your questions and you just keep putting them up again with "psuedo" explanations as to why i havn't really answered them.
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.10 03:24:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Thomas Maleficus
Edited by: Thomas Maleficus on 09/04/2007 15:11:50
Edited by: Thomas Maleficus on 09/04/2007 15:09:38
Quote:
let me just point out one thing. A war should have an aim. to settle a dispute of some sort... privateers dont have any goals through their wars they just want more targets... if you cant get your head around this then stop posting here.
i seriously am not wasting more breathe on any more of your stupidity.
if you want to suggest somthing to do about the problem go ahead, if you want to sign this op then do, but if oy ujust want to flame me go make your own little thread somewhere else and go for it.
Wars don't have to have a point. The privateers do have a point though, they want targets, war dec'ing gives them targets. EVE is harsh, suck it up and stop your crying. The game doesn't need to be changed because you **** your pants at the sight of a blinky red or a red square with a white star.
The word you're looking for is breath, not breathe, breathe is what you do, breath is what you take. Could you also tell me when you bought out CCP and took ownership of the forums? Yeah 'cause you don't get to tell anyone they can't post. Get a life and stop your crying.
edit.. Kara Mori has at least tried to engage you in this issue and has asked some simple questions. Want to cry about flaming? Don't direct your hissy fit at Kara Mori. Me on the other hand, meh, I don't care to engage your stupid crying, I'd rather tell you to suck it up and stfu.
hello kara.
wanna send me a screen pic of your char sheet?
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Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2007.04.10 10:37:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Avaleric
Hmm, just witnessed a couple of veteran Privateers blow away a two week old miner, from a small newbie corp, and then jeer at him in local. Not a pretty sight. So much for good war targets...
like i've said... you have to be stupidly nieve, or plainly delusional to believe privateers arn't missusing the war dec system. There has to be some sort of reason behind a war. Not "oh we feel like easy ganks in empire with minimal risks"
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Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2007.04.11 04:34:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Kara Mori
Edited by: Kara Mori on 10/04/2007 20:22:33
Originally by: Minigin
no im asking you to stop because i've answered all your questions and you just keep putting them up again with "psuedo" explanations as to why i havn't really answered them.
No, I plain out said you didn't answer my questions. Here, I'll say it again:
You didn't answer my questions. Want me to re-iterate? I mean, 3rd times a charm maybe:
What's the benefit of having an alliance in empire? You never answered that, and it's core to your argument. I already refuted your "reasons", and you haven't come up with anything since.
To me, alliance is a glorified chat channel, and is not needed for ANYTHING else in empire that can't be done in an alt corp or an NPC corp. You have yet to give an answer as to what that benefit is. Probably because there isn't one and you know it.
Also, laffo at your last accusation. Getting a bit paranoid are we? Though I'd be happy to send you a login screenshot if you'd like.
Edit: I will sweeten the deal. Actually answer my question, and I'll get out of your thread.
you stupid troll... im gonna make it so clear you cant miss it if you tried...
1. WHAT THE HELL IS YOUR QUESTION... IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ISSUE! WE ARE TALKING ABOUT 0.0 ALLIANCES.
2. ITS NOT EMPIRE LIFE YOU TROLL! WE LIVE IN 0.0 AND SOME OF US WHO WANT TO SPEND A DAY IN EMPIRE TO SHOP OR KILL SOME MACRO MINERS WOULD LIKE TO DO THAT IN ****ING PEACE! IF YOU THINK AN ALLIANCE IS JUST A GOLORIFIED CHAT CHANNEL YOUR A SHALLOW PERSON WHO I DONT EVER WANT TO MEET IN RL.
3. YES I WANT BOTH OF YOU AND THE OTHER TROLL'S LOGIN SCREEN. SEND ME A LINK INGAME. IF YOUR NOT THE SAME PERSON THEN IM SURPRISED BUT ILL KNOW EXACTLY WHO YOUR ALTS ARE AND IF THEY EVER SET FOOT OUTSIDE OF EMPIRE SPACE AND IM THERE THEY WILL DIE A MOST HORRIBLE DEATH.
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.11 04:37:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Jonas Umbator
Originally by: Minigin
they continue to kill haulers and miners in high sec space
look at destroyed: http://privateer.griefwatch.net/?p=top10
2 of the top 10 are shuttles which means they were on AP = their own fault.
657 of our almost 36k kills are badger mark II's = 1.8%
2.4% = Ibis which means newb or free shuttle and really doesn't even matter.
The rest are combat ships. It's a stereotype that all of our kills are miners and haulers.
Originally by: Minigin
Areas that have been affected by Privateers:
- MercÆing: who needs 5 specialists when you can just hire 500 jita campers...
- Research & Industry: Empire industrialists and mission runners are forced to leave their alliance to continue getting payed.
People say this is fair, however i ask is it fair to force the alliance system to die out so that privateers can get their easy kills?
- Market system: Jita was previously a place where everyone could resupply and continue doing whatever they do... not since privateers were created. They steak out 4 - 4 and wait for the first unlucky person who gets jitas infamous black screen of death.
Everyone knows we like jita. If anything this should help other markets since people might be hesitant to go to Jita. We're part of the "Need for Speed" initiative by reducing pressure on Jita! We are anti-alliance but this means that your alliance will only be fitter. We cut the fat off. We aren't killing the alliance system. That's an absurd statement that underestimates the testicular fortitude of thousands of people. And researches/industrialists leaving an alliance to keep getting paid? What are these industrialists getting in return? Couldn't their alliance help protect them if they are so important? Or better yet, hire mercs to protect them. I dont think we're dampening mercs. Only increasing their need.
Originally by: Minigin
How Privateers avoid repercussions:
- Use of small light ships
- gank haulers miners make off with loot with minimal risk in isk value and actual chance of dieing.
- Largely using stations to do their "pvp"
see top 10 flown ships: http://privateer.griefwatch.net/?p=top10
In order, myrm, crow, ranis, domi, thorax, hurricane, drake, huginn, mega, geddon. not exactly t1 frigs.
Pvp at stations sucks. The enemy can dock. And if their is a fight it's gonna be mutual because of this instead of at the gates when someone might just be traveling. This statement excludes Jita due to it's lag but see my point above about increasing the viability of other markets.
As long as there are wardecs and big alliances, we're not going away. Sure the price of wardecs could stand to be adjusted for inflation but this only means that instead of a wardec every other week, you might have one every third week now.
Your post is very misinformed and has minimal impact.
NOW ON THAT LAST LINK YOU SENT... WHERE ARE ALL THE KILLS BEING MADE? DARE I SAY LG/BLACKSCREEN OF DEATH?
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.11 06:22:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Thomas Maleficus
Edited by: Thomas Maleficus on 11/04/2007 05:35:07
Here it is, now maybe you'll quit with the tantrums and crying? War dec's don't need to be changed, got it?
photoshop because you know i'm right?
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.12 07:07:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Keta Min
well, in the end privateers are getting nerfed, carebears win again. who would've thought.
in other words... ccp agreed with me ^^. kara her alt's and your arguments did not sway ccp and those of us who argued against privateers where right.
+ kara you had 2 days to photoshop that and thats the best you can do? besides youde have to think im uber naieve to think you dont have any alts. but then you know that if you left your real ones ide be able to track them down.
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.04.12 07:09:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Jonas Umbator
Originally by: Minigin
NOW ON THAT LAST LINK YOU SENT... WHERE ARE ALL THE KILLS BEING MADE? DARE I SAY LG/BLACKSCREEN OF DEATH?
That's all you have to say to my post? I'm pretty sure CCP and the entire community are aware of the lag in Jita. Jita's lag is not our fault. But people still go there even in war. If anything our efforts are getting people not to go to Jita and help spread out the market and server-load. I personally avoid Jita because of the lag as do many others. Many PVTRS hate fighting in there due to the lag. But going to Jita during war with privateers is like going on AP during war - you're asking for it.
14% of our 36k kills are in Jita. 10% of our losses are there too.
Again your statements are poorly thought out and have little impact.
you troll you where trying to argue that you actually pvped. Well killing lagged out ships isnt pvp... now instead of just jita... add ammar and the other major industrial markets. woops privateers only kill 10% outside them... SURPRISE SURPRISE!
Your signature <----- My awsome Sig |
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Minigin
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2007.04.14 01:39:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
Edited by: Hugh Ruka on 13/04/2007 13:45:20
Originally by: Kara Mori
Edited by: Kara Mori on 13/04/2007 13:22:19
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
Lol ... some news here to learn after 6 months break.
I think Minigin is right, there should be some rules. Please note I have no experience with PA, only what I read on this thread so I ma be waaaay of bat.
1. If you make 14% of kills in a SINGLE SYSTEM (coincidently the most crowded one) and you have war deced 50%+ of existing alliances, then I think there is something wrong. Think about it. more than 1/10 of the kills in one system with many thousands of players war deced ?
2. Counter for the problem. Corps can wardec corps (or alliances) with financial fee depending on the war decing corp size. The larger the corp, the higher the fee (let's start at 1 mio isk a member/week). Alliance can wardec anybody only if they operate a tower in 0.0. You have to have the responsibilities if you want to have the benefits. Or to make it simpler. Alliance can issue wardecs for the number of systems they hold sovereignity in.
3. The above is only in efect if you want to wardec. If you are on the receiving end, the penalties apply to the one war-decing you. Means you can still provoke wars.
Conclusion:
0.0 life is unafected (mostly). Normal corps are unafected. Non 0.0 alliances cannot wardec anybody without living in 0.0, but can be wardeced as normal. end of story
All kinds of thing wrong with this suggestion. First off, you admit yourself you have no experience with PA, so why exactly do you think they're a problem in the first place? Really, you need to be in a large alliance and then see how easy they are to deal with before you make any judgment. It will help you see how whiny Minigin truly is.
First off you're basically destroying the smaller merc market because they'd never have a chance to do a contract against any of the larger entities; it would become prohibitively expensive for both the mercs and their client (clients usually pay the war-dec fee.
Also, if privateers only have to stick up a tower in a system so they don't have to pay a war-dec fee....I don't even know what to say about that. Basically, you're saying that if an alliance is unable to hold sovereignty, they should be denied the ability to war dec? What kind of king-of-the-hill bull**** is that? So much for a merc market AT ALL, right?
Anyway, no, these suggestions are even worse than the ones suggested in the OP. Maybe stick to showing WHY privateers are exploiting, and go fight a few of them yourself before making more suggestions.
Do you even read ?
1. I admited my bias full front ... you have a problem with that ?
2. small merc market is not affected anyway. a corp can wardec anybody just the wardec fee changes dependent on the merc corp member count. so the smaller the merc corp, the cheaper the wardec.
3. You DO NOT NEED wardecs in 0.0. Wars are waged on standing and not war dec status. You could check my ingame stats to see I should know something about alliance wars. Thou I am a carebear, I live in 0.0 and I DEFEND my alliance space when hostiles turn up. Only "bastard" alliances like PA will get hindered, they need to claim system sovereignity to wardec in empire. Seems they are reaping all the benefits without any responsibility (0.0, sovereignity maintenance, sec status hit etc.).
But hey, you can still ignore me.
dude, give up. this is just 4 of the same pro-privateers spamming this in the hope that ccp doesn't change the rules.
they don't listen at all, and are too narrow minded to understand good arguments anyway.
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