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Aria Jenneth
Kumiho's Smile
Naraka.
21
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Posted - 2011.04.07 22:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey, all. I just had this thought cross my mind, and it's likely been proposed before, but I thought I'd run it past all you more-experienced piratical types and see what you think.
So, it's widely understood that the current bounty system in Eve is kerbusted. Badly. It functions mostly as a pirate badge of honor, and not as a viable basis for a "bounty hunter" profession. And putting a bounty on the head of a functionally-immortal being is just kind of ... weird.
I had a thought that perhaps bounties could be set so that they pay out on ship, not pod, kills-- and they pay out only upon receipt of a killmail (or, perhaps, a cumulative series of killmails?) worth, say, twice or three times what the bounty was. Don't count modules in the total that aren't destroyed, but grant the hunter the right to loot the wreck, as well.
Call it a bounty for infliction of substantial economic harm. You could structure it so that 1) individual component bounties in the total pay out on individual, smaller kills, one at a time, if the value of the kill is at least twice the value of the individual bounty; or 2) a single kill can collect the whole shebang if it is worth at least twice (?) the total value of all bounties on the target.
This could also be tied to CONCORD protections, and might even replace the current "outlaw" system: even in hisec, a pilot flying a ship that at least one bounty could pay out on could be unprotected from bounty hunters. Outlaws could be allowed to travel hisec freely, but at their own substantial risk.
Makes bounty-hunting potentially profitable, but 1) all bounty collections mean an economic loss for the target greater than the bounty received and 2) bounty-hunters would have adequate privileges for hunting a target to be potentially profitable/worthwhile.
Thoughts? |
jimmyjam
Sinner Among Saints
Exquisite Malevolence
1
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Posted - 2011.04.07 22:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Not too bad an idea but its still exploitable and easy to circumvent. |
Officer Sugarboots
Jita Customs and Excise
0
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Posted - 2011.04.07 23:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
It also sounds like it could be easily exploited. There really is no easy solution to the problem. |
Aria Jenneth
Kumiho's Smile
Naraka.
21
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Posted - 2011.04.07 23:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
jimmyjam wrote:Not too bad an idea but its still exploitable and easy to circumvent.
How? There's a net loss of assets involved....
Ah. Insurance.
All right; factor that in. Deduct insurance payout from "value" of kill.
Anything else? |
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
Dystopia Alliance
5
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Posted - 2011.04.07 23:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aria I really like your idea.
I had a whole big thing written up but these forums are weird. I'll try to sum it up.
Bounty. Let's look at that term. The money paid out to bring in an outlaw, or bring him to justice. Dead or alive.
Bounty hunter. A guy who brings in outlaws, dead or alive. *ennio morricone*
Bounty should be, in effect, a monetary representation of how much New Eden hates someone.
Bounty should not be abuse-able to pin a 10 billion ISK price on some random numbnut miner, or to dump isk on a char that's never going to subscribe again to make him look awesome on the bounty board..
A peaceful player who pisses off no-one and putters around in a skiff should not have as high a bounty, as a marauding rapid-attack pirate with hundreds of kills under his belt. A deadly deadly pirate like that will have lots of kills, and lots of people willing to place a bounty on him.
Let's say the bounty was limited to something small and arbitrary, 10 million ISK. Each char can place a bounty on any other char, worth 10 million ISK. Let's say this bounty can only be placed upon ship destruction. You can tie it to kill rights. Anyone you have kill rights on, you can place bounty on.
Victims generally get kill rights on their aggressors, but most victims are carebears who never do anything about it. Now they can place a bounty. 10 million ISK on the guy who killed them, paid upon ship destruction - paid every time, but limited to the market value of the ship + mods destroyed.
Each carebear killed has the chance to add to the pot. To the carebear, 10 mil is probably a pittance. To the pirate, it's a growing mark on their back. Everyone who kills their ship gets the pot.
Exploitable you say? Simply make exploiting bounties for personal gain a ban offense. Ban the first few dozen who try to do it, wait a month, ban a few more. Watch the numbers who try it dwindle.
Suddenly, there's a viable bounty hunting profession.
Suddenly, there's these awesome farmable rats with great AI and awesome bounties and all you gotta do is enter lowsec or null or WH space and take them on, except sometimes they cheat and cyno a dozen SCs on top of you. I think many carebears would risk their awesome ships trying to bag such a payout. I think it would make Eve healthier.
edit: oh hey it's a big long thing again |
Commandant Twinkletoes
Jita Customs and Excise
0
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Posted - 2011.04.07 23:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
It would also be a ganker's paradise if Concord were to be replaced by this system. There would be roaming bands of gankers in high sec blocking off gates etc (much like null sec now). Concord would have to intervene at some point. |
Aria Jenneth
Kumiho's Smile
Naraka.
21
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Posted - 2011.04.08 00:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:Exploitable you say? Simply make exploiting bounties for personal gain a ban offense. Ban the first few dozen who try to do it, wait a month, ban a few more. Watch the numbers who try it dwindle.
Hrrrrrrrrrm.
One problem is how you actually-- ACTUALLY-- track that without having the equivalent of, what was it, "Unholy Rage?" Lots and lots of dedicated resources that CCP would likely grimace at the idea of throwing at the problem. There'd be ways around it, easy-ish ones that could be very difficult to detect (one account at home, one at my girlfriend's house!).
... And is getting ganked by your significant other an offense or not? What if s/he later joins your corp?
It's a neat idea, though-- "I'm a holy terror! Hunt me!" (There'd have to be some way to reduce that bounty, of course. Paying CONCORD to have it taken down, maybe?)
The idea behind my resource-based suggestion is that the bounty payoff is always substantially less than the value of the loss. This will particularly reward bounty hunters who either don't lose much or who hunt in less-expensive ships, allowing a major kill by a cheap-fit fleet to reflect in more than just shininess for the killboard. It also, as far as I can tell, would prevent self-farming by applying two rules of entropy to the event: you can't win, you can't break even.
You do, however, get out of the game when your bounty drops to zero-- unless you provoke someone into putting a bounty on you again.
One thought (partly inspired by your comments on miners getting bounties put on them)-- what if sec status stayed, but only as a function of the maximum bounty that can be placed on a pilot? It could even be set so that you can't raise your sec status above the maximum for your remaining bounty without paying the bounty off yourself in some way.
Commandant Twinkletoes:
The idea here isn't to replace CONCORD. CONCORD would continue to respond to unsanctioned hisec kills, just as they do now. The changes would be:
1) Police ships no longer automatically attack outlaws in hisec. After all, outlaws are outlaws due to attacks on capsuleer ships, and that's really no skin off the empires' noses.
However ...
2) CONCORD no longer responds to aid people with valid bounties on them when they are attacked. Bounty hunters function as an effective arm of law enforcement. Of course, you might get gangs of bounty hunters lurking on the Jita gates to ambush wanted pilots, but I'm not sure this is a bad thing. |
Emorich
Nomad War Machine
0
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Posted - 2011.04.08 00:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
I posted an idea for this issue recently: Fixing the Eve Bounty System and would love thoughts on it.
It's extreme, and weird, admittedly. Mostly looking to inspire conversation and creativity (like this thread) on the topic.
|
Aria Jenneth
Kumiho's Smile
Naraka.
21
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Posted - 2011.04.08 02:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
Further thoughts:
1) Simple maximum bounty computation, draws from general "bounty" pool, so individual bounties don't have to be tracked:
[maximum bounty] = .5 ([total value of loss] - ([insurance payout] + [value of surviving modules]))
... all calculated according to overall average sales price (presumed to be tilted heavily towards hisec market rates).
2) Require licenses and minimum security status for bounty hunters. Prevents pirates in hisec from just getting ganked by any passerby with a set o' guns, makes "bounty hunter" more of a profession and less of a random event. Non-bounty hunters could get a smaller slice of a bounty, or nothing at all. |
Ranox Zek
The Ankou
Raiden.
1
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Posted - 2011.04.08 04:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Not a bad idea, make a person sponsor a bounty on a person up to a specific ISK, and have it pay off the Isk lost by a player on a kill. That way the pirate cant bounty themselves without lose, or have a friend claim the bounty without lose...
You put 100 mil isk bounty someone,
first death they lose 19mil in items , person who killed get s19 mil
next person to kill, causes 92 mil in item lose, person gets 81 mil...
Would allow bounty hunting, would prevent exploit....
post this **** in new ideas. |
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Ortan Murdak
Liberty Storm
Atlas.
0
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Posted - 2011.04.08 06:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Indeed, this should be posted in the Features and Ideas thread
As for the details, I think that this is a strong enough beginning that the good folks at CCP can make it work.
who knows? Maybe they have a way of easily preventing abuse of bounties already thought up in their funny little minds =) |
Aria Jenneth
Kumiho's Smile
Naraka.
21
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Posted - 2011.04.08 07:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ranox Zek wrote:post this **** in new ideas.
Thanks! Duly reposted, and hopefully not in too confusing a form.
I appreciate the support, guys. Further thoughts, comments, and any ideas on ways to get around the system appreciated. |
Austneal
Nero Fazione
Wile E Coyote's
0
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Posted - 2011.04.08 13:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
Emorich wrote:I posted an idea for this issue recently: Fixing the Eve Bounty System and would love thoughts on it. It's extreme, and weird, admittedly. Mostly looking to inspire conversation and creativity (like this thread) on the topic.
I kinda like this idea |
Emorich
Nomad War Machine
0
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Posted - 2011.04.08 19:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
Austneal wrote:Emorich wrote:I posted an idea for this issue recently: Fixing the Eve Bounty System and would love thoughts on it. It's extreme, and weird, admittedly. Mostly looking to inspire conversation and creativity (like this thread) on the topic. I kinda like this idea
Thanks. I've thought about it quite a bit in the past week and can't find a good way to exploit it.
By limiting the max bounty on someone at any one time, you also limit the "damage" to that person, so you won't have people pooling together to bankrupt TheMittani or Jade ;)
The limit should be high, though. Maybe 200M. I dunno.
The bounty ISK could also go into a pool for CCP to use in future charity drives. |
San Fransisco
Silver Falcon Survey
0
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Posted - 2011.04.08 20:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
I also think the bounty system needs updating.
I see some good ideas here. |
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