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Daemun Khanid
Calculated Miscalculation
671
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Posted - 2016.12.14 13:47:08 -
[1] - Quote
Please don't do it. Can think of no other reason why those strong boxes were introduced for this years gifts. It looks like a tech demo for unwanted things to come. Its cheap, tacky and copy cat. 13 years of EvE being something different, lets not fully depress that flush handle just yet. K?
Daemun of Khanid
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Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
312
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Posted - 2016.12.14 13:53:26 -
[2] - Quote
it's coming boiz, get ready |
mkint
1307
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Posted - 2016.12.14 13:54:06 -
[3] - Quote
I've been away and only came back for alpha, and even I know the random loot crates aren't new. They were introduced as a method to sell an exploration site AFTER you complete it but before you find out what the reward was. Even though it stinks like the worst MMOs out there, it's an approach that's far more EVEish. They don't require a key (I don't know if the programming is even in place for keys) much less a key for $.
Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
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Clandestiny
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2016.12.14 14:17:50 -
[4] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:Please don't do it. Can think of no other reason why those strong boxes were introduced for this years gifts. It looks like a tech demo for unwanted things to come. Its cheap, tacky and copy cat. 13 years of EvE being something different, lets not fully depress that flush handle just yet. K? If they could promote it correctly and make it "truly random" giving one (1) super gift (Vanquisher) would be awesome!!!
=ƒªä Why Does Upgrading Cost More? =ƒªä
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Lady Ayeipsia
Perkone Caldari State
1253
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Posted - 2016.12.14 14:27:11 -
[5] - Quote
The serpentis event also had prize boxes, so it is not new.
Did it ever occur to you that it is a logistics/database/programming short cut? It is probably far easier to place 1 container in everyone's redeem queue than each individual item. Even if it is scripted, it is easier to insert one item instead of multiples.
Perhaps instead of seeing demons and potential micro transaction potential in all actions, you can just enjoy the gifts and be thankful that CCP puts the effort in. |
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
256
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Posted - 2016.12.14 14:29:50 -
[6] - Quote
mkint wrote:I've been away and only came back for alpha, and even I know the random loot crates aren't new. They were introduced as a method to sell an exploration site AFTER you complete it but before you find out what the reward was. Even though it stinks like the worst MMOs out there, it's an approach that's far more EVEish. They don't require a key Yet. Bit by bit. Thats how you introduce unpopular changes. |
Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
246
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Posted - 2016.12.14 16:21:45 -
[7] - Quote
Do what now? |
Teclis Eisenstein
Viziam Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2016.12.14 16:34:01 -
[8] - Quote
So we aren't going to all get the same thing in each box? |
Pix Severus
Empty You
5279
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Posted - 2016.12.14 17:47:56 -
[9] - Quote
I got four skins in my loot box.
Try not to say that out loud.
MTU Hunter: Latest Entry - Dec 11 2016 - Return of an MTU Hunter
MTU Hunting 101: Comprehensive Guide
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Clandestiny
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2016.12.14 17:52:18 -
[10] - Quote
Pix Severus wrote:I got four skins in my loot box.
Try not to say that out loud. =ƒÄä=ƒÄü=ƒÆ¬
=ƒªä Why Does Upgrading Cost More? =ƒªä
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2901
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Posted - 2016.12.14 18:00:12 -
[11] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:The serpentis event also had prize boxes, so it is not new.
It's also the drop mechanic used for the NPC mining fleet haulers.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Kosomot
Poseidon Energy and Industrial DRONE WALKERS
36
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Posted - 2016.12.14 18:04:12 -
[12] - Quote
I don't like it either but it is reasonable that RNGesus is also in EVE
Maybe in Jove Space
I am a miner, mission runner, and explorer...
or as EVE Online would have it...
A Carebear!!
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Neuntausend
Rens Nursing Home
1234
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Posted - 2016.12.14 18:54:13 -
[13] - Quote
They had demoed the RNG box before, actually. NPC mining ops can drop those already, and with the F2P move, it's blatantly obvious what these boxes are.
As long as there are only NES and vanity items in there such as skins, fireworks, skill extractors and apparel, I don't see a problem with it. Even if they contained the occasional PLEX that would be alright with me. Those are all items that cannot be acquired from ingame resources and/or don't have any influence on a characters attributes or abilities. If they contain skill injectors, boosters, ships, modules, minerals or ISK, however, that's a different story. |
Daemun Khanid
Calculated Miscalculation
671
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Posted - 2016.12.14 18:56:12 -
[14] - Quote
"Introduced" was obviously a poor choice of words as they did already exist. And I'm certainly grateful for the gifts and effort they put into events. It wasnt all that long ago however that everyone said eve would never go free to play yet here we are. I'm not saying that's a bad thing particularly given the system thats been utilized so far. The point is though that the mechanic for purchasable rng boxes is certainly in place and makes sense as a logical progression that many other mmos that went free to play have followed and its not one I'd personally like to see follow.
First we see f2p w restrictions. Followed by an increase in "fluff" items available for cash to help cover profits. Then a removal a f2p restrictions putting them on par with paid accounts. Then paid accounts recieve months "gifts" like sp and rng boxes for their monthly fee. (And in eve's case something like the abity to multi-box) Somewhere along that line mechanics get simplified to attract more casual players. Then eve is truly f2p.
Seen it happen exactly like that in other mmo's. Next thing you know we've got school girl outfits and panda backpacks for our toons and every ship and weapons platform is "balanced" to perform exactly the same with cosmetic differences. So while rng boxes are just one rung on the ladder its one that I hope ccp dont climb onto.
Daemun of Khanid
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Rovinia
Exotic Dancers Union SONS of BANE
604
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Posted - 2016.12.14 19:58:25 -
[15] - Quote
I'm so waiting for the day when CCP goes like "F*** it, we can't please the players anyway so let's skip the gifts this year".
The outcry here will be hilarious.
What's about a little bit of gratitude? |
mkint
1310
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Posted - 2016.12.14 20:07:41 -
[16] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:"Introduced" was obviously a poor choice of words as they did already exist. And I'm certainly grateful for the gifts and effort they put into events. It wasnt all that long ago however that everyone said eve would never go free to play yet here we are. I'm not saying that's a bad thing particularly given the system thats been utilized so far. The point is though that the mechanic for purchasable rng boxes is certainly in place and makes sense as a logical progression that many other mmos that went free to play have followed and its not one I'd personally like to see follow.
First we see f2p w restrictions. Followed by an increase in "fluff" items available for cash to help cover profits. Then a removal a f2p restrictions putting them on par with paid accounts. Then paid accounts recieve months "gifts" like sp and rng boxes for their monthly fee. (And in eve's case something like the abity to multi-box) Somewhere along that line mechanics get simplified to attract more casual players. Then eve is truly f2p.
Seen it happen exactly like that in other mmo's. Next thing you know we've got school girl outfits and panda backpacks for our toons and every ship and weapons platform is "balanced" to perform exactly the same with cosmetic differences. So while rng boxes are just one rung on the ladder its one that I hope ccp dont climb onto. Then EVE can be dead, all the devs out of a job with a permanent black mark on the resumes as the devs who killed one of the oldest MMOs, and we can all go play something else.
Why do people get so emotional when there's evidence of EVE going away? It's just a video game. They are allowed to go away.
Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
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Violet Hurst
Fedaya Recon
137
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Posted - 2016.12.14 20:53:38 -
[17] - Quote
@OP I wouldn't say your fears are completely unsubstantiated, I would however take solace in the fact that times have changed. We as players have seen these patterns being repeated ad nauseam, but so does CCP. And by now it has become obvious that they don't necessarily lead to success, let alone longevity. So even if CCP's decision making was purely based on analyzing the competition, that stuff might not be much more attractive to them than it is to us. I'd like to point to dailies as an example, which were scrubbed pretty quickly.
That being said, on to the specific topic of lockboxes. After my initial reaction of feeling insulted when being confronted with the concept for the first time, I have developed a mild fascination for it. A quick google search for "lockboxes gaming" reveals a list of big titles that apparently don't even have to iterate on the name. I recall reading somewhere that one game also had a competition among its players as to who would open the most of them on a specific weekend. I'm beginning to wonder if you could nest those things and if, how many recursion levels you could go down and still get people to follow you. The mileage you get on your developer hours would have to be quite spectacular. |
Daemun Khanid
Calculated Miscalculation
671
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Posted - 2016.12.14 21:04:51 -
[18] - Quote
Rovinia wrote:I'm so waiting for the day when CCP goes like "F*** it, we can't please the players anyway so let's skip the gifts this year".
The outcry here will be hilarious.
What's about a little bit of gratitude instead of making up strange suspicions?
No one said anything about the gifts or events. The entire point was concerning the potential application of lockbox mechanics and an opinion on potential future implementation. Your reading comprehension could use a little work friend.
Daemun of Khanid
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mkint
1311
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Posted - 2016.12.14 23:15:04 -
[19] - Quote
Violet Hurst wrote:@OP I wouldn't say your fears are completely unsubstantiated, I would however take solace in the fact that times have changed. We as players have seen these patterns being repeated ad nauseam, but so does CCP. And by now it has become obvious that they don't necessarily lead to success, let alone longevity. So even if CCP's decision making was purely based on analyzing the competition, that stuff might not be much more attractive to them than it is to us. I'd like to point to dailies as an example, which were scrubbed pretty quickly. That being said, on to the specific topic of lockboxes. After my initial reaction of feeling insulted when being confronted with the concept for the first time, I have developed a mild fascination for it. A quick google search for "lockboxes gaming" reveals a list of big titles that apparently don't even have to iterate on the name. I recall reading somewhere that one game also had a competition among its players as to who would open the most of them on a specific weekend. I'm beginning to wonder if you could nest those things and if, how many recursion levels you could go down and still get people to follow you. The mileage you get on your developer hours would have to be quite spectacular. A box that contains itself? Best. "Gift." Ever.
Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
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Clandestiny
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2016.12.14 23:29:18 -
[20] - Quote
=ƒÄä Incursus YC119 Yoiul Festival 'Glacial Drift' Edition SKIN (Permanent) =ƒÄÇ Kestrel YC119 Yoiul Festival 'Glacial Drift' Edition SKIN (Permanent) =ƒÄü Punisher YC119 Yoiul Festival 'Glacial Drift' Edition SKIN (Permanent) =ƒÄà Rifter YC119 Yoiul Festival 'Glacial Drift' Edition SKIN (Permanent)
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=ƒªä G¥ñGò½GòƒGòûAGòÑGòûKG¥ñGòÖGòóOUG¥ñ =ƒªä
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
8393
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Posted - 2016.12.14 23:42:48 -
[21] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote: First we see f2p w restrictions.
No, what you're actually seeing is an F2P allowance, ie, they're letting you play a significant portion of the game for free. I guess your attitude determines your perspective - you think you're being ripped off despite not paying a cent, I see you being given very generous access to a game that's been subscription-only for thirteen years.
The only thing I see wrong with a limited-run RNG-determined cosmetic gift series for Christmas is that it breeds more entitlement in the form of more expectation of even more free stuff next year.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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PopeUrban
El Expedicion Flames of Exile
296
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Posted - 2016.12.15 01:34:50 -
[22] - Quote
I'm honestly not worried about it. CCP knows where their bread is buttered, and they know that alienating their existing userbase to court a more "mainstream" audience is not really a valid strategy for the platform and game they have developed.
I think the lockboxes, as tech, are used more deliberately in the NPC haulers and that's the sort of use we'll see them in. Either pop the can yourself, or sell it to gamblers. You could even use a key-and-lock system to make them a two-step affair, making the boxes more common among combat site loot (say... overseer's effects?) while the keys are special "decryptors" found primarily in data sites.
So you can sell the overseer's effects to DED like usual, OR you can attempt to decrypt it with a key bought/saved from a data site in an attempt to roll for more modules/bpcs from that officer's loot pool alongside maybe some special skins found only in that box. OR sell it on market for more than the DED price since it now has a potential premium value beyond the DED value to a buyer.
With the upcoming CONCORD faction ships this could be a valuable player choice. Hand it over to DED and you get flat predictable cash and LP, or sell it to a capsuleer/crack it yourself and get no LP but a potentially higher ISK reward at the risk of getting a potentially lower one due to RNG.
I'm not all that worried about CCP going down the road of RNG skin boxes as they've displayed a pretty good understanding that simply offering skins at a reasonable price in a game with over 300 hulls to skin, and developing tech that allows them to rapidly create 300 separate skin items for sale is a much better way to encourage people to buy skins.
CCP doesn't need to lean of cash box gambling because the EVE economy already effectively courts whales really well with the PLEX system and entropic economy. |
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1838
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Posted - 2016.12.15 01:47:17 -
[23] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:Please don't do it. Can think of no other reason why those strong boxes were introduced for this years gifts. It looks like a tech demo for unwanted things to come. Its cheap, tacky and copy cat. 13 years of EvE being something different, lets not fully depress that flush handle just yet. K?
Better get used to more stuff like this because this is where EVE is headed. And I'm not saying that as a bad thing. The subscription model is unsustainable and will have to be replaced by something else in the next few years if EVE is going to survive. It's really that simple.
Not sure if the locked box and key approach is the way to go or if that's even the plan, though. But as long as it's all for cosmetics I really couldn't give a rats ass.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1140
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Posted - 2016.12.15 02:24:30 -
[24] - Quote
If youd have been around long enough the f2p issue for Christmas gifts was NEVER a thing. In fact CCP has been giving away Christmas gifts for as long as I can remember and Ive been here since the beginning. All this doom and gloom when its a freaking Christmas gift like ALL the rest of the years is sad and pathetic. Grow up man!!
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
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Daemun Khanid
Calculated Miscalculation
671
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Posted - 2016.12.15 02:34:40 -
[25] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote: First we see f2p w restrictions.
No, what you're actually seeing is an F2P allowance, ie, they're letting you play a significant portion of the game for free. I guess your attitude determines your perspective - you think you're being ripped off despite not paying a cent, I see you being given very generous access to a game that's been subscription-only for thirteen years. The only thing I see wrong with a limited-run RNG-determined cosmetic gift series for Christmas is that it breeds more entitlement in the form of more expectation of even more free stuff next year.
Firstly, I'm guessing you failed to notice I'm an omega playing since 2003. Secondly. F2P w restrictions isn't a perspective, it's a fact. You are "allowed" to play with restrictions on sp, ships and skills. Another fine example of poor reading comprehension. Third and finally, the topic has absolutely nothing to do with the actual christmas gifts. Which btw are not even RNG and they come every year and have for many years so there's really not an expectation problem concerning "next year." Again, another fine example of reading poor reading comprehension.
Anyway, aside for those actually following the original point, I'm not so much worried that "EvE is dying" or that it will indeed end up looking like a cheap korean mmo. A little concerned that RNG boxes for sale on the EvE store would be a bit of a step on that slippery slope but mainly I just feel it cheapens the entire experience and is an immersion killer. It's one thing to get gifts every year (and even RNG gifts would be fine and perhaps even healthier for the market than mass gifts) but when you start selling gambling boxes it starts coming across as a desperate tactic to increase cash flow.
Obviously CCP have to have some income sources, playing an alpha might be free for the player but that doesn't pay the power bills nor the devs, however I think the skins, extractors and clothing items are enough as it is. Introducing RNG boxes that give random items that are already available through direct selective purchase (because putting ships, injectors and other such items from the in-game market would be a MASSIVE no-no) is a blatant method of taking advantage of human susceptibility to gambling addiction and the "thrill" of surprise. While this type of mechanic might be fine for ppl with reasonable impulse control who would probably seldom if ever waste money on the things, for others with potentially real and serious gambling issues I find it incredibly distasteful and beneath the kind of behaviour I would expect from CCP.
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Calculated Miscalculation
671
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Posted - 2016.12.15 02:42:40 -
[26] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote: If youd have been around long enough the f2p issue for Christmas gifts was NEVER a thing. In fact CCP has been giving away Christmas gifts for as long as I can remember and Ive been here since the beginning. All this doom and gloom when its a freaking Christmas gift like ALL the rest of the years is sad and pathetic. Grow up man!!
Another fine example of the point going cleanly over someone's head.
Daemun of Khanid
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1140
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Posted - 2016.12.15 05:13:27 -
[27] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:Eternus8lux8lucis wrote: If youd have been around long enough the f2p issue for Christmas gifts was NEVER a thing. In fact CCP has been giving away Christmas gifts for as long as I can remember and Ive been here since the beginning. All this doom and gloom when its a freaking Christmas gift like ALL the rest of the years is sad and pathetic. Grow up man!! Since the beginning huh? Tell me all about that. If ONLY I'd been around long enough to understand... Another fine example of the point going cleanly over someone's head. Your fear mongering and stating an opinion that may or may never occur. If you are a 03er than you should know that CCP has given out gifts in various NEW ways for years. Stop being so niave that it means THISISTHEEND!!OMGOMG!!!RUNFORTHEHILLS!!!
Come with some hard evidence or just stop posting like chicken little. Youre an 03er arent you?!!? Sly isnt falling unless we make it fall on noobs heads!!
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
8400
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Posted - 2016.12.15 05:21:04 -
[28] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote: First we see f2p w restrictions.
No, what you're actually seeing is an F2P allowance, ie, they're letting you play a significant portion of the game for free. I guess your attitude determines your perspective - you think you're being ripped off despite not paying a cent, I see you being given very generous access to a game that's been subscription-only for thirteen years. The only thing I see wrong with a limited-run RNG-determined cosmetic gift series for Christmas is that it breeds more entitlement in the form of more expectation of even more free stuff next year. Firstly, I'm guessing you failed to notice I'm an omega playing since 2003.
Oh hey, look guys, I've been here since 2003, that makes my opinion more valid than anyone else's.
I didn't fail to notice at all. I just don't care, and have no reason to believe you. For all I know, you bought that toon five minutes ago.
Quote:Secondly. F2P w restrictions isn't a perspective, it's a fact. You are "allowed" to play with restrictions on sp, ships and skills. Another fine example of poor reading comprehension.
No, my reading comprehension is fine. You see being given only a part of the game for free as a restriction, which is one very wrong perspective, and I pointed out that what you're actually getting is more than what you've paid for, which is a fact. Don't confuse my disagreement with your perspective as confusion of what you've said. I'm not confused at all, I just disagree. Oh no! Someone who disagrees with you! How is that possible?! It can't be, he must have reading comprehension problems. Nah mate, go **** yourself.
Quote:Third and finally, the topic has absolutely nothing to do with the actual christmas gifts. Which btw are not even RNG and they come every year and have for many years so there's really not an expectation problem concerning "next year." Again, another fine example of reading poor reading comprehension.
No, actually, again, my reading comprehension is just fine, and I'm saying the same thing to you as every other self-entitled brat that things they're owed something just because Christmas.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Daemun Khanid
Calculated Miscalculation
671
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Posted - 2016.12.15 07:57:06 -
[29] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote: Rant rant something rant rant
Your responses literally have no bearing what so ever on my actual comments. You seem to just be off on some angry rant about ppl wanting free stuff. Either you're not actually reading anything I said, have terrible reading comprehension or you are so blinded and seeing red by what you assumed a post about lockboxes would be about that you cant even think straight. Either way, I wont bother responding to your nerd rage again.
Daemun of Khanid
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Daemun Khanid
Calculated Miscalculation
671
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Posted - 2016.12.15 08:04:00 -
[30] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:Eternus8lux8lucis wrote: If youd have been around long enough the f2p issue for Christmas gifts was NEVER a thing. In fact CCP has been giving away Christmas gifts for as long as I can remember and Ive been here since the beginning. All this doom and gloom when its a freaking Christmas gift like ALL the rest of the years is sad and pathetic. Grow up man!! Since the beginning huh? Tell me all about that. If ONLY I'd been around long enough to understand... Another fine example of the point going cleanly over someone's head. Your fear mongering and stating an opinion that may or may never occur. If you are a 03er than you should know that CCP has given out gifts in various NEW ways for years. Stop being so niave that it means THISISTHEEND!!OMGOMG!!!RUNFORTHEHILLS!!! Come with some hard evidence or just stop posting like chicken little. Youre an 03er arent you?!!? Sly isnt falling unless we make it fall on noobs heads!!
If you're still talking about "gifts" you're still missing the point completely. Nothing I've said is fear mongering or eve is dying. The entire point is to discuss opinions regarding the potential for rmt lockboxes in the future. And just like the other guy, if you accuse me of "not being around long enough" then you can expect a response of "well actually I have." Dont make ignorant comments if the 2 of you cant handle being corrected.
Daemun of Khanid
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