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Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.04.09 13:42:00 - [1] To start off, I have to applaud the news article writers for making EVE more alive as a game world, and it shows. But I have to call notice on this particular news article. Why? Well it depicts something that in my opinion (just in case someone tries to troll this) is getting to a subject that is borderline not acceptable in a MMO: Child abuse and neglect. Sure that it adds to the atmosphere that EVE is something different, but that begs the question of how much "reality" can we take in what is essentially a game? We've all seen what horrors and maladies brought about that results in thousands (nay, millions) of children suffering (and still do). I'm just saying, is this right to bring in a sensitive RL topic into the gameworld without considering the consequences it may have upon player opinion about it? I mean, isnt it laying it on a bit too thick? - NPC Vendetta system, Local rehash, Probe decoys
Esurnir Amarr Bears Inc FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.09 13:46:00 - [2] This make the eve world more realistic. But that's an article I won't really read in the morning paper. And seemingly it won't affect me as much ooc than an article talking about the amarrian succession. ---- Quote: Thou shall pew pew. Book of Revelation 12, 51
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.04.09 13:52:00 - [3] true, its just disenheartening to read about the same crap you already get from CNN, only EVEified... Cmon guys, EVE is a game, not a reminder of the crap we already face IRL. - NPC Vendetta system, Local rehash, Probe decoys
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.04.09 13:54:00 - [4] I too raised an eyebrow at this. If it had some sort of reflection in an in-game event, or something, then that would be fair enough. But it just looks like it was copy and pasted out of some horror story in a magazine, distasteful and unnecessary. --- Originally by: CCP Sharkbait will explain when i have the time i promise
Estel Arador Minmatar AFK	Posted - 2007.04.09 14:08:00 - [5] I guess you're thinking "if it's not being reported, it's not happening"; frankly, that's wrong. Bad things happen in this universe and apparantly the Caldari treat their children worse than the Amarr treat their slaves (of course the slaves wouldn't be of much use if they're so weak they can't work). =AFK=
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.04.09 14:23:00 - [6] That people are reacting to this makes it a more important thing to bring into the gameworld IMO. Promotes discourse on a subject that doesn't get as much attention as it sometimes should here in the real world. The best stories are those which have something to say about our reality as well as the fictional one.
The Chauffeur Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.04.09 14:57:00 - [7] CCP, Please remove all content that players may deem offensive or innapropriate. The religious fundamentalism of the Amarr is highly offensive to my personal ethical code. Please remove them from the game. The fascist style government of the Caldari is a gross reminder of the horrors inflicted upon us by similar dictatorships in the 20th century. Please remove all Caldari themed content from the game. The backstory and even the appearance of many Minmatar characters is a brutal and sad parallel to the history of oppression and slavery that was unleashed upon the African continent for hundreds of years. This is obscene and the only remedy is to remove all Minmatar content immediately. The "French" origins and idealism espoused by the Gallente only serve to revive memories of how my ancestors were persecuted and repressed by French nationals. I'm not seeking reparations, but I think in the interests of fairness all Gallente items and characters should be removed as well. CCP, I urge you to act quickly on this initiative, lest you continue to offend some of the more culturally sensitive gamers out there. After all, when I'm using lasers and railguns to destroy ships filled with thousands of crew members, I don't want to be reminded that bad things happen to people in real life. Thank you for your consideration. .... EVE Online. Become An Hero.
Mademoiselle Anna	Posted - 2007.04.09 15:00:00 - [8] I also agree that news such as this add greatly to the immersion of EVE. It makes me feel that I'm a part of a ruthless world, where the weak and less fortunate are treated horribly (at least in Caldari space). If I may suggest a course of action for those who feel there should not be news such as this: do something about it. By that I mean, contact an AURORA member and ask if your they could make an event about you or your corporation helping those children in those creches. Then you can make a difference, here, in EVE online and perhaps then some others might take action to help people, both in EVE and in the real world.
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.04.09 15:00:00 - [9] Originally by: The Chauffeur stuff Thats fast, already being trolled. - NPC Vendetta system, Local rehash, Probe decoys
The Chauffeur Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.04.09 15:05:00 - [10] Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari Originally by: The Chauffeur stuff harbl you offered your opinion. i offered mine. it's just a game. .... EVE Online. Become An Hero.
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.04.09 15:07:00 - [11] Originally by: James Duar That people are reacting to this makes it a more important thing to bring into the gameworld IMO. Promotes discourse on a subject that doesn't get as much attention as it sometimes should here in the real world. The best stories are those which have something to say about our reality as well as the fictional one. Eve is not 'the real world'. The real world is 'the real world'. I am not going to be happy if a corporation starts questioning me on my real-life ethics before they let me in. Eve is really not the place for the discussion of topics like these, it's a game. Real life issues have no place here. If you have to say something, put it in Out Of Pod. --- Originally by: CCP Sharkbait will explain when i have the time i promise
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.04.09 15:08:00 - [12] Originally by: The Chauffeur Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari Originally by: The Chauffeur stuff harbl you offered your opinion. i offered mine. it's just a game. And is forcing the debate of child abuse and neglect an essential part of the game? And you didn't offer your opinion, you were sarcastic and trying to flame. --- Originally by: CCP Sharkbait will explain when i have the time i promise
Raivi Explosion Matrix	Posted - 2007.04.09 15:15:00 - [13] Edited by: Raivi on 09/04/2007 15:11:41 He was pointing out that this game is already full of references to real life tragedies, as are virtually all quality art forms. Saying that this is "just a game" is in my mind just like saying that something is "just a book" or "just a film". The multiplayer aspect of a gameworld such as this should serve to increase it's options for expression, not limit them. If you want a gameworld with less child abuse, donate some isk to the borderworld creches or start a protest to convince the Caldari State to increase funding. Explosion Matrix: Nostrum Nomen est Ridiculum
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.04.09 15:16:00 - [14] Luckily, the eve background doesn't already offer stories heavily spiked with vices like genocide, racism, terrorism on a mass-murder scale, election fraud, just to name a few. Seriously, what would be the problem of child abuse being a subject in a news story within Eve ? The game allows you to take a moral stance, it allows you to ignore it, it allows you to support these actions. The day this game forces the player to have the 'correct' morality, even when not actively engaged in interaction but passively engaged by background stories, is the day it stops being worth playing. [center] Old blog
The Chauffeur Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.04.09 15:36:00 - [15] Originally by: Marquis Dean And you didn't offer your opinion, you were sarcastic and trying to flame. i had hoped it would be self evident that my (unstated) opinion was that this was a crap post that doesn't belong here. troll, flame, bla bla bla. the game is what you make of it. if you don't like something in it, ignore it, write to the devs, or cancel your subscription. posting in these forums and then complaining about people who disagree with you and choose to make fun of you isn't going to solve the problem. .... EVE Online. Become An Hero.
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.09 15:47:00 - [16] i find ammo offensive, especially when shot at me ------ Relaxed corp recruiting
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.04.09 17:07:00 - [17] I find Jita local offensive, but I don't come to the forums and compl... Oh wait... --- Originally by: CCP Sharkbait will explain when i have the time i promise
Xenarin	Posted - 2007.04.09 21:28:00 - [18] Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari To start off, I have to applaud the news article writers for making EVE more alive as a game world, and it shows. But I have to call notice on this particular news article. Why? Well it depicts something that in my opinion (just in case someone tries to troll this) is getting to a subject that is borderline not acceptable in a MMO: Child abuse and neglect. Sure that it adds to the atmosphere that EVE is something different, but that begs the question of how much "reality" can we take in what is essentially a game? We've all seen what horrors and maladies brought about that results in thousands (nay, millions) of children suffering (and still do). I'm just saying, is this right to bring in a sensitive RL topic into the gameworld without considering the consequences it may have upon player opinion about it? I mean, isnt it laying it on a bit too thick? You need to read some RP, and accept that a full 'world' in an MMO is going to have things in it you don't like. We have religious zealots, massive drug cartels, over half a dozen major pirate/terrorist groups (not including the various player ones), blood-drinking cults, and so forth. Oh, and lets not forget about the enslavement of worlds(Minmatar and others), genocide in the form of planetary bombardments(Caldari Prime), and using a Doomsday device on a planet(Reshard). If you can't take the 'reality' of a fictional world, then ignore it. However the Caldari's less-than-friendly child-rearing programs, including the countless test-tube babies, which most Caldari are, is a part of their lives. They also love gambling and gladitorial sports.
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.04.09 21:52:00 - [19] New Eden is a dark and nasty place, hell before there was even talk of a merger I'd described it to a few people as World of Darkness in space. Bad things happen, life is cheap, the innocent suffer, nobody cares.... This is EVE!
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.04.09 21:54:00 - [20] It creates immersion, immersion improves games. I like reading about the universe we pretend to live in, even if its not pleasant news. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainfrane]
Benco97 Gallente Multiverse Corporation The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.04.09 21:59:00 - [21] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf New Eden is a dark and nasty place, hell before there was even talk of a merger I'd described it to a few people as World of Darkness in space. Bad things happen, life is cheap, the innocent suffer, nobody cares.... This is EVE! I wouldn't want it any other way to be honest. "MY GOD KEEP THIS AWAY FROM BENCO97!!!!!" - Constantine Arcanum
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.04.09 22:17:00 - [22] I want brothels, slaves, drug trafficers, ethnic cleansing and all other trimmings or else the universe wouldn't feel believable. No prancing ponnies and re-writes for those who cannot handle the nature of man. Also Known As
Karunel Princeps Corp YouWhat	Posted - 2007.04.09 22:30:00 - [23] If anything we need way more news and stories of all kinds, not less. Originally by: elbenito The problem with large fleet engagements is that the hamsters stop to watch.
Radcjk Caldari Team Machine Incorporated	Posted - 2007.04.09 22:44:00 - [24] Coming from other games i play this is pretty light really. That said I find it amusing that a game portraying pirates, theft, betrayal, warfare, and murder of random pilots who happen to get caught off guard in the wrong place and wrong time is all acceptable.... mention abused children and suddenly thats too serious. Please, seriously folk... stop podding pilots and we wont have abused orphans
JForce Black Lance NBSI Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.10 00:29:00 - [25] I bet they put A DAMN ! AT THE END OF THE NEWS ARTICLE AS WELL. WHY!!?? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY111?!!???? Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Dulsung	Posted - 2007.04.10 11:54:00 - [26] Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari I mean, isnt it laying it on a bit too thick? Yup, I'd say your post was laying it on a bit too thick. EVE's universe isn't a happy jolly summertime fun place. It's a dirty, gritty, unfair, depressing, dangerous, deadly and traumatizing world. How that's not evident to you by now is surprising. The thing is, people like this game and this universe that way. This isn't a shiny happy Hello Kitty Online Island Adventure game, it's a harsh slap in the face where even the CarebearsÖ carry guns. So please just ignore the fiction behind the game if it makes you uncomfortable. The rest of us don't want an oversensitive few neutering the game universe in the name of not offending people please. Let the authors have free reign in this wonderful universe CCP and White Wolf are creating rather than try to make it all soft and harmless so as not to offend overly-delicate sensibilities.
Kylar Renpurs	Posted - 2007.04.10 12:05:00 - [27] I've got plenty of friends who've died from drug abuse, and the representation of 'combat boosters' as a good thing, considering the portrayal of these boosters in the game as 'illegal drugs' could be considered sensitive, but it's not. Heck, lets remove Amarr because they portray religious groups as being centric around slavery. All i'm saying is that saying it's a bit too close to home is also a bit out-of-sight, out-of-mind about many other issues eve touches on. If EVE were released as a non-offensive game we'd play non-denominational characters with a ! for a portrait constantly, and there'd be one faction. Personally i think this is good for the game, it adds depth and realism that MMO's are all about. On a side note, anyone played Fallout? Some of the reps you could get in that were a little worse than that topic.
Bekka Jae Gallente The Drop Outs	Posted - 2007.04.10 13:01:00 - [28] To me, with its rich and continually evolving backstory, playing Eve is a lot like being a character in a (usually) well-written epic science fiction saga. One thing that definitely separates Eve from the rest of the pack as a game is the hardness of the world and the steep price of death and other negative in-game occurrences. It is precisely for this reason that not only isn't a story about child neglect inappropriate for the Eve backstory, it's probably the only game I've ever played in which such a story fits in perfectly with this world and its already-established history. New Eden is actually neither new, nor, as anyone's who's played for any length of time knows, anything that can realistically be compared to what is classically thought of when one thinks of "Eden". This, of course, is a good thing. If it were all sweetness, light, and positively-oriented, it would be for me, and I'd bet for a lot of you, crushingly boring. It is the negativity, the conflict, the lust for power, the political maneuvering, the disagreements that turn into violence, the constant threat of pirates (and the infestation of the vermin who are really just griefers posing as pirates), and the risk of losing it all in just a few unfortunate seconds that make this game, for all its completely fantastical elements, in some ways probably the single most realistic MMOG out there. Given all that, I not only think this story was a great idea, but I hope to see more like it. The big, important, wide-ranging, staggeringly-implicating, mondo-importante storylines can only offer part of the story. As historian of any culture or era will tell you, it isn't these kinds of tales that will tell the true story of a people, but rather the everyday stories of the people and how they lived that will truly reveal the heart of a culture. The truth is rarely, if ever, to be found in the stories of kings and presidents, but rather in the stories of the working-class, average citizens, and of those living below the poverty line. That's where the heart of any culture truly is, and where tales describing the true heart of the culture of New Eden must take place if they are to have the kind of real-life corollary we've come to expect from this game. It's also important to remember (though I know some of us spend so much time in-game we may forget now and then), that this is fiction. No children are actually being mistreated here. If we can read and watch fictional stories about murder, torture, or other heinous crimes in books and on television, this should really be no different. The only question or qualification that should be considered here is: Is it entertaining and well-written? My Eve Blog: Just a Girl and Her Battlecruiser http://justagirlandherthorax.blogspot.com
Rudina Gallente The Hirogens	Posted - 2007.04.10 13:37:00 - [29] It seems some explanation is required. I do understand your concerns about emotional stories like these, but there is a certain scope and character where these stories are warranted. Most of the posters here d not follow the RP side of EVE, so there are bound to be some misunderstandings. The current date in Eve is 20,000 years in the future. Earth had its problems, and people moved out, colonised the Milky Way. They entered this universe through the Eve gate and the 4 major world powers set about colonising. Eve gate was closed from the other side, cutting Eve universe off from Earth. Eve races had a chance to reform and rebuild, which they did with technology and mechanics. However the soul never changed. There was no growth to better themselves, instead the Eve universe turned to anarchy and lawlessness. In many ways the EVE residents are still the same humans from Earth with all their sociological and psychological shortfalls. We could rid ourselves of the body and advance biologically and technically, but we never did psychologically. Therefore in many ways the same problems that plagued Earth will resurface, and much worse. Besides the above, Eve is heading for a full scale war. All these events are leading to a path of destruction, where racial, ethnic, and zonal wars will happen. Events like this story brings out certain elements and serve to open up avenues to extend the story plot. I do not want to give the game play away any more than I have done already. Please read up on backstory on this website, and follow the events. It is quite interesting even if you do not Role Play. In future please try to ask the relevance of the story, rather than shouting at CCP to remove content. Many of us with an interest in the Eve Story will be glad to explain.
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.04.10 13:49:00 - [30] Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari To start off, I have to applaud the news article writers for making EVE more alive as a game world, and it shows. But I have to call notice on this particular news article. Why? Well it depicts something that in my opinion (just in case someone tries to troll this) is getting to a subject that is borderline not acceptable in a MMO: Child abuse and neglect. Sure that it adds to the atmosphere that EVE is something different, but that begs the question of how much "reality" can we take in what is essentially a game? We've all seen what horrors and maladies brought about that results in thousands (nay, millions) of children suffering (and still do). I'm just saying, is this right to bring in a sensitive RL topic into the gameworld without considering the consequences it may have upon player opinion about it? I mean, isnt it laying it on a bit too thick? Whassamatta, you go cry to mommy because the bad CCP people hurted your feelings? Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Timmeh ([email protected])
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.04.10 15:00:00 - [31] Quote: We've all seen what horrors and maladies brought about that results in thousands (nay, millions) of children suffering Oh well then obviously the civilized solution is to completely avoid these topics and never discuss them at all. Otherwise people might notice, and then where would we be!? - - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - "We need to invent a new Clue Super Weapon... Something that distributes clue on a never before seen level." -Cpt Psycho
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.04.10 15:00:00 - [32] Quote: We've all seen what horrors and maladies brought about that results in thousands (nay, millions) of children suffering Oh well then obviously the civilized solution is to completely avoid these topics and never discuss them at all. Otherwise people might notice, and then where would we be!? - - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - "We need to invent a new Clue Super Weapon... Something that distributes clue on a never before seen level." -Cpt Psycho
Kasak Black The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.04.10 15:05:00 - [33] Oh great, the PC Brigade have arrived. Best start calling PVP Combat "Person Verses Person of differing values orientated weapons fire actions"
Kasak Black The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.04.10 15:05:00 - [34] Oh great, the PC Brigade have arrived. Best start calling PVP Combat "Person Verses Person of differing values orientated weapons fire actions"
Leneerra Minmatar Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.10 15:24:00 - [35] So where did you think all those crew members you never have to feed or pay come from? They are raised in conditions similar to what they can expect later in life. Now in all honesty. As a story it fits eve, It deepens it and I think it is even needed. All races within eve need something that makes them hero's as well as villans. A reason to unify those defending them, and a reason for others to fight them. That is how they add an RP element to the factional warfare that is coming. A reason for you to get off your ass and do something. Set something up, interact, complain, Fight the state, save them, whatever. If beside deepening your gaming experience this also makes you think about some of the bad things that happen outside of the game. Then maby you can take the realization that you can do something about it out of the game and into real life. It simply does not sound like a bad thing to me.
Trilori Caldari Gearbox Fleet Svc	Posted - 2007.04.10 15:57:00 - [36] Originally by: Estel Arador I guess you're thinking "if it's not being reported, it's not happening"; frankly, that's wrong. Bad things happen in this universe and apparantly the Caldari treat their children worse than the Amarr treat their slaves (of course the slaves wouldn't be of much use if they're so weak they can't work). This is one lame comment, the story doesn't relate to ANYTHING that actually happened ingame. Why do we need stories about something that never happened? Your "if its not being reported, its not happening" theory doesn't hold up too well. It never happened, it shouldn't have been reported. Children getting raised worse than amarrian slaves is just a "storyline" of the game it is NOT part of the EVE news.. if you guys want news like this GO MAKE an RPing news section for that kind of stuff.
Kun Kan Minmatar Unitas Nusquam Est FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2007.04.10 17:01:00 - [37] Gotta say when you say this had nothing to do with anything that happened in game, uh, last night some SoE chick came on the minmatar chat and asked for help and relief supplies to be brought in. I and along with several others went out and grabbed our haulers and loaded up with medical supplies and food and went to help out with the relief effort. It didn't give me an in-game reward.. in fact the ebil Privateers blew my hauler to bits... but I had fun playing my part in this little drama and a lot of supplies did get through. It was fun and gave a little RP of trying to be a good guy.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.04.10 17:17:00 - [38] You are in a game universe that openly states empires with slavery and religion based segregation (ammar) and ethnic cleasing (sansha nation), adiction of childs by drugs ( serpentis)... wars.. with massive bombardments of worlds and slaughtering of civilizations. This topic you bring is no where more special than those, and as a fictional art form its completely valid. Denying the existance of a concept do not make the concept less evil when applied in rteal life. So the OP must stop and think what really deserves this type of attention. Would be much better for you to ask your congressman (of whatever country youa re in) to help the childreen that don have food in certain africa regions.... and stop dramatizing on a artistic job that is Eve storyline. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Marketcheck2	Posted - 2007.04.10 17:43:00 - [39] I'm more surprised people read those snippets at all. As far as I can tell they haven't meant anything IN game for the year + I've been playing.
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2007.04.10 18:20:00 - [40] Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 10/04/2007 18:17:33 Maybe they need to write more articles about liberals and political correctness. I bet a bil that 95% of the naysayers in this thread will errupt in cries of pain and channel their frustration into long whiney rants in General discussion.
Kyoi	Posted - 2007.04.10 18:29:00 - [41] Oh dear this thread has to be one of the worst on EVE-O and that is saying a lot, reality is everywhere beleive it or not films are not just "films" games are not just "games" there will always be elements of reality in them, Im afraid you are just going to have to learn to accept it.

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