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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
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CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
399
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Posted - 2016.12.15 16:20:53 -
[1] - Quote
Hey folks,
Team Psycho Sisters here with some questions.
1.Do you use custom probe formations when scanning?
2.What formation do you use? Provide pictures if possible
3.Why do you use a custom formation over the default spread or pinpoint formations?
4.Do you use custom formations for combat scanning, exploration or both?
We are asking because we would like to deal with the current state the scanning system is in where we have 2 systems and 1 is kind of in beta but not really but both systems have pros and cons and we are seeing about 50% usage across both of them.
Going off the feedback thread created by the CSM and the above reasons we have started taking a look at what needs to be done to address the primary player concerns, but we are also coming across areas of the feature that we do not have data on player usage such as, custom formations.
Please try and keep this focused on custom formations. We have gathered the other feedback from forums and other sources, but there are some gray areas we would like some more information from you all on.
So just custom formations for now, as required we will make new threads for other specific areas.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Team Psycho Sisters.
Quality Assurance Analyst
Team Psycho Sisters
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
3165
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Posted - 2016.12.15 16:36:03 -
[2] - Quote
Yes, I was using custom formations for faster results while I was not max skilled for all kind of sigs. The formation contains 4 narrow probes and 4 wide probes, pinpoint like but in a plane, 4xformation centered, overlapping and 2 steps apart (e.g. 2AU+8AU, or 4AU+16AU). Today I'm just lazy and use pinpoint 95% of the time (except Thera).
BTW: I'm not using the beta because: lack of probe handling accuracy (speed of probing), performance. Both are showstoppers and not some inconvenience.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
735
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Posted - 2016.12.15 16:41:41 -
[3] - Quote
Disclaimer: I rarely probe. But I do have one custom formation I have used. A perfect cube - when I am really sure of something's approximate location, I cube it to get a really tight formation on the target. Again, I rarely probe, but I feel like this formation in certain instances gives me a better sensor strength on target than the normal "focused" premade formation. Whether or not it actually makes a difference, *shrug*.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
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Satchel Darkmatter
Massive Dynamic inc.
Care Factor
32
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Posted - 2016.12.15 16:47:02 -
[4] - Quote
not tested this will assume it does not work, but on earth we only need 2 GPS satalites to get a rough location based on their area of influence and its overlap, with 3 your getting an accurate reading within a few meters and with more you can get it down to inches.
I think the probes here should work the same way, to get max scan on a sig should only require 4 probes in a 3 sided pyramid shape, this would allow good players to actually scan down multiple signatures at the same time speeding things up, as it stands now there is almost zero need to use anything other than pinpoint and then use the shortcut to narrow the scan where needed.
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Orakkus
m3 Corp
Evictus.
296
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Posted - 2016.12.15 16:56:14 -
[5] - Quote
I'm a pretty active explorer, so I'll give my feedback (and feel free to look at my skillset too).
1. Do you use custom probe formations when scanning?
- Yes, but only for Standard and Superior Sleeper Sites at my skill level.
2. What formation do you use?
- I use a sort of cross formation (which has six probes in very close proximity, but not equal distance from a center probe on the X, Y, and Z axis), with the eighth probe that is offset and lower than the center probe. That seems to work best so far.
3. I typically use the pinpoint formation that is provided. I only use my custom Close-up configuration when the pinpoint resolution at 0.25 AU isn't strong enough to resolve it.
4. I primarily use mine for exploration.
He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
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FearlessLittleToaster
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
159
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Posted - 2016.12.15 17:24:02 -
[6] - Quote
Full-time explorer with perfect skills here. I just use pinpoint for all PvE content; with a properly fit and rigged Buzzard it's more than adequate for any site.
For combat probing I do sometimes use spread. It gives a snapshot that can be helpful for finding people in safespots and such. However, for the most part I just use pinpoint there too; player behavior is predictable enough that I can usually get it done faster that way. |
Svara Eir
Hotline K162
The Clown Car
28
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Posted - 2016.12.15 17:55:15 -
[7] - Quote
These days I probe probably around 150-400 wspace systems a week between all characters that use / live in wspace, usually with multiple characters scanning different parts of chains at once.
1. Use custom formations?
Pinpoint/Spread are all right in themselves given that we can Ctrl-scale. I've messed around with different formations for fun, but there is only one I've found that works a lot better than the defaults for important use cases.
2. What formations?
The formation I find useful involves taking the top and bottom probes of the Pinpoint formation and bringing them both into the same plane as the others (i.e. they inhabit the centre), except with one of these two centre probes being one smaller resolution than all the rest. It's a little wider than Pinpoint but you adjust this with Ctrl+scaling as per your needs.
3. Why?
The use case this formation deals with the best is putting the formation at 0 on a celestial with multiple signatures around it, which lets me do banding so I can pre-select for things I may or may not want (for example, 99% of the time I'm just looking for WHs and don't really care about the rest). It doesn't matter if a formation is geometrically "superior" if it can't also offer you the option of creative ways to selectively isolate depending on your needs; this is where customs are useful and arguably necessary.
Here is an example image of this custom formation in use. If you are having a hard time discerning what is happening in the image then maybe that helps demonstrate the if-it-ain't-broke-don't-fix-it UI problems that were just dumped on players for over a year with zero iteration, breaking the experience of probing to the point of torturous eyestrain at times, all in the name of 'an updated look'. That's the most important conversation to have in terms of probing UI/UX changes, but you did ask us to stay on topic, so...
4. Customs in Combat or Explo?
This is going to be a bit blunt but if you need custom formations for combat probing you're doing it way wrong |
Circumstantial Evidence
368
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Posted - 2016.12.15 18:23:38 -
[8] - Quote
It was stated in the dev blog announcing probe formations, that the default formations were good, but not the most optimal configurations. A typical game design decision leaving room for player skill. That inevitably lead to min/max players experimenting with custom formations of probes, attempting to get the best possible result. If CCP wishes to end debate and give players the most optimal pinpoint formation, that would eliminate the one custom formation I use most often. |
Scotsman Howard
S0utherN Comfort
Test Alliance Please Ignore
167
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Posted - 2016.12.15 20:44:08 -
[9] - Quote
I have probed extensively in the past for exploration sites and wh mapping. My combat probing experience is limited to once or two. The main issue with scanning is the interface and not the probe positioning.
As for you seeing usage of 50/50 between the two systems, I would be curious to see how this breakout works if you look at players who were around before the beta was introduced and after. My guess is you would see a heavy weight toward the beta map for newer players (because it is defaulted to it) and toward the old version for older players.
Custom Probe Position:
I never have needed to use a preset custom position. I have been able to find all sites by using the current ones and making slight adjustments. Before I got better skills, I would need to manually move one or two probes to get superior sleeper sites, but in the end everything was scanable easily.
Scanning Systems (old vs new/beta versions)
Below are the reasons the beta system is not being used by me or a few others I fly with:
1. To much "noise". It is hard to see anything given the color of the probes and interface. The beta version looks very nice, but it has reduced the clarify of scanning (and thus speed). The beta version is even harder to move individual probes as well.
2. Ease of use. The interface is slower in the new version. It is harder to see (as stated above). Moving probes and even the camera itself is much harder to do in the beta version.
3. The integration with the galaxy map in general. The old version was simple: switch between the views of the system or galaxy. The new system causes you to need to scroll in or out which is slower and no where near accurate enough. The system requirements of the new map do not help at all. Yes, one client on a decent computer has no problem, but once you get a couple of accounts logged in, an internet browser up with dotlan and other sites, comms, etc. The beta version of the map and scanning interface is not responsive enough.
TLDR: The problem with probing is not custom positioning but the interface. The old version does not look pretty but it is superior due to how quickly things can be done. Beta version looks great but suffer in performance.
Clarifications: Yes, I have tried using the new interface for several weeks both in null and wormhole space (as did others in my corp), so we have experience with the new system. We even did tests where we had several people start at one end of a pipe and start scanning. Half used the beta system and half the old system. The old system was faster in all but one case due to low skills (we assumed due to he was the newest guy with the least expereince). |
Erutor
sint mercatores omnes
1
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Posted - 2016.12.15 21:17:37 -
[10] - Quote
Full time explorer, part time wormhole pirate, but don't tell Rixx Javix I said pirate, because I'm not -10.0.
tl;dr - provide us with a more optimal pinpoint, and I'll never use custom again.
1.Do you use custom probe formations when scanning?
Yes, but only when I have to. Making custom formations isn't really fun, it's just something I do once, save, and use when necessary.
2.What formation do you use? Provide pictures if possible
- I use default pinpoint exclusively when exploration scanning on a well-skilled character, or when combat scanning after narrowing down the probable target using d-scan.
- I use default spread for initial combat scanning when performing drone rescue operations or looking for opportunities to ninja salvage.
- I use a cube (not too small, not too large... had to fiddle with it to find the right size and diminishing returns on making it smaller).
3.Why do you use a custom formation over the default spread or pinpoint formations?
I can't get a 100% hit on small signature targets when I have a default formation and lower skills, even if I know where the sig is and am just testing different formations, perfectly placed.
4.Do you use custom formations for combat scanning, exploration or both?
I only use a custom (cube) when the cube will resolve something that pinpoint will not resolve. This is typically for drone rescue, but also for ghost sites when on a character with less-excellent skills, or in a ship with less-than-excellent bonuses. |
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Delegate
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
150
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Posted - 2016.12.15 22:31:12 -
[11] - Quote
Scanning wormhole chains with an alt. Scanning for about an hour at a time, but sometimes longer. About 143 probe strength with a day-to-day gear.
CCP Claymore wrote:Hey folks,
Team Psycho Sisters here with some questions.
1.Do you use custom probe formations when scanning?
Yes, almost exclusively.
CCP Claymore wrote:Hey folks,
2.What formation do you use? Provide pictures if possible
4x4 formation: 4 probes at 2au in corners of a 1au rectangle + 4 probes at 8au in corners of a 4au rectangle. Will resize if needed.
CCP Claymore wrote:Hey folks,
3.Why do you use a custom formation over the default spread or pinpoint formations?
Signatures are clustered (around celestials). With this formation I can pinpoint signatures with the small radius probes and get secondary hits (for subsequent scannig) with the large radius probes.
CCP Claymore wrote:Hey folks,
4.Do you use custom formations for combat scanning, exploration or both?
In combat scanning I use pinpoint when I have a good idea where the target is. Otherwise custom. |
biz Antollare
The Scope
Gallente Federation
145
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Posted - 2016.12.15 23:16:25 -
[12] - Quote
Just never remove the old probe system and everything is fine.
you can scrap the new one. |
Gurney Hallack
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
0
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Posted - 2016.12.16 01:27:39 -
[13] - Quote
Yes, a Cube formation. I save them at 4 different aus for quick change. with lvl 3 skills I can scan anything in 5 cycles. Im not willing to share what it exactly looks like. I did leave out a detail. BUT YES YES YES to custom formation. |
Borat Guereen
Chao3
Chao3 Alliance
79
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Posted - 2016.12.16 07:58:29 -
[14] - Quote
I am scanning very regularly, one character with perfect skills and another with levels being a mix of 3 and 4.
With my perfect skill character the default formation are working fine, spread for large sweep, pinpoint for exact localization, usualy down two sizes at a time to get to the location in two to four scans.
With my less skilled character, I can scan relic sites like temples with the pinpoint (one size down at a time), but for crystal quarry sites, the pinpoint is not enough to get 100%. I usualy use control on the arrows from the pinpoint to get all the probes closer to the last 80-90% scan and get to 100% that way.
I have tried custom formations but reverted to the process above.
Candidate for CSM XII
Check our Minarchist Space Project!
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
615
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Posted - 2016.12.16 09:36:10 -
[15] - Quote
100% explorer here.
Ad. 1 I'm using custom formation when starting to scan a singnature. Then alt or crtl mousewheeling if necessary;
Ad. 2 More spread pinpointed 8AU formation for start, rest as above;
Ad. 3 Spread formation is spreaded too much, while pinpoint is too narrow to catch signature bubble on 8 AU for example;
Ad. 4 I don't do combat probing but if I do I would use custom formation a lot, less time the probes are in space more chances I would catch my prey.
I have max scanning skills, using scanning implants. Usually flying ships with bonuses to scanning. If not I'm using pinpoint formation for scanning to 100% (last scan usually).
Make the thread about merging old and new map. This is the top issiue here, not formations.
"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
- Cooper what are you doing?
- Docking!
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Saturn Sabezan
Slags
69
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Posted - 2016.12.16 09:39:07 -
[16] - Quote
I just use pinpoint. It works.
The new scanning system still sucks. It's pretty, but most of it is unnecessary and clunky. Many people have been saying this. The old system is simple and works perfectly well. Change for changes sake if you ask me, and not for the better. |
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CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
400
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Posted - 2016.12.16 10:19:56 -
[17] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Yes, I was using custom formations for faster results while I was not max skilled for all kind of sigs. The formation contains 4 narrow probes and 4 wide probes, pinpoint like but in a plane, 4xformation centered, overlapping and 2 steps apart (e.g. 2AU+8AU, or 4AU+16AU). Today I'm just lazy and use pinpoint 95% of the time (except Thera).
BTW: I'm not using the beta because: lack of probe handling accuracy (speed of probing), performance. Both are showstoppers and not some inconvenience.
Interesting, will take a look.
So how do you change the size of the probes in this example?
Quality Assurance Analyst
Team Psycho Sisters
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CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
400
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Posted - 2016.12.16 10:24:07 -
[18] - Quote
Khan Wrenth wrote:Disclaimer: I rarely probe. But I do have one custom formation I have used. A perfect cube - when I am really sure of something's approximate location, I cube it to get a really tight formation on the target. Again, I rarely probe, but I feel like this formation in certain instances gives me a better sensor strength on target than the normal "pinpoint" premade formation. Whether or not it actually makes a difference, *shrug*.
Edit: sorry forgot to answer the last question. That's mainly for combat scanning. The normal "pinpoint formation is perfectly adequate for scanning sigs in my experience. But I haven't tried the hard stuff out in nullsec and all that fun jazz.
Thanks for the reply, I will take a look.
Quality Assurance Analyst
Team Psycho Sisters
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CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
400
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Posted - 2016.12.16 10:25:08 -
[19] - Quote
Satchel Darkmatter wrote:not tested this will assume it does not work, but on earth we only need 2 GPS satalites to get a rough location based on their area of influence and its overlap, with 3 your getting an accurate reading within a few meters and with more you can get it down to inches.
I think the probes here should work the same way, to get max scan on a sig should only require 4 probes in a 3 sided pyramid shape, this would allow good players to actually scan down multiple signatures at the same time speeding things up, as it stands now there is almost zero need to use anything other than pinpoint and then use the shortcut to narrow the scan where needed.
We are not looking to change the fundamentals of scanning at this point in time. So the underlying system will not be changing.
Quality Assurance Analyst
Team Psycho Sisters
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light heaven
JUST SET TIMES
Fraternity.
8
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Posted - 2016.12.16 10:51:34 -
[20] - Quote
1.Do you use custom probe formations when scanning?
Pinpoint are used for most, but I do use a custom formations when It is hard to scan.
2.What formation do you use? Provide pictures if possible
See pic http://imgur.com/a/RblNF, just pull Spread formation closer, you will get it.
3.Why do you use a custom formation over the default spread or pinpoint formations?
For referenc, my scan char has full scan skills, full mid-virtue set, AQ-710 and AR-810. Which means my combat probe's base sensor strength is about 100 point. It is enough to scan combat ships, but is still hard to scan the old off grid booster T3s. I usually set start to scan target by Pinpoint formation and scan range is 8 au or 16 au. Move probe near target and use smaller scan range. I always got 100% after 2 or 3 analyze. When scan range is 0.5 AU and results is larger than 90%, I will use custom formation to scan. It always result 100% to me. In my experience custom formation could always get better result than Pinpoint formation when target is at same horizon.
4.Do you use custom formations for combat scanning, exploration or both?
I only use custom formations for combat scanning. Cause my core probe's base sensor strength is about 200 point which is very easy to scan all cosmic signals. |
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Kagi Anzomi
Best Kept Frozen.
1
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Posted - 2016.12.16 11:22:23 -
[21] - Quote
1. I use the standard formations most of the time, I'd say 94% pinpoint, 5% spread, and 1% custom.
2. The few times the defaults aren't good enough, I normally only need to move the probes inward a bit from the pinpoint formation. Occasionally I'll drag probes to weird places to cover a certain set of planets for combat scanning, but that varies by system.
3. I only use a different formation when I don't have quite enough probe strength to get 100% with pinpoint, or when spread doesn't adequately cover parts of a system.
4. Primarily combat scanning. I can find most signatures with a pinpoint scan at shortest range, but ships tend to be trickier. In some systems I need clumps of probes on different celestials to see where someone is warping. After finding someone, certain ships like bastioned marauders can be nearly impossible get at 100%, so I occasionally have to bring probes closer together for those.
One other thing worth mentioning is that while I've never intentionally saved a custom formation, I have accidentally clicked the button many times, thinking it was button to launch a pinpoint formation. |
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CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
402
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Posted - 2016.12.16 11:39:23 -
[22] - Quote
light heaven wrote:1.Do you use custom probe formations when scanning? Pinpoint are used for most, but I do use a custom formations when It is hard to scan. 2.What formation do you use? Provide pictures if possible See pic http://imgur.com/a/RblNF, just pull Spread formation closer, you will get it. 3.Why do you use a custom formation over the default spread or pinpoint formations? For referenc, my scan char has full scan skills, full mid-virtue set, AQ-710 and AR-810. Which means my combat probe's base sensor strength is about 100 point. It is enough to scan combat ships, but is still hard to scan the old off grid booster T3s. I usually set start to scan target by Pinpoint formation and scan range is 8 au or 16 au. Move probe near target and use smaller scan range. I always got 100% after 2 or 3 analyze. When scan range is 0.5 AU and results is larger than 90%, I will use custom formation to scan. It always result 100% to me. In my experience custom formation could always get better result than Pinpoint formation when target is at same horizon. 4.Do you use custom formations for combat scanning, exploration or both? I only use custom formations for combat scanning. Cause my core probe's base sensor strength is about 200 point which is very easy to scan all cosmic signals.
Your picture does not appear to work :( but I get what you mean.
Quality Assurance Analyst
Team Psycho Sisters
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CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
402
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Posted - 2016.12.16 11:45:55 -
[23] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:light heaven wrote:1.Do you use custom probe formations when scanning? Pinpoint are used for most, but I do use a custom formations when It is hard to scan. 2.What formation do you use? Provide pictures if possible See pic http://imgur.com/a/RblNF, just pull Spread formation closer, you will get it. 3.Why do you use a custom formation over the default spread or pinpoint formations? For referenc, my scan char has full scan skills, full mid-virtue set, AQ-710 and AR-810. Which means my combat probe's base sensor strength is about 100 point. It is enough to scan combat ships, but is still hard to scan the old off grid booster T3s. I usually set start to scan target by Pinpoint formation and scan range is 8 au or 16 au. Move probe near target and use smaller scan range. I always got 100% after 2 or 3 analyze. When scan range is 0.5 AU and results is larger than 90%, I will use custom formation to scan. It always result 100% to me. In my experience custom formation could always get better result than Pinpoint formation when target is at same horizon. 4.Do you use custom formations for combat scanning, exploration or both? I only use custom formations for combat scanning. Cause my core probe's base sensor strength is about 200 point which is very easy to scan all cosmic signals. Your picture does not appear to work :( but I get what you mean.
Ah I see, there is a comma at the end of the link, I got it now.
Quality Assurance Analyst
Team Psycho Sisters
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
3165
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Posted - 2016.12.16 13:28:42 -
[24] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Yes, I was using custom formations for faster results while I was not max skilled for all kind of sigs. The formation contains 4 narrow probes and 4 wide probes, pinpoint like but in a plane, 4xformation centered, overlapping and 2 steps apart (e.g. 2AU+8AU, or 4AU+16AU). Today I'm just lazy and use pinpoint 95% of the time (except Thera).
BTW: I'm not using the beta because: lack of probe handling accuracy (speed of probing), performance. Both are showstoppers and not some inconvenience. Interesting, will take a look. So how do you change the size of the probes in this example?
Resizing the whole formation like with the standard ones, So I start with the 4AU+16AU (the actual saved preset), then resize to 2+8, and so on down (or skip one step).
I'm my own NPC alt.
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CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
402
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Posted - 2016.12.16 13:40:04 -
[25] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:CCP Claymore wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Yes, I was using custom formations for faster results while I was not max skilled for all kind of sigs. The formation contains 4 narrow probes and 4 wide probes, pinpoint like but in a plane, 4xformation centered, overlapping and 2 steps apart (e.g. 2AU+8AU, or 4AU+16AU). Today I'm just lazy and use pinpoint 95% of the time (except Thera).
BTW: I'm not using the beta because: lack of probe handling accuracy (speed of probing), performance. Both are showstoppers and not some inconvenience. Interesting, will take a look. So how do you change the size of the probes in this example? Resizing the whole formation like with the standard ones, So I start with the 4AU+16AU (the actual saved preset), then resize to 2+8, and so on down (or skip one step).
But when you are setting up initially, how would you do it? Through the probes in the scanner window, or in the system map?
Quality Assurance Analyst
Team Psycho Sisters
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Rivr Luzade
Kenshin.
DARKNESS.
2869
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Posted - 2016.12.16 14:14:56 -
[26] - Quote
1. Kind of. I start every scanning with a modified Pinpoint formation. 8 AU instead of 16, because the big radius is useless in most scenarios outside of combat probing. Spread formation is pointless in my opinion because you do not need to scout a system any longer to see if there are signatures in the first place.
2. To start off a 8 AU Pinpoint. Depending in signature or ship difficulty, I draw that pinpoint closer together, in some cases so close that the handles appear to be 1 probe.
3. Because they are necessary. In particular Sleeper Caches require the 3 dimensional placement of probes placed accurately around their signature to be able to scan them. Variations of pinpoint also allow for quick coverage of surroundings of celestials and oftentimes near immediate narrowing down the signature to a dot instead of just a smaller sphere.
4. Custom pinpoint as described above for all scanning scenarios.
By the way, why is this thread not mentioned in the Launcher? I just learned about if from the weekly news by chance. This kind of feedback thread should be put into the launcher's news scroll or at least the notification bubble so that more people become aware of it.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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MuraSaki Siki
Es and Whizz
Hedonistic Imperative
67
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Posted - 2016.12.16 14:21:44 -
[27] - Quote
1.Do you use custom probe formations when scanning?
only for exploration, as i havent been combat role
2.What formation do you use? Provide pictures if possible
http://i.imgur.com/qPOkTdg.png
a octahedrone with 6 probe at vertexes, and the 7th probe is placed at the centre with reduced size
(for example, 6 vertex probe 4AU, 7th at centre 2AU)
3.Why do you use a custom formation over the default spread or pinpoint formations?
i have probed since 2014, before the odyssey patches, and i used to using my own formation
coz the centre probe give a better result, and the 6 vertex probe still covering the scanning area.
4.Do you use custom formations for combat scanning, exploration or both?
exploration |
Soldarius
O C C U P Y
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1548
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Posted - 2016.12.16 15:45:22 -
[28] - Quote
I use a single custom formation of 6 probes in an octahedral formation for everything.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
Together We Solo
319
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Posted - 2016.12.16 18:56:23 -
[29] - Quote
I use a custom formation that is a 'tighter' version of the standard pinpoint formation to hit some of the sleeper sigs. |
darkezero
doughboys
Escalating Entropy
35
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Posted - 2016.12.16 19:23:13 -
[30] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:
1.Do you use custom probe formations when scanning?
2.What formation do you use? Provide pictures if possible
3.Why do you use a custom formation over the default spread or pinpoint formations?
4.Do you use custom formations for combat scanning, exploration or both?
1. Usually, no. I have custom formations for combat probing, and even that is used sparsely.
2. I have two, and it depends on the situation. the first is a flat (on the z-axis)octagon. the second is a cube with only a slight overlap in the center.
3. Searching for people who have deep safes (cube), and keeping the probes out of d-scan range (octagon). for the Octagon, both defaults have two probes in the center that adjust on the z-axis instead of the x and y-axes, which may put them in range of d-scan of the target . The Octagon seeks to start the search for the target without the probes being on d-scan. The Cube seeks to cover as large a volume of space as possible, usually outside the outermost planet, and well outside of d-scan of any celestials.
4. Combat. |
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Circumstantial Evidence
368
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Posted - 2016.12.16 19:25:47 -
[31] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:But when you are setting up initially, how would you do it? Through the probes in the scanner window, or in the system map? Just a point of personal feedback on the UI in question: I see the scanner window as a list of information about probe status, and if you wanted to remove the option to resize probes from the scanner window, I wouldn't miss it. Clicking on probe edges in the system map works best for me. Its not clear which probe in the scanner list is connected to which probe in the system map.
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Cade Windstalker
636
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Posted - 2016.12.16 19:29:13 -
[32] - Quote
Can't currently respond with useful information right now, but could you sticky this thread so it's easier to find? I nearly missed it doing my morning check of the forums because it looked like an old thread someone had necro'd. |
James Duadoulin
modro
Swords of Damocles
2
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Posted - 2016.12.16 22:34:42 -
[33] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Hey folks,
Team Psycho Sisters here with some questions.
1.Do you use custom probe formations when scanning?
2.What formation do you use? Provide pictures if possible
3.Why do you use a custom formation over the default spread or pinpoint formations?
4.Do you use custom formations for combat scanning, exploration or both?
We are asking because we would like to deal with the current state the scanning system is in where we have 2 systems and 1 is kind of in beta but not really but both systems have pros and cons and we are seeing about 50% usage across both of them.
Going off the feedback thread created by the CSM and the above reasons we have started taking a look at what needs to be done to address the primary player concerns, but we are also coming across areas of the feature that we do not have data on player usage such as, custom formations.
Please try and keep this focused on custom formations. We have gathered the other feedback from forums and other sources, but there are some gray areas we would like some more information from you all on.
So just custom formations for now, as required we will make new threads for other specific areas.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Team Psycho Sisters.
I love the new scanner interface even if it is only for the use of the short cut keys. they make things so much faster and smoother.
1. I have skills level 4 haven't maxed out pinpointing and time skills yet. I only ever use a custom formation for sleeper sites. typically at my skill level I can get them just by using control+mousewheel to tighten the formation up. and that is all I do to get them. of course if I were not scanning in a bonused ship with scanning rigs and virtue implants then I would have to do that more often.
so my custom formation to get sleeper sites is just an ever tightening ball of probes.
3 the only reason I do that is to up scan strength.
4 only explorer scanning I never combat scan much.
I think the current new scanning system is fine. but if you wanted to add in the ability to make your own custom formations and save it I'm sure some players would use it.
I think the thing that makes the most difference in scanning time for me (once you get max or nearly max skills) is the short cuts.
I typically can do a k-space system in 3-5 minutes depending on the number or sigs.
I never get in a hurry when I'm exploring unless someone is in local and I see probes out.
The other day a guy who was blue to me entered system at the same time as me and we both put out probes. I was already in the first relic site and half way done with it before he even warped in.
that's been my experience YMMV |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
3165
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Posted - 2016.12.17 08:03:56 -
[34] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:CCP Claymore wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Yes, I was using custom formations for faster results while I was not max skilled for all kind of sigs. The formation contains 4 narrow probes and 4 wide probes, pinpoint like but in a plane, 4xformation centered, overlapping and 2 steps apart (e.g. 2AU+8AU, or 4AU+16AU). Today I'm just lazy and use pinpoint 95% of the time (except Thera).
BTW: I'm not using the beta because: lack of probe handling accuracy (speed of probing), performance. Both are showstoppers and not some inconvenience. Interesting, will take a look. So how do you change the size of the probes in this example? Resizing the whole formation like with the standard ones, So I start with the 4AU+16AU (the actual saved preset), then resize to 2+8, and so on down (or skip one step). But when you are setting up initially, how would you do it? Through the probes in the scanner window, or in the system map?
What I did the first time iirc, I started the pinpoint formation with system map on fullscreen (I don't use the new scan interface, nor the new map), then set the size of the probes individually within the probe window (4 at 4AU + 4 at 16AU) and dragged them into position with mouse+keyboard in the map until satisfied, then saved this formation for further use. When scanning, I use the button to launch the custom formation, and the rest is mouse+keyboard like with the inbuilt formations. Does this answer your question?
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
682
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Posted - 2016.12.17 16:35:27 -
[35] - Quote
Yes, I use an extremely tightly collected custom formation for signatures I cannot 100% at 0.25 AU.
While you're at it, can you make Pinpoint the default formation?
You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
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Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
436
|
Posted - 2016.12.19 04:06:46 -
[36] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:While you're at it, can you make Pinpoint the default formation?
I rarely use the spread formation. Having the pinpoint as default would be very helpful.
I am a bit lazy in my scanning so I don't use custom formations. However, if I had a custom formation set up, adding it as a personal preset would be nice. Being able to share it, as with overview settings, would be doubly nice.
As an aside: the map icons for signatures really need to be brighter - beta needs the same brightness as in the traditional map.
Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.
Support better localization for the Japanese Community.
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Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University
Ivy League
313
|
Posted - 2016.12.19 15:12:46 -
[37] - Quote
Wormhole dweller here.
First, I have to say that you'll have to pry the old map+scanner out of my cold, dead hands. I just can't stand the new ones. Although I apreciate that you try hard to improve them. I supose there's no evil in having both, and let everybody decide which one they like best.
Regarding custom probe formations... I just use the pin-point default one but with a range of 8 AU to begin with the scanning, then change to the premade pinpoint one and keep reducing the range. |
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
Hookers N' Blow
21
|
Posted - 2016.12.19 20:59:43 -
[38] - Quote
It would be nice to be able to centre the probes around celestial with a right click centre.
I get when you are trying to probe down a site, there is no central large object so you should have to move them around yourself.
But say for example the SUN. (or a gate or a planet) Like come on we should be able to center the probes with a click or two around large celestials or indestructible objects, if its big enough to be on the map without probing it down we should be able to center around it with a click. If we can right click warp to it, why not center.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions
O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1530
|
Posted - 2016.12.20 01:43:13 -
[39] - Quote
My first formation for probing the system I am in is always 8AU pinpoint and then down in size and for combat probing I first use the 16AU spread, then go back to pinpoint.
I saw the new map once and found the off button an hour later, sorry.
Eve Minions is recruiting.
This is the law of ship progression!
Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
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Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
502
|
Posted - 2016.12.20 11:52:20 -
[40] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Hey folks,
Team Psycho Sisters here with some questions.
1.Do you use custom probe formations when scanning?
2.What formation do you use? Provide pictures if possible
3.Why do you use a custom formation over the default spread or pinpoint formations?
4.Do you use custom formations for combat scanning, exploration or both?
We are asking because we would like to deal with the current state the scanning system is in where we have 2 systems and 1 is kind of in beta but not really but both systems have pros and cons and we are seeing about 50% usage across both of them.
Going off the feedback thread created by the CSM and the above reasons we have started taking a look at what needs to be done to address the primary player concerns, but we are also coming across areas of the feature that we do not have data on player usage such as, custom formations.
Please try and keep this focused on custom formations. We have gathered the other feedback from forums and other sources, but there are some gray areas we would like some more information from you all on.
So just custom formations for now, as required we will make new threads for other specific areas.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Team Psycho Sisters.
1. Yes, but I only have like 1-2 I use over and over again. Sometimes I still use the default options, though.
2. They're like the default options, just with some probes moved or AU-range adjusted for my comfort.
3. Comfort. (Sometimes I still use the defaults!)
4. Both. |
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Rain6637
NulzSec
34589
|
Posted - 2016.12.21 19:43:52 -
[41] - Quote
I use the poinpoint formation. I'd love a snap-to behavior that centers the probe formation on something I select, either a line item in the scan results or an icon on the map.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Aurora Athonille
Athonille Logistics and Provisions
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.21 21:09:10 -
[42] - Quote
Reading this thread I find myself wondering if anyone else is using the Alt key + mouse wheel to control the scanning radius of their probes...
As for the question at hand, I have just used the default pinpoint formation since it was introduced. I did other things before, but never bothered to build my own custom formation since then. Guess I'm just too lazy. I probably should at least try it out and come back with more constructive comments.
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2995
|
Posted - 2016.12.21 23:10:11 -
[43] - Quote
Before probe formations were introduced, I would always scan with just 4 probes arranged in a diagonally-canted horizontal square (aka diamond) formation. The only advantage to using more probes seems to be when you're not sure of the target's location. At lower skills, it's especially tricky to determine where the object is, but with a bit of deductive reasoning combined with an understanding of how the probe results work, one can determine how to move the probes such that the location is hit by all 4 probes, thus giving a maximum accuracy result and allowing you to scan at a lower radius.
I feel that the built-in formations should be adequate yet sub-optimal. There should be some (small) benefit to a player who manipulates the probes manually, which should be especially important to characters with lower skillpoints in scanning skills.
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
Hookers N' Blow
22
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Posted - 2016.12.22 13:48:40 -
[44] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:I use the poinpoint formation. I'd love a snap-to behavior that centers the probe formation on something I select, either a line item in the scan results or an icon on the map.
Was saying the same thing. We dont need to make it overly easy, but for large warpable objects we should be able to do this.
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2995
|
Posted - 2016.12.22 14:39:27 -
[45] - Quote
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues wrote:Rain6637 wrote:I use the poinpoint formation. I'd love a snap-to behavior that centers the probe formation on something I select, either a line item in the scan results or an icon on the map. Was saying the same thing. We dont need to make it overly easy, but for large warpable objects we should be able to do this.
Howabout a center control arrow-box that is simply connected to your formation and can be moved to move all your probes at once?
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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Geronimo McVain
EVE University
Ivy League
266
|
Posted - 2016.12.22 18:24:05 -
[46] - Quote
When you are upgrading the probe system could you introduce a new rig "SD card reader" where you can safe scan results. Even if the results are saved locally for 6h it would be a big improvement. |
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
Hookers N' Blow
22
|
Posted - 2016.12.23 14:00:58 -
[47] - Quote
edit: removed misunderstood a post. |
Eldeni
Kurwidolek Eldeniego
0
|
Posted - 2016.12.30 12:29:36 -
[48] - Quote
Hi, im WH dweller for over 5 years and a scanner:
95% i use pinpoint, 4% spread, 1% custom - with custom is just the pinpoint but more narrow if one of my alts cant scan to 100%, sometimes i use cube or anyother just for fun and expermineting. I never use custom in combat scanning, too much time it is needed, custom only in exploration.
About the new and the old - i use old. Tried several times the new, but its slower than the old one. I need less shinny and more useful tool. From what i know from my former copr scanners where using only the old system. Saddly WH life is slowly deing.
Fly safe |
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CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
403
|
Posted - 2017.01.02 10:45:22 -
[49] - Quote
Hey folks,
Thanks for all the feedback so far, just catching up on it all now after some Christmas vacation.
Quality Assurance Analyst
Team Psycho Sisters
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uhnboy ghost
retard hills
85
|
Posted - 2017.01.02 23:28:43 -
[50] - Quote
1. Do you use custom probe formations when scanning?
for almoste all combat sites i use the pinpoint but for combatprobing hard to scan ships and mtus and the the superior sleeper cache data site i use a custom "cube" to get the last 2%
2. What formation do you use? Provide pictures if possible
http://i.imgur.com/EKKF3KT.png the "cube" i use
3. Why do you use a custom formation over the default spread or pinpoint formations?
to get the last 1-5% on realy hard to hit sites/ships, but the standard ccp made pinpoint is realy good from the start
4. Do you use custom formations for combat scanning, exploration or both?
see 1.
on a side note, i scan ALOT everyday and still use the old probe window etc in the new one i just cant see anything, BUT the new d-scan is amasing so i have tryed to force my self to use it but its so hard to see what sig you scanning etc, whit the small lines and not all of the sig filled up like the old one, and having to use the new map whit the new scan window.
so i always give up and go back to the old one
//uhnboy 84K probe scans in 2014 http://i.imgur.com/Uaid5iu.png
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
2802
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Posted - 2017.01.03 14:42:23 -
[51] - Quote
I use pinpoint formation for almost everything, custom formation to nail down particularly hard scans. If I need to cover a wider area to establish a rough position, I'll just use a larger pinpoint formation instead of a spread formation.
I've found that EvE is far too three dimensional to justify using a two dimensional scan pattern.
Suggestion: rename pinpoint formation to something along the lines of "spherical formation". It would still be descriptive and it wouldn't imply that it isn't effective at broad volume searches.
Relatively Notorious By Association
My Many Misadventures
I predicted FAUXs
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
3011
|
Posted - 2017.01.03 16:44:32 -
[52] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:I use pinpoint formation for almost everything, custom formation to nail down particularly hard scans. If I need to cover a wider area to establish a rough position, I'll just use a larger pinpoint formation instead of a spread formation.
Same here. I avoid spread formation not because I don't spread my probes out, but because the spread formation just isn't a very good formation. One of the ways I ever use a custom formation is to make a custom spread formation, which is a bit flatter than pinpoint but mostly just overlapping less.
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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Danbert
Running with Dogs
Stella Nova
8
|
Posted - 2017.01.03 20:00:01 -
[53] - Quote
1.Yes
2.Super tight Pin Point formation.
3.Gives a slight improvment on scan strength, sometimes required to get that last few % on a difficult sig.
4.Usually only when exploring. |
Soltys
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
173
|
Posted - 2017.01.04 01:42:19 -
[54] - Quote
I use cube custom formation with two presets as far as sphere distances and sizes go (though I scan rarely these days). Other than that I change range/distances on the fly as needed
I once experimented (shortly) with 2 tertahedrons to do 2 signatures at the same time but .... that was one giant PITA, as the interface is not exactly friendly towards treating them as 2 separate groups. The idea behind it was to use the scan-strength-power-creep for something useful but .... yea.
That brings me to ....
.... not that a custom formation is that much different in practice from predefined formations - sadly the whole scanning "game" has been rather dumbed down since the initial introduction, mixed with aforementioned power-creep boosting on top of everything - so you can handle any signature with nearly anything with main difference being like what - one more step ?
TBH, would be nice to go [back] to no-predefined formations / skills determine amount of probes times.
On a related not, can we please get damn checkbox to turn off damn, irritating, frustrating and now pointless bubble grabbing; as we have have 3 - three ! - other ways to do so) ? For crying out loud, you had good thing going for a moment on SiSi.
Same goes for few other suggestions that were diligently ignored when the threads about probe maps were active.
Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl & Kuvl
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Nuhrp
The Ascended Refugees
1
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Posted - 2017.01.06 01:22:47 -
[55] - Quote
Hello.
I am an extensive user and use custom formations. Related suggestion.
Choosing from the menu of what to see on the new map is difficult; believe it ro not - too many unused choices in my opinion. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
3011
|
Posted - 2017.01.06 04:04:10 -
[56] - Quote
I have an idea: remove the two default probe formations, put in a basic mediocre formation that lazy people can go to, and allow players to create and save their own probe formations for future use, and allow sharing of probe formation setups.
Don't bother making a good formation for us. Let us make them for ourselves. That's the kind of game this is.
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
405
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Posted - 2017.01.06 11:32:55 -
[57] - Quote
Hey folks,
Thanks for all the feedback.
Your replies have been great and really interesting to see how people use them. Going to close this thread now as I think we have enough information.
Quality Assurance Analyst
Team Psycho Sisters
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