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Poorly Designed Mission... Attack of the Drones...

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Dahak2150 Chaos Monkeys	Posted - 2007.04.09 19:50:00 - [31] Edited by: Dahak2150 on 09/04/2007 19:48:22 There are level 3 missions with scramblers, and you cannot seriously be telling me that you've never encountered any yet. I consider this thread a fine example of autodarwination. I also, for one, quite enjoy this mission. You have to be careful about your targets or things turn pear shaped really fast. Plus the introduction of new species of Rogue Drone BSs and the entirely-new-to-me RD tin cans was a nice little rush of adrenaline. ---------------- If you're on IE, pretend this is transparent while you get a browser that supports .png.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.09 19:51:00 - [32] Originally by: FalconHawk Wtf is that? what you have thought? LV4 missions are freaking easy, fill the wallet and there is no way the NPCs will kill your ship? Sorry for your loss, but hey would a game where u loose nothing be pretty boring? Not to mention that i consider your "overwhelming odds" as tiny little drone battleships ... you whine cause there was no "BE CAREFUL YOU CAN LOOSE YOUR SHIP" sign in the mission description and you blame CCP that you have lost your ship? risk vs reward, pls go back to 1.0 veldspat mining (god i¦m a semi carebaer myself, but that was way too much, sorry for the rant) Quite an impressively vicious flame, that. Kudos --------
Kritinana	Posted - 2007.04.09 19:53:00 - [33] Originally by: Brutor Shaun Edited by: Brutor Shaun on 09/04/2007 18:58:30 At least no-one has whined that this should be in the missions forum yet! Edit - On the first page of missions forum <whine>Why isn't this post in missions forum?</whine> there, problem solved. Normally i'd point you to the famed eveinfo.com amongst other places. However, since gathering information outside of game is against your principles, which is fine, you simply have to live and learn. There are a ton of things in eve that are lacking in description. Many of us presume that this is because ccp doesn't want to 'hold your hand' through everything. A recent example is the many players who've spent their fortunes discovering the ins and outs of 'invention'. These people had to figure it out theselves. CCP did not release documentation on patch day saying 'these are the things you need for invention and this is how you do it', and they didn't purposefully. In summary, if you're unwilling to communicate with other players via. external media or otherwise, you must simply figure it out yourself. That's the way the game is intended to be, and I'm sorry to say it's not going to be changed just because you and / or a few other people don't like it.
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.04.09 19:59:00 - [34] You think that's bad? I didn't know Gguardian belt frigates (serpentis "T2" rats with uber resists and bigger bounties) warp scrammed. Did I whine when one of them held me down long enough for a hostile to come in and take over that scramming? No, I learned. I also learned much earlier before that rats can scram overall (L3 drone mission, L2 COSMOS mission is when I learned this). So, wah wah, enjoy your new ship. Also, those "metagaming" sites are created by, SURPRISE, the players! They're hubs of information, not unlike corp chat/alliance chat/newbie help (the last of which I'm certain you're familiar with intimately by now). Use them. Or, Heaven forbid, play with others. Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY Down with alts! One character per account per IP!
FalconHawk Amarr Falcon Advanced Industries	Posted - 2007.04.09 20:01:00 - [35] Originally by: Sirri No. Ass. I'd like some hint that I'll be facing a form of attack I had never previously faced against before. No player can always prepare for every contingency out there. Allow me to reiterate... I shouldn't have to CHEAT in order to survive the mission. Use a shuttle ffs .... and what u call cheat other call "use your brain"
Amateratsu Caldari Terra Incognita Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.04.09 20:21:00 - [36] 1st time i got this mission i blindly killed the initial spawn and got all 5 waves inc 10 drone battleships pounding on me O.o Fortunately i was able to warp out, else i would have been boned as an above poster put it I've learned from experience to spot the warp scrambling effect set my drones on the scramblers as soon as i see it. But for those who don't know the faint blue pulsing effect is not easy to spot especially when the scrambling ships are orbiting you at a rate of knots. The first thing i do with any new mission im not familiar with is check Mission Info and see what i will be up against, what damage to tank, what ships scramble ect. will save you a lot of heartache personally i think attack of the drones is a great new mission providing loads of mins from the refined alloys.
Sebastien LeReparteur Minmatar SpaceTravelers Freelance Corp	Posted - 2007.04.09 20:54:00 - [37] Lol I do missions run and I am sure I lost more in there then you have up to now. 1 st Agents are dumb... 2 nd Eve is a NOT an RPG, it is a MMO. Metagaming agent mission!!!! when there is a big total 16 to 20 missions and they are so repetitive you should not consider this RPG please! Also missions are know to be time sink not ISK sources unless you know how to do them. You think any of us as used fully fitted T2 BS like this in any missions without checking dmg type 1st? Serious? ----------- It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by will alone...
Benco97 Gallente Multiverse Corporation The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.04.09 21:03:00 - [38] Edited by: Benco97 on 09/04/2007 21:00:59 Ehh.. I find it hard to believe that someone could have started doing missions, climbed all the way to level 4's and never have been warp scrambled before despite having done lots level 4 missions before this incident. I don't know what's going on here but the OP should know it's their fault, not poor game design. "MY GOD KEEP THIS AWAY FROM BENCO97!!!!!" - Constantine Arcanum
Mr Friendly	Posted - 2007.04.09 21:03:00 - [39] Originally by: Sirri Edited by: Sirri on 09/04/2007 18:50:19 Originally by: Dark Shikari Quote: For the first time in the entire game I encountered NPCs that warp scramble. (It never even hinted at this in the mission info) Wait, you got all the way to level 4 missions without encountering warp scrambling NPCs?! Correct. I had only previously been WS by PCs. So far as I knew NPCs did not WS. Even then it's not the issue that I was WS that I'm irritated with. For example, many peopl ave effectively told me to metagame. i.e. Read up on missions before you do them. If you need to "cheat" (And that's essentielly what metagaming is) in order to stand a chance in a mission the mission is poorly designed. I read my mission text before I go into a mission for that very reason. err... Lol? So, asking in a help channel if Rancer is still camped is metagaming? Asking in the help channels if a brand new mission is stupidly hard is cheating? I'd say you missed out on a major feature of any MMO... OTHER PEOPLE EXIST! I did this mission totally blind AND I aggroed every spawn at the same time because I stupidly killed all the spawn npc's... and I lived. I did this because I set up my ship to withstand just about anything my vast experience as a lvl4 mission runner told me I MIGHT expect. As for your complaint that you didn't know npc's warp scrambled... either you are being disingenious, or you have no business doing level 4's. In short... don't jump in ignorant and then complain you didn't know what was lurking on the other side of the gate, and ASK OTHER PEOPLE WHAT THEY THINK. (or go play an offline game)
Dal Thrax Caldari Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2007.04.09 21:11:00 - [40] Originally by: Dark Shikari Quote: For the first time in the entire game I encountered NPCs that warp scramble. (It never even hinted at this in the mission info) Wait, you got all the way to level 4 missions without encountering warp scrambling NPCs?! I think it was only belt and complex rats that scramble not mission rats. Then again what do I know I hate missions and am only doing them to try to get a jump clone. Dal Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed. delaying startup again. soon as i have time i will fill you in on the details
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.04.09 21:15:00 - [41] Originally by: Dal Thrax Originally by: Dark Shikari Quote: For the first time in the entire game I encountered NPCs that warp scramble. (It never even hinted at this in the mission info) Wait, you got all the way to level 4 missions without encountering warp scrambling NPCs?! I think it was only belt and complex rats that scramble not mission rats. Then again what do I know I hate missions and am only doing them to try to get a jump clone. Dal Once upon a time in this game it seemed like every single npc frigate you saw in the game regardless of location would warp scramble you... --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Ralara Caldari Lilandri Foundation	Posted - 2007.04.09 21:16:00 - [42] Originally by: Sirri So, it's a level IV mission. I'm in my souped up Raven. I get my mission info, a little cryptic but okay. No big deal. I commence with the mission. It's a drone mission. I start picking off the drones. Which are swaming in rapidly. No big deal, I'll warp out clean up. Come back. I do so. And I come back. Except shortly after warping in I try to warp back out (and we're talking seconds here...) Except... no. Not going to happen. For the first time in the entire game I encountered NPCs that warp scramble. (It never even hinted at this in the mission info) Now, here's my beef. I never had a chance. Literally. Once I was warp scrambled and the Drones started to pile in... that was that. I was picking off the drones left and right trying to find the one that was srambling me. Trying like mad to escape. No go. So... I'm placed in a situation against overwhelming odds with no feasible means of escape. Effectively it was "We're going to give you a mission and you're going to die". Now, had I been biting off more than I could chew... I'd understand. If I had been getting pummelled left and right and terrified in other IV missions... ya, it'd be deserved. But it went from "difficult" to "You're going to die and you really have no option here except the blind luck of hitting the right drone that's warp scrambling you". That's poor game design. I don't mind a challenge. Not at all. I've lost ships before (this one is insured) in good fights. That's not what happened here. Now seeing as how the Eve Forums are more like the WoW forums than most would care to admit... many people are going to respond with the whole boohoo ZEARN 2 PLY NWB!! bit. Save it. In the hundreds upon hundreds of previous missions I've faced I've never required warp field stabilization. Not once. In the mission text it did not suggest I needed it. So far as I knew, NPCs didn't even DO that. However... let's say they spring it on me. Alright, fine. Don't spring it on me in a situation that, without blind luck, results in my destruction. Make it a flavoring. Not a death sentence. Literally, I started off at full and killed drone after drone hoping to find the one that was scrambling me... but with no luck. I was hit up with THAT many drones at one time. Again, it's poor game design. Oh my. Well firstly, it's not really that difficult. Secondly, kill the drones that are scrambling you (its not that hard, even with torpedos, you can kill them). Thirdly: Wrong forum, this should be in the Missions forum. Fourthly: Oh my. I'm a corp thief. And remember, I only do it because I like your robot.
Neon Genesis Gallente The Landed Gentry	Posted - 2007.04.09 21:27:00 - [43] The game isn't going to spoonfeed you. Lesson learned, no-one agrees with you, get a new ship, move on.
Maxpie Split Infinity	Posted - 2007.04.09 21:28:00 - [44] While it is common knowledge that some rats scramble, I do agree with the op on 2 points. 1. There should be a better means of knowing when you are scrambled and by whom. 2. We should be given a little more info in the missions. Like most other people, I look the missions up on third-party websites, but should it really be necessary? I'm not saying the agent should tell us everything (how many frigs, how many cruisers, what loot drops, etc.) that the outside websites provide, but give us a bit more in terms of useful information and I would be much happier and not need to look the missions up, spoiling some of the fun.
Gamesguy Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.04.09 21:30:00 - [45] Sirri do you ever stop complaining? First you want magical teleporters that transfer your ore from your hold into the hanger, now you complain about dying cause you never knew NPCs could scramble, how the **** you got to L4 missions w/o encountering a single scrambling frig is beyond me. I smell ebay.
Ralara Caldari Lilandri Foundation	Posted - 2007.04.09 21:30:00 - [46] Originally by: Gamesguy Sirri do you ever stop complaining? First you want magical teleporters that transfer your ore from your hold into the hanger, now you complain about dying cause you never knew NPCs could scramble, how the **** you got to L4 missions w/o encountering a single scrambling frig is beyond me. I smell ebay. o/ :) check SB, not been a post for 10 days on the thread! I'm a corp thief. And remember, I only do it because I like your robot.
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2007.04.09 21:36:00 - [47] It's those smal poiny drones that scramble you. Cant remember their names but you can usually kil them easy with smartbomb. But you had no smartbomb did you because you like to use autopilot setup right, no way you would bother adjusting fittings according to missions? -------------------- '\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/' Cant we all just get along?
Ralara Caldari Lilandri Foundation	Posted - 2007.04.09 21:39:00 - [48] Originally by: Godar Marak no way you would bother adjusting fittings according to missions? cos that would mean looking at out of game things, like, I dunno, websites and stuff, or writing down what rats do what damage / .. stuff. And that's "cheating". Oh leave him to it. If he quits over it, so much the better for the rest of us :) I'm a corp thief. And remember, I only do it because I like your robot.
Ash Vincetti Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.04.09 21:39:00 - [49] Originally by: Sirri Quote: Do you want your mission brief to tell you the spawn order, what ammo to use, what to tank, etc.? Read up prior to a mission, or learn by your mistakes. You chose the latter. No. Ass. I'd like some hint that I'll be facing a form of attack I had never previously faced against before. No player can always prepare for every contingency out there. Allow me to reiterate... I shouldn't have to CHEAT in order to survive the mission. If you "Refuse to metagame" by only reading the mission text, then you should pretty much expect that you will be facing a form of attack you have never previously faced against before. In fact, you should go ahead and decline all missions you have "Already done", since doing them again is "Metagaming" by repeating previously completed content. (The same way that you call reading a battle report from the same agent mission "metagaming"). In fact, you are asking CCP to metagame for you by asking them to add hints in the mission description that you would face electronic warfare, WS, etc, since technically, the reason you are being sent to do the mission is because your agent does not know what's in there. ----- /ash :: sig goes here ::
Glassback M. Corp M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.04.09 22:02:00 - [50] Hold on, you made a post here and didnt expect to get flamed? G. I've got an idea--an idea so smart that my head would explode if I even began to know what I'm talking about.
Dopefish Amarr Quad and Fish	Posted - 2007.04.09 22:21:00 - [51] Missions are not designed to be fun, they are an alternative to npc farming or mining. Missions are designed to kill you. This is the risk part of missions and it is higher than its 0.0 equivalents because the player element is nonexistant. Missions are horrible game design when looked at alone, but put in context they serve a purpose.
Shadowsword Kermit Space Industies	Posted - 2007.04.09 22:33:00 - [52] First, this mission is perfectly doable without even knowning anything about it. Paying attention is enough to understand that each npc from the initial wave is a trigger for reinforcments, after you popped the second one and got two reinforcment waves. Second, reading mission guides is metagaming? Lol Third, being rude with people when they point out your shortcomings will earn you a ban shortly. You started a completely new mission, thinking it was like every other. You failed to learn from your previous missions that drones with "strain" in their name, tended to close in at 850+ m/s, and as such were probably the NPC equivalent of tacklers. You probably never even tried to understand how NPC names were structured. You refused out of idiotic principles to gather a modicum of intel on the mission beforehand. Now learn from your mistakes, and stop whining. ------------------------------------------ A big nuke may be nice in a strategy game, but something like this in a game where every unit is a player, and each death costly, is insane.
Jex Jast Go for the booty	Posted - 2007.04.09 23:45:00 - [53] Originally by: Sirri Originally by: Jex Jast You know Sirri you seem to be a big complainer. Whine about customer service, whine about a mission being too hard, whine about mining not being fun enough. I guess your best bet is to become a pirate. Then you get the excitement that mining doesn't bring, the variability of your "missions" so you can't say there's some issue with one of them, and no customer service because you can't claim you lost your ship to "lag" as mission runners can. Well, this game has a tendency to seriously ** me off. So, it's either gripe about it here or go shoot the neighbor kid. Since I like staying out of prison more than I like you the neighbor kid is safe and you get to read my griping posts. However... might I point out you intentionally read a post by me... and then proceeded to gripe about it.. let us dwell on the delicious irony of your intellectual masochism. Or... "I'll whine about your whining". This is laughable. I like that whenever I point out someone's whining, they come back at me with this generic response. "Hah you're whining about my whining IRONY TEHN00BZOR!" Actually I'm laughing at you. Sorry to burst your ego bubble. And if this game has such a tendency to ** you off, why keep playing? It's clearly not the game for you if you keep asking for it to be changed (which it won't). And shooting the neighbor kid would be very impolite. But I see no relevance to Eve. If that or whining are the only two ways you can manage your anger, you're in for some serious trouble down the line. One more thing I'm obliged to ask: Can I have your stuff? -----
Trem Sinval Sinval Enterprises	Posted - 2007.04.10 00:04:00 - [54] Originally by: Sirri Metagaming is cheating. Going outside of the game to gather information on the game is cheating. Please edit all of your posts to remove the metagaming information you have unwittingly spewed onto the (incorrect) forums. No one wants to hear about a mission's difficulty, enemies encountered, or methods for completion (all things you've put into your FIRST post here). Then, please stop using the forums completely. If you have issues with obtaining information on these forums or on other sites, I suggest you not use them. You will encounter the information as any other player without access to them would, by doing and failing the mission (repeatedly, if necessary). - Trem
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.04.10 00:40:00 - [55] Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 10/04/2007 00:40:59 Originally by: Sirri For example, many peopl ave effectively told me to metagame. i.e. Read up on missions before you do them. If you need to "cheat" (And that's essentielly what metagaming is) in order to stand a chance in a mission the mission is poorly designed. Is it cheating if you ask a corpmate who has done the mission, what to expect? Is it cheating to ask another player not in your corp, but who has done the mission, what to expect? If the answer to those questions is "No" then why is it suddenly cheating if one of those players posts what he knows on a website, so he doesn't have to answer every mission newbie personally? Is that what you want? A personal mission consultant? I offer my services in-game for a 40% cut of rewards, loot, and salvage. I will give you all the personal mission consulting you could want for that sum. Any missions where you use my advice and still lose your ship will get you a refund of any up-front fees. Sound good? Originally by: Sirri Further, I've done more than a few IVs and this is the first one where I got WS'd. Incorrect. If you've gotten to level 4 missions, then you've been warp scrambled unawares many times before, but it never caused you a problem until now. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Darina Rea Renua Foundation	Posted - 2007.04.10 00:49:00 - [56] To the OP: The first time I encountered warp scrambling NPCs was in a level 2 mission. Yes, level 2. I got out alive and ok because I simply outran the NPCs, yay me. (cruisers go alot faster then battleships however). If you know that NPCs use the same modules as PCs, guns, MWDs, target jammers, distruptors and what not, it's not unthinkable that they also use warp scramblers. You got toasted because you encountered something new (to you). Probably not the first time, and hopefully won't be the last time. Here's a few counters for you: Fit a WCS Be prepared to kill everything in one go Pay attention to NPC names and kill the nasty one first Make your ship outrun the NPCs Sure, being upset about losing a Raven is understandable, but calling it 'poor game design' when you lose one is incorrect. Indeed, every group of NPCs should have atleast 1 'tackler' ship. Heck, even belt rats should have them... They should be a mandatory part of NPC groups, not a 'once in a lifetime'. _________ The cluster is full of mysteries, all that is needed is the will to find and unravel them. Time is on our side.

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