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Poorly Designed Mission... Attack of the Drones...

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Sirri	Posted - 2007.04.09 18:25:00 - [1] So, it's a level IV mission. I'm in my souped up Raven. I get my mission info, a little cryptic but okay. No big deal. I commence with the mission. It's a drone mission. I start picking off the drones. Which are swaming in rapidly. No big deal, I'll warp out clean up. Come back. I do so. And I come back. Except shortly after warping in I try to warp back out (and we're talking seconds here...) Except... no. Not going to happen. For the first time in the entire game I encountered NPCs that warp scramble. (It never even hinted at this in the mission info) Now, here's my beef. I never had a chance. Literally. Once I was warp scrambled and the Drones started to pile in... that was that. I was picking off the drones left and right trying to find the one that was srambling me. Trying like mad to escape. No go. So... I'm placed in a situation against overwhelming odds with no feasible means of escape. Effectively it was "We're going to give you a mission and you're going to die". Now, had I been biting off more than I could chew... I'd understand. If I had been getting pummelled left and right and terrified in other IV missions... ya, it'd be deserved. But it went from "difficult" to "You're going to die and you really have no option here except the blind luck of hitting the right drone that's warp scrambling you". That's poor game design. I don't mind a challenge. Not at all. I've lost ships before (this one is insured) in good fights. That's not what happened here. Now seeing as how the Eve Forums are more like the WoW forums than most would care to admit... many people are going to respond with the whole boohoo ZEARN 2 PLY NWB!! bit. Save it. In the hundreds upon hundreds of previous missions I've faced I've never required warp field stabilization. Not once. In the mission text it did not suggest I needed it. So far as I knew, NPCs didn't even DO that. However... let's say they spring it on me. Alright, fine. Don't spring it on me in a situation that, without blind luck, results in my destruction. Make it a flavoring. Not a death sentence. Literally, I started off at full and killed drone after drone hoping to find the one that was scrambling me... but with no luck. I was hit up with THAT many drones at one time. Again, it's poor game design.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.04.09 18:26:00 - [2] Quote: For the first time in the entire game I encountered NPCs that warp scramble. (It never even hinted at this in the mission info) Wait, you got all the way to level 4 missions without encountering warp scrambling NPCs?! --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio (back up, new address!)
Elgar Lightfoot Lightfoot Industries	Posted - 2007.04.09 18:28:00 - [3] Edited by: Elgar Lightfoot on 09/04/2007 18:25:43 Everyone knows there's WS in lvl 4 missions, what most would like is some indication of WHO is scramming them. EDIT: Almost everyone .
Stakhanov Shih Yang Tong	Posted - 2007.04.09 18:30:00 - [4] You know , warp scrambling comes with a nifty effect. Come to lowsec , I'll teach you how to find out who's scrambling you
Sirri	Posted - 2007.04.09 18:31:00 - [5] Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot Edited by: Elgar Lightfoot on 09/04/2007 18:25:43 Everyone knows there's WS in lvl 4 missions, what most would like is some indication of WHO is scramming them. EDIT: Almost everyone . Yeah, I got that handy mail that told me all about it. Oh, wait. no I didn't.
Aybabtu Angel Holdings	Posted - 2007.04.09 18:33:00 - [6] just look for the ships with the warp scram animation ... the blue pulsish typa thing.. ( yea technical) and pop em.. job done.
TheHumanity	Posted - 2007.04.09 18:37:00 - [7] You know what this game really needs? Some kind of animation to show you who is scrambling. Nothing fancy, you know, just like a blue dashed line. That'd pretty much solve all these problems. Hang on...
Sean Dillon Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.04.09 18:39:00 - [8] It might be a good idea to do a forum search www.evesearch.com before trying a lvl 4 you never did before. For every bomber u kill a spawn will come. I did the mission couple days ago in my drake, actually triggered like 2 spawns at once, but what the hell. I went for the frigates and popped them relative quickly. In certain situations its best to stay cool and start popping those pesky scrambling frigs, lock em get your drones on them and start alligning to warp out once frigs are gone warp out if your still alive. Even when you warp out in like 10% structure its still better then thinking "oh **** i am boned".
Doragee Minmatar Unknown Society	Posted - 2007.04.09 18:40:00 - [9] So...let me get this straight: You went in insufficient informed about missioning per se and this particular mission ist "poorly designed"??? Are you really honest?? --
Brutor Shaun Minmatar Freelancers UK Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.09 18:42:00 - [10] Every day's a school day. Since the patch I've been scrambled, nos'd, damped, and all other manner of evil. Learn and adapt. Drone Love - My skills
Zirth Caldari The Descent	Posted - 2007.04.09 18:50:00 - [11] Poor post design. The whole sentence+enter thing lost its originality halfway trough. Seriously though, I do somewhat agree. It should be hinted a bit, but really, there's tons of mission guides out there. I always read when ship scrambles and send my drones to take care of em while I pound bigger ships, and warp out if needed. Just type in the mission name in google, and look up the corrent type. (There's sometimes multiple types of missions for difference factions, like a guristas and angels), then check if there's any scramming, read about the correct types of hardeners and ammo to use, what grid to agro etc. Sorry for your loss, I do agree that it's kind of ***, them scramblers. It'd be nice if (at least in missions), it'd show what drone is scramming you, a bit like if something is dampening you it shows the lil bar in the bottom of the screen with the name.
Jex Jast Go for the booty	Posted - 2007.04.09 18:51:00 - [12] You know Sirri you seem to be a big complainer. Whine about customer service, whine about a mission being too hard, whine about mining not being fun enough. I guess your best bet is to become a pirate. Then you get the excitement that mining doesn't bring, the variability of your "missions" so you can't say there's some issue with one of them, and no customer service because you can't claim you lost your ship to "lag" as mission runners can. -----
MrTripps Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.09 18:52:00 - [13] Originally by: Sirri In the hundreds upon hundreds of previous missions I've faced I've never required warp field stabilization. Not once. Sorry for the loss, mate. NPCs do seem to scram more these days and not only in missions. As others mentioned, you will save yourself a lot of grief if you check out the mission out of game first and there is a way to tell who is scramming. Admittedly it is hard to locate them when you are getting blown to hell. Note: If you end up in a pod take the time to bookmark your can first so you can get it later. I fly a starship across the Universe divide And when I reach the other side I'll find a place to rest my spirit if I can Perhaps I may become a highwayman again - Willie Nelson
Sirri	Posted - 2007.04.09 18:52:00 - [14] Edited by: Sirri on 09/04/2007 18:50:19 Originally by: Dark Shikari Quote: For the first time in the entire game I encountered NPCs that warp scramble. (It never even hinted at this in the mission info) Wait, you got all the way to level 4 missions without encountering warp scrambling NPCs?! Correct. I had only previously been WS by PCs. So far as I knew NPCs did not WS. Even then it's not the issue that I was WS that I'm irritated with. For example, many peopl ave effectively told me to metagame. i.e. Read up on missions before you do them. If you need to "cheat" (And that's essentielly what metagaming is) in order to stand a chance in a mission the mission is poorly designed. I read my mission text before I go into a mission for that very reason.
Brutor Shaun Minmatar Freelancers UK Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.09 18:57:00 - [15] Originally by: Sirri Edited by: Sirri on 09/04/2007 18:50:19 Originally by: Dark Shikari Quote: For the first time in the entire game I encountered NPCs that warp scramble. (It never even hinted at this in the mission info) Wait, you got all the way to level 4 missions without encountering warp scrambling NPCs?! Correct. I had only previously been WS by PCs. So far as I knew NPCs did not WS. Even then it's not the issue that I was WS that I'm irritated with. For example, many peopl ave effectively told me to metagame. i.e. Read up on missions before you do them. If you need to "cheat" (And that's essentielly what metagaming is) in order to stand a chance in a mission the mission is poorly designed. I read my mission text before I go into a mission for that very reason. Do you want your mission brief to tell you the spawn order, what ammo to use, what to tank, etc.? Read up prior to a mission, or learn by your mistakes. You chose the latter. Drone Love - My skills
Sirri	Posted - 2007.04.09 18:58:00 - [16] Originally by: Jex Jast You know Sirri you seem to be a big complainer. Whine about customer service, whine about a mission being too hard, whine about mining not being fun enough. I guess your best bet is to become a pirate. Then you get the excitement that mining doesn't bring, the variability of your "missions" so you can't say there's some issue with one of them, and no customer service because you can't claim you lost your ship to "lag" as mission runners can. Well, this game has a tendency to seriously **** me off. So, it's either gripe about it here or go shoot the neighbor kid. Since I like staying out of prison more than I like you the neighbor kid is safe and you get to read my griping posts. However... might I point out you intentionally read a post by me... and then proceeded to gripe about it.. let us dwell on the delicious irony of your intellectual masochism. Or... "I'll whine about your whining".
Brutor Shaun Minmatar Freelancers UK Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.09 19:00:00 - [17] At least no-one has whined that this should be in the missions forum yet! Drone Love - My skills
Sirri	Posted - 2007.04.09 19:02:00 - [18] Quote: Do you want your mission brief to tell you the spawn order, what ammo to use, what to tank, etc.? Read up prior to a mission, or learn by your mistakes. You chose the latter. No. Ass. I'd like some hint that I'll be facing a form of attack I had never previously faced against before. No player can always prepare for every contingency out there. Allow me to reiterate... I shouldn't have to CHEAT in order to survive the mission.
Brutor Shaun Minmatar Freelancers UK Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.09 19:05:00 - [19] Originally by: Sirri Quote: Do you want your mission brief to tell you the spawn order, what ammo to use, what to tank, etc.? Read up prior to a mission, or learn by your mistakes. You chose the latter. No. Ass. I'd like some hint that I'll be facing a form of attack I had never previously faced against before. No player can always prepare for every contingency out there. Allow me to reiterate... I shouldn't have to CHEAT in order to survive the mission. Ass? LOL! At least I ran that mission several times without losing my ship! Gathering intel on your target is not 'cheating'. Drone Love - My skills
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2007.04.09 19:07:00 - [20] Originally by: Sirri Quote: Do you want your mission brief to tell you the spawn order, what ammo to use, what to tank, etc.? Read up prior to a mission, or learn by your mistakes. You chose the latter. No. Ass. I'd like some hint that I'll be facing a form of attack I had never previously faced against before. No player can always prepare for every contingency out there. Allow me to reiterate... I shouldn't have to CHEAT in order to survive the mission. Level 4 agents where never meant to be done solo in the first place! Either bring backup next time, or face the consequenses by going in alone. Besides, EVE where never meant to be a game where the game holds your hands anyway. Adapt or move on. Originally by: Eldo Davip PORTRAITS OMFG WOOT. WE R GONIG FOR MROE BREEE!!!!11
Roue Alcoholics R' Us Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.09 19:15:00 - [21] Originally by: Dark Shikari Quote: For the first time in the entire game I encountered NPCs that warp scramble. (It never even hinted at this in the mission info) Wait, you got all the way to level 4 missions without encountering warp scrambling NPCs?! Dark shikari. You know it has been proven that warp scrambling drones to not exist between the auction selection screen and the paypal confirmation screen. This is my opinion not that of privateer corp, alliance, its member corps, affiliates, minions, pet animals, ex girlfriends, former roommates, 3rd grade gym teachers, late relatives, ontime relatives,
Illistar DeathWing Igneus Auctorita	Posted - 2007.04.09 19:23:00 - [22] I'm not even sure where to start. You are complaining that you got ws in a mission, when it's already common knowledge that atleast 30% of lvl 4 missions have ships that wcs. Next you are complaining about losing a ship in lvl 4 missions that were designed to be done in groups not solo. And finally you call gathering information mega-gaming when it's actually nothing more then... gathering info. There are a ton of things eve does not tell you that you need to figure out your self. Such as what damage types npcs do and what damage types they are weak against. You can either look in one of 3 milion profiles or spend days figuring it out your self. Eve isn't here to hold your hand while you shoot drones. And finally. You didn't know about ws in missions, now you do. It wasent a complete loss of time and money... You learned something new!
Sirri	Posted - 2007.04.09 19:29:00 - [23] Originally by: Illistar DeathWing I'm not even sure where to start. You are complaining that you got ws in a mission, when it's already common knowledge that atleast 30% of lvl 4 missions have ships that wcs. Next you are complaining about losing a ship in lvl 4 missions that were designed to be done in groups not solo. And finally you call gathering information mega-gaming when it's actually nothing more then... gathering info. There are a ton of things eve does not tell you that you need to figure out your self. Such as what damage types npcs do and what damage types they are weak against. You can either look in one of 3 milion profiles or spend days figuring it out your self. Eve isn't here to hold your hand while you shoot drones. And finally. You didn't know about ws in missions, now you do. It wasent a complete loss of time and money... You learned something new! Metagaming is cheating. Going outside of the game to gather information on the game is cheating. No where have I seen it said IVs are meant for groups. Further, I've done more than a few IVs and this is the first one where I got WS'd. I'm not asking for hand holding, and dismissing my argument in suggesting that's what I'm looking for is insulting. If it helps you feel more masculine by all means suggest I need hand holding. When in fact I don't want to have to rely on the forums, or metagaming or any other form of cheating in order to complete the mission. People keep rattling off "Well it's common knowledge". Well, where the **** is the memo? Is it in game? Who sent my the email? Or do I have to go outside the game for that too? You know, for the common knowledge memo of the in game stuff.
Dixon Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.09 19:29:00 - [24] Well, I'm not going to call you an ass. But if you have done all the level 4 missions you _could_ have noticed that most 'strain' type drones tend to warp scramble. This and the visible effect could have saved you, it did in my case. So, you might not be an ass but you did fail to notice some integral stuff.
Valerian Xavier Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.09 19:34:00 - [25] Edited by: Valerian Xavier on 09/04/2007 19:31:37 Originally by: Aybabtu just look for the ships with the warp scram animation ... the blue pulsish typa thing.. ( yea technical) and pop em.. job done. Thread over. not to mention the fact that its pretty common knowledge that there is warp scrambling in lvl 4 missions. like...i don't see how you couldn't have known if you've done 'countless' other lvl 4 missions
Sirri	Posted - 2007.04.09 19:39:00 - [26] Originally by: Dixon Well, I'm not going to call you an ass. But if you have done all the level 4 missions you _could_ have noticed that most 'strain' type drones tend to warp scramble. This and the visible effect could have saved you, it did in my case. So, you might not be an ass but you did fail to notice some integral stuff. This is the first time I had faced them. Had the mission text actually stated something to the effect there was a chance I'd be WS'd we wouldn't be having this conversation. In essence CCP is relying on the PLAYERS to provide accurate mission text. That is poor game design. I should not require the forums in order to live through a mission.
Illistar DeathWing Igneus Auctorita	Posted - 2007.04.09 19:42:00 - [27] Originally by: Sirri Originally by: Illistar DeathWing I'm not even sure where to start. You are complaining that you got ws in a mission, when it's already common knowledge that atleast 30% of lvl 4 missions have ships that wcs. Next you are complaining about losing a ship in lvl 4 missions that were designed to be done in groups not solo. And finally you call gathering information mega-gaming when it's actually nothing more then... gathering info. There are a ton of things eve does not tell you that you need to figure out your self. Such as what damage types npcs do and what damage types they are weak against. You can either look in one of 3 milion profiles or spend days figuring it out your self. Eve isn't here to hold your hand while you shoot drones. And finally. You didn't know about ws in missions, now you do. It wasent a complete loss of time and money... You learned something new! Metagaming is cheating. Going outside of the game to gather information on the game is cheating. No where have I seen it said IVs are meant for groups. Further, I've done more than a few IVs and this is the first one where I got WS'd. I'm not asking for hand holding, and dismissing my argument in suggesting that's what I'm looking for is insulting. If it helps you feel more masculine by all means suggest I need hand holding. When in fact I don't want to have to rely on the forums, or metagaming or any other form of cheating in order to complete the mission. People keep rattling off "Well it's common knowledge". Well, where the **** is the memo? Is it in game? Who sent my the email? Or do I have to go outside the game for that too? You know, for the common knowledge memo of the in game stuff. The point is you don't NEED a memo. There are things in this game you learn from errors. There is nothing that shows you how to pvp, and much of the game is learned on your own because you do not get that much from the tutorial. You didn't know about ws in missions maybe because of bad luck, maybe because you never had to warp out in missions that has ws. I'm not too sure, but I've known about them for months, way before I did any lvl 4s. And I'm not telling you to go out of game to gather info. I have NEVER had to do that. And yet I still menage to you know, ask if anyone in my corp did the mission and what it was like. God forbit you actually interact with people in an MMO instead of solo farm the lvl 4s.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.09 19:44:00 - [28] Bless. Lesson learned, maybe? Just kill the scramblers first- there's some in most level 4s and in some belt spawns. Its not bad mission design, you just weren't very good --------
Izzy Pol Fear and Loathing in LoneTrek	Posted - 2007.04.09 19:46:00 - [29] Originally by: Sirri Originally by: Dixon Well, I'm not going to call you an ass. But if you have done all the level 4 missions you _could_ have noticed that most 'strain' type drones tend to warp scramble. This and the visible effect could have saved you, it did in my case. So, you might not be an ass but you did fail to notice some integral stuff. This is the first time I had faced them. Had the mission text actually stated something to the effect there was a chance I'd be WS'd we wouldn't be having this conversation. In essence CCP is relying on the PLAYERS to provide accurate mission text. That is poor game design. I should not require the forums in order to live through a mission. Many missions warp scramble. Heres the rub though. If you don't need to wapr out you don't know you are scrambled. Now if we follow this through you may have been scrambled THOUSANDS of times in missions and not known it! Please stop whining. Do you want your agent to say "Dear Sirri. We noticed these drones have laser thingies and may shoot you!" And finally, earlier you mentioned something like "game should inform you since you have never encountered it before". How is the game meant to know this?
FalconHawk Amarr Falcon Advanced Industries	Posted - 2007.04.09 19:50:00 - [30] Wtf is that? what you have thought? LV4 missions are freaking easy, fill the wallet and there is no way the NPCs will kill your ship? Sorry for your loss, but hey would a game where u loose nothing be pretty boring? Not to mention that i consider your "overwhelming odds" as tiny little drone battleships ... you whine cause there was no "BE CAREFUL YOU CAN LOOSE YOUR SHIP" sign in the mission description and you blame CCP that you have lost your ship? risk vs reward, pls go back to 1.0 veldspat mining (god i¦m a semi carebaer myself, but that was way too much, sorry for the rant)

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