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ACESsiggy Pandemic Shadow 66	Posted - 2016.12.16 12:27:40 - [1] - Quote I remember the lottery system or aka the rigged system once upon a time. Are blue print originals still in the game and if so, why? GÇ£The open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.GÇ¥
Sequester Risalo Semiki Minerals and Missiles Company Ltd. 258	Posted - 2016.12.16 12:29:43 - [2] - Quote Only existing ones are still in game. There are no more new T2 BPOs. The only way to manufactue T2 stuff is by invention now.
ACESsiggy Pandemic Shadow 66	Posted - 2016.12.16 12:31:55 - [3] - Quote Sequester Risalo wrote: Only existing ones are still in game. There are no more new T2 BPOs. The only way to manufactue T2 stuff is by invention now. Ok and why weren't the existing ones removed or at least downgraded to a certain amount of runs? lol that is so broken. GÇ£The open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.GÇ¥
Bjorn Tyrson EVE University Ivy League 49	Posted - 2016.12.16 12:59:08 - [4] - Quote ACESsiggy wrote: Sequester Risalo wrote: Only existing ones are still in game. There are no more new T2 BPOs. The only way to manufactue T2 stuff is by invention now. Ok and why weren't the existing ones removed or at least downgraded to a certain amount of runs? lol that is so broken. It's honestly not as bad as people think. Yes they are isk printing machines. But for most of them the profit margins are so little vs their value (mostly as collectors jtems) that it will take years to turn a profit. As for why they weren't removed... they are a legacy item. And one whose core mechanics have not actually changed, is fully functional. And while expensive can still be bought and sold by players. Just because there is no new ones entering the game does not merit their removal. By that logic all alliance tournament ships should he removed After all, they where not made universally available. No new ones are entering the market. They are massively expensive and give a big advantage to those who have them... at least with tech 2 you can still acquire the copies
Lord Ra Section XII The Southern Querious Drug Cartel 116	Posted - 2016.12.16 13:36:45 - [5] - Quote Once upon a time 24 adaptive nano plating bpcs sitting in my hangar as rewards turned into t2 bpos when ccp decided to seed the t1 variant bpo. and you want this type of black magic reversed?. How very dare you Ra
Gregorius Goldstein Ze One Man Show 1223	Posted - 2016.12.16 13:48:08 - [6] - Quote T2 BPOs are broken, imba and unfair until I can get my hand on one :)
Memphis Baas 2531	Posted - 2016.12.16 14:30:39 - [7] - Quote ACESsiggy wrote: Ok and why weren't the existing ones removed or at least downgraded to a certain amount of runs? lol that is so broken. Get used to people having stuff that you'll never get access to. BPO's. Unique ships. All skills 5. Trillion ISK. The trust of the entire community. Direct access to devs. Character history going back all the way to 2003. So broken. EDIT: BPO's are of Miner II. Nobody gives a **** about Miner II's.
Eternus8lux8lucis Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM 1140	Posted - 2016.12.16 14:52:14 - [8] - Quote They have rebalanced the invention in relation to the BPOs twice now. Each time increasing the rewards for the invention versus the BPOs. With economies of scale there is literally no way a T2 BPO can even begin to compete with the invention. There used to be a few items that a BPO holder could still sell into and oversupply the market, I havent checked recently, but the used stuff its way better profit to use more slots rather than the BPO and has been for years now. I like that CCP found a way to not remove them and kept them as Legacy items. Have you heard anything I've said? You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right? That's right. Had to end sometime.
000Hunter000 Missiles 'R' Us 93	Posted - 2016.12.16 16:54:32 - [9] - Quote NO, u can't have mine!!! I only have the FFING one! You know how long i had to wait for it? And no, it's not for sale, it's like my medal for sticking around for so long!
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 2923	Posted - 2016.12.16 16:57:40 - [10] - Quote ACESsiggy wrote: Sequester Risalo wrote: Only existing ones are still in game. There are no more new T2 BPOs. The only way to manufactue T2 stuff is by invention now. Ok and why weren't the existing ones removed or at least downgraded to a certain amount of runs? lol that is so broken. They're largely irrelevant and mostly function as historical relics, collector's items, and utilities for extracting salt from people who are bad at math. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

mkint 1318	Posted - 2016.12.16 17:06:47 - [11] - Quote Both supply and demand are at such high levels, the BPOs reflect a negligible portion of the market. The cost of them is so high that the rate of return is basically nothing. The only real value is collectors value. Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Memphis Baas 2533	Posted - 2016.12.16 19:29:49 - [12] - Quote You guys are not responding properly. OP has posted a whine. Gotta goad him more, extract extra salt. This is General Discussion, dammit.
Vigirr 213	Posted - 2016.12.16 20:59:11 - [13] - Quote OP clearly doesn't understand maths and game mechanics. These days those BPO are pretty much useless compared to the onslaught of invention BPC, the effort & time it takes is hardly worth it.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 2926	Posted - 2016.12.16 21:12:36 - [14] - Quote Memphis Baas wrote: You guys are not responding properly. OP has posted a whine. Gotta goad him more, extract extra salt. This is General Discussion, dammit. They're just really not that good, though. In a generous month, my BPOs only generate maybe 20 billion. It's barely worth the effort to plug them in. I have to wring the rest of my monthly whelp budget out of the taxes on my personal fleet of highsec POCOs and the peasants who use them. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Morgan Agrivar Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 708	Posted - 2016.12.17 01:56:17 - [15] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Memphis Baas wrote: You guys are not responding properly. OP has posted a whine. Gotta goad him more, extract extra salt. This is General Discussion, dammit. In a generous month, both of my BPOs only generate maybe 20 billion. It's barely worth the effort to plug them in. Just for the record, I hate you.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5592	Posted - 2016.12.17 03:21:05 - [16] - Quote ACESsiggy wrote: I remember the lottery system or aka the rigged system once upon a time. Are blue print originals still in the game and if so, why? Wow, haven't seen one of these stupid threads in awhile. T2 modules have never been cheaper mostly as a result of changes to industry primarily aimed at invention. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Chainsaw Plankton Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 2340	Posted - 2016.12.17 03:38:36 - [17] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: ACESsiggy wrote: I remember the lottery system or aka the rigged system once upon a time. Are blue print originals still in the game and if so, why? Wow, haven't seen one of these stupid threads in awhile. T2 modules have never been cheaper mostly as a result of changes to industry primarily aimed at invention. I think removing negative me/te levels on invented bpcs did a lot to squash these threads, that said a lot of the math was on the side of invention even then. I like browsing contracts by most expensive just to see what t2 bpos are up for sale and every now and then I'll look at them in industry and just laugh a bit at whoever buys them. @ChainsawPlankto
Shayla Etherodyne Delta Laroth Industries Voxis Accord 112	Posted - 2016.12.17 07:37:23 - [18] - Quote ACESsiggy wrote: Sequester Risalo wrote: Only existing ones are still in game. There are no more new T2 BPOs. The only way to manufactue T2 stuff is by invention now. Ok and why weren't the existing ones removed or at least downgraded to a certain amount of runs? lol that is so broken. Because the invented copies now don't have negative ME an TE and T2 BPO are capped at ME 20 TE 10; because inventing cost very little beside the skills; because punishing everyone that has got them legally because someone has cheated to get them is wrong; and because it bugs people like you.
ACESsiggy Pandemic Shadow 67	Posted - 2016.12.17 10:02:49 - [19] - Quote Shayla Etherodyne wrote: Because the invented copies now don't have negative ME an TE and T2 BPO are capped at ME 20 TE 10; because inventing cost very little beside the skills; because punishing everyone that has got them legally because someone has cheated to get them is wrong; and because it bugs people like you. Punishing by receiving it legally? They changed the system because it was broken from what I was told. If the past lottery system was broken/rigged and bpo's were handed out to "certain players", why overhaul the entire mechanic with receiving t2 blueprints but yet leave players the bpo.... that just doesn't add up. Some have said it is more of a collectors item or that the profit margin is negligible. It's the premise that a system was in place but removed due to issues yet left it with no explanation. Now if the profit margins are negligible or that it's only a collectors item like the Scaled Model of [RFS] Mah'tu Rea, please go ahead and contract them to me guys :) GÇ£The open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.GÇ¥
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 46313	Posted - 2016.12.17 10:14:43 - [20] - Quote ACESsiggy wrote: Now if the profit margins are negligible or that it's only a collectors item like the Scaled Model of [RFS] Mah'tu Rea, please go ahead and contract them to me guys :) Why would anyone contract a collectors item to you? I know what you were really getting at, but the logic of what you actually wrote is missing. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari

Xert Trassien Bunyip Munitions 35	Posted - 2016.12.17 10:32:22 - [21] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Memphis Baas wrote: You guys are not responding properly. OP has posted a whine. Gotta goad him more, extract extra salt. This is General Discussion, dammit. They're not even good enough to troll about anymore. In a generous month, both of my BPOs only generate maybe 20 billion. It's barely worth the effort to plug them in. I have to wring the rest of my monthly whelp budget out of the taxes on my personal fleet of highsec POCOs and the peasants who use them. I make 40 bil from my drone bpo collection a month and yes then have to struggle to find the isk for my plex. But Op they are more a buy and keep fpr a while then flip to make a few bil. Tho that not getting easier to do either
Memphis Baas 2541	Posted - 2016.12.17 15:46:14 - [22] - Quote ACESsiggy wrote: Punishing by receiving it legally? You know, do your homework if you're going to post. There were a few BPO's given out before the lottery was disabled. You're looking at something to the tune of once a month, for about a year. Most of the ones that won the BPOs won by chance (i.e. "fairly"), but then Reddit revealed that one of the winners was a personal friend of a dev and got a Miner II BPO as a gift instead of random dice roll. So the question was, why punish those who got it fairly just because one person cheated. Now you're full of envy for the 11 or so people who managed to get BPOs, and we've tried to explain to you that the invention system has made BPO's obsolete, but you're not dropping it. There is no precedent of CCP forcefully removing non-exploit items out of people's hangars. Chremoas are ships given out only to a few people, extremely rare, worth billions; should they be removed? No. There's all sorts of examples like this, where some players either worked hard and won something, or they just got lucky and won something, so stop being envious and get used to it. Tell you what, the gifts we're getting this Christmas are somewhat random. Some people are getting some skins, others are getting other skins. Newbie corvette skin vs. Svipul skin. How's your luck been? Post here so we can rub it in your face.
ACESsiggy Pandemic Shadow 67	Posted - 2016.12.17 17:47:31 - [23] - Quote Memphis Baas wrote: So the question was, why punish those who got it fairly just because one person cheated. -- This has nothing to do with punishing players. The mechanic of how Tech 2 blueprints are obtained was changed. If you're going to change something, do it across the board. Memphis Baas wrote: Now you're full of envy. -- Far from it but if I need someone to talk to, I'll make sure to message you in game lol Memphis Baas wrote: There is no precedent of CCP forcefully removing non-exploit items out of people's hangars. Chremoas are ships given out only to a few people, extremely rare, worth billions; should they be removed?. -- Again, the game mechanic for tech2 blueprints was changed. Relating a game mechanic of how items are created and sold on the market to a Christmas gifts is ...... (insert dialogue here). Though I wouldn't mind making a couple thousand Chremoas with a BPO. GÇ£The open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.GÇ¥
Shayla Etherodyne Delta Laroth Industries Voxis Accord 113	Posted - 2016.12.17 20:11:43 - [24] - Quote ACESsiggy wrote: Memphis Baas wrote: So the question was, why punish those who got it fairly just because one person cheated. -- This has nothing to do with punishing players. The mechanic of how Tech 2 blueprints are obtained was changed. If you're going to change something, do it across the board. Memphis Baas wrote: Now you're full of envy. -- Far from it but if I need someone to talk to, I'll make sure to message you in game lol Memphis Baas wrote: There is no precedent of CCP forcefully removing non-exploit items out of people's hangars. Chremoas are ships given out only to a few people, extremely rare, worth billions; should they be removed?. -- Again, the game mechanic for tech2 blueprints was changed. Relating a game mechanic of how items are created and sold on the market to a Christmas gifts is ...... (insert dialogue here). Though I wouldn't mind making a couple thousand Chremoas with a BPO. I still have an Enyo called "Scop gift". When I started we hadn't loyalty points but it was possible to get T2 frigates as gift from the corporations. So my ship was received as a gift from Scope it it has survived to this day. It should be removed because no one can receive T2 frigates that way nowadays? I received a daredevil BPC from a rat wandering in a combat mission in high sec while I was mining a omber asteroid. If it was still alive it should be removed because in high sec wandering rats don't drop BPC anymore? You are full of envy and rage for what you don't have, without any idea of what it do or what was done to receive the items legally. You follow very well today political settings, but most people doing that live in an illusionary world where simple solutions to complex problem exist.
ACESsiggy Pandemic Shadow 67	Posted - 2016.12.17 21:08:08 - [25] - Quote Shayla Etherodyne wrote: I still have an Enyo called "Scop gift". When I started we hadn't loyalty points but it was possible to get T2 frigates as gift from the corporations. So my ship was received as a gift from Scope it it has survived to this day. It should be removed because no one can receive T2 frigates that way nowadays? I received a daredevil BPC from a rat wandering in a combat mission in high sec while I was mining a omber asteroid. If it was still alive it should be removed because in high sec wandering rats don't drop BPC anymore? You are full of envy and rage for what you don't have, without any idea of what it do or what was done to receive the items legally. You follow very well today political settings, but most people doing that live in an illusionary world where simple solutions to complex problem exist. Do you still receive the "scope gift" or create anymore in the game through industry? lol Congrats on the daredevil bpc drop. Nice loot man. There is no envy or rage bud. GÇ£The open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.GÇ¥
Shayla Etherodyne Delta Laroth Industries Voxis Accord 113	Posted - 2016.12.17 21:56:47 - [26] - Quote ACESsiggy wrote: Shayla Etherodyne wrote: I still have an Enyo called "Scop gift". When I started we hadn't loyalty points but it was possible to get T2 frigates as gift from the corporations. So my ship was received as a gift from Scope it it has survived to this day. It should be removed because no one can receive T2 frigates that way nowadays? I received a daredevil BPC from a rat wandering in a combat mission in high sec while I was mining a omber asteroid. If it was still alive it should be removed because in high sec wandering rats don't drop BPC anymore? You are full of envy and rage for what you don't have, without any idea of what it do or what was done to receive the items legally. You follow very well today political settings, but most people doing that live in an illusionary world where simple solutions to complex problem exist. Do you still receive the "scope gift" or create anymore in the game through industry? lol Congrats on the daredevil bpc drop. Nice loot man. There is no envy or rage bud. I am still using that Enyo, a character of mine is using it in the SOE story arc for fun, so I am still benefiting for the gift.
Toobo Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium 402	Posted - 2016.12.17 22:48:52 - [27] - Quote Don't be silly. I'll play along a bit. 1. A new national Lucky Draw opens. The winner gets a special edition Lamborghini, that you can only get through lucky draw, as they are not sold on the market. 2. Winners are chosen by RNG and prize Lamborghinis are awarded 3. This went on for one year. 4. Then there was a scandal, that one of the lucky draw instance was 'rigged', and the crooked insiders have rigged the draw to gift a limited edition Lamborghini to a particular individual 5. Lamborghini says, ok no more lucky draws, sorry, we apologise, but we make these cars available for you to buy on market - no they are not exactly same as the original limited editions, but they perform pretty well enough, and probably makes more sense to buy than buying the original editions from the lucky draws 6. Then you come along and say - hey destroy all the original limited edition lamborghinis that were legitimately won through lucky draw, and since then changed ownership through legitimate transactions (via auctions etc) as collector's items - because, well, baaaaaaahhh? I like this. Because some people really want to make it sound like they are complaining about something as matter of principle, not because of :salt: and being poor. But in reality that's all there is to it. Salt and being poor. If you really don't like T2 BPOs. BUY THEM ALL AND TRASH THEM. Otherwise STFU. ;) Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 2949	Posted - 2016.12.18 01:22:33 - [28] - Quote Toobo wrote: 4. Then there was a scandal, that one of the lucky draw instance was 'rigged', and the crooked insiders have rigged the draw to gift a limited edition Lamborghini to a particular individual 5. Lamborghini says, ok no more lucky draws, sorry, we apologise, but we make these cars available for you to buy on market - no they are not exactly same as the original limited editions, but they perform pretty well enough, and probably makes more sense to buy than buying the original editions from the lucky draws It's worth noting that the scandal really wasn't the reason for the end of the BPO lottery. The trouble with the BPO distribution mechanism is that it meant there was a finite amount of production capability for T2 items in the game. This was problematic for a variety of reasons. -It was easy to form price fixing cartels by buying up all or most of a given BPO (cap recharger IIs were profoundly expensive for a while because of this). -This also made it hopeless for smaller entities to effectively break into T2 production, because once such a cartel got ahold of them, they were never letting go of that cash cow. -Distribution had to be manually modulated. Suppose someone left the game with their huge cache of BPOs? Distribute more? Take theirs? What if they come back? How do you accommodate a growing population with a finite number of BPOs? Invention fully addressed these problems. Supply can be scaled to meet any demand, it's impossible to monopolize the production of an item, and it's accessible at a wide range of budgets and production capabilities. They didn't remove the BPOs because the BPOs were never the problem - distributing T2 production capability was the problem. If you're still ass-sore about them, you are, of course, welcome to buy them up and trash them, but since they're not causing a problem, yet are still a relatively large source of perceived value, you can't expect them to just be poofed out of existence. ;) "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Toobo Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium 402	Posted - 2016.12.18 05:44:22 - [29] - Quote SurrenderMonkey - yeah good points. The reason why I put it that way is because the OP's argument is based on the principle that 'some' of these BPO distribution was 'rigged'. As you know there have been many (surprisingly less now though) whines about how T2 BPO 'ruin the market', in which case your explanation is very good for those audiences. I used my example specifically designed to show how ridiculous OP's post is, not to explain the reality of T2 BPO in the matket. :) Personally I NEVER got this T2 BPO hate/salt. They are actually very affordable in many ways. Most T2 BPOs (even with prices that have become funny over the years) are cheaper than a Titan, of which there are so many in EVE. Some of the not so stellar BPOs are similar or even cheaper than a Super, which there are even more in the game. Any established player or corp capable of running cap production have enough budget for T2 BPO, if they wanted. Anyways, as for my last words 'buy them and trash them', it's just generally what I think. I don't really respect people who demand changes using their words only. If someone is really committed to making changes I expect him to put his money into it. I have similar view IRL too. Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!
Scath Bererund SergalJerk Test Alliance Please Ignore 32	Posted - 2016.12.18 14:05:49 - [30] - Quote Its about time T2 BPOs where removed from the game. They mostly date back to a time CCP openly cheated and gave thier frends items in game. Now they just make invention of some items unprofitable as they can sell 10/20 copies



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