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Stealth bombers? why do they need to cloack

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Escaped Convict	Posted - 2007.04.10 11:59:00 - [1] I have a bit of a love hate relationship with stealth bombers they do what they do realy well but are totaly usless in practise ie fleet battles"like a few ship classes" basicaly stealth bombers in RL dont cloack they are just hard to hit/lock/find so why should stealth bombers in eve cloack? the idea is that a new modual be made that rather than cloacking a ship it PHASED ie becomes harder to lock and had a high chanse of unlocking a ship that had a lock but mainly you can use it while you are locked, while you are "out of phase" you can not lock or use any other modules like a cloack but speed is INCREASED. the moduel has a recharge time of say 30 and last 10 secs meaning you use it spareingly. there is a small chance you can be locked while in PHASE in whichcase you are diffenceless untill youre phase ends. the inpact this will have is that the stealth bomber becomes a "SLIPPERY EAL" that can only be targeted by fast locking ships or ships with high strength sensors it also means as the ships phases every 20 secs that slow locking ships ie BS would have a hard time killing it. why not ecm? yes fitting ecm will have the same effect but ecm only effects one target and is an offencive wepon this wepon is defencive and defends against multiple locks ie can be used in fleet battles. potentail abuse would be a setup that uses a phases moduale and a clock to cloack while in battle but a stacking penalty would fix that:D a lesser modual could be made for other ships like the cloack so you could fit an inty with a phase modual to make a stealth fighter :D is this a good idea? http://www.badongo.com/pic.php?file=new+banner__2005-12-31_Unfortunate+Banner.jpg
sableye principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.04.10 12:01:00 - [2] sounds to me like you'd make an already ship that needed boosting into somethingt hat was even easier to kill and lose. Join The Fight With Promo Today
Kylania Gallente Phoenix Industries	Posted - 2007.04.10 12:06:00 - [3] Wouldn't be too stealthy if they couldn't! -- Lil Miner Newbie Skills Roadmap \| How to Build from a BPO
Escaped Convict	Posted - 2007.04.10 12:10:00 - [4] Originally by: Kylania Wouldn't be too stealthy if they couldn't! so the stealth bombers of RL arnt stealth bombers as they dont cloack http://www.badongo.com/pic.php?file=new+banner__2005-12-31_Unfortunate+Banner.jpg
Haffrage Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.04.10 12:12:00 - [5] Originally by: Escaped Convict Originally by: Kylania Wouldn't be too stealthy if they couldn't! so the stealth bombers of RL arnt stealth bombers as they dont cloack I wasn't aware we had an overview in RL that showed us anything and everything within 1000 KM of RL. Can you tell me how to get that working? Because it would seriously make life easier for me. Hint: They cloak because if they aren't cloaked everybody knows they're there whether the camera faces that way or not ----- Tech 2 Tier 2 Battlecruisers
Belloc Slunv Amarr CCCP INC	Posted - 2007.04.10 12:13:00 - [6] Originally by: Escaped Convict Originally by: Kylania Wouldn't be too stealthy if they couldn't! so the stealth bombers of RL arnt stealth bombers as they dont cloack The Stealth Bombers of today don't have a phasing module to bring them in phase and out of phase. They're specificly designed to reflect RF radiation at odd angles to minimize radar returns from the aircraft. They are also designed to absorb said RF radiation, and mitigate heat coming out of the exhaust.
Jita Alt	Posted - 2007.04.10 12:15:00 - [7] I'm no expert or anything but isn't one of the main reasons today's stealth bombers don't cloak because they haven't actually invented cloaks yet?
Escaped Convict	Posted - 2007.04.10 12:16:00 - [8] yes cloacking stops you from being seen that works great for COVERTOPS and spying but it sucks for combat as you cant use it once the fight has started unlike in RL a stealth bomber is hard to hit whether on not it has been spooted http://www.badongo.com/pic.php?file=new+banner__2005-12-31_Unfortunate+Banner.jpg
ArmyOfMe Exotic Dancers Club Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2007.04.10 12:18:00 - [9] Originally by: Escaped Convict Originally by: Kylania Wouldn't be too stealthy if they couldn't! so the stealth bombers of RL arnt stealth bombers as they dont cloack my guess is that if todays stealth bombers could cloak they would
Belloc Slunv Amarr CCCP INC	Posted - 2007.04.10 12:19:00 - [10] Edited by: Belloc Slunv on 10/04/2007 12:17:31 Edited by: Belloc Slunv on 10/04/2007 12:16:47 Edited by: Belloc Slunv on 10/04/2007 12:16:02 Originally by: Escaped Convict yes cloacking stops you from being seen that works great for COVERTOPS and spying but it sucks for combat as you cant use it once the fight has started unlike in RL a stealth bomber is hard to hit whether on not it has been spooted I don't know any spies that have cloaking devices either. To stay on topic, however, I think the phasing module makes the ship a bit too easy to blow up. At least with the cloak you can sit in a spot and choose your prey if/when it comes about. EDITS: Spelling FTW x2
Escaped Convict	Posted - 2007.04.10 12:21:00 - [11] Originally by: ArmyOfMe Originally by: Escaped Convict Originally by: Kylania Wouldn't be too stealthy if they couldn't! so the stealth bombers of RL arnt stealth bombers as they dont cloack my guess is that if todays stealth bombers could cloak they would yes they might but if they used a cloack that had the same machanics as the EVE cloack which is what we are talking about then it woulnd be able to drop its bomb cloacked and when it uncloacked it would be shot down so meybe they would stick to what they have http://www.badongo.com/pic.php?file=new+banner__2005-12-31_Unfortunate+Banner.jpg
Escaped Convict	Posted - 2007.04.10 12:24:00 - [12] Originally by: Belloc Slunv Originally by: Escaped Convict Originally by: Kylania Wouldn't be too stealthy if they couldn't! so the stealth bombers of RL arnt stealth bombers as they dont cloack The Stealth Bombers of today don't have a phasing module to bring them in phase and out of phase. They're specificly designed to reflect RF radiation at odd angles to minimize radar returns from the aircraft. They are also designed to absorb said RF radiation, and mitigate heat coming out of the exhaust. my idea is a modual that emulates that same machanics in eve and dose it in the scifi theme cal it a INFRED ABSOBTON/DEFRACTION paint job modual if you want? http://www.badongo.com/pic.php?file=new+banner__2005-12-31_Unfortunate+Banner.jpg
Pressure Line Amarr Extreme Pressure Developments	Posted - 2007.04.10 13:16:00 - [13] Originally by: Escaped Convict Originally by: ArmyOfMe Originally by: Escaped Convict Originally by: Kylania Wouldn't be too stealthy if they couldn't! so the stealth bombers of RL arnt stealth bombers as they dont cloack my guess is that if todays stealth bombers could cloak they would yes they might but if they used a cloack that had the same machanics as the EVE cloack which is what we are talking about then it woulnd be able to drop its bomb cloacked and when it uncloacked it would be shot down so meybe they would stick to what they have more to the point, if it dropped a bomb/fired a missile then cloaked the bomb/missile would dissappear in midair. which tbh would be more annoying. "yes sir. we dropped on the target pre-school then recloaked. but then the bomb dissappeared." yeah. that'd be real damned useful.
Gandanga	Posted - 2007.04.10 14:08:00 - [14] `why do stealth bombers cloak?` umm if couldn`t cloak they would just be called bombers ?
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.10 14:12:00 - [15] Stealth bombers are toss away ships....You can get maybe if your lucky three cycles of cruise missles on the way before you go down in flames. Enough to take down your targets shields maybe. BUT!!! They make damn good 'Ore thief busters'!!! Thats right station a cloaked one above your corp mining op and your sure to have some fun with it. OR dont fit cruise missle, but small nos, and webbies. Good for sneaking up to sombody and pinning him down till big guns come running. Basic stealth tactics require at least 6 of these ships to take down one target. They are not ment to operate solo. Fly in groups/flights/squdrons...and they are one hell of a nasty force to deal with. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
acompton Gallente Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.04.10 14:24:00 - [16] Originally by: Jita Alt I'm no expert or anything but isn't one of the main reasons today's stealth bombers don't cloak because they haven't actually invented cloaks yet? Win!
Nai Ling Amarr Middle Finger Technology Ghosts Syndicate	Posted - 2007.04.10 18:23:00 - [17] My brain hurts from reading this thread. What part of SCIENCE FICTION don't you understand? The Science? Or the Fiction? This is a Science Fiction game. What exists or doesn't exist in real life does not matter. The two do not corelate! Geez. _______________________________________________
Angellyne	Posted - 2007.04.10 18:31:00 - [18] Don't think modern stealth bomber; think Klingon Bird of Prey.
PostWithYourMain Main Corporation	Posted - 2007.04.10 18:32:00 - [19] I lol'd at almost every reply to this thread. "they are just hard to hit/lock/find" - It's called an interceptor.
Ralara Caldari Lilandri Foundation	Posted - 2007.04.10 18:37:00 - [20] I'd prefer it if they could fit some sort of... bomb. Kind of like a citadel torpedo, (or heck, a rage torpedo) but doesn't have the problems with hitting moving / small targets. I'm a corp thief. And remember, I only do it because I like your robot.
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.04.10 18:40:00 - [21] Posts like this, about the uselessness of stealth bombers, always makes me smile...
Nai Ling Amarr Middle Finger Technology Ghosts Syndicate	Posted - 2007.04.10 19:00:00 - [22] Originally by: Ranger 1 Posts like this, about the uselessness of stealth bombers, always makes me smile... Threads like this make me think I've got blood oozing from my ears. People commenting on ships they've: a) never flown b) got ganked by c) have no clue how to properly fly d) they're "Dee dee dee." _______________________________________________
Gun Hog Caldari Ardent Industrial Astral Wolves	Posted - 2007.04.10 19:08:00 - [23] From the little I have heard about RL stealth bombers, the aircraft has to open a weapon bay in order to attack. This would increase its radar signature, as well as when a missile is fired or bomb dropped. Anti-missile ordinance and other sensor systems would be alerted to its presence (probably too late). This is the same way that EVE stealth bombers work. They are not seen until they attack. Just as RL bombers have to risk attack by opening weapon bays, EVE bombers risk attack by decloaking. *My knowledge of stealh bombers may be out of date and therefore no longer accurate. My point however remains valid. ------------------------------------------ Drones are your friends! Fight for them!
Dahak2150 Chaos Monkeys	Posted - 2007.04.10 19:14:00 - [24] Because there's no such thing as "stealthy" in eve. You can see it or you can't. They need to be in the second category to be able to survive at all. ---------------- If you're on IE, pretend this is transparent while you get a browser that supports .png.
Thread Winner Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.04.10 19:16:00 - [25] Originally by: Jita Alt I'm no expert or anything but isn't one of the main reasons today's stealth bombers don't cloak because they haven't actually invented cloaks yet? yeah thats right there are no cloaking devices yes thats what you think mwahahahaha Fight against log off tactics to protect your space from isk farmers!
Max Hardcase Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.04.10 19:20:00 - [26] Edited by: Max Hardcase on 10/04/2007 19:17:54 The way you make it sounds you want the SB cloaks to reduce sig res to 1 or something like that while the cloak is active . Unable to activate modules till its ready to attack. This could work since it would make attacking Stealth bombers nigh on impossible.
Motorcycle Emptiness Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.04.10 19:32:00 - [27] Originally by: Max Hardcase Edited by: Max Hardcase on 10/04/2007 19:17:54 The way you make it sounds you want the SB cloaks to reduce sig res to 1 or something like that while the cloak is active . Unable to activate modules till its ready to attack. This could work since it would make attacking Stealth bombers nigh on impossible. but you would be able to see it... not too stealthy eh :P this thread is silly, the entire idea of stealth is that you can't 'see' it coming for ya, not being unable to lock it, see interceptors for that kinda jazz. Flashing White Box (rank 1)
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.10 19:38:00 - [28] Originally by: Gun Hog From the little I have heard about RL stealth bombers, the aircraft has to open a weapon bay in order to attack. This would increase its radar signature, as well as when a missile is fired or bomb dropped. Anti-missile ordinance and other sensor systems would be alerted to its presence (probably too late). This is the same way that EVE stealth bombers work. They are not seen until they attack. Just as RL bombers have to risk attack by opening weapon bays, EVE bombers risk attack by decloaking. My knowledge of stealh bombers may be out of date and therefore no longer accurate. My point however remains valid. No your right, the ordenance is carried inside the craft to hide it from radar. But the amount of time when the door is open to eject the ordenance is a 'blink of an eye'. Not to mention X10 signature of a sparrow is still a small target to see. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.10 19:42:00 - [29] Stealth is not all that impossible to defeat...if you got the money...and lots of syncronized radar sites to play with. There is nothing wrong with current stealth bombers in the game...just somthing wrong with their pilots. Think tactics....think gangs...think interceptor while flying them. They are one of the funnest ships to fly in game IMHO. Done right and your target will be changing his shorts. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Feng Schui Minmatar The Ninja Coalition Phobos Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.10 21:21:00 - [30] RL Cloaking incoming! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/5016068.stm My opinion is my own, not of my corp or my alliance. If you have problems, we can have a "who can do L4 missions faster" duel >:)
Blue Pixie	Posted - 2007.04.10 21:25:00 - [31] Originally by: Escaped Convict is this a good idea? No.
JourneymanDave devastation mining inc	Posted - 2007.04.10 21:30:00 - [32] Originally by: Jita Alt I'm no expert or anything but isn't one of the main reasons today's stealth bombers don't cloak because they haven't actually invented cloaks yet? Oh, how I do love a grand-slam...
MeestaPenni Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.10 21:49:00 - [33] Sneak around all you want to, but once you're "spooted"..... Games over....
Passcal Darksaber Technologies FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.11 11:13:00 - [34] Stealth bombers are awesome ships when flown correctly. I fly mine with 2 other SB pilots and it's a great laugh, true we don't get too many kills but it can make an entire system of hostiles stop making ISK very quickly by just being there. Flying a SB is like playing chess, you have to think tactically....or is it more like fishing, with a lot of waiting around. Worst Signature EVAAAARRR!!
Sascha Gemini Caldari Gemini Labs	Posted - 2007.04.11 13:05:00 - [35] I think the only thing i would change about stealth bombers is allow them to recover from decloaking faster. Covert ops can warp while cloaked which is their special ability, but i think it would be nice to stealth bombers able to target and attack alot sooner after they decloak, thus making them a more viable combat ship. You still may need a few of them together to be effective but i think it would turn bombers into a worthwhile asset rather than a waste of isk. No silly phase drive required.
Bistot Kid The First Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.04.11 13:14:00 - [36] Originally by: Escaped Convict my idea is a modual that emulates that same machanics in eve and dose it in the scifi theme cal it a INFRED ABSOBTON/DEFRACTION paint job modual if you want? I think you misspelled "Escaped Lunatic" when you set up your char.
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2007.04.11 13:39:00 - [37] Only thing stealth bombers need is the cov ops cloak. ------------------- Say What?
Mikal Drey Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.11 14:03:00 - [38] hey hey had some fun last night in my hound. . . . certainly the first time i used it pretty much as intended. and i really had to think on my feet. they do need tweekingbut too much will ovepower it. im not sure where CCP want to go with them but there has been some interesting ideas about that should get a look see. Tux has already mentioned that they have thought about some stealth love but nothing has hit sisi yet :(( justa small note of interest for you bomber pilots out there : you get a free shot if you think outside the box
Auron Shadowbane	Posted - 2007.04.11 14:16:00 - [39] allow their missiles to hit even after they recloaked and allow them to immediatelly recloak after they fired. so they can survive and fire their payloads if they have a takler or dumb victim. would they be hard to kill? definatelly! would they be overpowered? as overpowred as a ceptor that can zoom around at 3-6km/s. if a ceptor gets within 10km it is dead. if a bomber gets locked he is dead too!
Isean Raddick Explorations NxT LeveL	Posted - 2007.04.11 15:42:00 - [40] I love bomber threads. All the negative replies or stupid comments come from people who dont or cant fly them. If they can, they dont fly them to their full potential. All the positive comments (few and far between) come from people who enjoy them. The biggest concept to grasp as soon as you step in a bomber is that it is unlike any other ship. It has its own unique tactics. Gank ships get in close and hit hard. Snipers stay far away. Nos boats have thier tactics. Drone boats have theirs....Same with bombers. So stop trying to fly it like a different kind of ship. Its not a tanker, nosboat, droneboat, intercepter or whatever. Its not even like any other cov ops vessel. Fly it like a bomber and youll be fine I have had the same bomber for about 2 months, and its my favorite ship to fly around in (my only complait is the short range it can warp, about 45AU at a time max). It started out as a throw away ship cuz everyone said it blew. Its now ended up all tech 2 and worth bout 140 million. Ive got about 40 kills on the board, solo and gang. And I have never been ONCE locked. You fly it to its fullest its just as ood as any other ship. Bombers are supposed to be getting a new weapon, thats cool. it just means new tactics to apply to the ship, its not like the ship will change. Theres nothing broken with the bombers, it just takes a certain mindset to fly it right. Now if people insist on a change to bombers...I would advise the capabilities to mount Siege launchers as well...so a bomber could choose cruises with small exp radii for frigates...and torps with small ep radii for cruisers and such...but maybe the "bomb" will be enough. Fly them right, and I dare you to not have fun
Loraen	Posted - 2007.04.11 18:30:00 - [41] With all the real-world stealth bomber analogies, how about this simple idea: Add a module with appropriately heavy fitting requirements that can only be fit on CovOps ships. The effect of this module would be that your ship does not appear on the overview list. You can still be manually spotted and targeted, or autotargeted back as you start locking your prey. You could also appear on your target's overview, so they can manually target from there if they have the auto off. Only real problem I see with such a module is larger battles. There's plenty of stuff to target so not appearing on the overview would immensely prolong the life expectancy of stealth bombers. Not sure if it would make them TOO good or not. Another analogy-based idea would be to add a new launcher for bombs. Bombs would have such volume that you could only fit one in the launcher and none in your cargo. Could be fired like a torpedo but on impact would cause a mini-DD. Blast radius equaling a (medium?) smartbomb and damage around x missiles (about a volley or two perhaps).
Mr Mozzie Caldari	Posted - 2007.04.11 22:28:00 - [42] Originally by: Gun Hog From the little I have heard about RL stealth bombers, the aircraft has to open a weapon bay in order to attack. This would increase its radar signature, as well as when a missile is fired or bomb dropped. Anti-missile ordinance and other sensor systems would be alerted to its presence (probably too late). When they open their bays it massively increases their radar signature. However this does not pose much of a problem because they keep the bays open for the shortest time possible. This gives the enemy a snapshot of the aircraft's location which the aircraft is flying away from at 400-500kts. By the time they can react, it is miles away.
Liliane Woodhead	Posted - 2007.04.12 04:32:00 - [43] Again people compare real and eve world. Stop this .... or WE ARE DOOOOOOOOOOMED
Barbarellas Daughter Lonely Barbarella	Posted - 2007.04.12 04:50:00 - [44] this thread delivers! on topic: RL stealth bombers hide from radar, EVE SB hide from overview, so its pretty the same.
Steph Wing Gallente The Graduates Ivy League	Posted - 2007.04.12 04:59:00 - [45] Two things. 1: It was my understanding that stealth bombers were more akin to "the U-boats of EVE" than RL stealth bombers. 2: Learn to spell "cloak", kthx. About TGRAD
Dallenn Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.12 17:32:00 - [46] Originally by: Passcal entire system of hostiles stop making ISK very quickly by just being there. Flying a SB is like playing chess, you have to think tactically....or is it more like fishing, with a lot of waiting around. So how is this different from Eve PvP in general? - It seems the bombers would need some extra edge to be considered viable PvP ships. This couldn't be covops cloaks - if they had all the covops ability plus their current combat/special abilities, they would be just a bit too overpowered and nobody would fly the real covops any more. A lock/reactivation bonus after decloaking could go a long way, together with just a few regular balance adjustments. Roleplaying in Eve
Dallenn Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.17 22:50:00 - [47] Originally by: Isean Now if people insist on a change to bombers...I would advise the capabilities to mount Siege launchers as well...so a bomber could choose cruises with small exp radii for frigates...and torps with small ep radii for cruisers and such...but maybe the "bomb" will be enough. Fly them right, and I dare you to not have fun That could be a heavy stealth bomber - a tier 3 covops vessel, with more grid etc. so you have room to play around with the fittings. Roleplaying in Eve

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