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Khannea Sun-Tzu
Khannea SunTzu Investments
5
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Posted - 2016.12.21 10:47:05 -
[1] - Quote
I understand that the entirety of known space in eve is under 10.000 systems, and a sizable portion of that is wormholes. SPace linked with stargates comprises a region of "just over 100 light years" across. That's barely a speck in an actual average galaxy.
I propose that player run factions can, under extremely scarce and difficult circumstances, become able to use astrometric technologies to find a suitable natural conduit to a new region of space (inside and outside the known galaxy) and would become capable of creating a star gate to this new region of space. In essence, a large alliance collaborates, constructs a highly expensive "astrometric observatory" and scans.
The construction of these observatories should be linked to a scarce resource - so that the amount of scan attempts per set period is limited to one for the entirety of space. Such scans would be roughly directional, say, in a 35 degree arc which is decided by the creating faction.
This process is then processed by CCP games - CCP games notices the construction of an array, and waits when the array comes online. When the array then comes online, scan begins, CCP will have decided where the new system is to be discovered within that 35 degree (or so) arc (and from a few to tens of light years distant) , and the new system will be unlocked and almost immediately a star gate can be constructed.
The nature of these systems is up to CCP. They may be plain, vanilla systems. They may be very strange. They might very well be occupied. They may be worthless, or they may be completely void of planets. But also possible is that a unique resource, or some horrific danger can be located there. But equally likely such a new system might already have an old artefact gate that leads to another region, thereby unlocking totally new strategical connections.
Why?
Known space should gradually expand. It would be delightful is players would be able to "roughly" determine the direction of this expansion. With some clever planning factions might even be able to secure more elaborate "safezones" radiating away and outward from known space.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1097
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Posted - 2016.12.21 15:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Adding space to a game is a very large undertaking and requires a lot of dev that to be honest is needed for other things, so based on this I say no thank you.
Being able to "create" this space in a timely fashion once CCP "notices" that players have built a structure places an even more substantial burden on the limited dev resources that CCP has available so again I say -1.
In recent years CCP has been trying to minimize the impact the larger alliances and coalitions have on the game, as it is proposed this idea would serve to benefit those larger groups the most. Why would CCP want to undo a few years worth of work by adding this?
Probably my biggest concern here is the general affect on the game as a whole. While these things do give players more options in the long run, what we need are things that can attract and hold new players, ways to keep them in the game for more than a few months. |
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
379
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Posted - 2016.12.21 17:54:36 -
[3] - Quote
instead of addinf more "magical" systems to a galaxy that's already been mapped for almost 40k+ years (since we have no idea when explorers first came through the wormhole) we might as well be searching for a new galaxy, something you don't see in the vastness of space.
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5082
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Posted - 2016.12.21 19:33:16 -
[4] - Quote
IIRC New Eden is a star cluster rather than a true galaxy.
And why do you want to hand big groups a near impenetrable home? |
James Zimmer
D3RP Clan Elemental Tide
72
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Posted - 2016.12.21 22:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
I think that new systems that can't be accessed through either standard gates or constant wormhole connections would be fascinating and add a lot of depth to the game, especially if those systems were given unique and interesting properties, like an ice planet that was split in two that produces a lot of ice belts, or a lone, rogue planet drifting through the expanse of space.
That being said, I think a better way to implement that would be to create the systems, perhaps only a few at a time, and create some very subtle process to discover them, sort of like the discovery of Caroline's star. After you know it's there, there would need to be some way to pinpoint the location. Perhaps a scan module that has to be aimed within 1 degree of the system. Once you have the coordinate, you can use a jump drive to go to the location. This way the devs don't have a constant commitment to create more systems if that ends up being too much of a time sink or bad for the game.
I think a system like this would create a real sense of discovery for the explorer types, and add some strategic depth to the game. Do you keep your system a secret? Connect it to alliance space with a jump bridge? Use it as a capital staging system? The choice is up to you. |
Khannea Sun-Tzu
Khannea SunTzu Investments
5
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Posted - 2016.12.25 09:51:58 -
[6] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:IIRC New Eden is a star cluster rather than a true galaxy.
And why do you want to hand big groups a near impenetrable home?
CCP is the single group that would create new systems. There's several ways CCP can **** with the discovery of new systems
* there might be agruesome faction in these systems that would spread to nearby systems * a newly discovered system might easily unlock a backdoor to another region, and that might be highly undesirable * there is no reason new systems would be especially valuable. A large number of stars in the galaxy have no planets due to tidal stripping.
I am not interested in player power, gameplay. I am interested primarily in storytelling and world building. I like interesting stories. Eve is a universe, not some boardgame.
Oh and let me repeat - the entire region that comprises eve is only 100-125 light years across. It is not a galaxy. A galaxy is "about" 50 million times bigger. The milkyway has 500 billion stars. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5098
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Posted - 2016.12.25 12:16:12 -
[7] - Quote
Khannea Sun-Tzu wrote:Danika Princip wrote:IIRC New Eden is a star cluster rather than a true galaxy.
And why do you want to hand big groups a near impenetrable home? CCP is the single group that would create new systems. There's several ways CCP can **** with the discovery of new systems * there might be agruesome faction in these systems that would spread to nearby systems * a newly discovered system might easily unlock a backdoor to another region, and that might be highly undesirable * there is no reason new systems would be especially valuable. A large number of stars in the galaxy have no planets due to tidal stripping. I am not interested in player power, gameplay. I am interested primarily in storytelling and world building. I like interesting stories. Eve is a universe, not some boardgame. Oh and let me repeat - the entire region that comprises eve is only 100-125 light years across. It is not a galaxy. A galaxy is "about" 50 million times bigger. The milkyway has 500 billion stars.
Yes. Which is why I mentioned that new eden is a cluster. Like this one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messier_80
But regardless, if you allow us to build a stargate that becomes the only way in to a new region, that new region is going to be fortified by the people who built the gate, and good luck trying to dig an entrenched enemy out when there is literally one entry point.
To give an example, if my alliance got a region 10 light years away from Delve, where we live, then we have ourselves a pocket we cannot be evicted from. Where we can make isk and build supers in absolute safety because there's all of one way in and we have the numbers to hold that chokepoint against anything but the kind of force that kicked us out of the north, which would be much harder to bring to bear as we'd be out of jump range.
And if it gave us a backdoor into, say, Fade? we'd be laughing. Giving someone a backdoor only they can use is never going to be an undesirable thing.
Then again, if there's literally nothing in the systems then other than a couple of ECs for the super building thing, why would anyone even bother going there?
Also, you really can't add things for the sake of the story without considering the impact on gameplay. |
Khannea Sun-Tzu
Khannea SunTzu Investments
5
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Posted - 2016.12.25 15:06:45 -
[8] - Quote
Interesting
So on average how many systems has CCP added in the last year? How many systems have they added in years before that? Is there a URL where I can see which systems were added last?
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5098
|
Posted - 2016.12.25 16:37:34 -
[9] - Quote
What does that have to do with anything?
If you hand a group a place they can exist in total safety where they will be nigh impossible to dig out, what do you think they are going to do with it?
And if it also includes a back door into a hostile region, what do you think they are going to do with that?
Thera and the shattered wormholes were the last systems added. Which have nothing to do with your idea. Before that it was wormhole space in general, and before that it was the drone regions. |
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
305
|
Posted - 2016.12.25 17:26:34 -
[10] - Quote
Expanding the space of New Eden will generate new subscribers that would facilitate Dev's being hired to work exclusively on generating new systems and the means of getting Capsuleer's to the new systems to explore them using new types of technology such as inter-galaxy waypoint jump gates.
An Inter-Galaxy Waypoint Jump Gate is a gate that emits a faster than light speed signal from its beacon that allows the Jump Gate Construction Ship to lock onto the end point of the signal beam and then use the Jump Gate to jump or fold space to the location of the signal beam. The signal beam itself could be adjusted to emit its wavelength to a desired light year distance of one light year for example. The JGCS then jumps to the signal and begins construction of another Jump Gate. Since there would not be any local planets that would affect the placement of the Jump Gate, stations would be constructed around each Jump Gate to facilitate commerce trading and exploration of the region while a continuous network of Jump Gates were constructed into the unknown that finally reached another galaxy or rogue solar system.
The complaint of the larger empires being able to expand their empirical reign in the new regions is unfounded and lacking any real foundation of truth as the larger empires would fracture as groups broke away from them looking to settle and colonize the unknowns of space.
The real foundation in not expanding into unknown space is in fact to maintain the larger empires hold on New Eden by keeping the empires compartmentalized in New Eden.
The goal of any space based civilization is to ultimately expand its presence in as much space and time as possible so that Time and Creation will sense the presence of life in an area of space where Time and Creation would only otherwise see life less planets of mineral rich resources being pummeled by asteroids. |
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DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
305
|
Posted - 2016.12.25 17:29:51 -
[11] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:What does that have to do with anything?
If you hand a group a place they can exist in total safety where they will be nigh impossible to dig out, what do you think they are going to do with it?
And if it also includes a back door into a hostile region, what do you think they are going to do with that?
Thera and the shattered wormholes were the last systems added. Which have nothing to do with your idea. Before that it was wormhole space in general, and before that it was the drone regions.
Your comment sounds like the ancient history of the caveman who would huddle at the back of the dank and wet dark cave fearful of the light at the end of the tunnel. A tunnel that drops out of warp into a lush and volatile land filled with resources other than the smell of cavemen.
You sit in your cave and be content while everyone else hunts the anaconda that does not have any fear and will eventually find you shaking in your cave with no where to go. |
Leila Larphson
Interstellar Exploration Center
5
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Posted - 2016.12.25 19:56:21 -
[12] - Quote
Let us expand the cluster that is New Eden to become a Galaxy !
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
11236
|
Posted - 2016.12.25 21:01:19 -
[13] - Quote
Khannea Sun-Tzu wrote:I am not interested in player power, gameplay. I am interested primarily in storytelling and world building. I like interesting stories. Eve is a universe, not some boardgame. SImply because YOU do not care about the gameplay ramifications of your idea (or intend to cause any) it does mean that others do not or will not take advantage of them.
Because this is a multi-player, conflict driven game you cannot ignore the issues that people are pointing out here.
What you are proposing is a NPC farmer's "wetdream."
Quote:So on average how many systems has CCP added in the last year? How many systems have they added in years before that? Is there a URL where I can see which systems were added last? To my knowledge, the last time any systems were "added" was back in the Apocrypha expansion (see: 5000+ wormhole systems were added).
That was back in 2009.
But that is neither here nor there.
The point behind those systems was more than simply "world building" or exploration... it was... - to create a new "conflict point" between players - to create a truly unsecurable space that no one could really lay claim to
Unfortunately, players did effectively "claim" systems in wormhole space and now guard them jealously using some intricate tactics to keep interlopers out (which they are quite effective at).
Your idea will allow something similar, but on steroids.
Which will bolster and enhance the power of larger, richer organizations of players. Who will then "lock out" younger, poorer players.
How did you Veterans start?
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Leila Larphson
Interstellar Exploration Center
5
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Posted - 2016.12.26 15:55:04 -
[14] - Quote
This just in from one of our reporters:
"In recent days astronomers from all over New Eden have picked up faint electromagnetic radiation that appears to be eminating from another star cluster.
Preliminary analysis indicates these signals appear to be structured and may even be mathemetical, indicating a high probability that these signals are of intelligent design.
Scientists have been asked to work on upgrading the current scanning equipment to be able to further study these signals in an effort to determine if this is indeed the case.
Furthermore, there have also been reports of an unfamiliar kind of cosmic signature appearing here and there at about the same time these signals were first picked up. This in turn lead to rumors and speculation that these phenomenon might be linked to one another."
The Scope.
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Daugar Draaken
Mine 'N' Refine Goonswarm Federation
13
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Posted - 2017.01.02 11:43:03 -
[15] - Quote
Leila Larphson wrote:This just in from one of our reporters:
"In recent days astronomers from all over New Eden have picked up faint electromagnetic radiation that appears to be eminating from another star cluster.
Preliminary analysis indicates these signals appear to be structured and may even be mathemetical, indicating a high probability that these signals are of intelligent design.
Scientists have been asked to work on upgrading the current scanning equipment to be able to further study these signals in an effort to determine if this is indeed the case.
Furthermore, there have also been reports of an unfamiliar kind of cosmic signature appearing here and there at about the same time these signals were first picked up. This in turn has lead to rumors and speculation that these phenomenon might be linked to one another."
The Scope.
Nice. Finally someone that treats this game with a sense of wonder and adventure. I am kinda sick of all the spreadsheet aspergerites everywhere. Eve is a Dream. It may be a dark dream, but it' should still be a place of wonder and adventure, not some 6 dimensional chess. |
Daugar Draaken
Mine 'N' Refine Goonswarm Federation
13
|
Posted - 2017.01.02 11:45:21 -
[16] - Quote
DrysonBennington wrote:Danika Princip wrote:What does that have to do with anything?
If you hand a group a place they can exist in total safety where they will be nigh impossible to dig out, what do you think they are going to do with it?
And if it also includes a back door into a hostile region, what do you think they are going to do with that?
Thera and the shattered wormholes were the last systems added. Which have nothing to do with your idea. Before that it was wormhole space in general, and before that it was the drone regions. Your comment sounds like the ancient history of the caveman who would huddle at the back of the dank and wet dark cave fearful of the light at the end of the tunnel. A tunnel that drops out of warp into a lush and volatile land filled with resources other than the smell of cavemen. You sit in your cave and be content while everyone else hunts the anaconda that does not have any fear and will eventually find you shaking in your cave with no where to go.
Thank you. |
Daugar Draaken
Mine 'N' Refine Goonswarm Federation
13
|
Posted - 2017.01.02 11:49:49 -
[17] - Quote
Leila Larphson wrote:Let us expand the cluster that is New Eden to become a Galaxy !
New eden is just over 100 light years and a few thousand stars.
A galaxy is 100.000 light years and several hundred billion stars.
CCP could expand the game, if they had the balls, and add features, content, affordances, et.al. every year that would add new players. It doesn't all have to be pew. It doesn't all have to be cutthroat psychopathic competition. It can be a sense of wonder, adventure.
Imagine Eve Online still exists in 2029 and it then somehow succeeded in luring in ten times the current number of subscribers. Such a thing could easily happen as technological unemployment races towards all of us in the real world. People will need something to keep busy and Eve Online is perfectly situated to offer a lot of people a damn lot of meaning in their lives.
Optimism instead of defensiveness. CCP could learn from its own players. At least they are constantly aiming for expansion.
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Tabyll Altol
Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two
179
|
Posted - 2017.01.02 13:34:32 -
[18] - Quote
Khannea Sun-Tzu wrote:I understand that the entirety of known space in eve is under 10.000 systems, and a sizable portion of that is wormholes. SPace linked with stargates comprises a region of "just over 100 light years" across. That's barely a speck in an actual average galaxy.
I propose that player run factions can, under extremely scarce and difficult circumstances, become able to use astrometric technologies to find a suitable natural conduit to a new region of space (inside and outside the known galaxy) and would become capable of creating a star gate to this new region of space. In essence, a large alliance collaborates, constructs a highly expensive "astrometric observatory" and scans.
The construction of these observatories should be linked to a scarce resource - so that the amount of scan attempts per set period is limited to one for the entirety of space. Such scans would be roughly directional, say, in a 35 degree arc which is decided by the creating faction.
This process is then processed by CCP games - CCP games notices the construction of an array, and waits when the array comes online. When the array then comes online, scan begins, CCP will have decided where the new system is to be discovered within that 35 degree (or so) arc (and from a few to tens of light years distant) , and the new system will be unlocked and almost immediately a star gate can be constructed.
The nature of these systems is up to CCP. They may be plain, vanilla systems. They may be very strange. They might very well be occupied. They may be worthless, or they may be completely void of planets. But also possible is that a unique resource, or some horrific danger can be located there. But equally likely such a new system might already have an old artefact gate that leads to another region, thereby unlocking totally new strategical connections.
Why?
Known space should gradually expand. It would be delightful is players would be able to "roughly" determine the direction of this expansion. With some clever planning factions might even be able to secure more elaborate "safezones" radiating away and outward from known space.
Lot-¦s of space is emty or only 1-2 players are inside those systems. If you want to explore go to wormholes.
Your idea would be a huge effort for CCP and bring little to nothing to the game. We do not need more space. Eve is for the current amount of player huge enough.
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