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Bring Back Old School Politics.

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Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.04.13 17:36:00 - [31] Its the cold war of eve. Pick a side, or one will be picked for you.
Amarr CEO Amarr adeptus gattacus Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.04.13 17:45:00 - [32] This kind of reminded me why i stoped making eve-o posts about a year ago. So untill next year. Fly Safe. One Family.....One Goal.....One Future Adeptus Gattacus the Way Forward! Website
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.04.13 17:56:00 - [33] Well, in theory it's a nice concept. In practice, it's difficult to maintain. If the two blues get into a major conflict with each other, eventually one side will accuse the neutral one of being biased one way or another, or complain about them not helping. Bad blood starts and eventually reaches a point where the neutrality is no longer beneficial to maintain, and the 3rd party gets sucked in. Also, the internal politics of the neutral corp can play a big role in swaying the leaders to back one side over the other. If a majority of the memberbase prefers one side over the other, it will eventually find its way out and steer the 3rd party in that direction. -------------------------------------
Zimi Vlasic F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.04.13 18:03:00 - [34] Originally by: NATMav Well, in theory it's a nice concept. In practice, it's difficult to maintain. If the two blues get into a major conflict with each other, eventually one side will accuse the neutral one of being biased one way or another, or complain about them not helping. Bad blood starts and eventually reaches a point where the neutrality is no longer beneficial to maintain, and the 3rd party gets sucked in. Also, the internal politics of the neutral corp can play a big role in swaying the leaders to back one side over the other. If a majority of the memberbase prefers one side over the other, it will eventually find its way out and steer the 3rd party in that direction. And to add to this, there will also be bonds between some alliances that just can't be broken, barring some major catastrophy, that can dictate who's side a 3rd party jumps onto. Find Roid, Examine, and Excavate Explorer Proud member of the Customer Service Coalition.
Stamm Amarr Three Holdings Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.04.13 18:17:00 - [35] RULE have neighbours, Oxide, we get on well with them. Some gypsy squatters arrive, and set up in Oxides back garden, and declare it's their territory. RULE come round and help Oxide evict them. Galaxian Recruitment Info
Louis DelaBlanche Cosmic Odyssey YouWhat	Posted - 2007.04.13 18:18:00 - [36] If you dont pledge support for one side you risk losing the support of both. But one should also appreciate that unless asked, its often a good idea not to meddle in other ppls affairs. So pledging support is one thing, getting actively involved is another.
Kilya Deckard Inc Curse Coalition	Posted - 2007.04.13 18:27:00 - [37] Edited by: Kilya on 13/04/2007 18:23:46 Originally by: Amarr CEO Lets say we have 3 Alliances. A1 A2 and A3 A1 is blue with both A2 and A3 But A2 is Red with A3 There for the oldschool way would be that A1 would remain neutral in this kind of situation and not help either side. Thats the old way. These days you see a situation where A1 is forced to choose to make A2 or A3 Red?? Although cute, its sadly flawed......ask ISS There is a reason you call it 'The old way' and thats because its the OLD way, the new way came along because the old one dont work to well anymore.
Seleiah Oxide Holdings O X I D E	Posted - 2007.04.13 18:38:00 - [38] This thing Amarr CEO has described is the situation they have created by them selves. Adga and SEPR joined Oxide, on good trust of another ex-corp of Oxide (Reunited). Plans were obviously being made for quite some time now as things evolve here by the minute. Clearly this was all carefully planned out. No impulsive acts, all planned. The 3 named corporations left oxide, regrouped, napped a well known hostile in the area and now saying they want to claim Oxide space. They have 'other future plans' as well i will not mention for the moment. We respect their choice to play the game the way they want to, but Oxide will not give up it's space that easily. This is official Oxide statement.
Trinity Faetal Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.04.13 18:38:00 - [39] Edited by: Trinity Faetal on 13/04/2007 18:35:54 Originally by: Amarr CEO Originally by: Horza Otho Originally by: Amarr CEO Originally by: Horza Otho If your blue to someone, you've picked your side. Would you be best freinds with someone yet not help him when hes gettin the ** kicked out of him? If hes getting owned by another friend you stay out of it. I'm trying to comeup with a reply to that but its so baffeling why someone would type that. Let me try painting another picture for you Your parents are fighting. You dont choose a side cause neither of them are fighting with you, nore do they show any hostility toward you. You just stay out of the way. That clearer? if i was the dad, i'd take out the kids first then go after the mom, thats pretty common sense and maybe not a good example when u compare eve politics to your parents. nobody wants to sit on the sidelines watching their parent get beat up knowing they might/will be next. thats why u pick a side and commit to it. -- Black Holed Sun!, won't you come! and wash away the rain.**
Zimi Vlasic F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.04.13 18:55:00 - [40] Originally by: Seleiah This thing Amarr CEO has described is the situation they have created by them selves. Adga and SEPR joined Oxide, on good trust of another ex-corp of Oxide (Reunited). Plans were obviously being made for quite some time now as things evolve here by the minute. Clearly this was all carefully planned out. No impulsive acts, all planned. The 3 named corporations left oxide, regrouped, napped a well known hostile in the area and now saying they want to claim Oxide space. They have 'other future plans' as well i will not mention for the moment. We respect their choice to play the game the way they want to, but Oxide will not give up it's space that easily. This is official Oxide statement. Well if that's the case, then I think the OP is a tard for failing to mention the whole "trying to claim someone else's space" thing. Gee I wonder why you were set hostile! Make it hurt, Oxide. Find Roid, Examine, and Excavate Explorer Proud member of the Customer Service Coalition.

Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.04.13 18:56:00 - [41] Originally by: Seleiah ....napped a well known hostile in the area... No they didn't. Originally by: Benglada And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
Red Gabba Use Of Weapons	Posted - 2007.04.13 20:16:00 - [42] Eve politics are so basic and playground like it makes me laugh when people say there complicated, a Full alliance would include military support for your allies, however there is so many other deals that alliances could make, like trade deals and so forth. for example a friendly alliance that has not entered the agreement with a military pack can choose not to support any military to the campaign,this would not be in violation of there agreement. there can also be agreements regarding who is the aggressor in any war, for example a defence pack like NATO. Eve politics could be complicated but sadly there simply not. CEO-Use of Weapons
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.04.13 21:24:00 - [43] My diplomacy: "Which color's 'blue,' again?" Life's more fun when your out of NAPland, doesn't matter who's got the NAPs going ;) Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY Down with alts! One character per account per IP!
Adeptus mecanicus The Flaming Sideburn's Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.04.13 21:32:00 - [44] NBSI....plain and simple. saves us from the red tape
Redbad Minmatar Be Inspired Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.13 21:33:00 - [45] Edited by: Redbad on 13/04/2007 21:30:42 Politics are only means to get a message or viewpoint across in a civilized manner or exchange information between parties. Even at war politics play a part for communication between warring parties, as most of the times there is need of a form of communication other then the singlesided messages their guns might bring. I agree with you that more neutral parties can play an important part to get a message across without prejudice against the messenger, but if we are talking old school politics, it is proven method to speak to smaller allies of the "enemy" first before going in chat with your your direct opponent leaders. If you set rules beforehand you will loose flexibility and even possibilities for the diplomats to get messages accross. Not good at all. join us today!
Rudy Metallo G.H.O.S.T	Posted - 2007.04.14 01:20:00 - [46] Do that and you're likely to be Decced by both alliances and then its a three way lovefest. Say what?
Darknesss D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.04.14 01:27:00 - [47] They hadent actually napped us.
Duke North Minmatar The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.04.14 01:32:00 - [48] So typical Amarr CEO set everything to red insteed and kill everything much easier and no ff bull he is blu to us ****:-(( go full monty and just kill stuff and if you dont like it go to ff empire and mne veld ffs Performing the ancient and noble art of killing eachothers.
Sandslinger	Posted - 2007.04.14 01:43:00 - [49] I blame Bush's your with us or against us policy of recent years for the reflected change in eve politics
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.04.14 01:50:00 - [50] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Its the cold war of eve. Pick a side, or one will be picked for you. doesn't seem very cold to me? *cold war - a state of political conflict using means short of armed warfare* i think we have something more along the lines of... *hot war - actual fighting*

Graalum Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.04.14 01:55:00 - [51] Originally by: Gutsani He's right though "if you want us blue you have to be blue to all of these <list of 150 corporations>" ^^^
patteSatan Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.04.14 02:03:00 - [52] Originally by: Louis DelaBlanche If you dont pledge support for one side you risk losing the support of both. But one should also appreciate that unless asked, its often a good idea not to meddle in other ppls affairs. So pledging support is one thing, getting actively involved is another. Thats the best thing I have seen written here for months <br> ...you women are creepy, but amusing as hell.
Rabb Darktide Independent Fleet O X I D E	Posted - 2007.04.14 04:04:00 - [53] I guess I should start out by saying that my comments are my own and should not be taken as the offical position of Oxide or its allies. The impression I am getting, after reading your post Amarr is that you are really after is simpler politics. There is nothing "old" about it, and nothing new about the complex relationships that exist now. Unfortunately, you have seriously misjudged the area you are residing in and the relationships that have formed over the several months that the area has been available, as well as the motivations of a lot of the people who live in the area. Your example in the original post might be workable if the conflict is far from you, however, you cannot maintain two fueding alliances as blue when you are right in the middle of the battleground. At the same time, an alliance cannot come into an area such as ours and try to agress one or two individual alliances without stirring up the hornet's nest. Originally by: Amarr CEO All i ask that alliances maybe think about there own standings, and not to care about other alliances. If its not your alliance there standings ARE NONE OF YOUR CONCERN. Changing you standings to benifit another alliance only makes you a slave to that alliance. Imagine how the real world would be, right now, if nations lived by such a policy. Eve may be a game, but it is one with many real world parallels - one of which being a complex system of diplomacy and relationships. Assisting your friends does not make you a slave to that friend, rather, it makes you a friend. Originally by: Amarr CEO In an Ideal world A1 should have sat back and see who lived. You may watch a friend die but atlease you know you have a stronger friend closer. Have you? Or have you made stronger one who would come for you and your space next? One has to wonder how the history of the real world would turned out had Neville Chamberlian not "napped" Germany in 1938. Why do I use that parallel? Simply because, while you were in Oxide, you and your group's policies in regards to Triumvirte were so very similar. Had they been allowed to continue, I promise you the results would have been the same. You may be friends with Triumvarite now, but mark my words, as soon as they have no further use for you, you will find yourself red. Originally by: Amarr CEO If hes getting owned by another friend you stay out of it. Such a policy, ultimately, Amarr, will result in you having no friends. To be honest, with such an outlook, you deserve no friends. Originally by: Stamm RULE have neighbours, Oxide, we get on well with them. Some gypsy squatters arrive, and set up in Oxides back garden, and declare it's their territory. RULE come round and help Oxide evict them. Your help, and the help of all of the other allainces that have come to Oxide's aid is so very much appreciated. Originally by: Darknesss They hadent actually napped us. Well, since you are, by their own admission, blue to them, if they aren't in your Nap list, they must be in the Friends list. As such, it seems that Praesidium Libertatis, for all of its rhetoric, could indeed be considered a "pet" of Triumvirate. I guess the question for you Amarr, is, given your relationship with Triumvirate, should another of your friends decide to attack Tri, would you sit on the sidelines? If your answer is yes, how long do you think that would be tolerated by Tri? ---- Rabb Darktide Fleet Admiral (CEO) / O X I D E High Council Independent Fleet [INDF] INDF Recruitment
Edo Kael Caldari Reunited Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.04.14 07:48:00 - [54] I really like this part.. Now all the supposed facts come out. Facts thats are not there, nor ever have been. Here are some of my facts that should just about sum up what happened in the last 2 weeks. - A few oxide members made diplo work go wrong with big consequences for the alliance. do not ever try to deny this one! - The atmosphere inside the alliance got even worse (finger pointing) for no reason at all. Remember Rabb? think you did most of that talking... - 3 corp think they dont need this nonsense and have a simple plan. a small piece of space they were allready living but as a new alliance and create their own future. (just over a week ago) - We, the new alliance, get no chance whatsoever from several bigger neighbours (alliances) to explain what happened. Instead they jump into the fight and asume? that old oxide is the same they dealt with all along.... Our diplomacy went in overdrive to keep things calm..... and failed... we are an excuse to do some pew pew! - OUR POS is under attack from 6 alliances.. it gets destroyed (small 1 with 3 guns) - OUR Large POS is to go down... we're with our backs to the wall... things move rapidly from there, will all be found in a battlereport as soon as we have that time. what is nice to mention is that for now the POS that was to die also is still doing its job and system sovereignty still says PRAESIDIUM LIBERTATIS! and not oxide :) This has always been a struggle to stay in control from the old oxide leadership and its the same they have as when they lived in FADE. carebear and resident. We will live in that part of 'oxide' space, it is ours and not yours, never has been never will be. Oxide made this choice, we reached out they bit the hand. no talks possible.... So yes oxide see what the world thinks of this little internal struggle and the fact that you got them to fight for you... and die for you XD 92 ships destroyed in the last hour in 6-1..... "Life is lesson, you learn it when youre through!"
Ashemi Darkhold Caldari Eastern Heritage O X I D E	Posted - 2007.04.14 08:41:00 - [55] Originally by: Edo Kael - A few oxide members made diplo work go wrong with big consequences for the alliance. do not ever try to deny this one! - The atmosphere inside the alliance got even worse (finger pointing) for no reason at all. I dont know, maybe thats because you have OXIDE NAP tri without warning to anyone in leadership, and just basically say "they are blue, there is a good reason for this, maybe we'll explain later." All of our long standing friends inside and outside the alliance go nuts, as they should, and you tell us it wasnt a mistake. Funny, becuase it sure was. You wanted to be friends with Tri, and no one else in the regions does, simple. If you wonder why so many alliances come to our aid it becuase perhaps you dont understand loyalty or politics. We are loyal to our allies and always will be. And one day soon we will fight for them, and die for them, as they have for us. Thats what friends do. ------ CEO -EH Corp Oxide
Rabb Darktide Independent Fleet O X I D E	Posted - 2007.04.14 09:16:00 - [56] Originally by: Edo Kael - A few oxide members made diplo work go wrong with big consequences for the alliance. do not ever try to deny this one! Are you refering to the few Oxide members, namely Reunited, ADGA and Serenity Prime that attempted to NAP Triumvirate - and as a result damaged relations will all other neigboring alliances (especially relations with Kith of Venal that took, literally, months to negociate)? Originally by: Edo Kael - The atmosphere inside the alliance got even worse (finger pointing) for no reason at all. Remember Rabb? think you did most of that talking... If you will recall Edo, I said in our last HC meeting that we should drop it and move on. After that YOU decided to send an inflamatory alliance mail about how "carebears" sabatoged your plans. Sorry Edo, but I am not going to stand by while the majortiy of Oxide, who didn't want to be Tri's puppet and mining slaves, are flamed for feeling they way they feel. Oxide exists to serve the membership as a whole, not the agenda of you and your two friends. Nor was I the one who was threatening people for speaking their mind and bragging about "destroying the allaince" - that was your friend Amarr CEO. As a leader of the alliance, Edo, your job was to put an end to such threats, not point the finger at the one calling on you to do so. Originally by: Edo Kael - 3 corp think they dont need this nonsense and have a simple plan. a small piece of space they were allready living but as a new alliance and create their own future. (just over a week ago) You mean the systems that your "appointee" ordered existing Oxide corps to vacate to make way for ADGA and SEPR when they came into Oxide? Originally by: Edo Kael - We, the new alliance, get no chance whatsoever from several bigger neighbours (alliances) to explain what happened. Instead they jump into the fight and asume? that old oxide is the same they dealt with all along.... Our diplomacy went in overdrive to keep things calm..... and failed... we are an excuse to do some pew pew! Edo, I think, my friend, that you are reaping the results of the diplomacy you pursued while in Oxide. You are napped to an alliance that are actively engaged in combat with the rest of us, do you think anyone is going to greet your presance in the middle of the region with cheerfulness? Originally by: Edo Kael This has always been a struggle to stay in control from the old oxide leadership and its the same they have as when they lived in FADE. carebear and resident. So are we carebears for not wanting to nap the local enemy pvp alliance, or are we carebears who were looking for "an excuse to do some pew pew!"? Your own statements contradict yourself. This is not a struggle for the old command to stay in control Edo. The control rests now, and always has rested, with the MEMBERS of the alliance. We are democratic in nature, and will remain so, despite the attempts you and yours made that change. Originally by: Edo Kael We will live in that part of 'oxide' space, it is ours and not yours, never has been never will be. Honestly Edo, since Reunited was the last Oxide corp to show up in our space, prefering to live in D2 space as residents, and since Reunited pilots, after coming into the area, spend most of their time in Venal, which is not Oxide space, when exactally were you planning on living in the part of Oxide that you want to claim? To assert some sort of "squatter's rights" it helps if you are actually a squatter. Originally by: Edo Kael Oxide made this choice, we reached out they bit the hand. no talks possible Reached out the hand? ADGA members were boasting and making threats towards us before they, and you, even left Oxide. Should we assume you are friendly because you say you are or should we base our assumptions on your actions? In our position, Edo, how would you have responded? Enough with the forum drama. I really don't want to have a personal conflict with you. Convo me ingame plz. ---- Rabb Darktide Fleet Admiral (CEO) / O X I D E High Council Independent Fleet [INDF] INDF Recruitment
Bienurdau Hywoaf Minmatar Matari Holo News Network	Posted - 2007.04.14 09:22:00 - [57] In my idea Treaties you can see where I made treaties for this effect. Its a much better system with more flexibility than currently allowed under the standings we have now. The link in my sig goes to that idea. Idea: Treaties Idea: Jump Rigs
Rabb Darktide Independent Fleet O X I D E	Posted - 2007.04.14 09:26:00 - [58] Really, you don't need game mechaincs to implement a treaty. You just need to put an agreement in writing and have both parties indicate a signature. ---- Rabb Darktide Fleet Admiral (CEO) / O X I D E High Council Independent Fleet [INDF] INDF Recruitment
Bienurdau Hywoaf Minmatar Matari Holo News Network	Posted - 2007.04.14 09:53:00 - [59] Originally by: Rabb Darktide Really, you don't need game mechaincs to implement a treaty. You just need to put an agreement in writing and have both parties indicate a signature. The problem is there is no real mechanics to treaties in game. There is no real punishment etc. The ideas I had you could formalize mining rights, ratting rats, non agression treaties, mutual defense pacts etc. You could assign at the time of signing penalties incurred for breaking the treaties. You could also assign maintenance fees etc. Currently in game its just a verbal agreement that has no real enforcement because the game doesn't allow any enforcement. Idea: Treaties Idea: Jump Rigs
Phillis Stein Caldari Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.04.14 10:03:00 - [60] As usual my apologies for making ppl spend a few minutes reading this when they could be having fun killing their enemies. First of all there was no pre planned idea to form a new Alliance. Prime was happy in Oxide, a few too many carebears but you get that in every Alliance. It didnt take a genius to realise that the New Regions was the place for Oxide to live, not in p-v and pf. Both of these systems have always been plagued by hostile/pirates Corps. The idea was to get all the Corps, who by the way had 99% of their pos in 1 system to spread out to our claimed Region. Pentagram can verify this has they had claimed one of our systems as it had laid empty since Oxide had moved to their new home. IN order to get everyone out of P-V safely we decided to be friends with TRI. They graciously agreed. Our pilots were told they were blue but as we were friends with our neighbours, there was to be no working rogether. Within minutes some pilots were informing our neighbours in local intell chats the positions of Tri pilots. Tri off course set us back to red. The Oxide chats then began to blame each other and some communication problems had arisen. Edo accepted that this could have been done better. An approach was made to leave Oxide as a few of us disagreed on how the Alliance should develope. When we left we said that we would have Oxide to blue and keep all our neighbours in good standing. Tri was red at this time. Within minutes Oxide set us to orange/red, I asked a w33d pilot in local and he confirmed that. We tried to make Diplo contacts with all the New Region Alliances, some agreed to Naps and others didnt. DMC and Oxide , I can only Presume, told everyone that we were intent on Eve domination and that we had Tri as friends. Several Alliances attacked a R-ED pos. As we were on the way to defend it we were ganked, quite nicely to, By Tri. We lost some ships. Those with Tri kb can confirm this. Check date of the kills with the attack on the pos. Our own pos was then attacked by 6 Alliances. We have 207 members so yes, we must have been a great threat. Tri heard about this and much to their credit offered to help. The rest is history. By the way, those that know Tri will know that they dont have mining slaves and despise any corp or alliance that would even agree to being one. No matter what happens now our sole aim is the destruction of Oxide. Im retired in Rl so I must find something to do with my time. To all those other Alliances, you had yor own reasons for jumping on the band wagon. Edo and Mr Spleen are always available for discussions. Some will come on here and dispute my version but those that have known me for the past 3 years will know that I try to be as honest as possible whilst playing Eve http://www.pixelopia.co.uk/files/signature.jpg



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