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Deckel
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
24
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Posted - 2017.01.02 20:23:58 -
[1] - Quote
What view do you guys have towards implementing a battleground concept to Eve? Sure open world pvp is great, but it is mostly about assessing target situations, baiting and ganking rather than structured even and competitive combat. The only real place to get into this type of game play is by joining formal and informal tournaments that occur periodically. Joining those tournaments though requires a dedication and commitment that is mostly impractical to casual gamer and so most rarely get to experience it.
I think there could be grid and system based battleground games that players can continually enter on a more casual basis.
Naturally there would need to be a variety of different BG games with different admission criteria and perhaps weekly scheduling. To enter you would simply assemble and sit in a ship that meets one of the criteria, perhaps while sitting in certain faction stations and meeting standings criteria. Then select and enter the chosen game, where you will then wait to be paired with opponents. For fleet combat, players must enter a fleet game and be pre-formed as a fleet that meets the entering criteria.
When the game starts players are warped to opposing stations within a system with their ship(perhaps in Jovian or even WH space) and will have a countdown to the start of the game and to get into position. Possible positions being set as beacon locations that players can warp to. Once the starting countdown reaches zero, the game starts and an ending countdown begins.
Getting kills and winning the BG game will earn you LP and the dropped loot of your enemy ships, should you loot/salvage their wrecks before the ending countdown timer ends, which requires each player to be back in the starting station. The LP you earn will either be for an NPC faction you are representing in the fight or for the organizing faction that any lore is based around for establishing this tournament format. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3540
|
Posted - 2017.01.02 20:27:47 -
[2] - Quote
Deckel wrote:What view do you guys have towards implementing a battleground concept to Eve?
Instanced PVP in any form would destroy open PVP, it would also have a negative effect on the markets also which would be just as bad.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5133
|
Posted - 2017.01.02 20:28:19 -
[3] - Quote
Learn to search the forums, this come sup and is shot down every week.
no, you cannot have arenas in an open world game, go away. |
Deckel
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
24
|
Posted - 2017.01.02 20:44:53 -
[4] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Deckel wrote:What view do you guys have towards implementing a battleground concept to Eve?
Instanced PVP in any form would destroy open PVP, it would also have a negative effect on the markets also which would be just as bad.
Would it perhaps destroy open PVP for the sole reason that most people prefer Instanced PVP and it's convenience? And if most people prefer it, isn't it fair to say that it could make the game more popular? As all things It would all depend on how it is implemented.
If say it is implemented through a weekly schedule with a different game every day of the week, then those who do not qualify or dislike some games of the day then they need to do other activities for those days.
While some are no doubt very vocal against the idea, that is no reason to halt discussion about how it could be done so that gameplay and game experience is enhanced. |
Lyra Gerie
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
101
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Posted - 2017.01.02 21:08:01 -
[5] - Quote
Deckel wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Deckel wrote:What view do you guys have towards implementing a battleground concept to Eve?
Instanced PVP in any form would destroy open PVP, it would also have a negative effect on the markets also which would be just as bad. Would it perhaps destroy open PVP for the sole reason that most people prefer Instanced PVP and it's convenience? And if most people prefer it, isn't it fair to say that it could make the game more popular? As all things It would all depend on how it is implemented. If say it is implemented through a weekly schedule with a different game every day of the week, then those who do not qualify or dislike some games of the day then they need to do other activities for those days. While some are no doubt very vocal against the idea, that is no reason to halt discussion about how it could be done so that gameplay and game experience is enhanced.
Here's the thing though. Every other mmo has some kind of instanced PvP and almost none of them are open world PvP. People come to eve knowing this and usually looking for this. If you want a instanced PvP experience, there are plenty out there. If however you would like to play Eve, you have to live with open world PvP because anything else breaks the world that Eve has created which is one controlled by the players. The closest you might get would be to form a corp that runs PvP events and likely try to hire another corp or alliance on as security.
It's either that or dueling with individuals and hoping they stick to the terms. Eve isn't a game of convenience, it's a simulation game. Weekly things like this would only detract from other things devs could be doing and it's not that we're halting discussion, it's just no one has a copy paste ready for each and every time this gets suggested and then shot down. This HAS been discussed, to death one might say, that's why they're shooting you down. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3540
|
Posted - 2017.01.02 21:18:42 -
[6] - Quote
Deckel wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Deckel wrote:What view do you guys have towards implementing a battleground concept to Eve?
Instanced PVP in any form would destroy open PVP, it would also have a negative effect on the markets also which would be just as bad. Would it perhaps destroy open PVP for the sole reason that most people prefer Instanced PVP and it's convenience? And if most people prefer it, isn't it fair to say that it could make the game more popular? As all things It would all depend on how it is implemented. It would destroy open PVP because some players who like it will only PVP there, which will lower the number of players in space causing less open PVP, which in turn will cause more players to move to instanced PVP simply to get a fight not because they like it.
Deckel wrote: While some are no doubt very vocal against the idea, that is no reason to halt discussion about how it could be done so that gameplay and game experience is enhanced.
This topic has come up so often it might as well have a sticky, all times it is shot down because of the negative effect it will have on the structure of the game. Once there was even a DEV that made a topic, just before he left the company, about instanced PVP structures for two players to use and it went down in a ball of fire also.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
19884
|
Posted - 2017.01.02 21:35:33 -
[7] - Quote
#fucknotodojo2017
Murderers of Negotiable Motivations
=]|[=
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Deckel
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
24
|
Posted - 2017.01.02 21:50:49 -
[8] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:It would destroy open PVP because some players who like it will only PVP there, which will lower the number of players in space causing less open PVP, which in turn will cause more players to move to instanced PVP simply to get a fight not because they like it.
Lowering the number of players in space causes less risk to players who use it and increases the value of items that are farmed. Players will take advantage of this new equilibrium and make lots of isk which will then attract more players back to the outside world. And if Instance PVP brings in more players world usage might even stay the same, however the value of items will increase making world ratting, pvp and exploration even more valuable.
Making changes like this will only ever shift the equilibrium of markets, not break the game, and not the gameplay. If anything giving players a platform to easily practice combat strats will only increase the skill level of players that actually do roam around space. Or are you just unhappy that you would lose so many easy kills? |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2867
|
Posted - 2017.01.02 21:53:27 -
[9] - Quote
Deckel wrote:While some are no doubt very vocal against the idea, that is no reason to halt discussion about how it could be done so that gameplay and game experience is enhanced.
There is no such way to implement this. Move on. |
Atomeon
The Scope Gallente Federation
76
|
Posted - 2017.01.02 21:59:11 -
[10] - Quote
Deckel wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:It would destroy open PVP because some players who like it will only PVP there, which will lower the number of players in space causing less open PVP, which in turn will cause more players to move to instanced PVP simply to get a fight not because they like it. Lowering the number of players in space causes less risk to players who use it and increases the value of items that are farmed. Players will take advantage of this new equilibrium and make lots of isk which will then attract more players back to the outside world. And if Instance PVP brings in more players world usage might even stay the same, however the value of items will increase making world ratting, pvp and exploration even more valuable. Making changes like this will only ever shift the equilibrium of markets, not break the game, and not the gameplay. If anything giving players a platform to easily practice combat strats will only increase the skill level of players that actually do roam around space. Or are you just unhappy that you would lose so many easy kills?
If you think this would help the game, organize yourself a small tournament , give prize to the winners and so on. Nothing is keeping you to not do so. |
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Deckel
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
24
|
Posted - 2017.01.02 22:01:47 -
[11] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Deckel wrote:While some are no doubt very vocal against the idea, that is no reason to halt discussion about how it could be done so that gameplay and game experience is enhanced. There is no such way to implement this. Move on.
Ya, and CCP alliance tournaments are impossible too ...
It's just about implementing such a format, or others, through automated means rather than manual ones. The question is not whether it can be done ... because it can ... the question is; is the effort worth it? and, how can it be done without affecting the rest of the game too much? and, What benefits/costs are associated with getting involved with it? |
Deckel
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
24
|
Posted - 2017.01.02 22:15:17 -
[12] - Quote
Atomeon wrote:
If you think this would help the game, organize yourself a small tournament , give prize to the winners and so on. Nothing is keeping you to not do so.
And if I was so inclined and took on all the work and responsibility to host monthly, weekly, bi-weekly tournaments and games, and if it became popular just how would I regulate cheaters? gankers? and griefers? And even if it becomes big enough that CCP offered safe system server space, that still leads to both them and me continually burdened with manual effort. Effort that could be automated to both allow game-wide player participation and freedom from error-prone and cumbersome manual labor, contributing to a game that I personally don't want my entire life to revolve around. |
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2872
|
Posted - 2017.01.02 22:16:30 -
[13] - Quote
The difference between the AT and your idea is that
- the number of participants is insignificant compared to the overall EVE populace.
- it is a time limited event for a very tiny selection of players.
- it has significant entry fees that are unfeasible for your idea without reducing it to absurdity.
- other tournaments also have some kind of entry hurdle that you need to overcome (fees, pre-selection, etc.) and that they require effort in order to be put in place.
All these things and several more limit who and when people can take part in these tournaments and thus they have no impact on open-world PVP whatsoever (except for the prices ending up on the killboards in some ridiculous ways).
Your Arena idea (don't you dare to deny that you want an arena system!), however, removes all these limitations and provides people a means to PVP without them having to put effort into finding PVP activities. As a result, fewer and fewer people will see the need to roam around to find targets and they remove themselves from the pool of available targets for other people roaming around, which increases the drag towards the arenas and discourages flying around.
However, the arenas you are looking for are called Jita, Tama, Rancer, M-OEEB, HED-GP, NOL-, Asakai, B-R, N-RAEL, Poitot and so on. We already have instanced PVP because the individual star systems are your instances.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3670
|
Posted - 2017.01.02 22:33:11 -
[14] - Quote
If i can't interfere in your pvp then no. No magic barriers. Unworkable.
Go to sisi for gimmicky pvp without interruption.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Deckel
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
24
|
Posted - 2017.01.02 22:42:39 -
[15] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:The difference between the AT and your idea is that
- the number of participants is insignificant compared to the overall EVE populace.
- it is a time limited event for a very tiny selection of players.
- it has significant entry fees that are unfeasible for your idea without reducing it to absurdity.
- other tournaments also have some kind of entry hurdle that you need to overcome (fees, pre-selection, etc.) and that they require effort in order to be put in place.
All these things and several more limit who and when people can take part in these tournaments and thus they have no impact on open-world PVP whatsoever (except for the prices ending up on the killboards in some ridiculous ways). Your Arena idea (don't you dare to deny that you want an arena system!), however, removes all these limitations and provides people a means to PVP without them having to put effort into finding PVP activities. As a result, fewer and fewer people will see the need to roam around to find targets and they remove themselves from the pool of available targets for other people roaming around, which increases the drag towards the arenas and discourages flying around. However, the arenas you are looking for are called Jita, Tama, Rancer, M-OEEB, HED-GP, NOL-, Asakai, B-R, N-RAEL, Poitot and so on. We already have instanced PVP because the individual star systems are your instances.
I don't deny that some of the games would be an arena system, but some could also be a game of tag within a system, capture the flag, hauling races blockade running and retrieval. I'm not necessarily saying to make it just a matter of repeatedly queuing up for a fight, only these events a possible options. It could even be implemented as a random daily or weekly achievement or recurring event that need to be signed up for.
There are just so many possibilities that just hearing a blunt "NO" seems rather unimaginative and short sighted.
Sure you are worried about the possible loss of open world pvp content, but what exactly is wrong about lowering the barriers and entry hurdles to engage in tournament style combat. Are you saying such content is worthless and not in demand? because you would be wrong. I'm not saying participation or qualification in this activity should be super easy and abundant, just accessible so that players can experience it in a more casual setting. |
Deckel
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
24
|
Posted - 2017.01.02 22:48:47 -
[16] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:If i can't interfere in your pvp then no. No magic barriers. Unworkable.
Go to sisi for gimmicky pvp without interruption.
If I can't gank you then no... That's what I heard anyway.
But suppose these events do become interruptible by having the site spawned somewhere random across accessible eve. Just how much of a difference would that actually make? |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
11311
|
Posted - 2017.01.02 22:49:21 -
[17] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Your Arena idea (don't you dare to deny that you want an arena system!), however, removes all these limitations and provides people a means to PVP without them having to put effort into finding PVP activities. As a result, fewer and fewer people will see the need to roam around to find targets and they remove themselves from the pool of available targets for other people roaming around, which increases the drag towards the arenas and discourages flying around. This is the point that needs to be hammered, right here.
An Arena system in an "open world" PvP game will create a feedback loop that encourages people to use the Arena more than anything else.
After all... why go out and deal with the unpredictabilities of "open world PvP" when you can get your jollies off at an Arena where only a select few factors matter (tank, range dication, endurance... that is it) and there are no "X factors" you need to be concerned about.
How did you Veterans start?
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
11311
|
Posted - 2017.01.02 23:02:08 -
[18] - Quote
Deckel wrote:I don't deny that some of the games would be an arena system, but some could also be a...
- game of tag within a system, - capture the flag, - hauling races blockade running and retrieval. - avoiding hunters while doing PvE - Faction Warfare and 0.0 SOV warfare - low-sec hauling and trading
And yes... all these things provide "rewards" of some kind.
Deckel wrote:There are just so many possibilities that just hearing a blunt "NO" seems rather unimaginative and short sighted. The feeling is mutual.
You are looking at your idea from the prism of "I want this" and not from a "what will this do for the already existing systems in the game and how will it affect them."
Deckel wrote:Sure you are worried about the possible loss of open world pvp content, but what exactly is wrong about lowering the barriers and entry hurdles to engage in tournament style combat. This is actually the interesting issue behind "Arena" ideas.
People say that it will be the "everymans" way of dong PvP. The issue is that in tournaments require a different style of combat compared to "open world PvP." Only a few factors matter (as I mentioned earlier) and this leads to people min/maxing those variables to absurd levels... levels that no casual person would be able to match. This will lead to increased barriers of entry.
At least in "open world PvP" you can use the inherent unfairness of the environment to stack the odds in your favor. Example: have a swarm of month-old newbies mob a small group of veterans. The veterans may be able to nuke the group, but may also die due to being overwhelmed.
And no... do not start on "the system can be tiered by Skillpoints." "Total Skillpoints" is a meaningless metric. What actually matters is how many skillpoints you have applied in certain specialties.
Deckel wrote:Are you saying such content is worthless and not in demand? because you would be wrong. No. We are saying that it would be damaging to the existing systems in the game at large.
How did you Veterans start?
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Deckel
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
24
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Posted - 2017.01.02 23:04:07 -
[19] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Your Arena idea (don't you dare to deny that you want an arena system!), however, removes all these limitations and provides people a means to PVP without them having to put effort into finding PVP activities. As a result, fewer and fewer people will see the need to roam around to find targets and they remove themselves from the pool of available targets for other people roaming around, which increases the drag towards the arenas and discourages flying around. This is the point that needs to be hammered, right here. An Arena system in an "open world" PvP game will create a feedback loop that encourages people to use the Arena more than anything else. After all... why go out and deal with the unpredictabilities of "open world PvP" when you can get your jollies off at an Arena where only a select few factors matter (tank, range dication, endurance... that is it) and there are no "X factors" you need to be concerned about.
And what proportion of the player base rarely, if ever does this pvp roaming and would actually get involved in a structured pvp format? And how many would benefit from this structure format and then actually be more inclined and comfortable towards joining a pvp roam?
While those of you who live, sleep, and breathe Eve may see open world pvp as the quintessential aspect of Eve and dive right in, there are very large segments of the player base that are hesitant towards the uncertainties and in-game asset loss that corresponds to such inexperience and mind set. That is where an arena comes in, and even if access to it is infrequent. I think it would be beneficial. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
11311
|
Posted - 2017.01.02 23:11:23 -
[20] - Quote
Arenas do not teach "open world PvP."
Period.
There are tools and tricks you HAVE to learn, independent of your ship's fitting and character skills, by simply going out there and simply doing it.
This is why many veterans, including myself, tell people who want to get into PvP to strap themselves in a cheapo frigate and just do it. A Frigate loss is meaningless in the grand scheme of things and will teach many, many invaluable lessons in survival and managing risk.
An Arena system is a closed loop that does not encourage people to leave. In fact, it does the opposite.
How did you Veterans start?
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Deckel
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
24
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Posted - 2017.01.02 23:20:52 -
[21] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Arenas do not teach "open world PvP."
Period.
And since the whole game is basically an "open world PvP" conflict simulator, there are tools and tricks you HAVE to learn independent of your ship's fitting and character skills *(which is pretty much all that counts in a "closed system" such as an Arena).
This is why many veterans, including myself, tell people who want to get into PvP to strap themselves in a cheapo frigate and just do it. A Frigate loss is meaningless in the grand scheme of things and will teach many, many invaluable lessons in survival and managing risk.
An Arena system is a closed loop that does not encourage people to leave. In fact, it does the opposite.
edit: And I WILL fight this idea to the death. It is the antithesis of what makes EVE, EVE in my opinion.
In the aspect of being trapped in a bubble, committed to a fight and target calling it can be quite similar. But it is true this is only one aspect of combat, and as such it would only be one arena type. Another could just as easily be an entire system or multiple systems where you have to scan down your opponent and dictate the engagement within a limited time window. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2870
|
Posted - 2017.01.02 23:31:48 -
[22] - Quote
Deckel wrote: In the aspect of being trapped in a bubble, committed to a fight and target calling it can be quite similar. But it is true this is only one aspect of combat, and as such it would only be one arena type. Another could just as easily be an entire system or multiple systems where you have to scan down your opponent and dictate the engagement within a limited time window.
And now you're basically designing a whole different game. If this is what you want then it's really quite simple: don't play Eve. Find something that better suits your preferences. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5135
|
Posted - 2017.01.02 23:33:50 -
[23] - Quote
Deckel wrote: Another could just as easily be an entire system or multiple systems where you have to scan down your opponent and dictate the engagement within a limited time window.
That's called 'not being in highsec'.
Your arenas will teach fair fights. There will be no-one dropping a nyx on your solo frigate in your arenas. Winning everything in your arenas will not prepare you for someone who does not fight fair, has numbers and/or a cyno. What do you think someone who learned all thier PVP in your fair fight arenas is going to do the first time they get themselves killed by a bubblecamp, baited on a maller, or even the first time the falcon decloaks? |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3543
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Posted - 2017.01.02 23:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
Deckel wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:It would destroy open PVP because some players who like it will only PVP there, which will lower the number of players in space causing less open PVP, which in turn will cause more players to move to instanced PVP simply to get a fight not because they like it. Lowering the number of players in space causes less risk to players who use it and increases the value of items that are farmed. Players will take advantage of this new equilibrium and make lots of isk which will then attract more players back to the outside world. And if Instance PVP brings in more players world usage might even stay the same, however the value of items will increase making world ratting, pvp and exploration even more valuable. Making changes like this will only ever shift the equilibrium of markets, not break the game, and not the gameplay. If anything giving players a platform to easily practice combat strats will only increase the skill level of players that actually do roam around space. Or are you just unhappy that you would lose so many easy kills? It will not equalize the markets, it will flood them with items, which in turn will cause the value of items to plummet, making it harder for those who want to plex or rely on plex to even be able to play the game. This will cause frustration and cause players to quit. With players quitting there are in turn less players who will enter the PVP arenas, that causes less demand for manufactured items, with demand lessened manufacturers will cut production.... I could go on for a while on what would happen with instanced PVP on the industrial aspect of the game.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3671
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Posted - 2017.01.02 23:35:34 -
[25] - Quote
Deckel wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:If i can't interfere in your pvp then no. No magic barriers. Unworkable.
Go to sisi for gimmicky pvp without interruption.
If I can't gank you then no... That's what I heard anyway. But suppose these events do become interruptible by having the site spawned somewhere random across accessible eve. Just how much of a difference would that actually make?
Pretty much. The whole point of eve is that you are gankable ANYWHERE. No magic walls, no dev hax, no teleportation.
It depends. If i can probe you down and shoot you then im more inclined towards the idea. But if i can do that, why aren't you just warping to a safe for your 'arena' or a mission pocket?
I can't see how what you want cannot already be satisfied with what we have. Just have a referee.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Deckel
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
24
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Posted - 2017.01.02 23:39:56 -
[26] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote: You are looking at your idea from the prism of "I want this" and not from a "what will this do for the already existing systems in the game and how will it affect them."
A person always starts from an "I want this" prospective, then they break it down into how could you do it and what would this affect. And those lobbying towards the extreme yes, and no always see and present results as more extreme than things will likely turn out.
I try to stay open minded towards being wrong but have not yet been convinced of it on this topic yet.
ShahFluffers wrote:
And no... do not start on "the system can be tiered by Skillpoints." "Total Skillpoints" is a meaningless metric. What actually matters is how many skillpoints you have applied in certain specialties.
I would not dream of tiering by skillpoints rather roles would be decided purely by ship type, role, modules and maybe assessed cost. If an entry slot requires a T1 attack/scan/ewar frig that is what it would need to be filled with (perhaps with some combination rules). If you are entering with bad skills for your role that is entirely up to you.
ShahFluffers wrote: No. We are saying that it would be damaging to the existing systems in the game at large.
Change is not necessarily damaging. I honestly thing you lot are over reacting.
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Atomeon
The Scope Gallente Federation
76
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Posted - 2017.01.02 23:53:29 -
[27] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Deckel wrote: In the aspect of being trapped in a bubble, committed to a fight and target calling it can be quite similar. But it is true this is only one aspect of combat, and as such it would only be one arena type. Another could just as easily be an entire system or multiple systems where you have to scan down your opponent and dictate the engagement within a limited time window.
And now you're basically designing a whole different game. If this is what you want then it's really quite simple: don't play Eve. Find something that better suits your preferences.
I think he should propose a new Moba game made by CCP and has all that kind of PvP he wants. |
Deckel
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
24
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Posted - 2017.01.03 00:02:10 -
[28] - Quote
Implementing a format where players can engage in structured combat or competition against roughly equivalent sides, relatively free from interference is useful. And everyone who has so vehemently opposed it due to it surely 'breaking the game' is just agreeing with how much in-demand and how popular it could be. But like anything that blows up, it must first be made or found, thus ensuring the survival of the in-game economy, and the world activities that ensure the supply of these items continues. And with such activities encounters and conflicts will continue.
You can shift player activities, but you can't stop the machine that feeds and supplies them for it. |
Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
136
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Posted - 2017.01.03 00:05:53 -
[29] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Learn to search the forums, this come sup and is shot down every week.
no, you cannot have arenas in an open world game, go away. Well, if we're going to get technical. Dust 514 was an instanced PVP arena based game loosely connected to the open world of Eve Online.
Structured PvP arena with Eve Ships may work as a standalone title if there is little to no market interaction with Eve (maybe offer an unlock of SKINs and other cosmetics for playing).
'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2872
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Posted - 2017.01.03 00:07:32 -
[30] - Quote
Atomeon wrote: I think he should propose a new Moba game made by CCP and has all that kind of PvP he wants.
Even Valkyrie seems like it might be closer to what he wants. But it sure as hell isn't Eve. |
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Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
136
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Posted - 2017.01.03 00:16:39 -
[31] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Atomeon wrote: I think he should propose a new Moba game made by CCP and has all that kind of PvP he wants.
Even Valkyrie seems like it might be closer to what he wants. But it sure as hell isn't Eve. Is there something wrong with a standalone title experience? Valk, Gunjack, and Project Nova aren't directly connected to Eve Online, but fill a gameplay niche that serves as a touchpoint for the expanded universe.
'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
19890
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Posted - 2017.01.03 00:31:40 -
[32] - Quote
Pleasure Hub Node-514 wrote:Zhilia Mann wrote:Atomeon wrote: I think he should propose a new Moba game made by CCP and has all that kind of PvP he wants.
Even Valkyrie seems like it might be closer to what he wants. But it sure as hell isn't Eve. Is there something wrong with a standalone title experience? Valk, Gunjack, and Project Nova aren't directly connected to Eve Online, but fill a gameplay niche that serves as a touchpoint for the expanded universe. not at all , if you want that ,great, go play one of those.
Murderers of Negotiable Motivations
=]|[=
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Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2874
|
Posted - 2017.01.03 08:18:43 -
[33] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:And no... do not start on "the system can be tiered by Skillpoints." "Total Skillpoints" is a meaningless metric. What actually matters is how many skillpoints you have applied in certain specialties. Not only that. A guy with 20M SP who has been PVPing for 5 years can easily beat a guy who has just started PVPing and injected 20M SP. SP are a near meaningless way to tier arenas. This actually discourages PVP because the obvious epeen of someone will get hammered over and over by someone's invisible epeen when people expect a "leveled" playing field. Experience is a lot more important than the raw SP count and you cannot limit or restrict experience. Even char age does not hold any water because EVE revolves around alts, which may look like a 5 days old char but have a guy with 10 years of experience behind it.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1563
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Posted - 2017.01.03 08:30:10 -
[34] - Quote
Deckel wrote:Zhilia Mann wrote:Deckel wrote:While some are no doubt very vocal against the idea, that is no reason to halt discussion about how it could be done so that gameplay and game experience is enhanced. There is no such way to implement this. Move on. Ya, and CCP alliance tournaments are impossible too ...
That is something completely different.
You seem to look at your idea from the viewpoint of a victim and so did I for my first year in New Eden. Then I was curious and it all seemed very complicated and "could only have one result."
Now I have to deal with even belt-rats warping in fear and my isk flying away from me
Just challenge myself in a new way, I started to be the logi-biatch. You should start to pvp yourself and gid gud. You will sound much different a year or two from now.
Eve Minions is recruiting.
This is the law of ship progression!
Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services Singularity Syndicate
2106
|
Posted - 2017.01.03 08:33:51 -
[35] - Quote
Another downside: if you give instanced PvP then people who also pay the same to play the game will want instanced PvE. At which point you start breaking the game entirely. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
19911
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Posted - 2017.01.03 09:06:01 -
[36] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Another downside: if you give instanced PvP then people who also pay the same to play the game will want instanced PvE. At which point you start breaking the game entirely. No you broke it at the point with the instanced PvP, ****all that. You want tourney PvP, go to sisi, or go play something that's a) designed for it and d) not going to be broken by having it shoehorned in.
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
3378
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Posted - 2017.01.03 11:44:00 -
[37] - Quote
Deckel wrote:Implementing a format where players can engage in structured combat or competition against roughly equivalent sides, relatively free from interference is useful. And everyone who has so vehemently opposed it due to it surely 'breaking the game' is just agreeing with how much in-demand and how popular it could be. EVE is a open world PvP game where combat emerges for very different reasons but all related to the big sandbox which gives all of this meaning. I know EVE has many things you can do, but they all happen in the sandbox and the fundamental principal is that you are never isolated in space.
What you are looking for is more like a instances shooter which is something completely different and you can find such a thing in countless other games which specialise on such game mechanics but don't have the open world PvP instead. Why not play one of those?
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Scipio Artelius
Savage Moon Society
46505
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Posted - 2017.01.03 12:40:47 -
[38] - Quote
No thanks on TQ.
When Thunderdome becomes more widely available, or on SiSi already, sure; but not in the real game. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1122
|
Posted - 2017.01.03 15:21:40 -
[39] - Quote
OP, contrary to the majority of the opinions stated here a battle area where people could go and fight free from outside influences would be a wonderful addition to this game provided it was implemented properly and with some appropriate restrictions.
It would have minimal to no impact on the markets, ships getting blown up are still ships getting blown up and the markets do not care how, when or where those ships get blown up. Based on my personal experiences since starting in 2009 these would likely be a boost to the markets. I have met a lot of players that are not willing to risk a 1 on 1 or even small group adventures in low sec for fear that they will be jumped on by a large group. However they would happily take part in blowing things up if it was in a more controlled environment free of the being jumped by a large group aspect.
If properly implemented these would allow for a true one on one contest where no one could cheat and all by itself that holds some potential to boost PvP activities because believe it or not there is still some that apply principals of fairness even in their game play online.
These could be a valuable tool to help train new players. Dual's are worthless in this regard since they do not prevent outside interference. Yes ultimately a player needs to get out an experience "real" PvP in this game, however these would serve as a way to help get them over the concerns about losing ships. They would also help with the new player getting ganged up on before they have a clue what they are doing aspect which causes some to leave PvP and others to leave the game.
This idea would not in any significant way circumvent the core EvE principal that you are not safe anywhere. You still have to get from station to one of these battle areas and when the battle was done you still have to get back to a station so you are vulnerable during travel. And to be honest inside these battle areas you are not really safe since the whole purpose of them is to try and blow up the other people / peoples ships.
Some say no to these because it would be the death of PvP in this game. My response is simply this, if that actually happened then we would all know whether the player base prefers instanced PvP or the more open and free form that we have now and either way that would be a good thing because CCP could then focus devs assets on giving the player base what they really want. For many reasons I personally I believe these would ultimately lead to even more PvP than we have now and the fact that some of that increase would only occur inside these arena areas only is not a problem that CCP or this community should be concerned about because additional subscriptions means more cash for CCP.
With those things said this idea will never happen in EvE, why? Because most of the PvP players in the game do not want a fair fight or anything that even remotely resembles a fair fight, in fact many of them simply choose to warp away from what looks like a fair fight. What they want is to be assured of a victory achieved through treachery, lies, deceit and just plain old my stick is bigger mentality. Before you jump on me about this there is a place in this game for treachery, lies, decit and the my stick is bigger mentality, there is a place for these battle areas.
To sum up. Battle arenas are something we need in this game. Yes there are some potential negative aspects to them, but as a whole they would be a positive change made to this game. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
19919
|
Posted - 2017.01.03 15:35:23 -
[40] - Quote
No they're not, as seen when the community lost its collective **** at the dojo thread.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
27281
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Posted - 2017.01.03 21:54:13 -
[41] - Quote
CCP Solomon wrote:the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built That cornerstone means that instances, of any kind, are explicitly excluded from the design of Eve, because they have no place here.
If people want arenas it's up to them to organise them, like many have before them. If they don't want others interfering, organise them on SiSi.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
922
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Posted - 2017.01.03 22:12:51 -
[42] - Quote
Deckel wrote:And if I was so inclined and took on all the work and responsibility to host monthly, weekly, bi-weekly tournaments and games, and if it became popular just how would I regulate cheaters? gankers? and griefers? And even if it becomes big enough that CCP offered safe system server space, that still leads to both them and me continually burdened with manual effort. Effort that could be automated to both allow game-wide player participation and freedom from error-prone and cumbersome manual labor, contributing to a game that I personally don't want my entire life to revolve around.
EVE is a player driven sandbox, figure it out. CCP will never offer safe systems to do this in. A fundamental concept in EVE is you aren't safe any time, any where. Cheating and playing unfair are core parts of the game. If you got your way, the core playerbase would get bored and simply leave. It would kill a fundamental part of the game that's kept it going for 13 years. |
Matthias Ancaladron
Wrath of Angels
61
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Posted - 2017.01.03 23:14:39 -
[43] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Deckel wrote:What view do you guys have towards implementing a battleground concept to Eve?
Instanced PVP in any form would destroy open PVP, it would also have a negative effect on the markets also which would be just as bad. Nah it wouldn't change anything at all. Runescape had duel arena. Had no effect on the several versions of PvP that evolved throughout runescapes history from PvP areas to entire PvP enabled servers and PvP being put into minigames only.
What's interesting here is that eve already has a duel mechanic. There would be nothing wrong with creating a centralized location or dueling "hub" if a system or location doesn't already exist. You could even do a wreckage field as an asteroid belt or something. Like a ship graveyard, in the sense an asteroid belt is for mining the occasional system would have a ship graveyard for 1v1 or multiplayer duels. Would be no different functionally than any player created systems that may be around already. Rather than 3 people making their own team and finding three other people to make a team this could be a formal dueling system, submit a fleet, establish rules and things like that. It would just be a more robust dueling system and not necessarily what op might be talking about.
There's nothing wrong with duel arenas. Gladiator style PvP is the best pvp. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5142
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Posted - 2017.01.04 00:07:41 -
[44] - Quote
So create it yourself. Declare perimeter planet 1 to be a duel arena or something and just...put some effort in. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1124
|
Posted - 2017.01.04 14:47:49 -
[45] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:No they're not, as seen when the community lost its collective **** at the dojo thread. Like my grandfather said, opinions are like noses everyone has at least one.
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:CCP Solomon wrote:the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built That cornerstone means that instances, of any kind, are explicitly excluded from the design of Eve, because they have no place here. I will never understand or accept this argument, we already have thousands of dedicated magical areas around the EvE universe where a player or group of players can PvP with no risk of being blown up by other players. Yet people rarely complain about these and when someone does they are almost universally defended as a required part of the game.
Sonya Corvinus wrote:EVE is a player driven sandbox, figure it out. CCP will never offer safe systems to do this in. A fundamental concept in EVE is you aren't safe any time, any where. Cheating and playing unfair are core parts of the game. If you got your way, the core playerbase would get bored and simply leave. It would kill a fundamental part of the game that's kept it going for 13 years. Sorry but you are wrong, see above. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2401
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Posted - 2017.01.04 15:34:25 -
[46] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:No they're not, as seen when the community lost its collective **** at the dojo thread. Like my grandfather said, opinions are like noses everyone has at least one. Jonah Gravenstein wrote:CCP Solomon wrote:the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built That cornerstone means that instances, of any kind, are explicitly excluded from the design of Eve, because they have no place here. I will never understand or accept this argument, we already have thousands of dedicated magical areas around the EvE universe where a player or group of players can PvP with no risk of being blown up by other players. Yet people rarely complain about these and when someone does they are almost universally defended as a required part of the game. Sonya Corvinus wrote:EVE is a player driven sandbox, figure it out. CCP will never offer safe systems to do this in. A fundamental concept in EVE is you aren't safe any time, any where. Cheating and playing unfair are core parts of the game. If you got your way, the core playerbase would get bored and simply leave. It would kill a fundamental part of the game that's kept it going for 13 years. Sorry but you are wrong, see above.
OK I'll bite. Where???
There is the test server, there is not undocking, and..... what? Where are these magical pvp places that I can't 3rd party into? |
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
924
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Posted - 2017.01.04 16:17:14 -
[47] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Sorry but you are wrong, see above.
Name one area in EVE where you can PvP with zero risk of a third party ruining your day |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
27287
|
Posted - 2017.01.04 21:43:25 -
[48] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:I will never understand or accept this argument, It's not an argument it's a statement of fact; Eve was built around the concept of other people being able to ruin your day, wherever you are; the original devs being "griefers" from Ultima Online.
Quote:we already have thousands of dedicated magical areas around the EvE universe where a player or group of players can PvP with no risk of being blown up by other players. Really? Name one.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
19947
|
Posted - 2017.01.04 22:41:28 -
[49] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:we already have thousands of dedicated magical areas around the EvE universe where a player or group of players can PvP with no risk of being blown up by other players. name one
Murderers of Negotiable Motivations
Lords.Of.Midnight currently recruiting
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1127
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Posted - 2017.01.05 15:17:21 -
[50] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:OK I'll bite. Where???
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Really? Name one.
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:name one How short the memories and yet so typical. At one point in time or another all three of you have stated that the markets of EvE ARE in fact PvP. If the markets of EvE are PvP then there are literally thousands of places in the game where players can PvP in complete safety and all you need to do to name one is look at an NPC station near you. Since you specifically asked me I will name the biggest one in the game and that is Jita 4/4.
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3544
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Posted - 2017.01.05 15:25:58 -
[51] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:OK I'll bite. Where??? Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Really? Name one. Ralph King-Griffin wrote:name one How short the memories and yet so typical. At one point in time or another all three of you have stated that the markets of EvE ARE in fact PvP. If the markets of EvE are PvP then there are literally thousands of places in the game where players can PvP in complete safety and all you need to do to name one is look at an NPC station near you. Since you specifically asked me I will name the biggest one in the game and that is Jita 4/4. If you are going to go there, which is completely off topic of the OP, you have to risk ISK and assets to market PVP all the while someone can under cut you or out bid you buy orders causing you to fail in that market. So no there is definitely risk involved with market PVP, also there is the fact that you have to haul your goods to a market which is dangerous in and of itself.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
27295
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Posted - 2017.01.05 19:30:03 -
[52] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:OK I'll bite. Where??? Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Really? Name one. Ralph King-Griffin wrote:name one How short the memories and yet so typical. At one point in time or another all three of you have stated that the markets of EvE ARE in fact PvP. If the markets of EvE are PvP then there are literally thousands of places in the game where players can PvP in complete safety and all you need to do to name one is look at an NPC station near you. Since you specifically asked me I will name the biggest one in the game and that is Jita 4/4. Wrong.
You can lose everything you own in the blink of an eye, through no fault of your own; hardly the definition of safe.
Ruining somebodies day via the market happens 23.5/7, especially in the station that you chose to use as an example.
Your ignorance is showing, put it away and try again.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
19961
|
Posted - 2017.01.05 19:35:11 -
[53] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:OK I'll bite. Where??? Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Really? Name one. Ralph King-Griffin wrote:name one How short the memories and yet so typical. At one point in time or another all three of you have stated that the markets of EvE ARE in fact PvP. If the markets of EvE are PvP then there are literally thousands of places in the game where players can PvP in complete safety and all you need to do to name one is look at an NPC station near you. Since you specifically asked me I will name the biggest one in the game and that is Jita 4/4. i get figuratively beaten up and robbed every time i open the market tab. the markets arent safe
Murderers of Negotiable Motivations
Lords.Of.Midnight currently recruiting
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Scipio Artelius
Savage Moon Society
46532
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Posted - 2017.01.05 19:36:15 -
[54] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:... there are literally thousands of places in the game where players can PvP in complete safety... Markets are far from completely safe. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
19963
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Posted - 2017.01.05 19:44:13 -
[55] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Donnachadh wrote:... there are literally thousands of places in the game where players can PvP in complete safety... Markets are far from completely safe. arguably more dagerous
Murderers of Negotiable Motivations
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
27295
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Posted - 2017.01.05 19:45:23 -
[56] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Donnachadh wrote:... there are literally thousands of places in the game where players can PvP in complete safety... Markets are far from completely safe. arguably more dagerous They can certainly be as brutal as any ship to ship PvP, if not more.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
11323
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Posted - 2017.01.05 20:14:54 -
[57] - Quote
I remember my first Tech 2 Frigate.
It was only a month later that someone pointed out that Assault Frigates go for around 15 to 20 million at the market hubs... not 120 million.
Yeah... the markets are no better than some places in low-sec... be it inside or outside the station.
And few people ***** that they are effectively forced to utilize it to get anywhere in the game in any reasonable amount of time. But God forbid that someone shoots their spaceship without their consent... ohhh noooooooooooo...
How did you Veterans start?
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2411
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Posted - 2017.01.05 20:20:30 -
[58] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:OK I'll bite. Where??? Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Really? Name one. Ralph King-Griffin wrote:name one How short the memories and yet so typical. At one point in time or another all three of you have stated that the markets of EvE ARE in fact PvP. If the markets of EvE are PvP then there are literally thousands of places in the game where players can PvP in complete safety and all you need to do to name one is look at an NPC station near you. Since you specifically asked me I will name the biggest one in the game and that is Jita 4/4.
Link where I stated that market pvp is a thing or just for the love of all that is pure and just - STFU.
I'm waiting for the link and I'm not at all nervous. |
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
931
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Posted - 2017.01.05 23:20:15 -
[59] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:How short the memories and yet so typical. At one point in time or another all three of you have stated that the markets of EvE ARE in fact PvP. If the markets of EvE are PvP then there are literally thousands of places in the game where players can PvP in complete safety and all you need to do to name one is look at an NPC station near you. Since you specifically asked me I will name the biggest one in the game and that is Jita 4/4.
If you've figured out how to play the market without competing with other players, please let me know. Until then.... |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3546
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Posted - 2017.01.05 23:35:31 -
[60] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Donnachadh wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:OK I'll bite. Where??? Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Really? Name one. Ralph King-Griffin wrote:name one How short the memories and yet so typical. At one point in time or another all three of you have stated that the markets of EvE ARE in fact PvP. If the markets of EvE are PvP then there are literally thousands of places in the game where players can PvP in complete safety and all you need to do to name one is look at an NPC station near you. Since you specifically asked me I will name the biggest one in the game and that is Jita 4/4. Link where I stated that market pvp is a thing or just for the love of all that is pure and just - STFU. I'm waiting for the link and I'm not at all nervous. I lolled, I wont provide the link of why but I did.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1128
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Posted - 2017.01.06 15:56:09 -
[61] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard Jonah Gravenstein Ralph King-Griffin Scipio Artelius
Missing the point, perhaps I am to blame for that. You cannot touch my market character physically as in to blow them up because they NEVER leave the NPC stations they are in. Financially, based on the way I play the market game there is no way you can hurt me either. This has allowed me to play the markets and compete with others from a position of 100% safety both physically and financially and I have been doing this since 2009. If you choose to get greedy and go for the huge scores on the markets and open your self to financial loss that is your choice, but it does not change the fundamental fact that you can sit in a station in 100% safety and PvP till your hearts content.
Getting back to the battle areas. In the long run these offer noting but potential positive changes for this game. Potential for more sales of stuff on the markets. Potential to move players currently entrenched in the PvE aspects to a more active PvP(traditional blow stuff up definition). List could continue but I will stop here for now because out of time. And in exchange for all these potentials to change the game in a positive way we have to give just one very small concession to the not safe anywhere or anytime premise. Considering that the only time these players would be safe from outside interactions is when they are in the battle area, I say let's give them a try and see what happens. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2417
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Posted - 2017.01.06 16:39:03 -
[62] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Omnathious Deninard Jonah Gravenstein Ralph King-Griffin Scipio Artelius
Missing the point, perhaps I am to blame for that. You cannot touch my market character physically as in to blow them up because they NEVER leave the NPC stations they are in. Financially, based on the way I play the market game there is no way you can hurt me either. This has allowed me to play the markets and compete with others from a position of 100% safety both physically and financially and I have been doing this since 2009. If you choose to get greedy and go for the huge scores on the markets and open your self to financial loss that is your choice, but it does not change the fundamental fact that you can sit in a station in 100% safety and PvP till your hearts content.
Getting back to the battle areas. In the long run these offer noting but potential positive changes for this game. Potential for more sales of stuff on the markets. Potential to move players currently entrenched in the PvE aspects to a more active PvP(traditional blow stuff up definition). List could continue but I will stop here for now because out of time. And in exchange for all these potentials to change the game in a positive way we have to give just one very small concession to the not safe anywhere or anytime premise. Considering that the only time these players would be safe from outside interactions is when they are in the battle area, I say let's give them a try and see what happens.
"Financially, based on the way I play the market game there is no way you can hurt me either. This has allowed me to play the markets and compete with others from a position of 100% safety both physically and financially and I have been doing this since 2009. "
If there is no risk to you in any way, how can you categorize what you are doing as PVP. The V between the Ps dictates at least the possibility of loss. As I stated earlier, playing the markets and 'winning' isn't combat. Thank you for agreeing with me. You're playing against the market. You can't compel anyone to do anything.
In PVP I can force another player to slow down (web), not flee (point/scram), blow up (accumulate damage) and so on AND (the V between the Ps) that player can do the same back to me (in real time) or any number of other unmentioned things as a counter. In the market you can't force anyone to do anything = not PVP. You're one of those guys that calls their moped a motorcycle and can't understand why most of the world is laughing at you. I just feel bad at this point.
Back to the OP. Just get with any PVP group or player. Join up and/or ask for help. It's a great community and getting help is simple. Don't fall in with these poser types. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
3031
|
Posted - 2017.01.06 16:56:03 -
[63] - Quote
We have this. It's called the Alliance Tournament.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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