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Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.15 16:35:00 - [1] A RL friend of mine recently joined Eve, so I've been jumpcloneing down to lowly 'ol empire to fly around with him, and doing the usual - mining, level one missions etc, its an all right start for him, but not very profitable esp. since his main income is production and he's already passed 10m isk in the wallet. So I considered taking him to some far off deserted lowsec, scouting out a nice piece of lowsec for the first time in almost a year, I find... - The Rats Suck!, the best ones I saw were 170k cruisers and a load of 10k frigs, compare that to 1.5m isk BS spawns in 0.0 and lowsec is just pitiful. - The Ore Sucks! Hemorphite is barely better than Omber, Jaspet is worthless in these days of the Zyd crash. - The Complexs? probably suck, I assume the best you can find in lowsec is 5/10's, and although I've never run one, I have run 6/10's enough to know that your better off just running exploration sites, or just farming empire 3/10's like everyone else. My Fix's... - Lowsec rat spawns up to 500k BC's, more cruiser spawns per belt, add in some warp scramming frigs just to make it a little more risky, lose all the normal 10k frigates - there just creating useless lag, perhaps add in the odd 750k BS spawn. Also adjust the sec status gain accordingley, makeing it easyer for pirates to stay comfortabley >< without being forced to hit 0.0 to regain sec status. - Adjust the mineral values of lowsec ores such as Hemorphite and Hedbergite (could there be a more useless ore than Hedbergite?)something in the order of a +15% boost would be just fine, perhaps make Spodumain a rarely found lowsec ore to give lowsec miners some source of megacyte, and something to fight over. - Add new flavours of low-end ores, such as +15%, +20%, +25% variants of Veldspar, Scordite, Pyroxeres and Plagioclase only found in 0.4 and below, including 0.0 as I think the 0.0 ship builders would appreciate it too, mining low end ores in 0.0 is teh suck. - Complex's - not sure if these need boosting mainly because I not a big fan of static, farmable isk fountains, perhaps add in some 6/10's at most, but more importantly - Remove all keys needed for progression within the complex's so that combat can actually take place within them and farmers can not lock them selfs inside safe in there isk spawning machines. - Instead of making static complex's better, just make a wide variation of exploration sites available with decent rewards, perhaps including rare faction drops in the harder to find ones, but most importantly make them plentiful enough so you can be almost guaranteed of finding at least one site per constellation per hour. I warn you I am wearing a thermal reflective suit made from the scraped hulls of dead Amarr transport ships, any flames will be reflected back at you. -
Zhett Haukes Shih Yang Tong	Posted - 2007.04.15 16:56:00 - [2] As a player who lives permenantly in lowsec - and wishes more people did the same, I wholely agree with all your points!
William Hamilton	Posted - 2007.04.15 18:18:00 - [3] +25% ore FTW! I agree with all your points, good post!
Ben Booley Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2007.04.15 18:20:00 - [4] I'm not totally sure on the numbers, but this looks like a great idea to make more people leave their hisec hidey-holes and come out to lowsec.
Shaemell Buttleson Darwin With Attitude RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.15 18:23:00 - [5] I totaly agree something needs to be done to make Low-sec more attractive to 90% of tyhe eve player base. Your signature was inappropriate, email [email protected] to find out why (don't forget to include a link to it) -Sahwoolo
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.15 18:25:00 - [6] Originally by: Alski - Add new flavours of low-end ores, such as +15%, +20%, +25% variants of Veldspar, Scordite, Pyroxeres and Plagioclase only found in 0.4 and below, including 0.0 as I think the 0.0 ship builders would appreciate it too, mining low end ores in 0.0 is teh suck. Best. Idea. Ever. Seriously, adding new varieties of the existing ore types is genius- I'm not sure why that one hasn't bee suggested in boost-low-sec threads before. --------
ToxicFire Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire	Posted - 2007.04.15 18:31:00 - [7] Carrot method doesn't work in pulling people out of high sec, CCP's already taken the stick approach. Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
Chr0nosX	Posted - 2007.04.15 18:32:00 - [8] This would attract alot more people. A very good idea.
Riddick Valer	Posted - 2007.04.15 18:35:00 - [9] Better rats and mining would go a long way towards building up some player base in low-sec that doesn't consist of a 300 mission runners and 3000 wanna-be pirates.
Fswd	Posted - 2007.04.15 18:40:00 - [10] Edited by: Fswd on 15/04/2007 18:36:31 I like it! Now, let us all await the replies of the anti-macro tinfoilers. --- So I flame and troll when the occasion calls for it. So what are you gonna do about it?
Fren Mallow Gallente Bluestar Enterprises	Posted - 2007.04.15 18:45:00 - [11] Originally by: ToxicFire Carrot method doesn't work in pulling people out of high sec, CCP's already taken the stick approach. And why did I come to low sec (from high sec), scanning for exploration sites(), then?! The carrot method actually worked mate, at least for me. Even more interesting for you might be, that I actually plan to go to .0 sec, as in low sec those flavors I like become rare already due to competition - again.. go figure And for the "risk vs. reward record".. I calculate a total loss of my whole equipment (100M Cov Ops with riggs, 30M BC and 40M Implants) every 4-5 sig findings and would come out on an profit of possibly 100% That's all what makes me come there.. the risk vs. reward actually is ok for this kind of job and kind of sig I'm after. So, see ya around ToxicFire ) for high sec exploration all the good flavors are emptied faster than you can pull out your multi probes . www.bluestar-enterprises.de Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
JOAT STAR	Posted - 2007.04.15 18:47:00 - [12] 25+ of any ore is nowhere near enough reward to risk over 1bil of goodies wrapped up in a paper thin barge. Simple as that.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.15 18:48:00 - [13] Originally by: Fswd Edited by: Fswd on 15/04/2007 18:36:31 I like it! Now, let us all await the replies of the anti-macro tinfoilers. Macroers in low-sec isn't such a problem. At least you can blow them up in low sec. Its the high-sec ones you've got to worry about. --------
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.15 19:09:00 - [14] Originally by: Ben Booley I'm not totally sure on the numbers, but this looks like a great idea to make more people leave their hisec hidey-holes and come out to lowsec. Originally by: JOAT STAR 25+ of any ore is nowhere near enough reward to risk over 1bil of goodies wrapped up in a paper thin barge. Simple as that. Ahhh damn! yes, i broke my own number one "ideas rule" - never post numbers because the key to ballance is all in the maths. i'll add my disclaimer now - all numbers are just a rough guide in the direction they need to go, it would of course be up to CCP to figure out the correct ballance, but i think we can all agree that as they are now the ballance is wrong. Something i forgot to mention is that since CCP are going to completeley change the rats, makeing them biger, thougher, worth more etc, that upcomeing revision would be a perfect opertunity to fix that broken aspect of lowsec. -
Ryan Scouse'UK	Posted - 2007.04.15 19:12:00 - [15] 500k BS in low sec... will just gain people more isk to quickly would it not ? .. Which means.. prices would go up to balance it out ..i.e everyone would have millions / billions of isk.. so the prices go up to reflect what is called profit.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.04.15 19:19:00 - [16] Originally by: Patch86 Originally by: Alski - Add new flavours of low-end ores, such as +15%, +20%, +25% variants of Veldspar, Scordite, Pyroxeres and Plagioclase only found in 0.4 and below, including 0.0 as I think the 0.0 ship builders would appreciate it too, mining low end ores in 0.0 is teh suck. Best. Idea. Ever. Seriously, adding new varieties of the existing ore types is genius- I'm not sure why that one hasn't bee suggested in boost-low-sec threads before. How is this better then higher ore-types? Does it have to do with the mineral make-up and differentiating LoSec from 0.0? I know zilch about mining, and am genuinely curious. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Amphetaminer Grumpy Old Men	Posted - 2007.04.15 19:19:00 - [17] only the price of rare stuff.. a t2 mod wont go up in price if people produce it..
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.15 19:21:00 - [18] Originally by: Ryan Scouse'UK 500k BS in low sec... will just gain people more isk to quickly would it not ? .. Which means.. prices would go up to balance it out ..i.e everyone would have millions / billions of isk.. so the prices go up to reflect what is called profit. well i did say they should be rare, not the norm, and haveing spent time in a part of 0.0 where there were common 2m isk BS spawns, and now liveing in 0.0 where there are common tripple 1.2m isk spawns in systems with 20 belts, i can safeley say that rare 500k spawns will not get you into a CNR, Vindicator or capital particuley fast, esp since lowsec will allways be less secure than 0.0 and you will be safespoting, fighting and getting blown up enouth to counter the reward. -
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.04.15 19:21:00 - [19] Originally by: Ryan Scouse'UK 500k BS in low sec... will just gain people more isk to quickly would it not ? .. Which means.. prices would go up to balance it out ..i.e everyone would have millions / billions of isk.. so the prices go up to reflect what is called profit. It's true, but a higher percentage of isk would be going to LoSec inhabitants. Considering the dangers of LoSec, that's a good trade-off. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Two Minds Twilight Void M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.04.15 19:22:00 - [20] Low sec definitely needs boosting. Right now the only reason to go there is to pass through. Some BS spawns maybe up to 1 million and some better ore would be great.
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.15 19:28:00 - [21] Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Originally by: Patch86 Originally by: Alski - Add new flavours of low-end ores, such as +15%, +20%, +25% variants of Veldspar, Scordite, Pyroxeres and Plagioclase only found in 0.4 and below, including 0.0 as I think the 0.0 ship builders would appreciate it too, mining low end ores in 0.0 is teh suck. Best. Idea. Ever. Seriously, adding new varieties of the existing ore types is genius- I'm not sure why that one hasn't bee suggested in boost-low-sec threads before. How is this better then higher ore-types? Does it have to do with the mineral make-up and differentiating LoSec from 0.0? I know zilch about mining, and am genuinely curious. Mainley because you can't build a battleship out of pure Zyd One major problem with 0.0 production and mining is that people come to 0.0 for the megacyte and the zyd, as soon as the miners find out they are gonna have to mine as much tritanium as they do the good stuff just to keep there cheep ships and modules flowing there illusions of profit tend to evaporate and they end up just ratting like everyone else, i'm sure in an effot to repopulate lowsec people would find the exact same problem. I say "would" because right now the mining in lowsec is so bad there is no incentive for miners or producers to go out there anyway. -
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.04.15 19:42:00 - [22] Better rats would provide Pirates with better equipment and earning potential, when crime is already too easy and has no downside or counter. The roids could attract carebears with teeth, thus providing Pirates with some competition for lowsec space, that would be good. So. Better roids, good. Better rats, bad. If you want better rats, go to 0.0, stake a claim and have something to lose, then you can have the right to fat money.
JoDirt Minmatar House of Geezer	Posted - 2007.04.15 19:50:00 - [23] If they implemented your idea, I would come to low sec.
Callthetruth Caldari Logical Logtistics	Posted - 2007.04.15 19:56:00 - [24] Originally by: Alski A RL friend of mine recently joined Eve, so I've been jumpcloneing down to lowly 'ol empire to fly around with him, and doing the usual - mining, level one missions etc, its an all right start for him, but not very profitable esp. since his main income is production and he's already passed 10m isk in the wallet. So I considered taking him to some far off deserted lowsec, scouting out a nice piece of lowsec for the first time in almost a year, I find... - The Rats Suck!, the best ones I saw were 170k cruisers and a load of 10k frigs, compare that to 1.5m isk BS spawns in 0.0 and lowsec is just pitiful. - The Ore Sucks! Hemorphite is barely better than Omber, Jaspet is worthless in these days of the Zyd crash. - The Complexs? probably suck, I assume the best you can find in lowsec is 5/10's, and although I've never run one, I have run 6/10's enough to know that your better off just running exploration sites, or just farming empire 3/10's like everyone else. My Fix's... - Lowsec rat spawns up to 500k BC's, more cruiser spawns per belt, add in some warp scramming frigs just to make it a little more risky, lose all the normal 10k frigates - there just creating useless lag, perhaps add in the odd 750k BS spawn. Also adjust the sec status gain accordingley, makeing it easyer for pirates to stay comfortabley >< without being forced to hit 0.0 to regain sec status. - Adjust the mineral values of lowsec ores such as Hemorphite and Hedbergite (could there be a more useless ore than Hedbergite?)something in the order of a +15% boost would be just fine, perhaps make Spodumain a rarely found lowsec ore to give lowsec miners some source of megacyte, and something to fight over. - Add new flavours of low-end ores, such as +15%, +20%, +25% variants of Veldspar, Scordite, Pyroxeres and Plagioclase only found in 0.4 and below, including 0.0 as I think the 0.0 ship builders would appreciate it too, mining low end ores in 0.0 is teh suck. - Complex's - not sure if these need boosting mainly because I not a big fan of static, farmable isk fountains, perhaps add in some 6/10's at most, but more importantly - Remove all keys needed for progression within the complex's so that combat can actually take place within them and farmers can not lock them selfs inside safe in there isk spawning machines. - Instead of making static complex's better, just make a wide variation of exploration sites available with decent rewards, perhaps including rare faction drops in the harder to find ones, but most importantly make them plentiful enough so you can be almost guaranteed of finding at least one site per constellation per hour. I warn you I am wearing a thermal reflective suit made from the scraped hulls of dead Amarr transport ships, any flames will be reflected back at you. more exploration sites ( sp plentifiul ones would be good) originally CCP indicated 10 per sytem we get on average 2 at best not good enough seed more
Shadowsword Kermit Space Industies	Posted - 2007.04.15 20:43:00 - [25] Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Originally by: Ryan Scouse'UK 500k BS in low sec... will just gain people more isk to quickly would it not ? .. Which means.. prices would go up to balance it out ..i.e everyone would have millions / billions of isk.. so the prices go up to reflect what is called profit. It's true, but a higher percentage of isk would be going to LoSec inhabitants. Considering the dangers of LoSec, that's a good trade-off. When the low-sec inhabitant is the source of the dangers (aka mister pirate), all it does it that he make up his losses faster and camp gates more. Low-sec does need a boost in profitability, but for this to work you need to drive piracy from the gates back into the belts first. ------------------------------------------ A big nuke may be nice in a strategy game, but something like this in a game where every unit is a player, and each death costly, is insane.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.04.15 22:20:00 - [26] Originally by: Cipher7 Better rats would provide Pirates with better equipment and earning potential, when crime is already too easy and has no downside or counter. Because of its accessibility, non-pirate ratters would also come to LowSec. Also, when pirates are ratting, they're not pirating. Quote: If you want better rats, go to 0.0, stake a claim and have something to lose, then you can have the right to fat money. 500k top-end normal spawns are fat money? * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.04.15 22:30:00 - [27] Edited by: Tsanse Kinske on 15/04/2007 22:28:12 Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Originally by: Ryan Scouse'UK 500k BS in low sec... will just gain people more isk to quickly would it not ? .. Which means.. prices would go up to balance it out ..i.e everyone would have millions / billions of isk.. so the prices go up to reflect what is called profit. It's true, but a higher percentage of isk would be going to LoSec inhabitants. Considering the dangers of LoSec, that's a good trade-off. When the low-sec inhabitant is the source of the dangers (aka mister pirate), all it does it that he make up his losses faster and camp gates more. There's some truth to this, though I wouldn't call it all-together a bad thing. Plus there's the fact that most LoSec gatecamps are LOL-worthy. You are also assuming that the proportion of pirating to non-pirating activities remains the same. I don't think it would. Quote: Low-sec does need a boost in profitability, but for this to work you need to drive piracy from the gates back into the belts first. I don't really follow you. Explain more please? edit: And Alski, thanks for the explanation on ore. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Drakus Minmatar all professions	Posted - 2007.04.15 22:56:00 - [28] i like everything but the no key complexe idea. Mainly because having keys makes running them profitiable. If someone could jump in behind you and catch you trying to tank the rats as well as them, then your screwed. Now, i'm not against piracy, i just think that changing something thats not broken won't help the situation.
Strubbs	Posted - 2007.04.15 23:00:00 - [29] I often get the feeling that when lowsec was thought out it wasn't thought of as a more lucrative alternative to hi-sec, rather it was thought of as an intermediary between hi-sec and 0.0 for combat. The carrot and the stick method to get people out can work. It hasn't worked because the carrot was pretty pathetic. With level 5+ going to lo-sec exclusively in combination with better quality ores, then maybe the isk would be enough. regarding missions, from first hand experience, i can say that I made more money from hi-sec lvl 4s because I never lost ships. Once I moved into lo-sec i was constantly probed out. Not by dumb luck either, it was because the players probing were a corp that did nothing but look for the few mission runners on their mains while running missions themselves on their alts (they defintely are doing things right). It was the same in many places and after getting fed up of moving everywhere i just went back to my original, laggy, congested hi-sec agent because I wasn't about to take on corps and even alliances myself. The only feasible things were to a.) join them (which would be cool) or b.) leave, like I did.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.04.15 23:01:00 - [30] Originally by: ToxicFire Carrot method doesn't work in pulling people out of high sec, CCP's already taken the stick approach. Must've been one puny carrot. Add casinos in low sec, add black market bazaars in low sec, problem solved. Also Known As

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