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Rattlesnake's tank vs. ????

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Dracu1a Gallente Warrior Nation United	Posted - 2007.04.16 05:45:00 - [1] I think the rattlesnake is amazing due to what ive heard its tanking capabilities are. Unfourtunately im not caldari and have no plans on training them, so my question is this. What would be the Gallente equivalent? The obvious choice is probably the Navy Megathron, but I'd just like to know how its tanking capabilities compare to a rattlesnake. I'd like to see what realistic faction/officer setups would look like on a navy thron that would put it close to a rattlesnake (If there is even any chance of it coming close to the tank on that thing).
Marduk Felzhen	Posted - 2007.04.16 06:24:00 - [2] I believe the counterpart would be the vindicator, not the navy thron. That being said, im not sure of any setups sorry
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.04.16 07:17:00 - [3] Basically, it won't even come close, as high-end shield tanking equipment with crystal implants is obscene. ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Elenor Tri Optimum Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.04.16 07:46:00 - [4] well rattle gets not shield boost bonus... so a hyperion with two officer/deadspace reps would pretty much outttank a rattlesnake. When u want to stick to faction, that woulr then probally be the navy mega, with two faction/deadspace reps, faction hardeners, rig, and high grad armor set.
mematar Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.04.16 07:52:00 - [5] Originally by: Elenor well rattle gets not shield boost bonus... so a hyperion with two officer/deadspace reps would pretty much outttank a rattlesnake. When u want to stick to faction, that woulr then probally be the navy mega, with two faction/deadspace reps, faction hardeners, rig, and high grad armor set. It wont outtank it, even if it doesnt receive the bonus. Calculate it yourself if you dont believe it.
Jayne Tamm	Posted - 2007.04.16 07:54:00 - [6] vindicator is good.....but that also requires minmatar bs lvl1...just like the rattlesnake requires cal bs1....so if u were gona train for that, u mite as well train for the rattlesnake. i think the navy mega is prob the equivalent, but its tank cant compete with the rattlesnakes.
dalman Finite Horizon	Posted - 2007.04.16 08:09:00 - [7] If I could turn my 38% Chelm eanms (and the 2M SP in skills needed) for 50% invulnerability fields... If I could turn my "crappy" +HP bonus from implants into +56% rep ammount... If I could have a medslot non-stackingpenalty module to further build resistance like the damage control... If I could have a stupidly overpowered repper that hardly use cap (like the angel boosters)... Then we could start talking about armor repairing. But as it is, an armor repping ship isn't getting close to what shield-tanked battleships can do. Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
tiller Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.04.16 08:49:00 - [8] Edited by: tiller on 16/04/2007 08:45:55 I've been using snake for a few weeks now in PVP and it's pretty good. Thing is, faction ships really need a little boost now as the t3 BS tank better.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.04.16 08:55:00 - [9] Mega navy issue. __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. I am minmatar,fly amarr,use gellente drones and am in caldari space.
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill	Posted - 2007.04.16 09:42:00 - [10] A navy thron with similar ISK to spend as on the rattle will tank almost equal.. - 2x repper - 1x damage control T2 - 2x EANM T2 - KIN, EXP, THE hardeners as opposed to the rattlesnake: - 1x booster - 1x boost amp - EM, KIN, THE hardeners - injector (only 6 midslots, all filled up) With both kitted with proper faction gear, DPS tanked is about the same. Navy thron has higher resists, rattle has more HP/s healed. Mind you the rattle loses one medslot to an injector whereas the navy thron can dedicate all its lows to tanking. Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Radio is essential for Amarr, to call the much needed backup...
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.04.16 11:07:00 - [11] Originally by: Sokratesz A navy thron with similar ISK to spend as on the rattle will tank almost equal.. - 2x repper - 1x damage control T2 - 2x EANM T2 - KIN, EXP, THE hardeners as opposed to the rattlesnake: - 1x booster - 1x boost amp - EM, KIN, THE hardeners - injector (only 6 midslots, all filled up) With both kitted with proper faction gear, DPS tanked is about the same. Navy thron has higher resists, rattle has more HP/s healed. Mind you the rattle loses one medslot to an injector whereas the navy thron can dedicate all its lows to tanking. With T2 is about the same, but start using Gist Xl boosters and you have a tank that doesnt require a injector but can use another kaikka modified or dread guristas invul field. Even in the nos world we live in, 2* faction nos and faction pdu + CCC rigs make sure you can handle 6 nos before you cannot run it 23/7 anymore. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
dalman Finite Horizon	Posted - 2007.04.16 15:18:00 - [12] Edited by: dalman on 16/04/2007 15:16:19 Originally by: Sokratesz A navy thron with similar ISK to spend as on the rattle will tank almost equal.. Tada! You hit the nail in the first line and could have stopped there. Though you should have said "the rattlesnake with similiar isk to to spend as on the navythron". The best shield tanking mods cost so much more than the best armor tanking mods, because they are so much better. That doesn't mean the game is anywhere near balanced at the "high end" side - only that we have a working economy in EVE. For just the most badass (non-capital)tank possible in the game, you should ofc not be flying a rattlesnake but rather a scorpion or perhaps a fleet command ship. But I guess you want some damage output as well ;) Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.04.16 15:29:00 - [13] Originally by: dalman Edited by: dalman on 16/04/2007 15:16:19 Originally by: Sokratesz A navy thron with similar ISK to spend as on the rattle will tank almost equal.. Tada! You hit the nail in the first line and could have stopped there. Though you should have said "the rattlesnake with similiar isk to to spend as on the navythron". The best shield tanking mods cost so much more than the best armor tanking mods, because they are so much better. That doesn't mean the game is anywhere near balanced at the "high end" side - only that we have a working economy in EVE. For just the most badass (non-capital)tank possible in the game, you should ofc not be flying a rattlesnake but rather a scorpion or perhaps a fleet command ship. But I guess you want some damage output as well ;) Do they? Seriously, kitting raven(or its faction variants out) is cheaper than bhaalgorn, those centus xtype reps aren't exactly cheap. Same with injector. For gallente vs rattlesnake, hyperion + 2x centus rep + nanobot accelerators+ pumps works quite well, costs fckload though and actually require chelm's or dual injector to run sufficiently. Vindicator is good choice since it has more cap, but still have cap problems. But serious question, can rattlesnake actually kill something? I mean, when you need gang to hold stuff there, ordinary raven with few damps & painters will work better. -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
dalman Finite Horizon	Posted - 2007.04.16 15:47:00 - [14] Originally by: LUKEC Do they? Seriously, kitting raven(or its faction variants out) is cheaper than bhaalgorn, those centus xtype reps aren't exactly cheap. Same with injector. Yes and no. Imo, it's a matter of supply and demand. There's 2 factions dropping shield and 3 dropping armor. And I'd say more than 3/5 of the playerbase is armor tanking. And pretty much all of the pimped shieldstuff goes into missionrunners only - which are "one time buyers" unlike the armor mods used in PvP. note - typicly you'll only fly truely pimped (3B+) ships in solo/very small gangs. Then shield tanking isn't very convinient and few ships are useful. The only modules where the difference can really be seen is the ones where there's no X-type deadspace version. Like invulnerability fields. On the other hand I'm fully aware the prices of officer eanms are affected by the corpum/corelum/centum A-type versions. But I think it's safe to say that if we started to get pithum and gistum A-type invulni fields with 48ish% to all resistance dropping en masse, that would change gameplay very much. And if complexes were thrown out of the game and we would have officers only, we'd see some interesting prices... Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
LeMoose The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.04.16 15:59:00 - [15] ive used this on a rattlesnake: (dont even try and locator agent me cause ive sold all that stuff ;p) 2x gist xl xtype xl 1x estamels amp 1x 64% em hard 2x dg invuls lows: dcu t2 cant remember if i had 2 or 3 officer pdus+ rest ts pdu combined with crystal set normal grade plus 3x ccc rigs maid amazing tank, and yeah i used it in 0,0 ;P
Rathyn Mercer	Posted - 2007.04.16 17:09:00 - [16] Originally by: dalman Edited by: dalman on 16/04/2007 08:13:11 If I could turn my 38% Chelm eanms (and the 2M SP in skills needed) for 50% invulnerability fields... If I could turn my "crappy" +HP bonus from implants into +56% rep ammount... If I could have a medslot non-stackingpenalty module to further build resistance like the damage control... If I could have a stupidly overpowered repper that hardly use cap (like the angel boosters)... If I could have a +repammount module like shield tankers do... Then we could start talking about armor repairing. But as it is, an armor repping ship isn't getting close to what shield-tanked battleships can do. This has to be the best example of a typical whiner ive seen on the forums..I like the way Dalman says it.." OH if I could only have the best of the best then I could maybe compete."
Brisi Veto.	Posted - 2007.04.16 17:48:00 - [17] Originally by: Rathyn Mercer Originally by: dalman Edited by: dalman on 16/04/2007 08:13:11 If I could turn my 38% Chelm eanms (and the 2M SP in skills needed) for 50% invulnerability fields... If I could turn my "crappy" +HP bonus from implants into +56% rep ammount... If I could have a medslot non-stackingpenalty module to further build resistance like the damage control... If I could have a stupidly overpowered repper that hardly use cap (like the angel boosters)... If I could have a +repammount module like shield tankers do... Then we could start talking about armor repairing. But as it is, an armor repping ship isn't getting close to what shield-tanked battleships can do. This has to be the best example of a typical whiner ive seen on the forums..I like the way Dalman says it.." OH if I could only have the best of the best then I could maybe compete." This has to be the best example of a typical ALT whiner I've seen on the forums. I like the way he trolls Dalman's post, without actually making any constructive points, or adding anything to the discussion. Go end yourself. Resistance is Fertile.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.04.16 18:56:00 - [18] If you want to overtake ratlesnake tank.. get a Maesltrom or Rokh. Other ships simply cannot compete with them in tank without completely sacrify all damage mods or use ridiculows setups like 3 LAR II at same time (that will eat all your PG) If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Dracu1a Gallente Warrior Nation United	Posted - 2007.04.16 19:05:00 - [19] First off, thanks for everybody's replys. Good points here. What i'd like to now ask is, given both have high end mods (gisti x-type for the rattler, centus x-type for the navythron) who would be able to sustain the tank longer? Im having trouble visualizing which rigs would go better for the thron. On one hand you could use auxillary's to really kick up the rep amount, but would it be better to use all CCC's? Or possibly a mix? If the thron doesnt have armor pump rigs does that make it quite a bit inferior to the snake's tank?
VaderDSL Caldari Incoherent Inc	Posted - 2007.04.16 19:22:00 - [20] Edited by: VaderDSL on 16/04/2007 19:18:55 What about a Bhaalgorn, if they're still available with a full set of HG Talismans + the Omega? I know I have tanked over a dozen gank blasterthrons on the test server in a Nos Mega due to the fact with HG Talismans and Omega the Heavy nos fire stupidly quick. The Bhaalgorn could do this so much better also. Sometimes tanking isn't so much about absorbing lots of damage, taking away their ability to do damage can also work as an effective tank
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill	Posted - 2007.04.16 19:41:00 - [21] Edited by: Sokratesz on 16/04/2007 19:37:12 Bhaalgorn 8x best named / faction NOS 2x sensorbooster 1x backup array 2x web 3x rep (faction?) 3x hardener (THE, KIN, EXP) 1x EANM With rep amount rigs and talisman set = omgwtfbbq tank. As long as you dont lose lock, that is. Would be fun to use as bait for a gang. Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Radio is essential for Amarr, to call the much needed backup...
Alyth Gallente Ma-Ven Industries Phobos Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.16 20:06:00 - [22] Originally by: LUKEC But serious question, can rattlesnake actually kill something? I mean, when you need gang to hold stuff there, ordinary raven with few damps & painters will work better. Yes, the Rattler is a bit of a nasty bugger if you go for an "Estamel's" setup High 6x Estamel Siege Mid 1x Pith X-type LSB 3x Estamel's Modified Invulnerabity field 1x Pith X-type boost amp Low: 3x Estamels BCU 1x Estamels Copro 2x Dark Blood PDU Rigs: 3x CCC Crystal set Prolly cost you about 10b, but for a ship that basically cannot die it's worth it.
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.04.16 20:49:00 - [23] Edited by: LUKEC on 16/04/2007 20:46:07 Originally by: Sokratesz Edited by: Sokratesz on 16/04/2007 19:37:12 Bhaalgorn 8x best named / faction NOS 2x sensorbooster 1x backup array 2x web 3x rep (faction?) 3x hardener (THE, KIN, EXP) 1x EANM With rep amount rigs and talisman set = omgwtfbbq tank. As long as you dont lose lock, that is. Would be fun to use as bait for a gang. Doesn't fit Only serious 3 rep attempt was 3x rep, 3x 28% eanm, officer cpu and 4 or 5 guns simply because nosfs didn't fit cpuwise. I think i had mwd though, but that's only like 50cpu more than other medslot stuff. 3 rep without injector is only good for killing capitals though, simply you don't have anything to get cap from(or maybe logistic drone thingie still work :D ) -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.04.16 22:23:00 - [24] yep for a proper bhaalgorn setup, you actually need to use cruisersized 19 km M nos...if it wasnt for its rareness, that thing would be cheaper than fleet tempest. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill	Posted - 2007.04.16 22:40:00 - [25] Originally by: Alyth Prolly cost you about 10b, but for a ship that basically cannot die it's worth it. 10b? make that 50 for the triple invu fields \o/ Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Radio is essential for Amarr, to call the much needed backup...
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.04.17 08:00:00 - [26] Originally by: madaluap yep for a proper bhaalgorn setup, you actually need to use cruisersized 19 km M nos...if it wasnt for its rareness, that thing would be cheaper than fleet tempest. Well there are ways around it, but i really hate the fact that it doesn't get bonus to neuts. -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
Springul	Posted - 2007.04.17 08:48:00 - [27] Originally by: Alyth Originally by: LUKEC But serious question, can rattlesnake actually kill something? I mean, when you need gang to hold stuff there, ordinary raven with few damps & painters will work better. Yes, the Rattler is a bit of a nasty bugger if you go for an "Estamel's" setup High 6x Estamel Siege Mid 1x Pith X-type LSB 3x Estamel's Modified Invulnerabity field 1x Pith X-type boost amp Low: 3x Estamels BCU 1x Estamels Copro 2x Dark Blood PDU Rigs: 3x CCC Crystal set Prolly cost you about 10b, but for a ship that basically cannot die it's worth it. You are a ~bit~off on the price tag, you see, the last time I checked, the invuln fields alone are worth about 30b, which still leaves all the other stuff, I'm betting the booster, the amp and the BCUs are also pretty damned expensive
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.04.17 10:13:00 - [28] The short of it: There were screenshots posted some time back of a Rattlesnake that could tank over 3000 dps forever. You'll never achieve that with armour tanking gear... ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Elenor Tri Optimum Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.04.17 10:54:00 - [29] Originally by: mematar Originally by: Elenor well rattle gets not shield boost bonus... so a hyperion with two officer/deadspace reps would pretty much outttank a rattlesnake. When u want to stick to faction, that woulr then probally be the navy mega, with two faction/deadspace reps, faction hardeners, rig, and high grad armor set. It wont outtank it, even if it doesnt receive the bonus. Calculate it yourself if you dont believe it. Ok lets do the math then =) Ok so iam picking a hyperion with Centus Hardener, and a dual chelms modified large rep. With two Rigs, id get 2494.8 armor from every repper, every 11.25 seconds, so in total i recieve about 4989.6 armor, seconds whise for comparing it to a shield tank, i would get 443.52 armor. I know that this is far from being realtistic, but its one way to compare amror vs shield tank. The rattle fitted with 3x thons Invus, a Gist X-Type XL and two estamel boost amps and lows full of chelms pdus, is getting 1416.74 every 4 seconds. So this would get 354.19 Shield every second. Too boost shield even more, ive put in two shield recharge rigs, and one shield Cap rig, this would bring in 34.5 peer seconds, natural recharge rate, and give you more shield. So without implants you land, with the hyperion on top, which is just pure tanking, thats because you simply get a bonus that the rattle doenst get. Using some kind of the same setup, with a maelstrom and Mimatar bs level 5, you even get 2000 shield hps evrey four seconds. For me in a nutshell, its obvious that with the tier 3 bs, faction bs lost some of their attraction, as those are quiet easy to fit, and have loads of options. About shield tanking vs armor tanking, iam a fan of armor tanking, as it gives me the option to have my ew in the meds, i lmfao when i see those uber tanked rokh/maelstrom, with no scrambler on, cause its pointless, when u tank like a elphant but then cant scrambler at least one target.
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.04.17 10:59:00 - [30] Edited by: LUKEC on 17/04/2007 10:57:24 Originally by: Gabriel Karade The short of it: There were screenshots posted some time back of a Rattlesnake that could tank over 3000 dps forever. You'll never achieve that with armour tanking gear... Kayo's rattlesnake is cheatzoring, since he has vulture with maxed skills in gang :) However, bhaalgorn with 3 reps and 3x 28% eanms + damnation can tank something like 5k dps (2x mothership) and as long as you fight capital ships cap isn't really problem But rokh in similar situation can prob. tank more than 8k dps -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.

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