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Salvaging other peoples wrecks needs to be a criminal act !!!!!!!

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Lavinrac Krad Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.05 23:05:00 - [181] Edited by: Lavinrac Krad on 05/10/2007 23:08:21 My solution, get rid of can flagging, meaning anyone can loot/salvage any wreck/can without consequence. So looting and salvaging becomes "first come, first served." -Sig Starts- Why donÆt you show us on the dolly where the bad miner touched you. -Thesas THE NERF BAT COMETH! REPENT SINNER! --If I were god, then I'd nerf mice and men, like in that sayin
Dark Divinities	Posted - 2007.10.05 23:22:00 - [182] Originally by: Lavinrac Krad Edited by: Lavinrac Krad on 05/10/2007 23:08:21 My solution, get rid of can flagging, meaning anyone can loot/salvage any wreck/can without consequence. So looting and salvaging becomes "first come, first served." ... and thankfully, CCP has created a game which supports multiple rule sets based on the needs and desires of multiple communities of players. I would have NO PROBLEM with your suggestion in 0.0 space where everything is basically "free for all"... but in low sec there are more limits on griefing behavior and high sec where there are even stricter limits, this suggestion makes no sense. If you really want to suggest this, why don't you create a new thread called "Ditch Empire and make EvE 100% 0.0"
Dr Grot Gallente Warrior Eclipse	Posted - 2007.10.05 23:34:00 - [183] My 2 pence worth, Leave the wreck system alone. I don't probe out mission runners and steal wrecks coz I don't have the probing skills but if I did then I might. If your falling victim of "wreck thieves" as you call them then tough luck. There's nothing stopping you doing the same to others. There's no problem here as far as I'm concerned
Lavinrac Krad Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.06 05:01:00 - [184] Edited by: Lavinrac Krad on 06/10/2007 05:00:57 Originally by: Dark Divinities Originally by: Lavinrac Krad Edited by: Lavinrac Krad on 05/10/2007 23:08:21 My solution, get rid of can flagging, meaning anyone can loot/salvage any wreck/can without consequence. So looting and salvaging becomes "first come, first served." ... and thankfully, CCP has created a game which supports multiple rule sets based on the needs and desires of multiple communities of players. I would have NO PROBLEM with your suggestion in 0.0 space where everything is basically "free for all"... but in low sec there are more limits on griefing behavior and high sec where there are even stricter limits, this suggestion makes no sense. If you really want to suggest this, why don't you create a new thread called "Ditch Empire and make EvE 100% 0.0" Actually, 0.0 is the place where you can ATTACK people without retribution. In high sec you get people flagged and then can ATTACK them without retribution, so really people who want flagging are more interested in 0.0 type PvP. Some guy with a bunch of savagers and cargo expanders is not attacking you and is not interested in PvP. -Sig Starts- Why donÆt you show us on the dolly where the bad miner touched you. -Thesas THE NERF BAT COMETH! REPENT SINNER! --If I were god, then I'd nerf mice and men, like in that sayin
Capista Alisplin	Posted - 2007.10.07 03:40:00 - [185] I've read through the topic.... I confess i'm a garbage collector... I float around and pick up abandoned wrecks.. If the wrecker is still in the system I ask them if I can have the wrecks and even throw them some cash if I actually do salvage something from them.. What it all really comes down to is respect... Disrespect is following a guy doing missions and stealing his wrecks... Garbage floating around is just as it is..someones elses garbage.. If the owner came back and was ****ed about the salvaging then I return what I took... Be honest that is the biggest part of respect..
Lugburz	Posted - 2007.10.07 11:48:00 - [186] Typically salvage is first come first serve thats normal in real life right? maybe put a timer on it, say 15 minutes, if u dont move it you lose it and it becomes fair game for anyone.
Dretzle Omega Caldari Psychedelic Party Stellar Economy Experts	Posted - 2007.10.08 15:18:00 - [187] Originally by: Lugburz Typically salvage is first come first serve thats normal in real life right? maybe put a timer on it, say 15 minutes, if u dont move it you lose it and it becomes fair game for anyone. The cargo of a downed ship is considered salvage in real life as well, so if you're going to base things on real life, you should probably do it for everything. ------------------- 4 8 15 16 23 42 108
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.10.08 20:21:00 - [188] Originally by: Dark Divinities Salvaging other people's mission WHILE they are doing it (the wrecks weren't abandoned) should be a criminal act. Salvaging wrecks left to rot by someone with no interest or skills in salvaging should be fair game. Why is this so difficult for people to comprehend? CCP? They're more interested in griefing than risk free ISK, though rat battleship salvage where you only had to risk a t1 frig is moderately attractive. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.10.08 22:54:00 - [189] Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 08/10/2007 22:55:19 Originally by: Xaen Besides, I think this and this is pretty obvious evidence of malicious intent. Malicious intent is perfectly legal and even encouraged in this game, or didn't you know that? Surely you do know that. This game does not give you the option to excuse yourself from PvP. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
syphurous Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.08 23:38:00 - [190] Originally by: Xaen They're more interested in griefing than risk free ISK, though rat battleship salvage where you only had to risk a t1 frig is moderately attractive. Still bumping and moaning ? 1 out of 10000 people care, 9999, dont have an issue. Its working as intended, deal with it. ___ Too Many Anchored Cans
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.10.09 03:20:00 - [191] Originally by: syphurous Originally by: Xaen They're more interested in griefing than risk free ISK, though rat battleship salvage where you only had to risk a t1 frig is moderately attractive. Still bumping and moaning ? 1 out of 10000 people care, 9999, dont have an issue. Its working as intended, deal with it. EAD & DIAF. Sequence negotiable. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI
ollobrains White Wolf Enterprises	Posted - 2007.10.09 05:33:00 - [192] yawn land
SEN TAKOO	Posted - 2007.10.14 22:11:00 - [193] Its hard enough trying to get the salvage you need to build rigs and then have some jerk-off come to your mission and take only the large wrecks, people in this post have given good arguments on both sides, but to be honest ccp wants people to get the wrecks out of the systems for lag reasons. CCP wants people to go into the profession of salvaging and thats how they got them to do it, if I didnt belong to a corp that thought it wrong I would be scanning out people running missions and salvaging off them as well. yes it is a respect thing to ask before you salvage other peoples missions, but how much respect do you get in this game anyways?
pandymen Caldari Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2007.10.15 16:54:00 - [194] Honestly, engaging people stealing from your wrecks is never really in your best interest anyway. As I said earlier and I will repeat again, your mission fitted raven won't do much to a pvp fitted char. You attack them, they warp away, they come back with a pvp battleship and pwn your face. It's that simple. You honestly don't want ppl gettin flagged in general because you won't be able to do anything about it anyway.
Dors Venabily	Posted - 2007.10.15 17:44:00 - [195] In my very humble opinion Salvaging wrecks should not be a flag after 30 minutes. That should give you enough time even if the guy is waiting there like vulture. If he does it within that time he should be toast. I do not mind ppl salvaging in general i am not really interested in that but there should be a sort of time period when you have exclusive rights on it. some kind of override to this would be good as well. You could override if you don't salvage so the folks that do don't have to wait all the time if you fine with them salvaging your wrecks.
Don West Caldari Eternal Pheonix Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2007.12.12 19:12:00 - [196] I don't like the idea of anyone coming to salvage a wreck after I've cleared the space for them. I did risk my ship, it did take me time to clear the pocket of space and I should have first rights at it. When I see someone come in to salvage my wrecks (sometimes when I'm still fighting) I lock the wrecks and destroy them. It cost the vultures in probes, and although I didn't get it, I know someone else didn't steal it from me.
Ein Spiegel	Posted - 2008.01.06 05:39:00 - [197] I skipped about 8 pages of replies, so I'll apologize if someone already mentioned this. CCP is actually, with the salvaging system, continuing in tradition the current status quo in regards to the salvage industry as enshrined in a few treaties and commonly understood sense of maritime salvage. If someone's ship sinks, is destroyed, runs aground, pirates destroy you, whatever... the wreck of the ship does not belong to whomever destroyed it. It belongs to whomever can first arrive and claim salvage. Vagaries of international law and tradition, however, make removal of the freight (ie, loot) and various fittings of a ship a criminal act. (The shipper still owns freight, certain fittings are not part of the wreck and are still owned by the owner or perhaps the person who destroyed the ship. Law governing piracy and military fleet engagements may mean that the victor gains the spoils in this case.) But the actual floating or sunk hulk does not remain the property of the owner, or of the person who destroyed it. That twisted mass of recyclable material becomes the property of whomever can first arrive and begin salvaging operations. Of course, it varies from country to country, sovereign territorial waters, and general governmental climate, but CCP's non-stance (or rather, stance as stated in the "wrecks" information page on this site) about this speaks volumes. If a pirate comes along and I fight back, destroying their ship, the Coast Guard/Navy will still take a VERY dim view of me turning around and sinking the salvage ship that arrives just behind them. Of course, if you happen to be a lawyer specializing in salvage in international waters, please let me know if the system is much different from what I've said here.
Manipulator Minmatar	Posted - 2008.01.06 19:31:00 - [198] No one owns wrecks. See my sig.
Vaell'or Kurtanz	Posted - 2008.01.07 14:44:00 - [199] As alot have already said, check your international salvaging laws.. And as for myself and the rest of our Salvage corp. See you in space soon.
G Viking	Posted - 2008.01.07 14:49:00 - [200] Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Oh dear,, break out the old kleenex. Wrecks are wrecks are wrecks, and can and should be salvaged by anybody. Why should joe bloggs be criminally flagged for salvaging something which jane doe can't salvage.... You hit the point directly. Why should I be flagged for salvaging a wreck after the player who won the combat has either looted it or was nor interested in looting it because the cargo was not worth it for him. Especially after group minings you can seee dozends of ratships floating in space without beeing looted. But the most important point is that you have to learn salvaging and you ship has to be equipped for this job or the wreck (after looting) is worthless for you. If something should be changed in the game then I would apply for a deadline of 15 minutes or so, after this time all wrecks you be open for everyone for looting and slavaging without beeing flagged. I think all parties could live with such a rule
Angel DeMorphis Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.07 16:25:00 - [201] Originally by: Ein Spiegel I skipped about 8 pages of replies And that led you to necro an old thread. My sig taken from this site, so thoroughly explains the people I speak with on the forums
Gerry TheViking Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.07 20:36:00 - [202] Originally by: Dors Venabily In my very humble opinion Salvaging wrecks should not be a flag after 30 minutes. That should give you enough time even if the guy is waiting there like vulture. If he does it within that time he should be toast. I 100% agree with this opinion.
Blue Wraith	Posted - 2008.01.07 22:40:00 - [203] Salvage thieves should, at the least, be flagged. That way I at least have the option of retaliation. Personally, I probably wouldn't attack them unless I had corp mates nearby. But one thing I will do from now on is destroy my own wrecks if a thief enters my mission, starting with the ones they are salvaging. I credit that idea to someone else in this thread. Talk it up as nice as you want, but salvaging a yellow wreck is still thievery.
Darth Matt Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium	Posted - 2008.01.08 02:57:00 - [204] wow- this thread is long- and as typical not one dev response on their reasons or thoughts on the matter- maybe when it gets to be 50 pages of people explaining their displeasure of the ignorant system they have right now- they may chime in on why they chose to handle the current system so poorly- I run missions to pad up the wallet for pvp ships. I clear a level, then come back and salvage- if i hear or see a jerk uncloak whos setting a bookmark to the location to go grab his salvaging ship - i blow up all the wrecks and move on to the next mission-no free ride here- f that I need an acceleration gate to get to a deadspace (whatever the F that is) and these jerkwads scan for a few minutes and can warp right into this mystical "deadspace" that according to the fancy crap ass flavor text- cant be accessed except by acceleration gates. some hidden pocket of space- that has wierd phoenomenae that keeps micro warp drives from working - but keeps scumbag griefers quite happy, cause they can at will enter these **** zones and STEAL from whomever they want with ample protection from the fantasy cops- and the bozo that claims these thieves keep rigs prices low should self destruct- the comment shows little or not thought. and Im going to be forced to punch myself in the face until the pain blurs some of the ****** comments above. this thread is like each one i read when their is a 2 sided dispute- the exploiters (wreck THIEVES) say its a fair mechanic - deal with it, those who are being cheated- try and give a logical argument to the 12 year old whos stealing the wrecks and giggling. so, i close with the thought of a rabbit with a pancake on its head- because these arguments have taken a portion of my sanity away.
Xauxau Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.08 06:46:00 - [205] Originally by: Darth Matt {Snipped much "Waaa! Salvagers steal da loots" ranting} Im going to be forced to punch myself in the face until the pain blurs some of the ******** comments above. Please just keep it up until you fall unconscious. Some of us remember when there was no salvage. Its a nice bonus. Its obviously not a mission runners entitlement program.
Vaell'or Kurtanz Sick Cruel and Unusual Methods	Posted - 2008.01.08 11:12:00 - [206] Originally by: Darth Matt this thread is like each one i read when their is a 2 sided dispute- the exploiters (wreck THIEVES) say its a fair mechanic - deal with it, those who are being cheated- try and give a logical argument to the 12 year old whos stealing the wrecks and giggling. 1.Check international salvaging law's mate, you'll see exactley why CCP have it set as they do.. 2.In actuallity the "Salvage" corp i'm a part of is entirely made up of real life mates, all of which are in the late twenties/early thirties bracket.. 3.And yes we're doing this to make more isk for our pvp ships too.
realbadman	Posted - 2008.01.08 11:55:00 - [207] necro bad yes, lets flag salvager's. even though, imo, common sense says otherwise. then i'll be doing everything i can to 'suicide salvage' missions while mining faction fittings from cnr wrecks. can you imagine the screams if it was standard for high sec uber-miners to fit faction fittings? remember, ganking is good but ganking with a bit of griefing is pure bliss
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.01.08 12:44:00 - [208] Originally by: realbadman necro bad yes, lets flag salvager's. even though, imo, common sense says otherwise. then i'll be doing everything i can to 'suicide salvage' missions while mining faction fittings from cnr wrecks. can you imagine the screams if it was standard for high sec uber-miners to fit faction fittings? remember, ganking is good but ganking with a bit of griefing is pure bliss If you really want to be flagged, there's nothing stopping you from just taking some loot out of the wrecks while you're stealing salvage right now. If not... well, then I guess you* won't be stealing salvage. *whoever
Little Fistter	Posted - 2008.02.01 17:25:00 - [209] Originally by: Guillame Herschel Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 13/09/2007 23:53:28 Originally by: Yoinx Edited by: Yoinx on 13/09/2007 15:24:54 Originally by: Guillame Herschel No, the contents of the can within the wreck belong to the guy who shot it down. The wreck itself belongs to no one. Maybe you should try clicking on someone else's wreck, and checking to see if your name shows up on it. Then you can say nobody owns it. OK, fine. The SALVAGE in the wreck is owned by no one until a salvage module claims it. That the wreck is flagged with an owner is a side-effect of the fact that salvage was added after can looting, so the wrecks stands in for the can, until the wreck is gone. Happy now? Didn't think so. Hmmm. Let's go back to the concept of "deadspace" mission. I am thinking that while the mission is active the mission area is invisible to all probes. When the mission ends, wrecks should have a radioactive glow that makes them easy to probe using the free scanner. Further, while the mission is active, the precks and loot are exclusive to the pilot or gang or corp of the original killer. Touching the wreck in any way makes you a thief for thrity minutes. However, when mission ends, all wreck and salvage and loot is public and will persis an extra hour from the mission end. Lastly, a PLAYER wreck is the property of that player, and may only be touched by the player, his gangmates or corpmates. Thank you for a lively discussion! Suggestion: Please color jump gates the same color as the system security rating of the destination system in the overview.
Righteous Deeds	Posted - 2008.02.02 01:51:00 - [210] The bottom line is this rule protects those who will not take risks and allows them to profit from those who do, and who have spent their time creating the wrecks in the first place. The rules with loot and salvage should be the same...you can take it, but only if you buy your fair share of risk. Arguing that you should be able keep the fruits of other peoples labor for minimal effort on your own part is weak and gutless. The game doesn't need a class of coward highsec salvagers, but it can still reward salvagers with guts. The brave ones are making a good living in lowsec already.

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