c) Introduce at least one method for identifying or forcibly decloaking any cloaked ships. I'm keeping this intentionally vague as it will be a key balance issue, but possible methods include:

• Re-purpose Supercarrier ECM burst into anti-cloak pulse.
• Add a similar module for other ships - such as the Rorqual - to encourage it to be on-grid during mining ops.
• Starbase modules that can be manually controlled to emit an anti-cloak pulse within a given range (could require sov upgrade to use).
• New scan probes that will confirm the existence of a cloaked ship within a relatively small area, without giving away the exact location.

The idea behind all this is that it's still entirely possible to rack up the sneaky kills with clever use of your cloaking device, but a savvy player will still have various options to use before making themself vulnerable. Some of the suggestions at the end are deliberately intended to play on the risk/reward aspect of EVE - such as putting out capital ships to reduce the risk to smaller ones, while still facing risk themselves.

b) Any player with an active cloaking device is removed from Local. They cannot be seen there, and in turn cannot see anyone else there themselves.
Should the player be decloaked they return to the Local channel as normal.

This part is also bad. We don't need to make cloaked ships overpowered, and thus depopulate nullsec further than it already has.

Three Step plan

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b) Any player with an active cloaking device is removed from Local. They cannot be seen there, and in turn cannot see anyone else there themselves.
Should the player be decloaked they return to the Local channel as normal.

No. Don't nerf W-space into the ground.

This part is bad. What you're doing is nerfing the **** out of wormholes (for those things that could be used in wormholes) or setting a precedent for the nerfing the **** out of wormholes by breaking cloaks and the ability to remain in a system unknown and unseen gathering vital intel. The probes... horrible idea for that very reason. The other three... any sort of cloak-breaker introduced sets the precedent for adding or expanding in the future, which could spill over where it's not needed.

Simply by not seeing the cloaked vessel in local you've eliminated the whole "AFK cloak scares me" thing. Big thread in Features and Ideas already on that concept.

I disagree. The main effect should be 'always scared', as you never know if a system you jump into already has a cloaker. I think this will lead to alot more conflict in EVE in general, as people who don't take care when moving around will quickly be caught out.

Another facet of the change is that it rebalances the concept that cloaked people can have an effect on a system simply by being present in it. This is especially evident in the case of stealth bombers camping jumpbridges, who can choose to when to engage, do so already aligned out, and are very hard to trap unless they make a mistake.
By removing these bombers from local and stopping them from seeing whats coming, it adds more opportunities for them to be surprised.

If you'd read that thread, particularly the latter part, you'd have seen more objections against removing cloaked ships from local. Yes, removing local from them stops them from seeing what's coming, but that's easily circumvented by having a blue alt in system. What's worse is, however, that these cloaked gangs imply that those who actually inhabit a system has to watch all gates and all wormholes and keep an active anti-incursion gang going 23.5/7. We have a place for that, it's called wormholes.

And given all the extra work they'll have to do just to keep a system semi-safe, added with the lack of income and ecitement for those on guard duty, and I'd expect it'd take just a few weeks before nullsec's carebear population drains into hisec to make ISK there instead. I don't want nullsec to become even less populous than it already is, we've already seen the effects of the anom nerf on the population, do we really have to see the effect an increase in risk would have?

Unless, of course, nullsec is increased "somewhat" in profitability to make the extra work worth it. And even then I'm pretty sure we'll see a fair bit of carebears migrate back to hisec.

TLDR - REMOVE LOCAL - ALL ELSE IS NON-RELEVANT

This for the most part.

The solution is just change local to WHS style...done.

No ones going to give a crap about the status of a cloaked ship because you won't even see the damn thing in local.

This bull#### business of removing cloaked ships from local and them not seeing local is utter tripe...whomever came up with it originally needs to be drawn...quartered..tarred..feathered...and shot.... and not necessarily in that order. (And for the record...the OP isn't the first one who brought it up...this is the 10th time I've seen this crap)

TLDR - REMOVE LOCAL - ALL ELSE IS NON-RELEVANT

That would be me. Please be gentle on the quartering.

The idea was to find a middle ground regarding removing local and breaking cloaks which wouldn't affect wormholes (where there's already no issues). The idea of cloaked vessels truly disappearing would also end the "afk cloak" threads.

I'd prefer things be left alone and people grow some balls and stop whining because they're afraid of the person that's not at his computer, but in lieu of some of the horrible "break cloak" ideas that people were spewing out there (which would break wormholes by making them safer than high sec) I suggested that.

The solution is just change local to WHS style...done.

No im pretty sure it wasn't origionally stated by you.....this debates been around a long time.

Point is...if local becomes delayed...no ones going to know whose doing what anymore...and anything over that is just that...overkill.

Its a waste of time to discuss beyond that point....you wont see them...they wont see you unless either speaks up.

Middle ground or not...it suits me just fine...and im quite sure the bulk of the masses wouldn't have much to complain about short of sheer mass paranoia. Everyone has the same chance as everyone else...cloaking device only makes you invisible to the naked eye at that point...not deticble by scanners.

But then he cant see whose around without making visual contact either or DS.

You can't get much more simpliler than that...its a switch to be thrown..no programming needed.

Middle ground or not...it suits me just fine...and im quite sure the bulk of the masses wouldn't have much to complain about short of sheer mass paranoia. Everyone has the same chance as everyone else...cloaking device only makes you invisible to the naked eye at that point...not deticble by scanners.

Are you talking about the idea in here? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=23439&find=unread

I'm sure it suits you just fine, especially if you're literally salivating at the thought of all the juicy carebears you'll be able to gank without spending much time or energy softening up the system beforehand

It's just a pity you're not thinking of the long-term effects this will have.

You've not spent much time in WHS have you?

I've spent enough time in WHs to know that most nullsec carebears do not want the massive expenditure in time and energy and loss of income to play a game. If they were, they'd be in wormholes, where the rewards are higher than they are in nullsec.

You've not spent much time in WHS have you?

That is a mass contradiction of terms.


Carebears wouldn't survive in such an environment in the first place.


This isn't carebears online...this is EVE Online...an envionment that requires you to defend yourself and be alert/ever viligent.



0.0 is the true wild west....making it a bit more of a challenge to defend and not predictable would be a good thing would it not?

Very few people do. And a big reason is there is no local there.

That means you have to fit a scanner to find any wts - which not only gimps your ship but is more of a hassle than anything fun. You can't quickly tell if there is even anyone there let alone anyone to fight. You can't tell if there is a blob there cloaked and ready to gank you. You can't pve there without hitting the dscan button like some sort of OCD imbecile.

These are only a few of the reasons 93% of eve subscribers prefer to play eve where there is a local.

I lived in WHS for 2 to 3 months straight....and I loved every day of it....local hides all...your treating it as if your the one at risk.

That means you have no business there if your not prepared to take the risks on..People who can't handle that....shouldn't be playing this game.

It's not a hassel...I call it survival....get backup...a defense fleet...people to help protect and gaurd..watch.

It's not a hassel...I call it survival....get backup...a defense fleet...people to help protect and gaurd..watch.

All to often everyone runs off in a massive fleet train and leave behind their home base wide open to attack.

Local is practicually the "I-win" button...so long as you know that person is there...you can deny them the target/satisifaction of getting their objective.

What is this 93% figure you keep mentioning? Where is this? What proof do you have?

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Most of these shittastic ideas are all about making it easier to gank in nullsec.

Check the QENs

About 7% percent of players decide to go live in no local worm holes. If my figure are accurate will you agree that it is a bad Idea to force this on everyone?


Also your saying you would keep local in low sec and high sec?

I've already given you an answer for your fear of turning Null Sec further into a desert.... make High Sec much more dangerous or much less profitable. But you don't seem to like that, even High Sec Incursions seems to be something sacred to you, that shouldn't be changed.

Epic Fail.

Removnig Local from 0.0 wouldn't be that bad...just makes it more challenging to watch your back. Even then...every bloody attempt to change cloaking mechancis ends up being ignored or rejected...so I'm likely wasting my time to be quiet honest.

So yeah I'm done with this thread...enjoy slugging it out with the dead horse.

Your reading ability is impeccable. I've said that if you are going to change hisec incursions, then reduce the payout, but do not remove or move it from hisec, because it's the best way to train hisec dwellers in group flying, without actually losing ships left, right and center.

I, personally, am all for making hisec less profitable, but again, you have to consider the effects it'll have on a game population which has come to expect the payout they get in hisec. If anything, I would assume it'd be much more successful to actually up the rewards in nullsec.


Jesus Christ, you did not just say that. You should be ashamed of yourself for saying that.


There's a reason it's "ignored". It normally ends up being awful ideas, like all "remove local" ideas are.

Bye. Don't let the forum unlog button hit you on your way out.

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b) Any player with an active cloaking device is removed from Local. They cannot be seen there, and in turn cannot see anyone else there themselves.
Should the player be decloaked they return to the Local channel as normal.

Epic Fail.

93% != 0.0 Space Population.

Try again....your seriously reaching at this point.

Care Bears Care Bear in High Sec.

Removnig Local from 0.0 wouldn't be that bad...just makes it more challenging to watch your back. Even then...every bloody attempt to change cloaking mechancis ends up being ignored or rejected...so I'm likely wasting my time to be quiet honest.

So yeah I'm done with this thread...enjoy slugging it out with the dead horse.

I, too, want to be forced to load all the portraits for everyone in the constellation every time I decloak.

93% of players choose to play where there is a local. 7% choose to play where there is no local. You want the whole game to be the way the 7% prefer.

And Zim talking about High Sec Incursions being some critical training ground for group flying, completely ignores that players have been doing that fine in EVE for several years prior to PvE Raids in the form of Incursions.

ALL risk free PvEing needs a massive nerf, buffing Null anomalies while leaving Local and continuing Incursions in High Sec is hardly the answer.

What other hisec PVE activity requires the same level of coordination between a bunch of players in this game?

Nullsec PVEing is hardly "risk free".

Enough with the statistical shenanigans.

Percentage of Characters does not equal percentage of Players. There are 3 characters per account and a very large number of players have multiple accounts.

There's some seriously faulty logic going on here by some to justify the status quo. Just because players choose to make ISK in High Sec does not mean they want EVE to keep risk/PvP free PvE. I think Local Chat Intel is terrible game mechanics, but I take full advantage of it all the same. All players except perhaps the most dedicated roleplayers choose the path that will lead to the greatest reward and advantage.

Rambling on about how only 7% of characters spend time in Worm Holes is some indication that Local Chat intel removal is unpopular is also faulty as there's more differences between Wormhole space and the rest than simple delayed Local.

And Zim talking about High Sec Incursions being some critical training ground for group flying, completely ignores that players have been doing that fine in EVE for several years prior to PvE Raids in the form of Incursions.

ALL risk free PvEing needs a massive nerf, buffing Null anomalies while leaving Local and continuing Incursions in High Sec is hardly the answer.

You are completely incoherent at this point. Are you saying 93% of eve is in null sec???

93% of players choose to play where there is a local. 7% choose to play where there is no local. You want the whole game to be the way the 7% prefer.

The biggest difference is the no local so you have no way to tell what sort of numbers you may be up against. Going into a place with no local for pvp is just begging to get blobbed. But if wormholes had local many more people would go there for pvp.

So the more people we coordinate with is now going to be the measuring stick of how much ISK we should make? Seems largely irrelevant to me.

No I suppose there is some risk if your both careless enough to do it AFK and honest enough not to be botting. The danger of Null sec is only in traveling via gates, a risk virtually eliminated by being part of one of the big alliances and staying in home territory.

It would become as safe as high sec sadly.

c) Introduce at least one method for identifying or forcibly decloaking any cloaked ships. I'm keeping this intentionally vague as it will be a key balance issue, but possible methods include:

because it counters itself by making the pilot incapable of actually doing anything.

Except it doesn't prevent them from running around and choosing juicy targets, which is a fairly nice advantage to have.

Unless you can reliably stick an empty velator anywhere in a system over an extended period of time, and not get podded, then it's not going to be as safe as hisec. Safer than now, yes, but not as safe as hisec, that's taking it too far.

So yeah... those probes would effectively make wormholes nearly as safe as high sec.

No. It'd still be more dangerous than nullsec.

It's WH > Nullsec > Lowsec > Hisec. There's no way WHs can get even close to hisec by that minor change.

As to cloaks, I'd find it hilarious if cloaks consumed some sort of fuel if just to make staying cloaked in a single system for a few days in a row actually require effort, but I'm way more interested in shooting down awful suggestions that'd completely **** over the precarious balance that determines the nullsec population.

Sigh. It's a minor change, just like "remove local" or "remove cloaked ships from local" is a minor change. It's not something CCP could spend months on implementing, unless they're totally hopelessly incompetent.

I know perfectly well what the impact of that change is, and it's still not getting anywhere near hisec-safe.

Please. If wormholes had local PvP would be decimated. It would be impossible to plan any types of ops covertly. People would dock up at the first sign of a stranger. It would suck the life out of wormholes altogether. It would become as safe as high sec sadly.

Fortunately nothing that stupid would ever happen.

Except it doesn't prevent them from running around and choosing juicy targets, which is a fairly nice advantage to have.