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Vissari Nolen
Tweety Birds of Terror
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 07:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
While sitting in station tonight i recieved an eve mail from some one named Tyrone Bigams regarding him wanting to sell a few shiny ships at significantly reduced cost. right from the start it was obvious something was up, but i decided to see what he was trying to pull and contacted him saying i'd buy a couple of his ships for resale purposes. he opens up trade menu and to my surprise it seamed nothing was wrong, two vexor navy issues and a dominix navy issue were put into the trade menu like he said. so i traded him the isk and hit accept. after the trade is completed i try to put them into the market and resell them only to find that the ships were simply named after their shiny counterparts and that i'd lost a sizable amount of money due to a pathetically programmed trade window. i'm wondering if this system was intentionally designed to be taken advantage of by scamming garbage or if it was just a happy accident. a trade system that allows players to rename the items whatever they like and have it be displayed that way in the trade menu is absolutely ridiculous. if an item is going to be traded it needs to display the actual name of the item in the trade menu, otherwise every single new player is going to fall for this at least once unless they're lucky enough to be warned about the trade systems inadequacies ahead of time. so, eve eve community, i ask you this: how do you feel with such a poorly designed trade system? are you happy with it? |

Percival Gates
State War Academy Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 07:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Don't use the trade window. Use contracts. General rule of thumb: if it involves the trade window, it is a scam. Also, if it is that easy to make isk from, it is a scam.
Now, I know you are going to say "no, you dolt, that is not the issue here. The issue is that the trade window UI is poorly designed grrrrrrr." You are exactly right. So do yourself a favor and never use it again unless you are trading stuff between your own characters. Even then, use extreme caution. Scamming is part of the game. Lesson learned. And no, CCP will probably do nothing to change it. |

Vissari Nolen
Tweety Birds of Terror
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 08:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Percival Gates wrote:Don't use the trade window. Use contracts. General rule of thumb: if it involves the trade window, it is a scam. Also, if it is that easy to make isk from, it is a scam.
Now, I know you are going to say "no, you dolt, that is not the issue here. The issue is that the trade window UI is poorly designed grrrrrrr." You are exactly right. So do yourself a favor and never use it again unless you are trading stuff between your own characters. Even then, use extreme caution. Scamming is part of the game. Lesson learned. And no, CCP will probably do nothing to change it.
the general purpose of this post was to let let people know about some obviously messed up things with the trade menu. i personally will never use it again. but a game that has a system you should never use for fear of getting scammed shouldn't have the system in the first place. either fix it or remove it. don't leave it there for people to take advantage of. |

Percival Gates
State War Academy Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 08:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
I agree with you, but you underestimate how sadistic CCP is. Also, I think it's fairly obvious how easy it is to abuse the trade window. This is the wrong place to post this kind of thing. The locals in here will flame you incessantly.
If you seriously want to complain to CCP about this and start a grassroots movement, post something in the "Features & Ideas Discussion" area. C&P is where villains are praised and victims are laughed at. |

Vissari Nolen
Tweety Birds of Terror
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 08:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Percival Gates wrote:I agree with you, but you underestimate how sadistic CCP is. Also, I think it's fairly obvious how easy it is to abuse the trade window. This is the wrong place to post this kind of thing. The locals in here will flame you incessantly.
If you seriously want to complain to CCP about this and start a grassroots movement, post something in the "Features & Ideas Discussion" area. C&P is where villains are praised and victims are laughed at.
i understood this but was really having trouble finding a place to post this, and the "inform people of the latest scam" description seemed to fit this issue the best. even their forums are poorly done it seems. |

KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
127
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 08:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
So never use the market either? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39006524/DumbHiseccers.jpg |

Vissari Nolen
Tweety Birds of Terror
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 08:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:So never use the market either?
i fail to see what you're getting at, perhaps you can explain what is obviously a clever jab |

Percival Gates
State War Academy Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 08:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Vissari Nolen wrote:KrakizBad wrote:So never use the market either? i fail to see what you're getting at, perhaps you can explain what is obviously a clever jab I think he may have been talking to me, since I said to never use the trade window. There are numerous market scams, also. But it's rather difficult to be completely certain when somebody enters a conversation and asks a straw-man question and never explicitly states who is the intended recipient of said question. |

VIP Ares
BALKAN EXPRESS
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 08:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
In the first place- this was bad UI design and programming. I belive that in begining CCP did not have time and resources to fix all such things, even if they wanted to.
But with time, all similar scams became important part of EVE iniverse, and overall gaming experince, and it is highly unlikely CCP will ever change it.
There are always people that will enjoy ripping off noobs in such manner, and there will always be noobs who will fall for it at least once.
If you are evil enough, you will try to do it yourself to some poor rookie. |

Vissari Nolen
Tweety Birds of Terror
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 08:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
VIP Ares wrote:In the first place- this was bad UI design and programming. I belive that in begining CCP did not have time and resources to fix all such things, even if they wanted to. But with time, all similar scams became important part of EVE iniverse, and overall gaming experince, and it is highly unlikely CCP will ever change it. There are always  people that will enjoy ripping off noobs in such manner, and there will always be noobs who will fall for it at least once. If you are evil enough, you will try to do it yourself to some poor rookie.
i'm not that kind of person. and just because a poorly done feature like the trade window has become part of the eve universe doesn't mean that it no longer warrants fixing. if ccp didn't fix things just because players were used to them then nothing would get fixed after it came off of the test server. this is an issue that needs to be changed regardless of if scammers like it or not. |

Darius III
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
427
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 09:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Working as intended. The ships don't even have the same skins. You are the problem... Next time right click show info. Welcome to Eve.
Protip>Don't read Jita local until you been playing 4 years How stupid is CCP? So stupid it took them SEVEN YEARS to make a "loot all' Button. |

Vissari Nolen
Tweety Birds of Terror
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 09:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Darius III wrote:Working as intended. The ships don't even have the same skins. You are the problem... Next time right click show info. Welcome to Eve.
Protip>Don't read Jita local until you been playing 4 years
a trade window not properly displaying the names of the items is the problem, not the person using it. i shouldn't have to carefully scrutinize everything put into the window and STILL be paranoid about using it. i am not the problem, the overly exploited trade window is. as for the skins comment i suppose that would be something a more experienced player would catch, but as i said this more refers to newer players like myself who don't even fly shinies. |

Kagan Storm
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
14
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 09:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vissari Nolen wrote:While sitting in station tonight i recieved an eve mail from some one named Tyrone Bigams regarding him wanting to sell a few shiny ships at significantly reduced cost. right from the start it was obvious something was up, but i decided to see what he was trying to pull and contacted him saying i'd buy a couple of his ships for resale purposes. he opens up trade menu and to my surprise it seamed nothing was wrong, two vexor navy issues and a dominix navy issue were put into the trade menu like he said. so i traded him the isk and hit accept. after the trade is completed i try to put them into the market and resell them only to find that the ships were simply named after their shiny counterparts and that i'd lost a sizable amount of money due to a pathetically programmed trade window. i'm wondering if this system was intentionally designed to be taken advantage of by scamming garbage or if it was just a happy accident. a trade system that allows players to rename the items whatever they like and have it be displayed that way in the trade menu is absolutely ridiculous. if an item is going to be traded it needs to display the actual name of the item in the trade menu, otherwise every single new player is going to fall for this at least once unless they're lucky enough to be warned about the trade systems inadequacies ahead of time. so, eve eve community, i ask you this: how do you feel with such a poorly designed trade system? are you happy with it?
You Sir just failed at paragraphs and trading both at the same time.  My ego is the the size of my carriers jump range. |

VIP Ares
BALKAN EXPRESS
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 09:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
Well, "trade window" is only your first lesson.
Now if you continue reading Jita local chat, you will learn all other scams harder way. |

Nathan Jameson
Talocan Dominion Talocan United
168
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 10:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
Vissari Nolen wrote:i understood this but was really having trouble finding a place to post this, and the "inform people of the latest scam" description seemed to fit this issue the best. even their forums are poorly done it seems.
Why do you feel that other people will research the forums beforehand, any more than you did? |

Mathilde D'Arc
The Intaki Ladies Deep Space Astrogation Auxiliary
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 10:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Two things:
1. Faction ships can be identified by their icon in the top left corner. This is your failing and not that of the trade window.
2. You can right click and inspect traded items. Despite accepting blatantly non faction ships by virtue of them not being tagged faction you didn't even bother to inspect the offered goods.
I fail to see how this is a fault with the trade window when you had every opportunity available to you to avoid an obvious scam attempt.
|

FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
460
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 15:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Had someone try this on me once. I shorted him, entering 30,000,000 instead of 300,000,000.
Scammers who get excited and don't double-check numbers are great. |

seany1212
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
35
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 16:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
Vissari Nolen wrote:Darius III wrote:Working as intended. The ships don't even have the same skins. You are the problem... Next time right click show info. Welcome to Eve.
Protip>Don't read Jita local until you been playing 4 years a trade window not properly displaying the names of the items is the problem, not the person using it. i shouldn't have to carefully scrutinize everything put into the window and STILL be paranoid about using it. i am not the problem, the overly exploited trade window is. as for the skins comment i suppose that would be something a more experienced player would catch, but as i said this more refers to newer players like myself who don't even fly shinies.
WORKING AS INTENDED
There is a real life modification that allows a Toyota mr2 to look like q defeating (testarossa?), the owner can the chose to sell it as such, you are the moronic customer that chose not to research into your product because you thought you were getting an exceptional deal. Right click, show info for a reason |

FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
460
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 16:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
seany1212 wrote:There is a real life modification that allows a Toyota mr2 to look like q defeating (testarossa?), the owner can the chose to sell it as such, you are the moronic customer that chose not to research into your product because you thought you were getting an exceptional deal. Right click, show info for a reason
In real life, there are consequences for misrepresenting a product. If you list it as something it isn't you've committed fraud and can be in serious trouble.
Eve isn't real life, and we shouldn't be trying to emulate this boring world. |

Princess Bride
Corripe Cervisiam Trade Consortium
52
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 16:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
Thank you. Your post made the perfect "still working" section for the trade window walkthrough on my blog. It's nice to see that despite CCP's attempts to save people from themselves, trade window scams are still worth the trouble.
http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com (shameless plug)
|

seany1212
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
35
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 17:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:seany1212 wrote:There is a real life modification that allows a Toyota mr2 to look like q defeating (testarossa?), the owner can the chose to sell it as such, you are the moronic customer that chose not to research into your product because you thought you were getting an exceptional deal. Right click, show info for a reason In real life, there are consequences for misrepresenting a product. If you list it as something it isn't you've committed fraud and can be in serious trouble. Eve isn't real life, and we shouldn't be trying to emulate this boring world.
As is murder on the epic scale that is PVP in eve, going to lock them all up for life too? |

El Boracho
State War Academy Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 17:18:00 -
[22] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:seany1212 wrote:There is a real life modification that allows a Toyota mr2 to look like q defeating (testarossa?), the owner can the chose to sell it as such, you are the moronic customer that chose not to research into your product because you thought you were getting an exceptional deal. Right click, show info for a reason In real life, there are consequences for misrepresenting a product. If you list it as something it isn't you've committed fraud and can be in serious trouble. Eve isn't real life, and we shouldn't be trying to emulate this boring world.
If there were consequences IRL for misrepresentation then every politician in every country in the world would be in big trouble.
|

Gritz1
Ice Fire Warriors
20
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 17:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
When in doubt, right click! |

Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
205
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 18:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
Vissari Nolen wrote: While sitting in station tonight i recieved an eve mail from some one named Tyrone Bigams
right from the start it was obvious something was up,
i'd buy a couple of his ships for resale purposes. How to fail at giving your money away cluelessly. Welcome to EVE. Here are a few steps you have to relize.
1. How the hell would you trust someone you don't know and suddenly sends an email saying he is selling ships just because he is going to nullsec. Why is he selling direct at below cost? Oh, thats right...to good to be true. Put on market, set price below lowest sell order (like 10-15 mil and it will go fast), and just walk away because someone, somewhere will buy it, and isk will appear in the wallet be it 15 minutes or 3 days later. And for you...it was to good to be true so you just had to grab it 
2. Why didn't you trust that feeling? Your spidey senses go off, a kick to the balls makes you cough, and you still didn't trust your basic instint: Its too good to be true! Its mine!
3. Greed. Greed and trust are the two aspects that rule over EVE. Greed is the nitwits spamming local with contracts or saying they are selling items at extreme discounts...these guys want your isk. Trust is your naivety over ruling your brain and let your greedy erection for isk kick in...why do you give trust away like a cheerleader with her cherry? Your greed to resell let him earn just enough trust from you to hit that accept button without checking the ships in the window.
The easiest way to avoid scams: If its to good to be true, it f*cking is and your best best is to just walk away. Don't try to get fast cash, because you will lose in the end. Don't talk to people you don't know and don't look at local chat in the trade hubs, use contract menu because filters will keep the bad contracts out most of the time, always/always/always! check the numbers 3 times, and never fall for email from people you don't know  |

FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
460
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 19:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
seany1212 wrote:FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:seany1212 wrote:There is a real life modification that allows a Toyota mr2 to look like q defeating (testarossa?), the owner can the chose to sell it as such, you are the moronic customer that chose not to research into your product because you thought you were getting an exceptional deal. Right click, show info for a reason In real life, there are consequences for misrepresenting a product. If you list it as something it isn't you've committed fraud and can be in serious trouble. Eve isn't real life, and we shouldn't be trying to emulate this boring world. As is murder on the epic scale that is PVP in eve, going to lock them all up for life too? I think you completely misunderstood my point.
IN REAL LIFE, there are consequences...EVE ISN'T REAL LIFE...
See it now? |

FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
460
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 19:21:00 -
[26] - Quote
El Boracho wrote:If there were consequences IRL for misrepresentation then every politician in every country in the world would be in big trouble. The dudes who write the laws have ways of evading those laws. News at 11.
Your argument doesn't negate the fact that it's against the law to defraud someone. |

seany1212
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
35
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 19:34:00 -
[27] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:seany1212 wrote:FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:seany1212 wrote:There is a real life modification that allows a Toyota mr2 to look like q defeating (testarossa?), the owner can the chose to sell it as such, you are the moronic customer that chose not to research into your product because you thought you were getting an exceptional deal. Right click, show info for a reason In real life, there are consequences for misrepresenting a product. If you list it as something it isn't you've committed fraud and can be in serious trouble. Eve isn't real life, and we shouldn't be trying to emulate this boring world. As is murder on the epic scale that is PVP in eve, going to lock them all up for life too? I think you completely misunderstood my point. IN REAL LIFE, there are consequences...EVE ISN'T REAL LIFE... See it now?
I was for the trade window scam, not against it lol! |

Soon Shin
Abyssal Heavy Industries Narwhals Ate My Duck
25
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 19:39:00 -
[28] - Quote
If a deal is too good to be true, then most likely it is. Why would people sell plexes or other items for below market prices if they needed quick isk. They could simply just sell to the buy orders and be done with it.
I don't bother reading jita local as its filled with nothing but degenerates and isk farmer spam.
Infact I think the whole jita local should be muted, imagine how much bandwidth CCP could save if they simply closed the entire local. |

Xolve
Intaki Armaments Important Internet Spaceship League
325
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 20:02:00 -
[29] - Quote
Vissari Nolen wrote:a trade window not properly displaying the names of the items is the problem, not the person using it. i shouldn't have to carefully scrutinize everything put into the window and STILL be paranoid about using it. i am not the problem, the overly exploited trade window is. as for the skins comment i suppose that would be something a more experienced player would catch, but as i said this more refers to newer players like myself who don't even fly shinies.
No, the problem is your own stupidity. Welcome to EvE, this is normal behavior, it isn't a bug and infact everything is working as intended. Always, always, always, double check contracts, anything in a trade window, or anything floating in space.
I'm sure this was an expensive lesson, and one you won't soon forget.
Lady Spank for C&P Moderator.
|

Vissari Nolen
Tweety Birds of Terror
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 20:09:00 -
[30] - Quote
i really fail to see how a trade window that is able to blatantly misrepresent items and essentially LIE to those using it is my fault. at all. of course there were ways to verify that it was the right ship, such as skin tags and show info. but it should not have been necessary for me to do any of those things in the first place and i did not think to do them based on the assumption that the trade window would display accurate information in the first place. i don't think that is unreasonable. |
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