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Agricola Augusta
Minmatar
Multiversal Enterprise Inc.
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.24 08:53:00 -
[1]
Why the change, if this isn't a Privateer nerf could CCP please explain the logic to changing a system that's worked perfectly well for years?
Also it saddens me that EVE has taken yet another step to becoming a more Carebear orientated game. If I wanted to PvE all day with no risk of being attacked, I'd be playing one of the many other titles on the market which provide that.
I bought EVE because it was different to the usual MMORPG philosophy, however now it is changing to suit the mainstream. All because some Alliances cried "Whhhhaaa the Privateers keep killing my alt hauler, everytime I try to move stuff to Jita!". If this is not so, then please state the reason you felt the need to make three wars or more too expensive for 90% of EVE?
These views are mine alone and not those of my alliance nor anyone associated with them in anyway.
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
1 Shot 1 Kill
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Posted - 2007.04.24 09:10:00 -
[2]
You are not objective on the matter. It's not 'a system that worked fine for years'.
rabble rabble rabble
 Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly
Radio is essential for Amarr, to call the much needed backup...
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Agricola Augusta
Minmatar
Multiversal Enterprise Inc.
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.24 09:25:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Sokratesz
You are not objective on the matter. It's not 'a system that worked fine for years'.
rabble rabble rabble
No-one is objective in this matter, also why didn't it work fine for years?
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
1 Shot 1 Kill
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Posted - 2007.04.24 09:29:00 -
[4]
Play the game any way you like but you guys prety much having a free shooty-zone in empire..i can see why alot of people and CCP aren't happy with that. This was a matter of the deepest wallet, not of tactical or organisatorial skill.
I've been decced by you multiple times and fought with pleasure - so i dont really mind it, but i can see the reasons.
Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly
Radio is essential for Amarr, to call the much needed backup...
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Elgar Lightfoot
Lightfoot Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.24 09:30:00 -
[5]
It worked fine for years, up until The Privateers began exploiting the system in such a way as was not intended.
It's the same with any game mechanic. If someone finds a way to use it in a unintended way and it gets exploited widespread enough then it will be 'fixed'.
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Ikar Kaltin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.24 09:47:00 -
[6]
What do Privateers lose? Their ability to shoot everyone in an area designed to be a "safe" area.
What do Privateers gain? The ability to shoot down freighters and make a big profit from it....
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Agricola Augusta
Minmatar
Multiversal Enterprise Inc.
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.24 09:52:00 -
[7]
I accept that you're both probably correct, however I'd like confirmation from CCP on this issue. Also if they could inform Privateers how they expect the new system to be used would be nice. After all it would save both them and the players this kind of grief again.
I see this change going two ways, and one will end up with another nerf to the war dec system. I can see the war dec system being changed to a max of 3 wars per corp/alliance by the end of the year.
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Harry Karri
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Posted - 2007.04.24 09:55:00 -
[8]
Agricola the system worked fine for you, not for the majority. This has now been recognised and addressed. You, to coin a phrase, "Kicked the arse out of it" and only have your selves to blame.
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.04.24 10:28:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Agricola Augusta
I can see the war dec system being changed to a max of 3 wars per corp/alliance by the end of the year.
No, this change is enough, it avoids an alliance throwing money to wardec a corp with at most 12 people online.
The price is exactly what is needed, it is a really big isk sink and will avoid the tactics as "we wardec the universe and see if we can get any loot from it". Now, you'll have to choose targets, use some intelligence, find the really interesting and big industrial corps (those that would have funds to hire bodyguards and be old enough to be a threat in combat even being industrialists).
If you want some heavy fights, get some spys in the major alliances ang go get their convoys and escort when they move something big. There are also many parts of 0.0 that are lawless and cannot have sovereinty claims. Those are the perfect places to fight with a handful of wardecs in empire to get your hands on some big industrial corp convoys. Now, you'll have the opportunity to loot the freigters, this makes war profitable (when it's not abused).
--
Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Flying Vexor and Ishkur, Myrmidon was too slow, got ganked by 3 BC and a Megathron... |
Aeon Yakati
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.04.24 13:48:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot
It worked fine for years, up until The Privateers began exploiting the system in such a way as was not intended.
It's the same with any game mechanic. If someone finds a way to use it in a unintended way and it gets exploited widespread enough then it will be 'fixed'.
QFT.
Can't believe anyone in Privateer can say without a blink that he thinks the system was fine. 
Grow some and venture out to 0.0. There's an endless supply of PVP there, and blobs can be easily avoided. And incidentally you'd have a real challenge.
That's something else than sitting in a tanked up commandship at Jita 4-4 station waiting for a gank until the next best fleet comes around to match yours and ready to stop aggro and dock up once things are starting to look grim. With the right fittings it becomes a near risk free adventure.
If you ask me, it's the Privateers that are the carebears of PVP, and that's what's wrong with EVE. It's not the system, it's the people exploiting it.
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Blue Pixie
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Posted - 2007.04.24 14:14:00 -
[11]
And if it is a Privateer nerf, do they still have to explain the logic? 
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Vorpal Reaper
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Posted - 2007.04.24 15:51:00 -
[12]
I welcome the change. If I was a hardcore PvP'er it would be great to go around in gangs of 40 slaughtering lone pilots and adding the final blow to my e-peen killboard but I prefer other things. The War Dec system seems to make more sense if you look at it from an RP point of view.
War Decs were meant for gaining control by force; being able to boot another corp out of a system you wanted ... perhaps for its fine supply of ore in high sec, or maybe the opposing corp were constant in reminding you that you smelt of elderberries. CONCORD was happy to allow fights to go on until you took the fight across most of secure space. With everyone you met. If EvE were a real world, I doubt CONCORD would agree to letting you blow up most of the empire merely for fun without substantial payment.
Surely it makes sense if you want to fight more, you pay more for the privaledge or go to unsecure space where fighting is free.
...plus you a-holes blew up my Rohk XD... why did I not fit WCS's :P
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Morfane
The IMorral MAjority
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.24 21:12:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Aeon Yakati
Grow some and venture out to 0.0. There's an endless supply of PVP there, and blobs can be easily avoided. And incidentally you'd have a real challenge.
I was going to be petulant, but I'm high.
I believe you fail to realize that the vast majority of us used to live and hunt in 0.0, got the t-shirt and had it stolen by a now ex-girlfriend. Honestly, after the first two or three big battles, it bored me to no end. I didnt log in for a couple months.
There are many like me who share the sentiment that if "real" pvp is in 0.0, I'll take the fake kind pls.
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Aeon Yakati
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.04.25 00:21:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Morfane
Originally by: Aeon Yakati
Grow some and venture out to 0.0. There's an endless supply of PVP there, and blobs can be easily avoided. And incidentally you'd have a real challenge.
I was going to be petulant, but I'm high.
I believe you fail to realize that the vast majority of us used to
live and hunt in 0.0, got the t-shirt and had it stolen by a now ex-girlfriend. Honestly, after the first two or three big battles, it bored me to no end. I didnt log in for a couple months.
There are many like me who share the sentiment that if "real" pvp is in 0.0, I'll take the fake kind pls.
Cause it's cheaper since you can dock up when needed? Less risk vs higher rewards? Or it it since most of the empire targets don't fight back, unlike 0.0 targets?
Your whole strategy is solely dependant upon catching people unprepared, unaware of or ignorant about an empire war, and then "ganking" them. Should a target fight back, you will extend the courtesy for as long as you can take the odds, but when needed you have an almost insta way out: de-aggress, tank and dock up.
This sort of PVP shares many similarities with the use of pre-nerfed stabs, logoffski's and dual-mwd/nanos. These strategies have also been about stretching the risk vs reward equation by greatly decreasing the risks while only taking a mild hit on the reward side.
If you seriously think that's how PVP in EVE is supposed to be like, then I can only tell you you're playing the wrong game. Today's war-dec nerf is nothing else than an official confirmation that your views of 'PVP' do not match the designers' views. And luckily most of EVE's population as well.
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Renosha Argaron
Caldari
The Celestial Free Miner's
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Posted - 2007.04.25 01:15:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Renosha Argaron on 25/04/2007 01:18:41
Well i for one am glad that CCP have nerfed the war dec thing but they have'nt done enough....i really dont know much about it all but i for one am a carebare and not afraid to say so....i CHOOSE to live in peace and CHOOSE to live in Empire where it is ment to be safe....but alas its still not safe enough.
I am part of a peacefull mining corp that has just starting out and have just been war deced tonight by Repo Industries as they say one of my members blew up one of there ships.....or took part in it (without my knowlage) so they held my corp to ransom for the sum of 150 mil which may not be much for some corps but is alot to mine's.
we worked hard for what little we have.....but i refuse to pay....i will happily stay docked and train my skills and chat to friends while they shoot the station down around me.....lol.....if i start paying one Privateer corp i will have them all beating down our door for iskies we frankly dont have....lol....and there is no way we can fight back unless we take out our strip miners and throw them at there ships.....lol
Agricola Augusta i can see your view seeing as your a Privateer yourself or part of a Privateer alliance....but you have to see us carebear veiw's that we CHOOSE to stay in empire where it is ment to be safe and live in peace and try and enjoy the experiance of flying our ships in space and make friend and generaly just chat away.
just like your choice is to go to 0.0 and do what you do....and i truely admire and respect the fact you guys are brave enough to make it in 0.0....but its not for me......but when you come to empire and force players who dont wish to fight in to it and use extortion as a means to line your own pockets by war decking them, then its just wrong moraly and to be honist it sickens me....i know its just a game and all....but i still play the game and speak to peaple with the respect and morals i have for others in RL.
Aeon Yakati i was pleasently surprised by your post's seeing as your a member of BoB and iv heard so many horrer storys about your alliance......but reading your post has restored my faith in 0.0 players and its very reasuring to know that there are actualy guys out in 0.0 that do have morals and ethics.
Anyway my rant is over.....lol
Regards
Renosha
Peace
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gabrial1
Repo Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.25 02:06:00 -
[16]
I think my guys could help you out contact me in game we will war dec those scallywags for ya, WHOS WITH ME? lets all war Repo Industries
si vis pacem, para bellum
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Renosha Argaron
Caldari
The Celestial Free Miner's
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Posted - 2007.04.25 02:20:00 -
[17]
Originally by: gabrial1
I think my guys could help you out contact me in game we will war dec those scallywags for ya, WHOS WITH ME? lets all war Repo Industries
lol..yeah lets.....if im not there in 5 mins...start without me
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Magus Nebula
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Posted - 2007.04.25 06:08:00 -
[18]
there's nothing like a good empire war! If you got the money go for it i say!
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Dillon Arklight
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.04.25 06:53:00 -
[19]
It needed changing tbh. Whether you like it or not Empire was never supposed to operate in the way that Privateers would like. CCP do want more people into low sec and 0.0 but the move has to be optional as does the introduction to PVP. If a new players joins a corp war dec'd by Privateers and gets his ship repeatly destroyed is that fair? And will that player stay in EVE?
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Agricola Augusta
Minmatar
Multiversal Enterprise Inc.
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.25 12:55:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Dillon Arklight
It needed changing tbh. Whether you like it or not Empire was never supposed to operate in the way that Privateers would like. CCP do want more people into low sec and 0.0 but the move has to be optional as does the introduction to PVP. If a new players joins a corp war dec'd by Privateers and gets his ship repeatly destroyed is that fair? And will that player stay in EVE?
For the last two years I've been playing the answer was "Join an NPC corp or STFU!". What if those people start to whine "I want to run 10/10 complexes and rat 1-2 mil isk rats at no risk"? Would you agree with making all space safe and PvP only viable by mutual agreement?
Why not? Most players don't think it fair that BoB owns so many complexes, and getting repeatedly blown up by BoB isn't really fair. Also Will that player stay in EVE?
I think you get the idea right, as long as this doesn't infringe on the enjoyment of BoB members why should CCP give a crap? Also statistics show most gamers are PvErs. So aslong as BoB and their ilk get a steady flow of targets logging back in after a node crash that didn't effect them, why would they care if the rest of EVE is forced to go carebear?
If only Privateers had a few DEVs in it, this patch would never have happened. Oh well back to mission grinding for me I suppose?
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BH Desryn
ISD BH
Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2007.04.25 13:32:00 -
[21]
You do know you can still have all your 200+ wars, right? It will just cost a load more isk to keep them going. Your wars haven't been taken away from you, it's just that you don't want to pay the price now required.
[Bug Report Here] |
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Ralle030583
Gallente
The Phoenix cor
Phoenix Allianz
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Posted - 2007.04.25 14:09:00 -
[22]
i love to see privateers now whining :-)
btw Desryn very nice sig
You need a free Killboard?
check: http:\\wwww.eve-kill.net |
Agricola Augusta
Minmatar
Multiversal Enterprise Inc.
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.25 14:24:00 -
[23]
Originally by: BH Desryn
You do know you can still have all your 200+ wars, right? It will just cost a load more isk to keep them going. Your wars haven't been taken away from you, it's just that you don't want to pay the price now required.
I'll assume you're not trying to insult my or anyother players intelligence here, and I'll give you an example similar to this and ask if you think it's fair.
Imagine that you and your friends enjoy going to the pub/bar every sturday night for a drink, because you find it fun. However people living close by are kept awake by the noise and complain. Also local offlicences are part owned by council members. So the local council increases the price of all alchohol served in pubs/bars. Each drink you buy doubles in price. So whereas 3 pints cost say 9 isk before, they now cost 21 isk and you can only afford 9 isk.
Now you and your friends complain to the council and goverment saying it's not fair that we can't relax and have fun drinking beer anymore. The council say "Hey your beer hasn't been taken away from you! You just don't want to pay the price required!"
Now is that fair? The only difference is I invested two years of time and money into EVE, and no-one is late for work because I gank a ship or two in high sec! But Yeah I'm sure any carebear would consider your changes fair and impartial.
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.04.25 15:14:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Agricola Augusta
Now is that fair? The only difference is I invested two years of time and money into EVE, and no-one is late for work because I gank a ship or two in high sec! But Yeah I'm sure any carebear would consider your changes fair and impartial.
I'm wondering what you exactly want.
You're talking about something being fair and ganking in the same post... I thought those things were opposites.
So, you're saying CCP isn't fair to you because they add cost for you to fight unfair battles (ganking outnumbered mission/industrial/mining ships that have no PvP capability).
You should open a dictionnary and learn about what "fair" means.
So, it seems like you want to fight, I heard some alliances are getting bored in their area and travel through the galaxy to find some targets. The privateers is a big enough alliance to go meet those bored pilots and pop some ships.
I'm not telling anything about conquering stations and getting sovereignty, you can kick people out of the place and just leave the systems as waste. This is fighting and more fighting, isn't it what you joined eve for?
--
Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Happy owner of a Vexor Navy Issue and few ishkurs.
The Vexor Navy Issue is much more fun than the Myrmidon ! |
Artu Stargazer
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Posted - 2007.04.25 18:13:00 -
[25]
They may have taken the nerf a bit too far, but you were never supposed to be able to afford to war dec half of empire space. 200+ wars is ridiculous, but 10-20 should be supportable by a PvP focused alliance without too much of a problem. 20 wars will get you most of the big alliances and plenty of targets.
To be fair, many of the privateers are just looking for a good fight in empire, but the rest of us aren't necessarily looking for that.
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Dynast
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Posted - 2007.04.25 19:02:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Aeon Yakati
Cause it's cheaper since you can dock up when needed? Less risk vs higher rewards? Or it it since most of the empire targets don't fight back, unlike 0.0 targets?
Your whole strategy is solely dependant upon catching people unprepared, unaware of or ignorant about an empire war, and then "ganking" them. Should a target fight back, you will extend the courtesy for as long as you can take the odds, but when needed you have an almost insta way out: de-aggress, tank and dock up.
This sort of PVP shares many similarities with the use of pre-nerfed stabs, logoffski's and dual-mwd/nanos. These strategies have also been about stretching the risk vs reward equation by greatly decreasing the risks while only taking a mild hit on the reward side.
If you seriously think that's how PVP in EVE is supposed to be like, then I can only tell you you're playing the wrong game. Today's war-dec nerf is nothing else than an official confirmation that your views of 'PVP' do not match the designers' views. And luckily most of EVE's population as well.
Mass wardeccing in Empire may have been cheese, but it was better than the garbage alliance warfare that permeates deep 0.0. Blob-fights, lag, PoS killing, lag, DDs, lag, mass-targeting, lag, bubble camping for hours on end, lag, oh, and more lag. Oh, and the many varieties of metagaming that your own alliance is so keen on.
Whatever the designers may want or claim to want, they've utterly failed to provide enjoyable large scale alliance PvP. It's no accident that only a tiny, tiny fraction of EVE's playerbase will have anything to do with it. Despite massively higher rewards for mining, missioning, ratting, and well.. pretty much everything in 0.0.. 95% of EVE's playerbase won't touch your "endgame" with a ten foot pole. This is because it sucks horribly, and is essentially a job, not a game.
While the Privateers may have been largely fighting people who didn't want to fight, they were at least trying to find something of worth in this game.
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jshayne7898
Deathstar Mercenary Operations
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Posted - 2007.04.25 19:28:00 -
[27]
Seeing that the Privateers have wardec'ed a large percentage of the eve community as it is. I think that this nerf will be well received by the eve community. As it stands the Privateers are telling us that if we want to stay safe then stay in an npc corp.
How is this fair. Either risk fighting the privateers to enjoy playing with friends in a group of your own or stay in noob corp. Hmmm seems the privateers has started dictating who is safe and who isn't and what ppl must do to stay safe. This seriously limits the capabilities of players to enjoy the game because a group of ppl want to shoot everything they see and could afford to do so.
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Par'Gellen
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2007.04.25 19:48:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Par''Gellen on 25/04/2007 19:46:30
Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot
It worked fine for years, up until The Privateers began exploiting the system in such a way as was not intended.
It's the same with any game mechanic. If someone finds a way to use it in a unintended way and it gets exploited widespread enough then it will be 'fixed'.
QFT!
I see a lot of people in this game do not understand the difference between PvP and ganking. Privateers exploited a valid PvP game mechanic that allowed them to gank almost everyone all day long. Now they can't. It's a no-brainer.
---
CCP : Save my mousewheel! |
Serenity Frye
Defile.
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.25 22:50:00 -
[29]
Originally by: BH Desryn
You do know you can still have all your 200+ wars, right? It will just cost a load more isk to keep them going. Your wars haven't been taken away from you, it's just that you don't want to pay the price now required.
LOL u do realise how much that would cost ?
'Tis better to be a Lion for one day then be a sheep for a hundred years' |
Agricola Augusta
Minmatar
Multiversal Enterprise Inc.
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.25 23:38:00 -
[30]
I think Dynast hit the nail on the head for most Privateers. We've done the 0.0 PvP lag/snore fest over and over again and it just doesn't deliver for 80-90% of EVE.
If the DEVs spent more time on making 0.0 PvP more of an attractive/viable option than empire wars, there'd be no need for this patch. However rather than tempt the playerbase to 0.0 with the promise of FUN!!!!! They take away our fun in empire to try and send some more cannon fodder to a BoB lag fest.
Personally I'll be grinding missions in empire since I find it more interesting than 0.0 and I can actually accomplish something. Rather than sit on a bubble for 6 hours, or experience the slide show POS assaults. Where everyone tells you over vent that you died to a mothership and your ship disappears 20 seconds later!
Well done CCP you made the game less interesting for us, to try and force us into doing what you want. Can't wait for the next patch, You need to be +5 to enter any empire controlled space?
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