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Lucian Skord
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
6
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Posted - 2017.02.08 14:26:17 -
[1] - Quote
Like for example does it cost you more so to learn a given skill once you reach certain sp threshold. Like a character with 80m will take longer to learn say gunnery 5 than a 500k sp character?
Hope I explained it properly
Thanks in advance |
Memphis Baas
2898
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Posted - 2017.02.08 14:39:53 -
[2] - Quote
There is no such multiplier for skill training.
Each skill has a rank ( = difficulty). Example, frigates skill is rank 2, battleships is rank 8, capital ship skills are rank 12.
For a rank 1 skill, each level (square) requires the following number of points to be accumulated:
Level 1: 250
Level 2: 1414
Level 3: 8000
Level 4: 45255
Level 5: 256000
For higher rank skills, you multiply the points above with the rank of the skill.
Each skill has a primary and a secondary attribute listed. Ship and weapon skills are primarily Per Wil, support and industry skills are primarily Int Mem, and a few odd skills have charisma requirements.
When you train a skill (as Omega), you gain:
number of skill points / minute = primary attribute + 1/2 secondary attribute
The only things that affect skill training time are:
1. Alpha / Omega status (half speed vs. full speed)
2. Your attributes as listed in your character sheet (these include the totals from remapping, implants, boosters, etc.) |
Memphis Baas
2898
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Posted - 2017.02.08 14:42:05 -
[3] - Quote
There IS a penalty for INJECTING skills.
If you have, you get:
under 5 million points, the full 500k points in the injector
5-50 million points, 400k per injector
50-80 million, 300k per injector
more than 80 million, 150k per injector |
Lucian Skord
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
6
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Posted - 2017.02.08 14:44:53 -
[4] - Quote
Sry that's not what I meant. I just mean normal skill training
Ah sry didn't see post above |
Memphis Baas
2898
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Posted - 2017.02.08 14:49:09 -
[5] - Quote
We used to have a penalty for training a lot of skillpoints: when podded, we used to have to pay to re-purchase a clone of high enough "quality" to hold the skillpoints trained thus far. So as soon as we got killed, we'd have to pay anywhere between a few million to a few hundred million ISK to re-purchase a high enough grade clone. Otherwise if caught in a basic clone and podded again, we'd lose 5% of trained skill points.
They got rid of this mechanic a couple years ago. |
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
1497
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Posted - 2017.02.08 17:41:25 -
[6] - Quote
The mechanic sucked, but unfortunately, an isk sink was lost. Overall, it's better this way.
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5396
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Posted - 2017.02.09 01:12:14 -
[7] - Quote
You still lose skills for Strategic Cruisers when you die, do you not?
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Escalating Entropy
11513
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Posted - 2017.02.09 01:20:52 -
[8] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:You still lose skills for Strategic Cruisers when you die, do you not?
You lose one level from the respective Tech 3 subsystem skills when you die in a Tech 3 Cruiser (Tech 3 Destroyers do not share this penalty).
It is not a big loss. At most, you lose 5 days worth of training time.
How did you Veterans start?
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1163
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Posted - 2017.02.09 14:51:16 -
[9] - Quote
From a practical perspective I agree with Memphis, from a purely technical point of view what she posted is not specifically they truth. Let me explain.
There is a base rate at which characters can train skills and that base rate never changes. Everything else that may affect training speed is simply a multiplier, however at this point I prefer to say a modifier since some changes will increase your training rate while others will reduce it.
Attribute remapping can speed up training for some skills, but that is offset by slowing the rate at which you train other skills so there is a trade off to using attributes as a way of increasing training speed. As a side note because of this trade off nature of remapping I recommend that new players leave their attributes at default for the first few months while the get a feel for the game and what they want to do.
Attribute implants can boost training speed without the negative impact that remaps may have, and when used in combination with remaps will get you to the fastest training speeds possible.
Now to your question about a training multiplier.
The answer is yes there are training time multipliers associated with the skills in EvE. CCP even calls them a training time multiplier in the show info box in game, Memphis is correct that these training time multipliers are based on a rank structure although I find that most players have an easier time grasping this if you call it a tiered structure. CCP assigns each skill a rank, and all skills with the same rank will have the same training time multiplier.
There are many good web sites out there that go into more depth on the skills and training aspects of EvE, I always liked the EvE University page as a good starting point. |
Major Trant
Radchak's Raiders
1600
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Posted - 2017.02.15 15:54:13 -
[10] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:...Now to your question about a training multiplier.
The answer is yes there are training time multipliers associated with the skills in EvE. CCP even calls them a training time multiplier in the show info box in game, Memphis is correct that these training time multipliers are based on a rank structure although I find that most players have an easier time grasping this if you call it a tiered structure. CCP assigns each skill a rank, and all skills with the same rank will have the same training time multiplier.
This is so confusing. A higher tier skill simply requires more SP to reach each level, thus takes longer to train it. Memphis' explanation is correct.
In answer to the OPs question. No, not related to certain SP thresholds.
However, there are ways to increase training speed (SP gain), attribute remaps, implants and Cerebral Accelerators.
Cerebral Accelerators are devices that are off/on in the game, which basically add points to your attribute in the same way as implants do, but for a limited period. I believe one is given out to new players when they purchase Eve, possible via some specific package and they only work on Characters less than 30 days old. Last year there was a special event that had 24 hour versions drop that any player could use. But these had to be used by the end of the year and any still remaining are useless now. |
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
1891
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Posted - 2017.02.15 18:02:14 -
[11] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:You still lose skills for Strategic Cruisers when you die, do you not? You lose one level from one of the respective Tech 3 subsystem skills when you die in a Tech 3 Cruiser (Tech 3 Destroyers do not share this penalty). It is not a big loss. At most, you lose 5 days worth of training time.
Worth emphasizing is that you only loose the skill points if you are in the ship when it blows up. Ejecting from the ship prior to it blowing up eliminates skill point loss. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Escalating Entropy
11551
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Posted - 2017.02.15 19:10:15 -
[12] - Quote
My memory is a little fuzzy, but didn't the DEVs tweak the mechanics so that one cannot eject from their ship while under a weapon timer?
In which case, you can't bail from a fight if things go south.
How did you Veterans start?
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Cara Forelli
Better Off Red
Unspoken Alliance.
2189
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Posted - 2017.02.15 22:22:12 -
[13] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:My memory is a little fuzzy, but didn't the DEVs tweak the mechanics so that one cannot eject from their ship while under a weapon timer?
In which case, you can't bail from a fight if things go south.
Nope. I recently scored a free Nag when the pilot ejected. You do get a killmail even if the pilot ejects, which might be what you are thinking of.
Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Major Trant
Radchak's Raiders
1601
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Posted - 2017.02.15 23:39:19 -
[14] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:My memory is a little fuzzy, but didn't the DEVs tweak the mechanics so that one cannot eject from their ship while under a weapon timer?
In which case, you can't bail from a fight if things go south. Nope. I recently scored a free Nag when the pilot ejected. You do get a killmail even if the pilot ejects, which might be what you are thinking of.
I believe Shah is correct, if a pilot has a weapons timer he cannot eject. A pilot can eject during an engagement, if he deaggresses first, so a doomed Nag probably has time to do that, but T3s usually don't unless it's an obvious gank and they accept their fate from the beginning and don't aggress in the first place. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1175
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Posted - 2017.02.16 14:19:54 -
[15] - Quote
Major Trant wrote:This is so confusing. A higher tier skill simply requires more SP to reach each level, thus takes longer to train it. Memphis' explanation is correct.
As I stated in my last post from a practical perspective Memphis and you are correct, higher tier skills require more SP so they take longer to train. How much longer they take to train is determined by a training time multiplier. Ignoring the character side of the equation since this topic is about training time multipliers and move on to the skills themselves.
At the core level all skills in EvE require the same amount of SP to advance from level 0 to level 1, the same amount of SP to advance from level 1 to level 2 etc until we get to level 5. As we move on I want to use the remote armor repair systems and the capitol remote armor repair systems skills as the examples.
If they both have the same basic SP requirements why does it take longer to train the capitol skill? The answer is that training time multiplier that both you and Memphis insist does not exist, you know that training time multiplier listed in the show info dialog of every skill in the game so some math.
If BSP = base SP needed for advancement from one level to the next we get these.
Remote skill is BSP x 2 = SP needed to advance because remote armor rep has a 2x training time multiplier.
Capitol remote is BSP x 10 = SP needed to advance because the cap skill has a 10x training time multiplier.
This system is elegant, extremely flexible and yet it requires an absolute minimum of database space to make it all work.
Instead of storing values for each of the 5 levels and for every skill in the game each skill only needs to store the training time multiplier. If they want to slow down or speed up training game wide and for all skills instead of having to change thousands of entries they only have to change one.
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KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
426
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Posted - 2017.02.16 20:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Major Trant wrote:This is so confusing. A higher tier skill simply requires more SP to reach each level, thus takes longer to train it. Memphis' explanation is correct. As I stated in my last post from a practical perspective Memphis and you are correct, higher tier skills require more SP so they take longer to train. How much longer they take to train is determined by a training time multiplier. Ignoring the character side of the equation since this topic is about training time multipliers and move on to the skills themselves. At the core level all skills in EvE require the same amount of SP to advance from level 0 to level 1, the same amount of SP to advance from level 1 to level 2 etc until we get to level 5. As we move on I want to use the remote armor repair systems and the capitol remote armor repair systems skills as the examples. If they both have the same basic SP requirements why does it take longer to train the capitol skill? The answer is that training time multiplier that both you and Memphis insist does not exist, you know that training time multiplier listed in the show info dialog of every skill in the game so some math. If BSP = base SP needed for advancement from one level to the next we get these. Remote skill is BSP x 2 = SP needed to advance because remote armor rep has a 2x training time multiplier. Capitol remote is BSP x 10 = SP needed to advance because the cap skill has a 10x training time multiplier. This system is elegant, extremely flexible and yet it requires an absolute minimum of database space to make it all work. Instead of storing values for each of the 5 levels and for every skill in the game each skill only needs to store the training time multiplier. If they want to slow down or speed up training game wide and for all skills instead of having to change thousands of entries they only have to change one.
I think you misread the question:Quote:Like a character with 80m will take longer to learn say gunnery 5 than a 500k sp character?
The OP was asking about different characters learning the same skill/skill level. "ignoring the character side of the equation" is ignoring the question.
While your response is the correct response to a question, it's not the question that was asked. Memphis's response was spot-on.
KB
Dum Spiro Spero
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Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
1236
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Posted - 2017.02.16 22:48:49 -
[17] - Quote
I think if I read your question right, the base SP/hour doesn't change if your character was 50,000 SP or 100,000,000 SP
Remapping towards the skill you are training, attribute enhancing implants, special boosters from events are the only ways your SP rate can increase.
@lunettelulu7
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