Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
|
CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
7496
|
Posted - 2017.02.09 15:44:26 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Quant has compiled the Monthly Economic Report for January 2017.
Enjoy the Monthly Economic Report 2017. If you want to have a closer look at the numbers, you are welcome to dig into the raw data (29 MB, zipped) for yourself!
As a bonus graph, we have the development of the top 25 corporations since 2012.
CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer
|
|
HyperFlareX
Know your Role League of Unaligned Master Pilots
18
|
Posted - 2017.02.09 16:01:08 -
[2] - Quote
Does the mining value include rorquals now? |
Luna TheMoonrider
Daerie Inc. Get Off My Lawn
5
|
Posted - 2017.02.09 16:29:57 -
[3] - Quote
HyperFlareX wrote:Does the mining value include rorquals now? +1
It's really sad if not |
Faith Winters
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
1
|
Posted - 2017.02.09 17:14:34 -
[4] - Quote
Quote:Please note that this MER is the last one containing regional stats, the next MERs will be more streamlined and not showing those graphs. This was a request by the CSM.
Why? |
Hydrium Eternite
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
5
|
Posted - 2017.02.09 17:17:57 -
[5] - Quote
HyperFlareX wrote:Does the mining value include rorquals now?
Going to go ahead and say no just by comparing Delves numbers from the last couple months. |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
404
|
Posted - 2017.02.09 18:09:06 -
[6] - Quote
The bonus graph... I wish those were active members, otherwise it's not really useful. |
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
525
|
Posted - 2017.02.09 18:16:35 -
[7] - Quote
Faith Winters wrote:Quote:Please note that this MER is the last one containing regional stats, the next MERs will be more streamlined and not showing those graphs. This was a request by the CSM. Why?
As someone who only ever looked at the regional stats in the first place, I can only assume because the CSM hates us. |
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
187
|
Posted - 2017.02.09 19:08:35 -
[8] - Quote
Faith Winters wrote:Quote:Please note that this MER is the last one containing regional stats, the next MERs will be more streamlined and not showing those graphs. This was a request by the CSM. Why?
Same question - why? It's interesting. What do the (mostly) useless cackle of whiners have to hide?
|
Sarah Flynt
Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity
268
|
Posted - 2017.02.09 20:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Quote:Please note that this MER is the last one containing regional stats, the next MERs will be more streamlined and not showing those graphs. This was a request by the CSM. Well played, Council of Nullsec Powerbloc Management, well played.
Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
|
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3429
|
Posted - 2017.02.09 21:03:37 -
[10] - Quote
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:Faith Winters wrote:Quote:Please note that this MER is the last one containing regional stats, the next MERs will be more streamlined and not showing those graphs. This was a request by the CSM. Why? Same question - why? It's interesting. What do the (mostly) useless cackle of whiners have to hide? What to hide? The economic and power situation of their corps, alliances & coalitions? The only reason why the CSM exist for most of the members is to protect their virtual(?) empires and grab advantages from insider information.
I'm my own NPC alt.
|
|
Erroch
STK Scientific DRONE WALKERS
10
|
Posted - 2017.02.09 21:32:09 -
[11] - Quote
Instead of hiding it, maybe just delay it a little more? It's always been interesting to watch as this data shifts from one place to another. The information is already fairly vague and gives a good idea of the 'health' of different regions.
These reports and their details are also things I've used to get people interested in the game.
Graph porn is good for the soul. Accurate, detailed graph porn doubly so.
Yes, it's techincally free intel but in a way so are killboards and the 'statistics' options on the in game map.
|
Circumstantial Evidence
374
|
Posted - 2017.02.09 21:50:17 -
[12] - Quote
Some CSM members have responded on Reddit
Jin'taan wrote:[GÇô]JintaanCSM 11 - 4 points - an hour ago-á This was - as some have mentioned - made as a non unanimous point, but none of the CSM had any reasonable objections to it. The main issue is that it provides 100% uninterruptable data on how much you are producing in terms of ships, which - given that it also tracks how much you import - lets you get a really good estimate of how many supers are being built. That's kind of not good in terms of raw, free information to be putting out there. How would you guys feel about simply wiping the numbers and ranking the regions, like a scoreboard?
[GÇô]JintaanCSM 11 - 23 minutes ago-á [....] I personally feel like spies getting this sort of data, or having a more direct ingame source would be more compelling gameplay than simply waiting for the monthly update. I'm all for pretty graphs though, and I'm sure once the USTZ CSM piles into this thread they'll be paying attention too. How would you feel about making the graphs somewhat team security-esque and just removing the numbers but showing some form of relative production chart? Or not naming the regions? |
Lockefox
EVE Prosper Market Analysis Prosper Investment Bank
5
|
Posted - 2017.02.09 21:53:25 -
[13] - Quote
Quote:Please note that this MER is the last one containing regional stats, the next MERs will be more streamlined and not showing those graphs. This was a request by the CSM.
I unequivocally oppose the removal of regional data in the MER.
There is no meaningful way to reverse engineer the data from other sources, and this data is extremely useful as an economic reporter. Removing the data as a way to shelter the "hyperproductive Delve" is not improving the game.
Keep the MER data open! Do not remove the regional data! |
Ronz
Globaltech Industries Yulai Federation
0
|
Posted - 2017.02.09 23:07:28 -
[14] - Quote
Quote:Please note that this MER is the last one containing regional stats, the next MERs will be more streamlined and not showing those graphs. This was a request by the CSM.
WTF? Well you may as well just quit sending the damn report as the region info is the only interesting part of it.
Cant believe you listened to this request, im sure the vast majority of players enjoyed reading over these stats and will be very dissapointed by this decision. |
ViolentDesire
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
140
|
Posted - 2017.02.09 23:57:14 -
[15] - Quote
Quote:Please note that this MER is the last one containing regional stats, the next MERs will be more streamlined and not showing those graphs. This was a request by the CSM.
Why? Who requested this? So nullseccers get special treatment by CCP?
I also have a bunch of info that I want hidden. |
Daishiknyte
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.02.10 03:59:31 -
[16] - Quote
Save the MER! |
Circumstantial Evidence
374
|
Posted - 2017.02.10 05:34:32 -
[17] - Quote
CCP Guard says: discuss! [link] So far, the non-CSM comments in this forum thread seem in favor of continuing to share region data; it only seems to benefit intel gathering against groups that dominate a region. I think you can count those groups on one hand?
CCP Guard wrote:[GÇô]CCP_Guard 54 points 7 hours ago-á
Hey, all! I wanted to jump in and give some perspective. In the metrics session at the summit concerns were raised about the depth of detail players get from data provided outside the game by CCP. These are not new concerns and they're always on our mind when releasing data, especially data that is unobtainable through gam-eplay. We know how much you guys love data from the EVE universe which is why we provide it. It puts things in perspective and it's just fun. It adds to the experience. We want to show you things but we also don't want to ruin anything or cheapen the experience of actually finding things out in the game.
So a couple of misconceptions I see shining through are that the CSM tell us what data to put out. That's not the case. We take insights and advice from the and we value their input greatly. When they disagree with you or each other, those viewpoints are equally important.
Another is that we've rigidly decided on something and etched it in stone. That's not the case. Let's have a discussion. |
Grash Uriza
calibrated chaos Triumvirate.
31
|
Posted - 2017.02.10 05:58:09 -
[18] - Quote
The Primary Issue here is that we've been told a change is taking place with the MER, but have not been explained why in any sufficient way to how it came about.
Quant is saying that is request came from the CSM. Which CSM member(s) proposed this, which one supported it. What were their reasons. Without this information, how can we approach this? I know Guard says he wants a debate, but right now it feels like this heavy handed action. |
Andrei Rianovski
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2017.02.10 07:00:13 -
[19] - Quote
As with many others, I would appreciate the regional data - at least some of it - being included in the MER. Like others, I also have the reason of it's the most interesting part of the MER.
I guess I kinda understand nullsec people not wanting so much of their economic data handed out.... but what about the rest of us? It's stupidly vague information anyway, and, if it's so important then ... maybe we can just take the nullsec regions data out of the report and just give us the empire (and maybe npc null) regions in the report. Most of the nullsec regions are basically negligible in their trade and production values so they're not too interesting anyway.
That way, the few nullbear bosses who care can keep their data secret, and the many rest of us can continue to enjoy the numbers about the regions that are actually interesting enough to pay attention to.
Sorry if I sound insulting, but unless I'm missing something (which is likely the case since we haven't been given any real reasoning aside from "CSM said so") then I'm actually disappointed that "remove the regional data" was the order given and uncompromisingly followed instead of "remove the nullsec regions data" like nobody thought it through at all |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Vanity Thy Name Is
429
|
Posted - 2017.02.10 07:56:08 -
[20] - Quote
Faith Winters wrote:Quote:Please note that this MER is the last one containing regional stats, the next MERs will be more streamlined and not showing those graphs. This was a request by the CSM. Why?
Probably the same reason the Watch List was Nerfed down to a mostly useless 'Buddy List.' Free intel on bigger boats is bad for big alliance business, as is knowing where systems' worth of space rocks are being nommed to be turned into really big boats. The only reason something like this would likely get requested by CSM (and approved by CCP apparently), it supports the ones living full time in null.
Must be nice to have that kind of pull, and get the goodie bag well stocked for a select part of the community.
>Jeven's Highsec scrub keyboardist.
Minny boat flyer, unofficial squeaky wheel.
'Game Ethics and Morality Monitor' I remember promises.
Snark at 11-24/7/365.25. Overshare? Yup.
Yes it's my fault. And if you don't staap it I'll do it again. ;-P
No you can't has my stuffs OR my SPs.
|
|
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
404
|
Posted - 2017.02.10 11:02:47 -
[21] - Quote
Andrei Rianovski wrote:maybe we can just take the nullsec regions data out of the report and just give us the empire (and maybe npc null) regions in the report. Most of the nullsec regions are basically negligible in their trade and production values so they're not too interesting anyway. Did you even read the report? Production in Delve outperforms any highsec region, except for Forge. Anyway, Guard suggested a discussion, so let's do it. Of course not on reddit, as we have a better place like here.
First of all, should this data be hidden? I strongly believe that it should be advertised as much as possible. Myself, I joined EVE not because of those epic battles reports or even elite solo PVP podcasts. I joined because I loved the idea of complex player-driven economy. And I bet, I was not the only one who's such a weirdo. But for a very long time (since forever?) nullsec was very sparse industry-wise. If you wanted to do anything but capital/super production, you should've been doing it in hisec period. Now finally things are shifting. And as they are, it should become a common knowledge. The more folks will know about GDP bloom in nullsec, the more industrialists will give it a try. And do we need more of people in nullsec? Hell yes we do.
The second concern was about in-game vs out-of-game availability. Well, this is not as straightforward as it seems. In-game features sometimes follow the meta-game, like billboards for example. Some even didn't really work out: eve-voice VS teamspeak. Market aggregators like eve-central were even half-legal for a long time with those cache-scrappers. But even now, we dont have an access to out-of-region market in-game. So this all mess is rather complicated and I think should be dealt with on a case-by-case basis. That being said, I for one support more in-game features that allow to collect intel. Structure scanners anyone? Like ship scanners, but can scan what the structure is producing at the moment. That'd be great. |
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
531
|
Posted - 2017.02.10 11:46:08 -
[22] - Quote
Andrei Rianovski wrote:As with many others, I would appreciate the regional data - at least some of it - being included in the MER. Like others, I also have the reason of it's the most interesting part of the MER. I guess I kinda understand nullsec people not wanting so much of their economic data handed out.... but what about the rest of us? It's stupidly vague information anyway, and, if it's so important then ... maybe we can just take the nullsec regions data out of the report and just give us the empire (and maybe npc null) regions in the report. Most of the nullsec regions are basically negligible in their trade and production values so they're not too interesting anyway. That way, the few nullbear bosses who care can keep their data secret, and the many rest of us can continue to enjoy the numbers about the regions that are actually interesting enough to pay attention to. Sorry if I sound insulting, but unless I'm missing something (which is likely the case since we haven't been given any real reasoning aside from "CSM said so") then I'm actually disappointed that "remove the regional data" was the order given and uncompromisingly followed instead of "remove the nullsec regions data" like nobody thought it through at all
I strongly disagree, looking and comparing the different NullSec-regions is the most fun. How about we instead take all HighSec-regions out? |
Arronicus
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Badfellas Inc.
1575
|
Posted - 2017.02.10 12:16:16 -
[23] - Quote
A lot of people in here saying this change only benefits nullseccers: Wrong
Many of us in nullsec are VERY unhappy about the change as well. This is a greedy change by a select few who want to hide as much information as possible about what they do, even though that data doesn't actually put them at any more real risk. We already know what regions stupid amounts of supers are being spit out in, what regions have crazy amounts of shipping going to and from. This data doesn't reveal some big secret production effort, nor help to isolate which sotiyos stuff is being built in. All this change does is screw over the general playerbase so that a few players can disillusion themselves into believing that their CSM puppets have made them safer.
The fact that no member of the CSM actively stood up to this is appalling, that no candidate there was sufficiently knowledgeable to see why this is bad, that the CSM lacks a stunning level of diversity , and builds a sincere belief in myself that it's time to get rid of the CSM.
Do the right thing, CCP, don't get rid of the regional data in the MER. As for anonymizing the regions, you might as well just delete all the regional data. They have the same effect. |
Papa Django
Materials Harvesting Kombinat
143
|
Posted - 2017.02.10 20:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
Another good reason to spread the world in a few weeks : Don't vote for CSM, you will give more power to power blocks. |
Rogue Integer
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
30
|
Posted - 2017.02.10 23:13:40 -
[25] - Quote
Please do not remove the regional stats from the MER. I find them extremely useful for my own industrial and trade planning, and these data are not available via in-game methods. |
Rogue Integer
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
30
|
Posted - 2017.02.10 23:14:28 -
[26] - Quote
Papa Django wrote:Another good reason to spread the world in a few weeks : Don't vote for CSM, you will give more power to power blocks.
If the people who are not properly represented by large power blocs do not vote, they will continue not to be represented and power blocs will continue to control the CSM. |
Andrei Rianovski
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2017.02.11 08:46:36 -
[27] - Quote
I have no problem with people disagreeing to my points.
I'm happy to see that so far everybody posting here (and some of the CSM?) were against removing the regional stats from the MER.
Let's be realistic: the CSM is intended to represent the players, but it's far from a perfect system. There's probably only a few dozen players who want the regional stats removed from the MER, and hundreds or thousands of players who want it to stay in the MER. Right?!
As mentioned above, it's neat too to see nullsec people actually starting to produce and trade more. That is what the new structures were intended to help do - spread out production and trade from the few great hubs, and make New Eden's trade and production landscape more varied and interesting. The regional stats are showing us that it's actually happening and that IS interesting ...
Another way to think of it... keep the stats or remove them, will any players be so upset to quit over it? In both directions, the answer is no, so, why make the change? The only difference is this:
1) Keep the stats - a handful of players (paranoid alliance leaders and nobody else) are a little uncomfortable about some free data 2) Lose the stats - hundreds or thousands of players are sad and disappointed that CCP caved to the request of a few
Just pick the lesser of two evils... |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3447
|
Posted - 2017.02.11 20:42:33 -
[28] - Quote
Certain players are trying to maintain a long-standing partisan narrative that Goonswarm don't use their space 'properly', that their occupancy of Delve is an aberration against other alliances who would make 'better' use of that space, and therefore CCP should impose further nerfs to 0.0 to make it harder for Goons to exist.
Having inconvenient facts rubbed in their faces on a regular basis through CCP reports makes that narrative harder to uphold.
Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
|
Alicia Dnari
Dnari Mining and Manufacturing
14
|
Posted - 2017.02.12 02:21:39 -
[29] - Quote
I'm with those who would prefer not to see regional information deleted from the MER. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3853
|
Posted - 2017.02.13 07:10:35 -
[30] - Quote
Got to weigh in on the regional debate.
While it may indicate which region supers are being produced in, it doesn't indicate which system, or who is flying them, or when they are online. A little bit of intel to indicate what alliances may be massively increasing their super numbers is not a bad thing, or an indication of which entire region to search for their production facilities. Free tactical info of exactly when those supers are online is the bad thing.
Especially since there is no way in game to bribe random baseliners working at construction facilities for low level intel, etc etc. The game should not need alts being used as spies to be played, and breaking down the statistics and estimating what they mean is both not 100% accurate intel, and requires some work, about on relation with the reward since everyone knows certain alliances build supers anyway. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |