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Fluffy Orlenard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2017.02.18 17:01:25 -
[1] - Quote
hello guys,
Since I've seen many complaints regarding the dreaded gatecamp I assume its a large problem that CCP will have to face 1 day or another. So I guess I can give my 2 cents on it.
I'll tell you what the idea is and explain a bit further how it could work. so the idea is when a person jumps using the gate, it jumps it in a random spot in the destination solar system instead from jumpgate to jumpgate.
that way you could avoid gatecamp...to a certain extent. This is where the fun really starts to kick in. To balance things out, interdictors and bubbles would be allowed in low sec...even in high sec if ccp want too...for me, i don't care for that part in high sec.
Why allowing bubbles ? Well if gatecamps are one of the first places to start fights in my opinion there should be a way to maintain it. Thats where the bubbles comes in. You still have to be careful when you warp to a gate but in this particular case, you wont get ganked on a gate at least.
consequences is that when you jump from high to low sec, you wont get ganked but when you warp to the gate you still have to be careful and use your brain. From low to null sec the same effect, no gatecamps except if you're dumb when warping to a gate and get stuck in a bubble.
idk, am i crazy or is this doable ? |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5272
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Posted - 2017.02.18 17:04:53 -
[2] - Quote
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
27681
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Posted - 2017.02.18 17:18:32 -
[3] - Quote
CCP have had since 2003 to do something about gatecamps, that they haven't should tell you that they don't consider them to be a problem that warrants their interference.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3796
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Posted - 2017.02.18 17:18:43 -
[4] - Quote
^x2
BLOPS Hauler
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Van Doe
22
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Posted - 2017.02.18 17:34:08 -
[5] - Quote
Hey I really like the idea.
But you should considering leave out the part where your idea comes into action.
So basically remove your idea and your idea is a good idea.
Gate camps are a major part og eve the are used to ensure that no one enters system without your permission. If you change that it hase the potential to brake eve. At some point things need to be predicable at least to some extent.
If the predictability is not given you can't counter it.
If you want the exit to change places at least make it flowing a predictable pattern.
But this won't change anything till the camper are just going to warp to the next location.
And after all you have a random exit already since it is not clear on wich point within a radius of (not sure about the exact number) 2500m/5000m something like that you will drop out from the gate.
I'm not trolling, I create content for everyone to enjoy.
afk cloaky in a system near you while posting in this forum.
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Cade Windstalker
839
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Posted - 2017.02.18 18:10:52 -
[6] - Quote
The only thing you're doing here is rewiring mechanics in a complicated and ultimately frustrating way so that you camp the out-gate instead of the in-gate to a system, and bubbles are now 100% mandatory if you want to stop anyone's movement through a gate.
Oh, and this would massively buff nullified ships. |
Ronnie Rose
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2017.02.18 19:00:53 -
[7] - Quote
You know the story, of the guy who spills his drink and to avoid embarrassment he says "I meant that!" That is what gate camps are.
CCP designed the gate system as a travel mechanism way back when they did not have the resources (servers, compute and coding) to to handle system transitions. It was the easiest way to approach the problem back then. But the aggressive gate camp kills was an unintended consequence, so CCP's response is "hey its part of the game!"
Well, that was then when there were not that many players and it could be tolerated, but now CCP is trying to grow EVE, and I will tell you and them that gate camp is the biggest growth killer that EVE faces. That's my prediction.
Why? I'll just say way back when I was a newbie player, I had the unpleasant experience for the first time ever venture to lowsec for a purchase I made at a station in lowsec and got ganked at a camp. It was unexpected, unprovoked and extremely rude, and I was right there and then ready to quit and say "F- this game."
But I did not I went on.
However, I say, I bet 30% of the players would, have, and will rage quit from a gate camp, ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE PAYING CUSTOMERS, because people who pay premium prices for a service expect premium treatment, not get kicked in the teeth even by other players.
You should listen to the OP because chances are he is a new player and CCP right now is very much interested in NPE feedback. He still has a fresh impressionable opinion about the game, that we staunch players have lost over the years.
Thanks OP for bringing this up. As for your suggestion, I'm against the idea of warp bubbles in High and Low sec space. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5273
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Posted - 2017.02.18 19:22:13 -
[8] - Quote
No gates means no chokepoints. No chokepoints means it's impossible to force a fight.
This makes it impossible to actually defend...well, anything really.
I'd like both you and the OP to explain why that is a good thing. |
Dolorous Tremmens
Lightspeed Enterprises Goonswarm Federation
202
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Posted - 2017.02.18 19:28:54 -
[9] - Quote
Ronnie Rose wrote: *snip* But I did not I went on.
However, I say, I bet 30% of the players would, have, and will rage quit from a gate camp, ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE PAYING CUSTOMERS, because people who pay premium prices for a service expect premium treatment, not get kicked in the teeth even by other players.
You should listen to the OP because chances are he is a new player and CCP right now is very much interested in NPE feedback. He still has a fresh impressionable opinion about the game, that we staunch players have lost over the years.
Thanks OP for bringing this up. As for your suggestion, I'm against the idea of warp bubbles in High and Low sec space.
I cut to the relevant part. It is relevant because this is what people do in EVE. It is what EVE is about and why people play. There is a continual push to make the game a cute loving place with safety zones where nothing bad happens. This is not what EVE is really about. You died, you got over it. Welcome to eve.
Here is the Falcon punch, it has to be told to people because they mistake eve for WOW:
CCP Falcon wrote:
"I love EVE and the core of what the game stands for. That's why I've been dedicated to it and its community for over 11 years now.
Risk vs Reward is a huge part of that.
Honestly, if that changed, and the game started to soften out and cater to those who want to have their hand held all the way through their gameplay experience, I'd rather not be working on the project regardless of how many subscribers we had, than sell out the core principles that New Eden was built on.
That's a sentiment that I hear a lot around the office, because we are all invested in what makes New Eden so compelling - The dark, gritty, hard reality beneath the pretty ships and nebulas.
EVE is built on the core principle that you are never 100% safe, no matter where you go or what you do. When you interact with another player, you roll the dice on whether they're going to screw you over or not. That's a massive part of the social engineering behind the very basic underpinnings of the EVE Universe.
Sorry, but your scaremongering counter argument makes no sense to me and carries no weight :)"
Get some Eve. Make it yours.
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Ronnie Rose
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2017.02.18 19:49:48 -
[10] - Quote
Dolorous Tremmens wrote:Ronnie Rose wrote: *snip* But I did not I went on.
However, I say, I bet 30% of the players would, have, and will rage quit from a gate camp, ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE PAYING CUSTOMERS, because people who pay premium prices for a service expect premium treatment, not get kicked in the teeth even by other players.
You should listen to the OP because chances are he is a new player and CCP right now is very much interested in NPE feedback. He still has a fresh impressionable opinion about the game, that we staunch players have lost over the years.
Thanks OP for bringing this up. As for your suggestion, I'm against the idea of warp bubbles in High and Low sec space.
I cut to the relevant part. It is relevant because this is what people do in EVE. It is what EVE is about and why people play. There is a continual push to make the game a cute loving place with safety zones where nothing bad happens. This is not what EVE is really about. You died, you got over it. Welcome to eve. Here is the Falcon punch, it has to be told to people because they mistake eve for WOW: CCP Falcon wrote: "I love EVE and the core of what the game stands for. That's why I've been dedicated to it and its community for over 11 years now. Risk vs Reward is a huge part of that. Honestly, if that changed, and the game started to soften out and cater to those who want to have their hand held all the way through their gameplay experience, I'd rather not be working on the project regardless of how many subscribers we had, than sell out the core principles that New Eden was built on. That's a sentiment that I hear a lot around the office, because we are all invested in what makes New Eden so compelling - The dark, gritty, hard reality beneath the pretty ships and nebulas. EVE is built on the core principle that you are never 100% safe, no matter where you go or what you do. When you interact with another player, you roll the dice on whether they're going to screw you over or not. That's a massive part of the social engineering behind the very basic underpinnings of the EVE Universe. Sorry, but your scaremongering counter argument makes no sense to me and carries no weight :)"
I'll just put it this way, EVE did something I never expected it would do. It introduced Alpha Clone States, basically making it F2P. Why? To grow the game. They want new players and they want those players to become premium subscribers.
11 Years is a long time for a game, but it does not guarantee its continued survival, because old players get old; CCP is looking for new blood to sustain their business model.
As I've said 11 years ago gate camp was not a problem because the player base was low and niche. But today you have many more players so if CCP is smart they should at least evaluate the gate camp issue and it's impact to new players. They have the data to do this I'm sure, and if it turns out that the data shows gate camp negatively impacts growth then they have a problem, because in all reality, new games are coming up all the time to compete against games like EVE.
I've made a choice, to continue playing with a wary eye on gate camps, but the NPE might show others deciding to quit because of it. CCP should find that out.
And then again, maybe I'm wrong and gate camps don't matter to the NPE, but I would think there should be some data that would deny or confirm this.
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Cade Windstalker
839
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Posted - 2017.02.18 19:53:12 -
[11] - Quote
Gate Camps are a fact of Eve as a PvP game. They're not going anywhere unless you drastically change travel mechanics to make it so there are no choke points, at which point you've killed the ability for people to control who enters their space.
That's not needed and would not be health for the game. People gate camp to get kills and CCP have created tools for avoiding camps at a cost. If someone rage quits Eve *just* because they died to a gate camp I don't think they're going to have a good time here anyway, camps or no camps. |
Dolorous Tremmens
Lightspeed Enterprises Goonswarm Federation
202
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Posted - 2017.02.18 19:54:58 -
[12] - Quote
Ronnie Rose wrote:
I've made a choice, to continue playing with a wary eye on gate camps, but the NPE might show others deciding to quit because of it. CCP should find that out.
And then again, maybe I'm wrong and gate camps don't matter to the NPE, but I would think there should be some data that would deny or confirm this.
They have done their research, you should use search functions. You are wrong, gate camps matter but in the reverse of what you think they do. Educate yourself, look things up. We're not here to hold your hand and patiently repeat things so you learn by them by rote. You don't get a trophy for being dumb, count yourself lucky.
Get some Eve. Make it yours.
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Ronnie Rose
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2017.02.18 20:02:55 -
[13] - Quote
Dolorous Tremmens wrote:Ronnie Rose wrote:
I've made a choice, to continue playing with a wary eye on gate camps, but the NPE might show others deciding to quit because of it. CCP should find that out.
And then again, maybe I'm wrong and gate camps don't matter to the NPE, but I would think there should be some data that would deny or confirm this.
They have done their research, you should use search functions. You are wrong, gate camps matter but in the reverse of what you think they do. Educate yourself, look things up. We're not here to hold your hand and patiently repeat things so you learn by them by rote. You don't get a trophy for being dumb, count yourself lucky.
How would you know? Alpha Clone States was just recently introduced. You are basing your assumptions on everything before Alpha States was introduced. You have no idea how gate camps affect the NPE ever since Alpha States was introduced. |
Qia Kare
Starlight Corp
1
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Posted - 2017.02.18 20:35:31 -
[14] - Quote
At some point, a 'new player' is going to encounter a setback, whether that is a gate camp or a gank-camp. One can hardly call themselves experienced in EvE if they haven't gotten a bit of a bloody nose at least.
Encountering this early in one's career when your assets are cheap and easy to replace is certainly essential to player retention, and in setting reasonable expectations of risk in the future. Imagine a player who does not encounter a gate camp or gank until they have invested a lot of time and effort into their ships and implants. The impetus to quit is much stronger, owing to the amount of effort that would be required just to get back to where they were being so much greater than that of a newborn venture pilot.
Learning not to fly what one can't afford to lose is essential to the NPE, and moving risk to later in their careers is only going to hurt them more when they do lose something. Something they probably can't afford to lose. |
Van Doe
22
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Posted - 2017.02.18 21:10:29 -
[15] - Quote
Cynos? What about them? Use them wisely and you won't see the in or existing gate. Totally fine to avoid bubbles gat camps
I'm not trolling, I create content for everyone to enjoy.
afk cloaky in a system near you while posting in this forum.
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Wolfgang Jannesen
The Evesploratory Society
51
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Posted - 2017.02.19 14:38:50 -
[16] - Quote
It sounds like OP's whole point was solve gate camps by making them happen more often |
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
482
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Posted - 2017.02.20 18:04:30 -
[17] - Quote
Fluffy Orlenard wrote:Since I've seen many complaints regarding the dreaded gatecamp I assume its a large problem that CCP will have to face 1 day or another Assumption is the mother of all f%#kups.
<^.^> I'm a cat lol
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Amojin
Entropic Synergies Research
11
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Posted - 2017.02.22 11:02:15 -
[18] - Quote
Gate camps are part of your bane. They exist. Send a scout, first.
Sorry, I'm not being fair, right, since someone might feel left out? You are all welcome to come with me when I take a cloaky and jump. Wouldn't want to be accused of being an evern bigger a-hole than usual.
Depending on where you're going, and more importantly how many are going with you, you can just scan down a wh, jump, and repeat. Do it enough times, usually 3 or less, and you're in null-sec, somewhere, and null is a hell of a lot safer than low-sec, it seems. |
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
3
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Posted - 2017.02.22 11:21:46 -
[19] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:CCP have had since 2003 to do something about gatecamps, that they haven't should tell you that they don't consider them to be a problem that warrants their interference.
they did - They even help gatecampers to lock faster, even unlockable ships (as they align in less then 3 seconds) - but still u gonna be locked down and die :)
Van Doe wrote:Hey I really like the idea.
But you should considering leave out the part where your idea comes into action.
So basically remove your idea and your idea is a good idea.
Gate camps are a major part og eve the are used to ensure that no one enters system without your permission. If you change that it hase the potential to brake eve. At some point things need to be predicable at least to some extent.
If the predictability is not given you can't counter it.
If you want the exit to change places at least make it flowing a predictable pattern.
But this won't change anything till the camper are just going to warp to the next location.
And after all you have a random exit already since it is not clear on wich point within a radius of (not sure about the exact number) 2500m/5000m something like that you will drop out from the gate.
If u dont want to let someone enter your system, dont camp the exit gate but the enter gate... SIMPLE; U see someone on local from the entrance gate? defend the gate, get a bubble on it;
What is an idea to lock in down a burglar inside your home? Shouldnt u keep him away from your flat than letting him in and then punish? |
Trespasser
S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore
68
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Posted - 2017.02.22 20:10:05 -
[20] - Quote
No, ccp already gave you ways around gate camps... interceptors and nullified t3's
and bubbles in high sec would be completely aids.. you would have thousands of people getting dragged hundreds of KM off gates and perma bubbled by idiots like code.
bubbles stay in 0.0.
Also running a fleet in 0.0 would be completely aids aswell.. because instead of your entire fleet being in the same spot after going through a gate.. your entire fleet including capitals and all is spread out in random spots across the entire system
And that would be an enemies dream.. get to the system first.. get a hold bunch of probers and cepters and the moment the enemy fleet jumps in start the probes
Capitals take forever to warp so it wouldn't be to hard to catch a few of them
Its just a bad idea all around. |
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Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
12
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Posted - 2017.02.23 07:56:23 -
[21] - Quote
Trespasser wrote:No, ccp already gave you ways around gate camps... interceptors and nullified t3's
and bubbles in high sec would be completely aids.. you would have thousands of people getting dragged hundreds of KM off gates and perma bubbled by idiots like code.
bubbles stay in 0.0.
Also running a fleet in 0.0 would be completely aids aswell.. because instead of your entire fleet being in the same spot after going through a gate.. your entire fleet including capitals and all is spread out in random spots across the entire system
And that would be an enemies dream.. get to the system first.. get a hold bunch of probers and cepters and the moment the enemy fleet jumps in start the probes
Capitals take forever to warp so it wouldn't be to hard to catch a few of them
Its just a bad idea all around.
What's the problem to do a mechanic that if you are in fleet u spawn all your fleet in same system? What u can do with a fleet of interceptors? as they are mostly ment for a taxi and can be bloped by a smartbombing battleship? Bubbles should say in 0.0 i do agree; Do not speak about null t3 as they can be easly locked by a fast tackler cause of server ticks...
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5288
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Posted - 2017.02.23 19:07:12 -
[22] - Quote
Naye Nathaniel wrote: What u can do with a fleet of interceptors? as they are mostly ment for a taxi and can be bloped by a smartbombing battleship?
Do not speak about null t3 as they can be easly locked by a fast tackler cause of server ticks...
Thank you for demonstrating that you have zero idea what you are talking about. |
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
13
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Posted - 2017.02.23 21:56:02 -
[23] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Naye Nathaniel wrote: What u can do with a fleet of interceptors? as they are mostly ment for a taxi and can be bloped by a smartbombing battleship?
Do not speak about null t3 as they can be easly locked by a fast tackler cause of server ticks...
Thank you for demonstrating that you have zero idea what you are talking about.
Well if a banch of ceptors for you are a threat... then yeah ... :D sry :D |
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
3767
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Posted - 2017.02.24 00:04:17 -
[24] - Quote
Op, get out of an npc corp as fast as possible. Once you're out of that toxic environment you'll realise that the 'complaints' you're seeing is just whining from players who want to play a game without consequences.
Player corps will give you the tools and knowledge for bypassing gatecamps. As well as mentoring you through other parts of the game. (btw I'm hiring new bros again)
Npc corps just tell you how awful the game is and that you should stay away from other players at all cost.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
13
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Posted - 2017.02.24 11:08:29 -
[25] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Op, get out of an npc corp as fast as possible. Once you're out of that toxic environment you'll realise that the 'complaints' you're seeing is just whining from players who want to play a game without consequences.
Player corps will give you the tools and knowledge for bypassing gatecamps. As well as mentoring you through other parts of the game. (btw I'm hiring new bros again)
Npc corps just tell you how awful the game is and that you should stay away from other players at all cost.
Replay-maker; I have a cool advice for you too! If there is an idea to let your gameplay be more funnier or skill intense than just sitting on enter gate eating bannana and waiting for someone to jump with a blob of lag ships -
Throw that banana away and go for a roam than waiting like a d...k for a ez kill;
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Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
398
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Posted - 2017.02.24 12:22:57 -
[26] - Quote
I do agree with this post, I switch between my alt on this account and back because every time I go into low sec its a fleet on gate, someone smartbombing the whole thing at several locations ive gone to, someone with 15 alts trying to snipe me with their tornado fleet, etc.. depending on the circumstances if I want to do anything in low sec I need a fleet basicly and even than that depends.
Just like back in the day Autopilot was viable across high sec, now you cant even manual warp without someone taking shots at you. ive been shot at my a single dd in my bs, or instalocked in a stealthbomber because once he fires all of his assistance stops and keeps whats assisting him safe.
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Rin Vocaloid2
DUST University Ivy League
86
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Posted - 2017.02.24 18:32:32 -
[27] - Quote
Oh just harden the **** up already and train up some gate runners or nullified T3's if you hate gate camps so much. Or better yet, bring your own fleet to outnumber the gate camp. PROBLEM SOLVED. |
Reiisha
1014
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Posted - 2017.02.24 19:19:30 -
[28] - Quote
Fluffy Orlenard wrote:hello guys,
Since I've seen many complaints regarding the dreaded gatecamp I assume its a large problem that CCP will have to face 1 day or another. So I guess I can give my 2 cents on it.
I'll tell you what the idea is and explain a bit further how it could work. so the idea is when a person jumps using the gate, it jumps it in a random spot in the destination solar system instead from jumpgate to jumpgate.
that way you could avoid gatecamp...to a certain extent. This is where the fun really starts to kick in. To balance things out, interdictors and bubbles would be allowed in low sec...even in high sec if ccp want too...for me, i don't care for that part in high sec.
Why allowing bubbles ? Well if gatecamps are one of the first places to start fights in my opinion there should be a way to maintain it. Thats where the bubbles comes in. You still have to be careful when you warp to a gate but in this particular case, you wont get ganked on a gate at least.
consequences is that when you jump from high to low sec, you wont get ganked but when you warp to the gate you still have to be careful and use your brain. From low to null sec the same effect, no gatecamps except if you're dumb when warping to a gate and get stuck in a bubble.
idk, am i crazy or is this doable ?
It actually worked like this until they changed it late 2003... XD
Well, sort of at least.
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
1004
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Posted - 2017.02.26 02:38:39 -
[29] - Quote
Fluffy Orlenard wrote:hello guys,
Since I've seen many complaints regarding the dreaded gatecamp I assume its a large problem that CCP will have to face 1 day or another.
What problem with gatecamps are you talking about, exactly? You never actually said what the issue is. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3126
|
Posted - 2017.02.28 20:27:12 -
[30] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:No gates means no chokepoints. No chokepoints means it's impossible to force a fight.
This makes it impossible to actually defend...well, anything really.
I'd like both you and the OP to explain why that is a good thing.
You could try on the objective itself if there is one but good luck trying to stop a roam. |
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