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The cost of progress

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Cosmar Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.04.26 20:31:00 - [31] What i think is amazing is how accelerated is the process of creating such nostalgia on the Net. The kind of nostalgia and rose-tinted glasses that in the real world would take decades to build. But on the net people are talking of the "good old times" of .. 2003. Or even 2005. Let's not even mention stuff going on in the 90s. That's the stuff of myth and legends already I just find it very funny .
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.04.26 20:34:00 - [32] I was going to write a lengthy post about Eve losing it's certain "je ne c'est quoi" and how that's reflected on the forums, our attitudes towards the forums, the way the community has developed etc. I got two paragraphs in and decided I just couldn't be bothered. That fact speaks volumes about where we are and where we're going, particularly in relation to many of the vet's attitudes these days. Blog
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.26 20:49:00 - [33] Miss the old discussions and faces, things have changed, maybe changes in other areas are needed. Think that one thing that should be remembered as well though is that when those being judged become more and more, it becomes increasingly difficult for those doing the judging to have the intimate relationship needed to make proper use of those grey areas that do exist... But the reasons for the lack of those faces, has a multitude of reasons, and few of them can be controled. Bottomline is though, I have to agree with Blacklight. And think that's a ever increasing problem among the faces that are left... can't be arsed anymore.
General Apocalypse Amarr Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.04.26 21:08:00 - [34] I miss Hipoking and Samirol Originally by: Verone The day I go Anti-Pirate is the day satan shall be ice skating to work.
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.04.26 21:13:00 - [35] Originally by: Blacklight I was going to write a lengthy post about Eve losing it's certain "je ne c'est quoi" and how that's reflected on the forums, our attitudes towards the forums, the way the community has developed etc. I got two paragraphs in and decided I just couldn't be bothered. That fact speaks volumes about where we are and where we're going, particularly in relation to many of the vet's attitudes these days. If you're that tired of it, get out of our way. This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless...
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2007.04.26 21:41:00 - [36] What is this? A call for more homage to the old, the veteran, the days of yore? Or is it your desire for more flamboyant forum personalities, more tails of action, danger and dering-do and less crap? Or a bit of both? If the latter is what you wish, the very fact that EVE often punishes posting with a main, by it's very nature, is contraindicative. A community needs identifiable, visible individuals to love or hate; yet EVE promulgates the Alt, the metagaming, the mistrust, the spy, the subversive and the silent. Good luck with that.
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.04.26 21:48:00 - [37] Originally by: Janu Hull Originally by: Blacklight I was going to write a lengthy post about Eve losing it's certain "je ne c'est quoi" and how that's reflected on the forums, our attitudes towards the forums, the way the community has developed etc. I got two paragraphs in and decided I just couldn't be bothered. That fact speaks volumes about where we are and where we're going, particularly in relation to many of the vet's attitudes these days. If you're that tired of it, get out of our way. Too late ifni, it's gone. dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.04.26 22:01:00 - [38] I couldn't agree more with Ifni. I hope something radical is done about the situation soon :\ Depriving the community of DigitalCommunist's voice for instance is so patently absurd that EON did something about it, which really shouldn't be necessery. http://eve.klaki.net/
Farjung Gallente TAOSP Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.04.27 09:15:00 - [39] The forums were more interesting when more of the interesting personalities were still able to post. --- Wave of Mutilation 2
ry ry StateCorp	Posted - 2007.04.27 09:32:00 - [40] Edited by: ry ry on 27/04/2007 09:32:54 Originally by: Janu Hull If you're that tired of it, get out of our way. i'd imagine that many members of the very large power blocs in Eve are just holding on to see if they Win Eve before moving on to pastures new, with the remaining groups fragmenting and reshaping eve's political map. i for one hope somebody bloody hurries up and Wins Eve so the second era can begin in earnest, and we don't have to listen to misty eyed reminiscing about how spamkings who managed to get themselves banned from the forum were the best thing since sliced bread. 2007: "ah yes! i remember the summer of 03, you noobs don't know how good it used to be. how special. you'll never understand the MAGIC that used to flow through these forums. no **** off back to jita and think about how you can be more like we used to be." 2003: "LOLOL I PWN NOOBS. UR ALLIANCE IS GHEY!!"
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.04.27 10:21:00 - [41] This isn't, as some have claimed, a case of nostalgia. These forums really were a very different place. I guess a lot of that stems from how the game developed, and the integral role the forums played - especially during the beta. As some of you may be aware, I used to be far more active on the forums in the past, and I had (I think) a pretty good reputation based on my posts. I was always passionate about the game, its direction, and balance. Good debates were had, and posting seemed worthwhile. Things seem different now. I wish I knew exactly what has changed, and what, if anything, can be done. Ifni - I know what you are getting at, and I agree. please forgive posting errors - doing this on my mobile. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
NTRabbit Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2007.04.27 10:24:00 - [42] Originally by: ry ry Edited by: ry ry on 27/04/2007 09:33:32 Originally by: Janu Hull If you're that tired of it, get out of our way. i'd imagine that many members of the very large power blocs in Eve are just holding on to see if they Win Eve before moving on to pastures new, with the remaining groups fragmenting and reshaping eve's political map. i for one hope somebody bloody hurries up and Wins Eve so the second era can begin in earnest, and we don't have to listen to misty eyed reminiscing about how spamkings who managed to get themselves banned from the forum were the best thing since sliced bread. 2007: "ah yes! i remember the summer of 03, you noobs don't know how good it used to be. how special. you'll never understand the MAGIC that used to flow through these forums. now ** off back to jita and think about how you can be more like we used to be." 2003:** "LOLOL I PWN NOOBS. UR ALLIANCE IS GHEY!!" Your ignorance is astounding, and symptomatic of what ifni is describing. ------
dalman Finite Horizon	Posted - 2007.04.27 10:45:00 - [43] Originally by: Avon As some of you may be aware, I used to be far more active on the forums in the past, and I had (I think) a pretty good reputation based on my posts. I was always passionate about the game, its direction, and balance. Good debates were had, and posting seemed worthwhile. Things seem different now. I wish I knew exactly what has changed, and what, if anything, can be done. Those exact words could have been written by me. That's very spot on. The attitude on the forums have changed dramaticly. It's no golden stories about a lack of smacktalk in the past. On the contrary, strong words were hauled at the other posters constantly. But the general attitude was another "back then". Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
ry ry StateCorp	Posted - 2007.04.27 11:17:00 - [44] Edited by: ry ry on 27/04/2007 11:34:47 Originally by: NTRabbit Your ignorance is astounding, and symptomatic of what ifni is describing. and your arrogance equally so. if you disagree with me feel free to tell me why, but verbally rolling your eyes is symptomatic of what i was describing. perhaps it isn't the forum that's regressed, but you. Xxx
Nybbas Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.04.27 20:01:00 - [45] Originally by: ry ry Edited by: ry ry on 27/04/2007 11:34:47 Originally by: NTRabbit Your ignorance is astounding, and symptomatic of what ifni is describing. and your arrogance equally so. if you disagree with me feel free to tell me why, but verbally rolling your eyes is symptomatic of what i was describing. perhaps it isn't the forum that's regressed, but you. Xxx These people whom we miss, that you insult that are lost to our forums forever or more than some spammers who ran around shouting as you so eloquently put "LOLOL I PWN NOOBS. UR ALLIANCE IS GHEY!!" But they were people who actually PROMOTED intelligent thought among the forum posters, using their vast experience and knowledge of this beloved game. Some of these people whose voice has been removed, have been forced to other outlets, such as EON to help spread their knowledge of this game. The forums are worse off without them, and to disagree with this, is nothing but sheer ignorance, or a disgusting attempt at trolling. The fact that you don't realize this, makes Ifni's point even stronger.

Jacques Archambault Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.04.27 21:00:00 - [46] Thread cleaned. Please do not see this thread as an opportunity to discuss forum bans/warnings and policy, as this is not permitted on the forums. As always, if you have a question/comment/suggestion regarding moderation, you may email the forum moderator team at [email protected]. -Jacques forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website!

Soren PAK	Posted - 2007.04.27 21:09:00 - [47] I've never been a heavy poster but have spent many hours taking in everything the community has to say. It got to a point where I would scroll down threads looking for faces I recognized and respected, knowing their posts weren't just "rabble rabble". It's become much harder to find these faces, and I feel they are disappearing quicker then new ones come around. ☠-->-->--
Nybbas Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.04.27 21:18:00 - [48] Originally by: Soren I've never been a heavy poster but have spent many hours taking in everything the community has to say. It got to a point where I would scroll down threads looking for faces I recognized and respected, knowing their posts weren't just "rabble rabble". It's become much harder to find these faces, and I feel they are disappearing quicker then new ones come around. Took the words right out of my mouth
SiJira	Posted - 2007.04.27 21:20:00 - [49] Originally by: Soren I've never been a heavy poster but have spent many hours taking in everything the community has to say. It got to a point where I would scroll down threads looking for faces I recognized and respected, knowing their posts weren't just "rabble rabble". It's become much harder to find these faces, and I feel they are disappearing quicker then new ones come around. everyone romanticizes the past i read this stuff everywhere in reference to games and forums but i cannot find these perfect places when they are still "perfect it surely is not me and just an issue as stated above
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.04.27 21:25:00 - [50] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 27/04/2007 21:24:37 Have to agree. I too just can find less and less reason to continue to care really. There were times when people played the forums as a game, played their roles and even though discussions and propaganda got heated, nearly always remembered that there was something to be gained by being constructive and remaining within certain bounds. One could actually change the game. But I think that with 2006, the last year where the forums were a place where something of note happened has gone. I honestly can't name you one single person that showed up on these forums in the last year that I consider a particularly good addition. I can't remember a single discussion that has taken place in the last half year that isn't a rehash of the same old topics, just ... less good. [center] Old blog
Nybbas Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.04.27 21:30:00 - [51] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Soren I've never been a heavy poster but have spent many hours taking in everything the community has to say. It got to a point where I would scroll down threads looking for faces I recognized and respected, knowing their posts weren't just "rabble rabble". It's become much harder to find these faces, and I feel they are disappearing quicker then new ones come around. everyone romanticizes the past i read this stuff everywhere in reference to games and forums but i cannot find these perfect places when they are still "perfect it surely is not me and just an issue as stated above The Forums NEVER have been perfect, but you are oversimplifying the discussion.
Lorth Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.04.28 04:13:00 - [52] Originally by: dalman Originally by: Avon As some of you may be aware, I used to be far more active on the forums in the past, and I had (I think) a pretty good reputation based on my posts. I was always passionate about the game, its direction, and balance. Good debates were had, and posting seemed worthwhile. Things seem different now. I wish I knew exactly what has changed, and what, if anything, can be done. Those exact words could have been written by me. That's very spot on. Yep me too. Some of you may remember me, I worked hard on the way I presented myself on these forums, and actually cared about the direction of the game. And like many of us, I threw my share of heated discussion around when the debate got lively. Now as I look at really any of these forums, I hardly see anything worth replying to, and next to nothing that I enjoy reading. The game has changed, and the forums with them.
Righteous Fury Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.04.28 04:45:00 - [53] Edited by: Righteous Fury on 28/04/2007 04:43:09 Originally by: Lorth Now as I look at really any of these forums, I hardly see anything worth replying to, and next to nothing that I enjoy reading. The game has changed, and the forums with them. Bang on for me. Like Blacklight mentioned as well, I can't even begin to count the number of times I've started writing a post, then stopped halfway through and thought to myself "whats the point?" I've even been pretty trollish for the last few months (one more ban before I'm gone for good to prove it) and its got to the point where I can't even be bothered to say something non-constructive . While I do agree that the community in general is changing, I also believe that the change in at least the CAOD-style forum unity is in part due to the powers at be. From the kind notes left sprinked all over this thread, a better discussion of that would have to occur on SHC or similar. Which, incidentally, speaks volumes for those of us that remember the epic slag fests of old. It's a shame too.
Gladia Horusthu Gallente Anything Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.28 06:17:00 - [54] The changes in the forums mentioned here are largely echoed throughout Eve. I think it has to do with the transformation of a small town to a larger city, from a gemeinschaft to gesellschaft community. I remember the first days of release (at least in the US, which I know was after its release in at least parts of Europe) the crowd was very much dominated by beta testers. I barely qualified for that (got in the last couple weeks of open beta at the insistance of friends) and so was able to hook up with a corporation that included people who knew what they were doing in-game. (name at the time was grigory efimovic and you can still see him in Deep Core Mining, lost the CD key and can't remember the password though so he might as well be deleted) The whole community was different. There was none of this documentation we have today, the guides on how to do things had yet to be written, no third party utilities or websites with accurate information, and everyone relied on each other for mentoring. The only way to success was to hook up with someone who had beta'd the game and was willing to take you in. When you have no real player guides, the tutorial pretty much just tells you how to mine a Veldspar and how to damage a drone and scoop it (was that actually ever done in combat???) and everyone is trying to hoard information about resources and how to do stuff as trade secret, it really creates bonds. Also, the next generation of leaders learn how to mentor. When I returned to Eve after a break (computer melt-down, no money for a new one) the community had changed. The GNW had already begun, I believe. I hooked up with a small corp run by a kid who tried to make everyone mine for a "flagship" (a cruiser) which he promptly lost while falling asleep mining in a belt and wanted us to mine for again to replace it. I left to form a new corp, and by this time I didn't need hand-holding from a mentor to make things run OK. Our corp got to about 25 people, then merged with another corp who got into deep space stuff. I left again for a bit at this point because I prefer to be closer to Empire, helping mentor and teach new pilots when I can. When I returned to Eve yet again, there was a wide variety of tools easily accessible that pretty much freed me entirely from having to seek out any help from any established group. So I didn't. And I haven't for any of the other characters I've started since. This is not something that suddenly happened in the last few months. It is an ongoing process of transformation from a small intimate community that WAS healthier as a community to a commercially viable gaming community that shares much less history together and does not need one another for anything other than labor. Anything else seems to be a bonus. That is the problem with really large alliances. That is why the forums seem strange. That is why I almost never see Blacklight and Avon post (which is a shame). Yes, legends such as Jade may not be seen anymore for certain reasons, but the very nature of the shifting Eve community reduces the ability of someone else from being able to create a legend. Some people have, such as DS, but I think the nature of a larger player base makes it less likely that one person will have the impact (positive or negative) that certain people in the past have had. Just my observations, I know it was lengthy but so are the issues I see.
dreddish	Posted - 2007.04.28 10:09:00 - [55] 4 years now - and i still love it! i do miss old pals, and its always nice to have a look at the early forums from 2003, the olde stories from a time when 600 people online was the norm.

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