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Jollyreaper
Gallente
Ace Adventure Corp
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Posted - 2007.04.26 20:23:00 -
[1]
So, I'm a pod pilot. I have 10m skillpoints. I have the money to pay for three additional clones capable of holding that many points, plus equip them with nice ships. As far as the game storyline goes, why am I not pumping out wingman clones and taking my own fleet into battle?
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Arushia
Nova Labs
Empire Research
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Posted - 2007.04.26 20:37:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Jollyreaper
So, I'm a pod pilot. I have 10m skillpoints. I have the money to pay for three additional clones capable of holding that many points, plus equip them with nice ships. As far as the game storyline goes, why am I not pumping out wingman clones and taking my own fleet into battle?
Your mind can only occupy one clone at once, as the neural scan process used when transferring to a new clone destroys the brain of the old one.
See The Capsule and the Clone in the backstory section for more on this.
Nova Labs and Empire Research |
Encad Briht
Minmatar
United Univers
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Posted - 2007.04.26 20:39:00 -
[3]
The Method copying your brain information for the clone
in a Capsule Snapshot damages your brain massily and the jump cloning
is just a process of transferal not of copy, so you would be able
to copy yourselfs mind, but baked bread would have a higher IQ.
The generel clones of you are modified in that way that they dont contain
any braincell information, those are generated by the snapshot made of the
capsule, including the bioelectric information for what you have learned.
JumpClones have the same biological brain, but they contain a transfer of your brainwaves.
All in all the fluff is still a bit unclear about it, but i think with proper implants it isnt all that of a problem.
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Member of UU : Diplomatic Corps |
Or'Chan
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Posted - 2007.04.26 20:41:00 -
[4]
well, why can't you read from the "original" and write to two or three clones at once?
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Brisi
Veto.
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Posted - 2007.04.26 20:43:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Or'Chan
well, why can't you read from the "original" and write to two or three clones at once?
Because in terms of gameplay it would be massively retarded. Period.
Resistance is Fertile. |
Ki Tarra
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Posted - 2007.04.26 21:14:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Or'Chan
well, why can't you read from the "original" and write to two or three clones at once?
Limitations of qunatum mechanics. You can't clone quantum mechanical states. A large part of the information that makes up your brain scan is quantum in nature and can't be duplicated because of the law of physics.
Originally by: Jeffrey R. Holland
No misfortune is so bad that whining about it won't make it worse
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Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.26 21:16:00 -
[7]
I've never cloned myself an alt.
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Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.26 21:17:00 -
[8]
Tarminic is lying! He creates clones of us all the time and then has us tank level 4 missions for him in shuttles...it's so terrifying. *cries*
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VanNostrum
The Legion.
Requiem-Aeternam
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Posted - 2007.04.26 21:17:00 -
[9]
Edited by: VanNostrum on 26/04/2007 21:16:58
many clones = bad
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast! |
Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.26 21:18:00 -
[10]
SHUTUP! *hits clone over the head*
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.04.26 21:20:00 -
[11]
Where the hell did you get the idea that a "mind transfer" process destroys the originating brain ?
It's the other way around, whenever the brain is destroyed, a clone is automatically activated.
If the original brain WAS destroyed in the process, how do you explain jumpclones ?
No, the answer is much, much simpler... you could (if you wanted, and the medtechs would let you) clone endless numbers of copies of yourself. But the medtechs won't let you. Not even the renegade, pirate ones.
_
MySkills | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Sable Lowell
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Posted - 2007.04.26 21:25:00 -
[12]
How about this. You goto a station, start the multi cloning process, and then the next hting you know you come out of a clone chamber. You realize that you are a clone, but you think, feel, and know everything the original does. Now, are you going to slave yourself to the real you, or are you going to go about your business?
Basically, right now if you found out you were a clone, would you give up your life and be a slave for the "real" you?
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I can't stand lazy forum posters. They should be banned. |
Ricky Baby
The Kennels
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Posted - 2007.04.26 21:29:00 -
[13]
a couple of stories that will answer your questions if i remember then correctly
http://www.eve-online.com/background/eggers/
http://www.eve-online.com/races/wetgrave/?pp=background,stories
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Lysit Kaune
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2007.04.26 21:46:00 -
[14]
See here, it would appear it can be done to an extent, thought this doesn't explain if this is amere physical clone which has been taught to act similar, a physical clone with someone elses psycy (Though most other fiction around that part seem to indicate that is a very risky thing to try), or infact a copy of the orginal somehow.
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Hexcore
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Posted - 2007.04.26 22:24:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Akita T
Where the hell did you get the idea that a "mind transfer" process destroys the originating brain ?
It's the other way around, whenever the brain is destroyed, a clone is automatically activated.
If the original brain WAS destroyed in the process, how do you explain jumpclones ?
.
Yeah it kills or at least leaves you a veggie
Taken from Here
"Since the snapshot itself causes massive physical damage to the gray matter,"
As for Jumpclones I dont know of any official info on them. I always just figured the Jumpclone skill allowed you to keep more then one active connection to ready clones. being in a Medical Facility explains the recovery on your implants into a new clone
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Supay
Caldari
The Littlest Hobos
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.04.26 22:26:00 -
[16]
Legend has it that early experiments in such applications of cloning technology led to the creation of Lilan Kahn.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
I'll be eating out of your bins! |
sableye
principle of motion
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.04.26 22:30:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sable Lowell
How about this. You goto a station, start the multi cloning process, and then the next hting you know you come out of a clone chamber. You realize that you are a clone, but you think, feel, and know everything the original does. Now, are you going to slave yourself to the real you, or are you going to go about your business?
Basically, right now if you found out you were a clone, would you give up your life and be a slave for the "real" you?
once ypou've bee poddedonce there is no real you anymore.
asnyway unrelated to your postI am sure back story says it does'nt destroy your mind thats it just can do, thats why when your about to die ti relases poison intoyour pd just theres no chance of there being 2 of you, I amsure it also says havingmultiple clones is illegal they are already veryr estrictedas itis withthe vastmajority never been granted access to such tecnnology. There is also stories of peopel dieingand beingclones who werenever pod pilots onlyjustabcked up there brains every so often.
Join The Fight With Promo Today |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.04.26 23:44:00 -
[18]
as someone already said
if i found out im a clone i would still be a unique person since the time i was cloned
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Jimer Lins
Gallente
Sanctuary
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Posted - 2007.04.26 23:49:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Tarminic
Tarminic is lying! He creates clones of us all the time and then has us tank level 4 missions for him in shuttles...it's so terrifying. *cries*
But shuttles don't tank well- except against Templars.
He must use a lot of clones.
Sanctions, embargoes and blockades- discuss PVP with ISK! |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.04.27 00:08:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Akita T
Where the hell did you get the idea that a "mind transfer" process destroys the originating brain ?
It's the other way around, whenever the brain is destroyed, a clone is automatically activated.
If the original brain WAS destroyed in the process, how do you explain jumpclones ?
No, the answer is much, much simpler... you could (if you wanted, and the medtechs would let you) clone endless numbers of copies of yourself. But the medtechs won't let you. Not even the renegade, pirate ones.
As many have posted it is part of the backstory that making a snapshot of your mind for transfer essentially destroys the originating mind. Jump Clones do not violate this as the consciousness of the original is destroyed in the process of transferring to the jump clone. When you go back the same happens.
Perhaps the story needs to be tweaked that physical damage is not done to the grey matter to allow for jump clones. Perhaps it is better to think of going to the Jump/Medical Clone not as a copy of your consciousness but rather a bridge that allows your consciousness to slide between the two. A "copy" being impossible as another poster pointed out (you cannot clone quantum states).
As for the question of whether a clone is really "you" gets into some interesting metaphysical arguments which of course we have no answer for. Fun to debate though.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.04.27 07:41:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Supay
Legend has it that early experiments in such applications of cloning technology led to the creation of Lilan Kahn.
Pfft. I have proof!
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Nero Scuro
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Posted - 2007.04.27 08:54:00 -
[22]
You can't for the same reason you can't in real life - it's illegal. I'm pretty sure if they wanted to they could relay the information transmitted from the destroyed brain to two or more clones.
But they don't do that for social, moral, biological... too many reasons to list.
If nothing else, I bet the Jove can.
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Jollyreaper
Gallente
Ace Adventure Corp
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Posted - 2007.04.27 19:20:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Arushia
Originally by: Jollyreaper
So, I'm a pod pilot. I have 10m skillpoints. I have the money to pay for three additional clones capable of holding that many points, plus equip them with nice ships. As far as the game storyline goes, why am I not pumping out wingman clones and taking my own fleet into battle?
Your mind can only occupy one clone at once, as the neural scan process used when transferring to a new clone destroys the brain of the old one.
See The Capsule and the Clone in the backstory section for more on this.
Ok, so that trashes one brain. Why couldn't I take the data stream at that point and dub it off to several brains rather than just one?
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Jollyreaper
Gallente
Ace Adventure Corp
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Posted - 2007.04.27 19:23:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Brisi
Originally by: Or'Chan
well, why can't you read from the "original" and write to two or three clones at once?
Because in terms of gameplay it would be massively retarded. Period.
I disagree. From terms of storytelling it could get complicated. I could see an author not wanting to go there in his own universe and thus making up reasons why cloning can't work that way. But as far as EVE gameplay goes, I could easily see people wanting to fly around with their own wingmen. Treat the additional ships like megadrones. Er, wait a sec, drone AI sucks dong. Instead of losing 50k isk drones I'm losing 30m isk escorts. You're right, that is retarded. Gah!
So, back to the fluff, why can't you write to multiple clones?
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Jollyreaper
Gallente
Ace Adventure Corp
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Posted - 2007.04.27 19:28:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Sable Lowell
How about this. You goto a station, start the multi cloning process, and then the next hting you know you come out of a clone chamber. You realize that you are a clone, but you think, feel, and know everything the original does. Now, are you going to slave yourself to the real you, or are you going to go about your business?
Basically, right now if you found out you were a clone, would you give up your life and be a slave for the "real" you?
It would take the right personality to be able to do the cloning thing. For your typical evil overlord (vader/palpatine/voldemort/******/cheney) the egotism would be too strong to consent to working towards the greater good. For the right personality, I think you could easily see the clones cooperating.
I did have this wonderful nasty idea for what to do to a badguy with clone insurance (not eve setting.) So the guy has a constant uplink to an automated clone bank system. When he dies, the next clone is thawed and updated with his latest brain dump. These clone banks are hidden and automated so nobody can mess with them. Well, what happens if someone screws around with the uplink and sends fifty faked death signals? You've now got fifty different copies of the badguy, each one thinking he's the real deal, each one with complete legal access to the bad guy's resources. The result: the hero doesn't have to worry about killing him off now, the bad guy's clones will take each other out. :)
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Drizit
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.04.27 19:51:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Hexcore
Originally by: Akita T
Where the hell did you get the idea that a "mind transfer" process destroys the originating brain ?
It's the other way around, whenever the brain is destroyed, a clone is automatically activated.
If the original brain WAS destroyed in the process, how do you explain jumpclones ?
.
Yeah it kills or at least leaves you a veggie
Taken from Here
"Since the snapshot itself causes massive physical damage to the gray matter,"
One could argue that a snapshot taken at the point of death would damage the matter since it is a very fast snapshot image taken in a thousandth of a second but a longer term and more gentle reading would leave the brain intact. However, in reading the image at a slower pace, the brain is still wiped due to the electronics doing the reading interfering with the electron flow of the brain. The image can be transmitted to a jump clone but the clone that was left behind has effectively had a mind wipe.
An analogy of wiping by reading would be testing a battery voltage. Even though the battery shows x volts, you have created a circuit at the loss of a few millivolts, leave the tester inline for long enough and the battery will drain completely. Now take this to the nanovolt range of a single electron in the brain and it destroys (absorbs) the electron almost as soon as the circuit is made but the reading has been taken by then.
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