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Burn Jita - Safety for Alphas on the way?

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Ariztotle Bandits Incorporated 0	Posted - 2017.02.24 22:40:13 - [1] - Quote So CCP said a while back that suicide ganking with Alphas shouldnt be much of a problem and they were keeping the option turning Safetys On for Alphas if there was a lot of abuse or ganking got out of hand. Does the fact that the Goons are now doing this on a fairly large scale by using disposable cost-free and consequence-free Alpha alts in the latest Burn Jita mean this is now likely going to happen?
Noragen Neirfallas Rabble Inc. Legio De Mortem 3826	Posted - 2017.02.24 23:21:07 - [2] - Quote Ariztotle wrote: So CCP said a while back that suicide ganking with Alphas shouldnt be much of a problem and they were keeping the option turning Safetys On for Alphas if there was a lot of abuse or ganking got out of hand. Does the fact that the Goons are now doing this on a fairly large scale by using disposable cost-free and consequence-free Alpha alts in the latest Burn Jita mean this is now likely going to happen? Burn jita is an annual tradition. They do it every year and frankly it's just good content for everybody involved. I seriously doubt anybody will have a knee jerk reaction to it Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop ISD Max Trix favourite ISD '"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Ariztotle Bandits Incorporated 0	Posted - 2017.02.24 23:53:03 - [3] - Quote The issue isnt with Burn Jita itself, its with the use of free Alpha alts to carry out the ganking during it
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 27782	Posted - 2017.02.25 00:15:00 - [4] - Quote Ariztotle wrote: The issue isnt with Burn Jita itself, its with the use of free Alpha alts to carry out the ganking during it What's the issue? Burn Jita happens once a year, it's not like there are armies of Alpha alts ganking on the scale of Burn Jita every day. In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. New Player FAQ Feyd's Survival Pack
Noragen Neirfallas Rabble Inc. Legio De Mortem 3826	Posted - 2017.02.25 00:20:47 - [5] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Ariztotle wrote: The issue isnt with Burn Jita itself, its with the use of free Alpha alts to carry out the ganking during it What's the issue? Burn Jita happens once a year, it's not like there are armies of Alpha alts ganking on the scale of Burn Jita every day. You don't understand though there is right now thus it's an epidemic Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop ISD Max Trix favourite ISD '"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
MadMuppet A Better Corp Name 1229	Posted - 2017.02.25 01:51:28 - [6] - Quote I would say, wait and see. Alphas are limited to their skill sets and the ability to run on a single computer (in theory, tech savvy can work around that). This is going to be a test of the impact (good or bad) of the Alpha. This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.
Ariztotle Bandits Incorporated 0	Posted - 2017.02.25 07:17:46 - [7] - Quote Fair enough burn juts is only once a year but it is still a pretty major incident of abuse of Alpha clones. Many billions of isk getting destroyed. And if people see this sort of thing working successfully this weekend then chances are it will be used more frequently.
Starrakatt Celtic Anarchy The Bastard Cartel 652	Posted - 2017.02.25 07:54:29 - [8] - Quote Ariztotle wrote: Fair enough burn juts is only once a year but it is still a pretty major incident of abuse of Alpha clones. Many billions of isk getting destroyed. And if people see this sort of thing working successfully this weekend then chances are it will be used more frequently. It was already happening before Alpha Clone states, using throwaway secondary/tertiary account alts, or even Mains. What's new? It makes no difference. Thus there is no abuse. Join Celtic Anarchy! Sneaky bastard.
Omar Alharazaad Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 3262	Posted - 2017.02.25 07:56:16 - [9] - Quote Use and abuse are different things. I don't see how the alphas are going to make a significant difference, to be honest... other than letting some folks who would not otherwise participate enjoy the festivities. Or are you suggesting that alpha characters be denied access to types of gameplay within their skillset simply because they're not paying accounts? Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Clockwork Robot Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 44	Posted - 2017.02.25 12:44:53 - [10] - Quote Ariztotle wrote: So CCP said a while back that suicide ganking with Alphas shouldnt be much of a problem and they were keeping the option turning Safetys On for Alphas if there was a lot of abuse or ganking got out of hand. Does the fact that the Goons are now doing this on a fairly large scale by using disposable cost-free and consequence-free Alpha alts in the latest Burn Jita mean this is now likely going to happen? There. Right there, that's the issue here. You just knowingly and publicly outed yourself as not only being completely aware of Burn Jita as an event, but you went even further, and identified ways in which the annual event is going to be perforned. So. We established that you are in full posession of the facts. And you want CCP to do something for you. Well, I'll take care of this one for you, Ariztotle. If you want to not lose ships during this event, if you want to show your frustration with this event, if you wish to reduce your chances of being disrupted in any way during this event... Dont. Log. In. Its so very easy. Play another game. Let CCP do CCP. You do you. Or hell. Log in and ship-spin while chatting. Talk to your would be gankers, while safely invulnerable. Take grown-up, adult measures. Don't whine for "halp".

Zarek Kree Lunatic Legion Holdings 22	Posted - 2017.02.25 14:31:48 - [11] - Quote Given that Burn Jita has been happening annually for a long time, I don't really see how anything is different now with Alpha clones. They used to use newly minted trial accounts to suicide gank. In fact, I'd argue that alpha clones make it harder than it was under trial accounts because you're limited in what skills you can train. With 2+ weeks of unlimited training on a trial account you could get a much stronger gank alt than you can with an alpha clone. If CCP was okay with it before, I don't see any reason why they'd suddenly stop allowing it. Nothing has changed. Besides, I kind of get a kick out of it. I think most people do.
Syds Sinclair Aliastra Gallente Federation 274	Posted - 2017.02.25 17:09:03 - [12] - Quote Ariztotle wrote: The issue isnt with Burn Jita itself, its with the use of free Alpha alts to carry out the ganking during it ..Stop being a prude.
BJBee 9999 Suddenly Seamen. A Naval Charity 0	Posted - 2017.02.26 02:46:26 - [13] - Quote meh. i alpha, and i burned a little piece of jita. is ok i tell you.
Bronson Hughes The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration 3071	Posted - 2017.02.26 03:42:18 - [14] - Quote Omar Alharazaad wrote: Use and abuse are different things. Spoken like a true drinker. Bottom's up mate! Relatively Notorious By Association My Many Misadventures I predicted FAUXs
Msgerbs Imperial Assualt Guild 59	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:26:00 - [15] - Quote The only potential issue I see with this is that using an alpha means you don't need to care about sec status, etc. If they're just rerolling brand new alphas every year then I think it would fall under similar rules as biomassing characters to lose negative sec status. If they're just creating alphas that they use only for ganking and nothing else, I don't see the problem. It's basically the same as creating another character used only for ganking.
Tsutomi Sakuma KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:57:27 - [16] - Quote Zarek Kree wrote: Given that Burn Jita has been happening annually for a long time, I don't really see how anything is different now with Alpha clones. They used to use newly minted trial accounts to suicide gank. In fact, I'd argue that alpha clones make it harder than it was under trial accounts because you're limited in what skills you can train. With 2+ weeks of unlimited training on a trial account you could get a much stronger gank alt than you can with an alpha clone. If CCP was okay with it before, I don't see any reason why they'd suddenly stop allowing it. Nothing has changed. Besides, I kind of get a kick out of it. I think most people do. Nail, meet hammer.
YeuxVerts Belle Catastrophic Operations The Bastion 52	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:51:38 - [17] - Quote Msgerbs wrote: The only potential issue I see with this is that using an alpha means you don't need to care about sec status, etc. If they're just rerolling brand new alphas every year then I think it would fall under similar rules as biomassing characters to lose negative sec status. If they're just creating alphas that they use only for ganking and nothing else, I don't see the problem. It's basically the same as creating another character used only for ganking. I was tempted to join the goons there with my main. I don't care about sec status nor killrights, since i live in nullsec. What would i have to lose? The above message presents my opinions on the topic at hand. If there is a conflict between my views and reality, consider reality to be correct until proven otherwise.
Noragen Neirfallas Rabble Inc. Legio De Mortem 3831	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:33:54 - [18] - Quote YeuxVerts Belle wrote: Msgerbs wrote: The only potential issue I see with this is that using an alpha means you don't need to care about sec status, etc. If they're just rerolling brand new alphas every year then I think it would fall under similar rules as biomassing characters to lose negative sec status. If they're just creating alphas that they use only for ganking and nothing else, I don't see the problem. It's basically the same as creating another character used only for ganking. I was tempted to join the goons there with my main. I don't care about sec status nor killrights, since i live in nullsec. What would i have to lose? Your Pride Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop ISD Max Trix favourite ISD '"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri New Order Logistics CODE. 712	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:32:30 - [19] - Quote I fail to see a problem here, to be honest. As it was mentioned previously, Burn Jita wasn't remarkable for the use of apha clones. It's the sheer number of people involved that has made it possible. You don't see 200 to 300 characters on a single gank every day. Anyone who's taken at least one step beyond being a lowly F1 grunt knows that it's a big pain in the ass to rally such a large mass of people and make them do what you want them to do for a long enough period of time, especially when most of those people aren't accustomed to the given type of activity, like highsec ganking. Entities like Spectre Fleet could also organize a 300-man op with alpha characters and just roam the galaxy in free disposable ships, kicking ass wholesale (and I suppose, they did), but no one would complain that alphas are disposable and imbalanced in that instance. It's a matter of perception, really. Besides, it's very important to mention that alphas can't be multiboxed, not without breaking the EULA, at least. It means that whoever signed up for Burn Jita with an alpha had to sacrifice a lot, dedicating their entire EVE time to the event. They couldn't rat or mine at the same time, only gank. Neither did they have any financial incentive (none that I'm aware of, at least), the killmails and the memories of "being there when Jita burned" being their reward. We professional gankers don't use alphas in our everyday activities, since we rely heavily on multiboxing to scout and loot and don't have the numbers to make any significant use of the crappy T1 DPS more often than not. Being one of the people responsible for CODE.'s recruitment efforts, I have observed that the majority of alphas coming to us are either brand-new players or someone who's decided to try something new in EVE. After we show them how to gank, they either bring in subbed chracters or get filtered out, because the entry barrier into the trade of gankng is relatively high. To sum up, Burn Jita has had a tremendous effect on the community, and threadnoughts like this one are yet another testimony of it. However, the success of the event can only be attributed to the gank fleets' FCs and all the players who've helped to build and deliver the ganking gear and bring together massive numbers of participants. Those people are truly gods among men.
Agondray Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces 401	Posted - 2017.02.27 11:55:21 - [20] - Quote hey why not, goons have said if they can break something, it will be done. ie look at drones and heavy missiles. also what are other things they broke? "Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith

Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out 3981	Posted - 2017.02.27 12:11:26 - [21] - Quote Ariztotle wrote: The issue isnt with Burn Jita itself, its with the use of free Alpha alts to carry out the ganking during it so you are saying people should have to pay to gank, like an omega privilege? Alliance Logo Design Service -- Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel -- "Okay. So that was a pile of word salad..." - Bjorn Tyrson
Noragen Neirfallas Rabble Inc. Legio De Mortem 3832	Posted - 2017.02.27 12:16:34 - [22] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Ariztotle wrote: The issue isnt with Burn Jita itself, its with the use of free Alpha alts to carry out the ganking during it so you are saying people should have to pay to gank, like an omega privilege? TBH if anything should have to be paid for it's mining. People should at least have to pay to commit to the game before we subject them to that horror Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop ISD Max Trix favourite ISD '"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Jagd Wilde Hageken Helldivers 77	Posted - 2017.02.28 02:15:22 - [23] - Quote Yea I agree, every highsec activity should be off limits for Alpha clones. If you can't be bothered to help support EVE then you don't deserve the benefits of high sec. If you want to try EVE for free, go to low or null and have at it. This includes mining, exploration, hauling, anything and everything. What rights should anyone have if they refuse to pay like the rest of us? Get subbed or get rekt. Every alt I own has a red safety, this has brought my friends much laughter.
Zarek Kree Lunatic Legion Holdings 28	Posted - 2017.02.28 04:29:41 - [24] - Quote Jagd Wilde wrote: Yea I agree, every highsec activity should be off limits for Alpha clones. If you can't be bothered to help support EVE then you don't deserve the benefits of high sec. If you want to try EVE for free, go to low or null and have at it. This includes mining, exploration, hauling, anything and everything. What rights should anyone have if they refuse to pay like the rest of us? Get subbed or get rekt. The people who are least capable of surviving in lowsec or nullsec are new players. Highsec is for those who still need training wheels - and there's nothing wrong with that. Given the limits on alpha clones, I find it hard to see how they're somehow taking benefits that they don't deserve. The point is to give them enough time playing the game to decide to become a paying customer.
Armalite NARVAL Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2017.02.28 04:41:07 - [25] - Quote Jagd Wilde wrote: Yea I agree, every highsec activity should be off limits for Alpha clones. If you can't be bothered to help support EVE then you don't deserve the benefits of high sec. If you want to try EVE for free, go to low or null and have at it. This includes mining, exploration, hauling, anything and everything. What rights should anyone have if they refuse to pay like the rest of us? Get subbed or get rekt. Yeah Burn F*****g Alphas !! ...or not. "Deserve it...." sic... Are you seriously think about all this alpha thing. CCP dont give free acces to EVE for long years. Only a 7 day trial. Discover Eve in 7 days. Yeah, sure ! And then they go for this alpha acces. Why ? Hmmm... maybe to resplenish the player pool, maybe to give the game a new impulse... Many alphas will try EVE and go away. Others try a bit and go for Omega because it's juste frustrating to be limited, and 20 buck per month for hours of gametime it's not a such big deal. But throw newbies in nullsec to play or, like the OP suggest implicitly, limit the possibility to engage in red dot activities and a bunch of Alphas just quit. Because it's not fun. Because the Alpha limitations are already pain in the ass. Goons try to exploit a game mechanic ? Woauuu ! Big news ! It's what Goons do. I guess Eve and his community will survive. And being a dik with Alphas it's juste a pathetic attitude. I try this game and take time to understand how things run before to rush like an idiot with my wallet in hands. It's free ? Good, i take ! And why i will go for Omega before having all my Alpha skills maxed ? Why throw my money away before find cool people to play with ? I support many games througt the time and i can understand this "Pay like others" attitude but seriously think twice before shitt*g on Alphas because in the mass of noobs and others kids may be your futurs corp pals.
Mike Adoulin Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters 2118	Posted - 2017.02.28 13:42:31 - [26] - Quote Zarek Kree wrote: The people who are least capable of surviving in lowsec or nullsec are new players. Highsec is for those who still need training wheels - and there's nothing wrong with that. While I agree that hisec should be considered training wheels and not the horribad ISK faucet that it actually is, noobs can actually do better in null/low then in hisec. Original Goonz and Brave Newbies have proved this many, many times. Hell, back when I first started playing it took me 3 months before I even flew into hisec...and man, I absolutely HATED it. Everything in EVE is a trap. And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:) You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg. Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Noragen Neirfallas Rabble Inc. Legio De Mortem 3842	Posted - 2017.02.28 19:20:46 - [27] - Quote Mike Adoulin wrote: Zarek Kree wrote: The people who are least capable of surviving in lowsec or nullsec are new players. Highsec is for those who still need training wheels - and there's nothing wrong with that. While I agree that hisec should be considered training wheels and not the horribad ISK faucet that it actually is, noobs can actually do better in null/low then in hisec. Original Goonz and Brave Newbies have proved this many, many times. Hell, back when I first started playing it took me 3 months before I even flew into hisec...and man, I absolutely HATED it. Respectfully I disagree. while newbies 'can' do well out in nulsec they have more ability to thrive in one of the empire space areas because there is much more content from a PvE perspective they can tackle on thier own so if the group they are joining can still provide the PvP content based out of highsec or lowsec than empire space is probably better for newbros. It's also eaiser for them to experiemnt with ship fitting cause markets Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop ISD Max Trix favourite ISD '"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Jagd Wilde Hageken Helldivers 82	Posted - 2017.02.28 21:35:47 - [28] - Quote Zarek Kree wrote: The point is to give them enough time playing the game to decide to become a paying customer. Highsec is not safer for new players than living in null with a good group of players, EVE is an MMO after all. If you think otherwise then you have never left highsec, and you are part of the problem. Allowing Alpha alts to learn EVE the wrong way, highsec, does not help them. It only makes them targets and prevents them from learning correctly. Like it or not, Alpha's have been here long enough that if they were going to help sub numbers significantly, we would have thousands of new subs. What I have seen is thousands of free accounts leeching off CCP's good will. I speak to players all the time that have had Alpha ONLY account(s) for months now and can't give a valid reason why they haven't subbed yet. If you don't believe me, try it yourself, get out and speak to these Alpha clones. Start convo-ing everyone who started since the patch, you will find the Alphas pretty quick. Go for the 3-4 month old chars. Ask them why they are not subbed yet. Open your eyes. Every alt I own has a red safety, this has brought my friends much laughter. Get Subbed or Get Rekt.
Jagd Wilde Hageken Helldivers 82	Posted - 2017.02.28 21:38:53 - [29] - Quote Armalite NARVAL wrote: A lot of tears. You need to calm down miner. Get subbed or get rekt. Every alt I own has a red safety, this has brought my friends much laughter. Get Subbed or Get Rekt.
Zarek Kree Lunatic Legion Holdings 29	Posted - 2017.03.01 03:08:17 - [30] - Quote Jagd Wilde wrote: Zarek Kree wrote: The point is to give them enough time playing the game to decide to become a paying customer. Highsec is not safer for new players than living in null with a good group of players, EVE is an MMO after all. If you think otherwise then you have never left highsec, and you are part of the problem. I think you're getting a little too emotional. Good people can simply disagree. At the point when you start declaring those who disagree with you to be "part of the problem", the intellectual credibility of your argument becomes suspect. Null is only safer than highsec if you have a strong corp and social support structure. But, most new players don't even have a clue what a corp is or how they work. Most people hear about EVE, go to the website, download the client and start playing. Unless you join at the behest of an experienced player who then mentors you, new players lack the social contacts to immediately join a nullsec corp. The BNs and PHs of the game can't take every new alpha that signs up. That would leave most alphas alone in null trying to figure out the game. You CAN learn to swim in the middle of the ocean while sharks circle you if people are there to teach you and beat the sharks away. But who's going to do that for every rando who wanders in to try the game? Even if I agreed with your philosophy of dumping alphas into nullsec (which I don't), it's simply not workable in any realistic way. Not to mention it does nothing to entice new players to continue playing the game. Nobody knows what the sub numbers are other than CCP. Your anecdotal experience talking to random people may or may not be reflective of reality. If CCP isn't getting the subs they're hoping for, then I'm sure they'll tweak the system. But doing SOMETHING is better than watching the sub numbers continue to trickle away year after year. But they correctly recognize that attracting new players to the game isn't the problem - keeping them is. Alpha alts are as good a solution to the problem as any I've heard - and much better than just dumping them all into nullsec.



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