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High Sec Ganking - CONCORD Balance request

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NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 716	Posted - 2017.02.26 00:48:25 - [1] - Quote Personally, i think there should be a system that makes it harder to cope with Concord in high sec the more you gank and the more your sec status drops. Sure, the first gank should be like it is now with the 15 minutes Concord timer and the normal reaction time for Concord. But the next / 2nd gank you do in high sec will increase that timer to 1 hour where Concord will be even faster on getting you because Concord see you as a more threat over what you was the first time. If you do the 3rd gank. That timer will go up to like 6 hours where Concord pretty much will try to kill you really fast (it will be fast but still possible to fly from a station to a gate in a fast frig and jump out right away before you get killed by Concord) in high sec if they see you if you are in high sec within that 6 hours timer, as Concord now will see you as the highest threat. If you do the 4th gank within a day, you will then be completely locked out from high sec for 24 hours. Within that time, you will have the oppoturnity to fix your sec status by carebearing it up or even buying sec status tags (with an alt or something) so Concord wont whoop your ass because of your pretty bad security status. Yes, this is all about risk vs reward. If you want a good reward, you have to risk alot of things. But as the system is now, the only thing you have to risk is 15 minutes of waiting for the Concord timer to run out. And that's pretty dumb in my opinion as it should be way more risk involved in ganking more and more players in high sec. TLDR: Make Concord way harsher against gankers the more they gank. It's a simple system that works. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 716	Posted - 2017.02.26 00:59:53 - [2] - Quote baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: Personally, i think there should be a system that makes it harder to cope with Concord in high sec the more you gank and the more your sec status drops. Sure, the first gank should be like it is now with the 15 minutes Concord timer and the normal reaction time for Concord. But the next / 2nd gank you do in high sec will increase that timer to 1 hour where Concord will be even faster on getting you because Concord see you as a more threat over what you was the first time. If you do the 3rd gank. That timer will go up to like 6 hours where Concord pretty much will try to kill you really fast (it will be fast but still possible to fly from a station to a gate in a fast frig and jump out right away before you get killed by Concord) in high sec if they see you if you are in high sec within that 6 hours timer, as Concord now will see you as the highest threat. If you do the 4th gank within a day, you will then be completely locked out from high sec for 24 hours. Within that time, you will have the oppoturnity to fix your sec status by carebearing it up or even buying sec status tags (with an alt or something) so Concord wont whoop your ass because of your pretty bad security status. Yes, this is all about risk vs reward. If you want a good reward, you have to risk alot of things. But as the system is now, the only thing you have to risk is 15 minutes of waiting for the Concord timer to run out. And that's pretty dumb in my opinion as it should be way more risk involved in ganking more and more players in high sec. TLDR: Make Concord way harsher against gankers the more they gank. It's a simple system that works. Why? Because logic? Try commiting any crimes in rl and tell me how fast you are able to come back to the same city / place or whatever doing your next crime? You for sure wont come back there within 15 minutes, or even a day. That's for sure. Exactly, you wont be back anytime soon. And if you commit even more crimes after you are released from jail from doing the first crime, then you will be punished even harder by the police where you freedom will be even more long gone. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 716	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:05:46 - [3] - Quote Siobhan MacLeary wrote: dude this is a game remove the stick from your ass and untwist your knickers, stop being stupid and stop acting like this suggestion of yours is anything beyond you going "Waaaaaaaah I got ganked waaaaaah CCP needs to cater to me waaaaaah" Lame excuse. Maybe you should explain why my idea is dumb instead so we maybe can agree why it might be a dumb idea to begin with instead of coming with lame excuses so you can keep doing your low risk, no penalty ganking forever? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:31:12 - [4] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Because logic? Try commiting any crimes in rl and tell me how fast you are able to come back to the same city / place or whatever doing your next crime? You for sure wont come back there within 15 minutes, or even a day. That's for sure. Exactly, you wont be back anytime soon. And if you commit even more crimes after you are released from jail from doing the first crime, then you will be punished even harder by the police where you freedom will be even more long gone. RL? You mean like how flying in space is like flying in water? And never mind that it is a game and not RL? Is that the kind of logic you are referring too? So just because "it's a game", there should be no rl logic / elements in the game? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:33:53 - [5] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: CCP should not be balancing player's actions. If a player takes on too much risk it is not CCP's problem, it is the players problem. You can't patch out stupid. Yet here we have the OP trying to patch out stupid. CCP should balance the game where criminals is getting threated like criminals and not like the free pass to do gank fovever with no risk and no penalty as it is now. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:36:03 - [6] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: So just because "it's a game", there should be no rl logic in the game? No, of course not. Your logic is flawed because the norms in game are not the same as RL. Stealing in RL is not tolerated, yet there is virtually no in game mechanism to punish a corp thief or a scammer. OMG!!! CCP!!! Fix scamming. Patch it out. It is not like RL. If you find out who stole from you in EVE, there is basicly a million ways you can hunt that player down and make his ingame life miserable. So that excuse doesn't hold water. Dom Arkaral wrote: No. Also, HTFU Kthxbai Why? You can't just say no without explaining why, can you? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:42:59 - [7] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: This is not Candy Land, this is EVE. If you take on too much risk, you bear the consequences. The OP is just flat out wrong on the basic nature of the game. Don't take on more risk than you can tolerate. That's it. A freighter being suicide ganked generally the player has taken on too much risk. Is lame excuses all you can give? You don't even give any reasonable arguments or reasons why there shouldn't be a system in EVE like i mentioned. So why should we listen to you? You said this is EVE yadda yadda yadda. Yes we know it's EVE, but EVE still has to be balanced both towards normal players AND the gankers. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 01:51:46 - [8] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Thats not a joke. Thats the game. Don't like it? Don't play. Goons even announce this event ahead of time. If you are still getting ganked its your own dumb arse fault and ccp aren't going to protect you from your own stupidity. So basicly, the game can't be changed for the better, just because EVE is EVE. So i have to stop playing EVE because EVE is EVE and it can't be changed is what you are saying? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 03:02:02 - [9] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: This is not Candy Land, this is EVE. If you take on too much risk, you bear the consequences. The OP is just flat out wrong on the basic nature of the game. Don't take on more risk than you can tolerate. That's it. A freighter being suicide ganked generally the player has taken on too much risk. Is lame excuses all you can give? You don't even give any reasonable arguments or reasons why there shouldn't be a system in EVE like i mentioned. So why should we listen to you? You said this is EVE yadda yadda yadda. Yes we know it's EVE, but EVE still has to be balanced both towards normal players AND the gankers. I keep repeating it hoping you'll understand the point. The freighter pilot creates the ganking opportunity by overloading his freighter. You keep calling it lame because you can't logically refute the point. And the cash-transport car also creates the ambush / stealing oppoturnity for peoples who want to do crimes / steal money. But that alone doesn't mean the criminals can just keep going and steal the money everytime they see a cash-transport car with no consequences for continueing to do that. Your excuses doesn't work. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 03:04:11 - [10] - Quote Janeos wrote: I haven't seen a vein of salt this rich in YEARS. This has nothing to do with salt. It has all to do with balancing the game out for what criminals are allowed to keep doing days in and days out without risks or consequences. You know pretty well you have a nice luxury doing this and doesn't want to have a harder time doing this the more crimes you do. Dom Arkaral wrote: tl;dr op hates ganking op wants ganking to dissapear by havong concord preventing ganks XD CONCORD is there to punish, not to prevent That's how it always was, that's how it'll stay Yeah, Concord (like the police) is there to punish you harder and harder the more crimes you do. Isn't that kinda logic? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 03:27:51 - [11] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: This is not Candy Land, this is EVE. If you take on too much risk, you bear the consequences. The OP is just flat out wrong on the basic nature of the game. Don't take on more risk than you can tolerate. That's it. A freighter being suicide ganked generally the player has taken on too much risk. You obviously dont know that goons sit in jita ganking whatever they can 24 hours a day. They are able to sit in 0.9 and 1.0 system stations with -10.0 security status. When they undock they dont even have to worry about faction police. They jump whereever they want and gank whatever they want without any negating gameplay effects whatsoever. All it takes is a mach bumper on each gate and they can stop any freighter that they desire and hold them as long as they desire. Bumpers do not go suspect and can even target the freighter so that it cant log out for 15min. Its a complete joke. And yet all of this can be avoided by: 1. Not over stuffing your freighter. 2. Using a scout. 3. Having your scout use webs. There are options for prudent play but the OP prefers to reward stupidity. 1. So that means i can't take money with me or my smartphone in my jacket when i'm out walking, just because there can be thieves that can just rob me time after times? Ofc not. You will take those things with you because the police are there to catch those thieves and punish them if they rob me. And if they later are robbing others again, then ofc the police will punish them even harder for comitting the same crimes over again. Or what do you think, they should get a clap on the shoulder being told not to do those nasty things everytime? 2. Yeah, let's just call my friend that has to hold my hand everytime i go to the grocery store so he can look around for some baddies or naughty peoples so i don't gets scared by them. Not only that, but you don't see a freaking police car in front of a moneytransporter car everytime they are going to deliver money or whatever. 3. You shouldn't have to use an alt to be able to fly a freighter in a normal way in empire. Yes, you can use an alt for some extra benefits that way. But you shouldn't have to use one with the freighter pilot to be able to use the damn things in empire. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 03:45:01 - [12] - Quote Circo Maximo wrote: Where did you get the idea that you should be able to be invincible in highsec? CCP has never told you this. You should need to be organized to protect yourself in an MMO. There are single player games available if you don't want to play with others. I have nowhere in my statements said high sec should be invincible. Do you read what i'm saying bro? All i have said that the gankers should get harder and harder times against Concord the more they gank each day. What's bad about that? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 03:50:02 - [13] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Circo Maximo wrote: Where did you get the idea that you should be able to be invincible in highsec? CCP has never told you this. You should need to be organized to protect yourself in an MMO. There are single player games available if you don't want to play with others. I have nowhere in my statements said high sec should be invincible. Do you read what i'm saying bro? All i have said that the gankers should get harder and harder times against Concord the more they gank each day. What's bad about that? If you want ganking to be harder or not as profitable, you pay attention to what you're doing and don't present them with easy or juicy targets. It's that fecking simple. Still doesn't makes the idea of getting the Concord to be harder against the gankers the more they gank bad in any ways. There should be some kind of a trade off for doing that more and more. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 04:02:21 - [14] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: You don't live in New Eden. Different set or norms and laws/rules. So right off you are looking silly. Second, a smart phone and even a couple hundred in cash is not like stuffing half your life's savings into your wallet. Even in RL, if you took half your wealth, stuck in your pocket and went walking down the street most people would consider that imprudent. After all, if you need to move half your wealth from A to B you could just go over to B open an account and write a check against your account in A. You could have A transfer it. You have options for far, far safer modes of moving large amounts of wealth. Who said anything about how much money i'm traveling with? For all you know i can travel with ALOT of money. And you can buy rather expensive smartphones out there. Just look at the Vertu's out there. Teckos Pech wrote: You are the one wanting hand holding by not just a friend, but by all powerful NPCs. The ironic is so rich here. No, i want criminals to get a harder time against the Police / Concord the more crimes they do within one day. That's all i want. I'm not against ganking at all if you eally think i'am doing that. Teckos Pech wrote: Who said alt. Ask a friend. You do have friends in game, right? I've had a friend scout for me. I've scouted for friends. Still the same. You shouldn't be in need of others to just move ships around as long as you aren't in a war with someone. If they are at war, then it's for another topic and a totally different thing. Not only that, but scouting for gankers in Destroyers is very hard. Because one second a gate can be clear and tells the Freighter to jump in. But because the freighter is so slow at entering warp, you can basicly sit 2 jumps out with some Destroyers and just head towards the freighter and gank it before it had entered warp. Not only that. Should every Freighter polits just stop doing what they are doing, just because they see a potential bumping Machariel at gates to? Once a freighter is getting bumped by some Machariel or whatever, the chance of getting out is very low. So some simple bumps is all that is needed to ruins someones days. So it shouldn't be that easy to gank others. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 04:10:50 - [15] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: If you want ganking to be harder or not as profitable, you pay attention to what you're doing and don't present them with easy or juicy targets. It's that fecking simple. Still doesn't makes the idea of getting the Concord to be harder against the gankers the more they gank bad in any ways. There should be some kind of a trade off for doing that more and more. Why are you expecting NPC's to make it harder for gankers? You already have the tools to do it yourself. Gankers will adapt to any changes that happen with regards to Concord response, just as they have in the past. People will still continue to do stupid stuff like put eleventy billion isk in an untanked freighter and AP it through a chokepoint, they will explode and this thread will start all over again. For example, some of the changes people suggest and the gankers obvious response Faster response times : Bring more DPS Longer timers: They switch between gank characters. Scaling response times on ganking history : CCP's database admin ganks you for making his life hell. It's a constant cycle of one more nerf will fix ganking, and it never does because ganking isn't the problem, stupidity is. CCP can't patch stupid. Again. Do you think it's fine that you get the exact same treatment from the police / Concord everytime you do a crime over and over again over being punished harder and harder the more crimes you do (which is logical by human nature by the way)? And why do you think it's fair that i get the same treatment from Concord for suiciding on a Rifter as you get for suiciding a massive freighter? If i steal a small pack og bubblegum and if i steal a car, do you think i will get punished the same for stealing the pack of bubblegum as i get for stealing the car? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 04:34:51 - [16] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Why are you expecting NPC's to make it harder for gankers? You already have the tools to do it yourself. Gankers will adapt to any changes that happen with regards to Concord response, just as they have in the past. People will still continue to do stupid stuff like put eleventy billion isk in an untanked freighter and AP it through a chokepoint, they will explode and this thread will start all over again. For example, some of the changes people suggest and the gankers obvious response Faster response times : Bring more DPS Longer timers: They switch between gank characters. Scaling response times on ganking history : CCP's database admin ganks you for making his life hell. It's a constant cycle of one more nerf will fix ganking, and it never does because ganking isn't the problem, stupidity is. CCP can't patch stupid. Again. Do you think it's fine that you get the exact same treatment from the police / Concord everytime you do a crime over and over again over being punished harder and harder the more crimes you do (which is logical by human nature by the way)? Concord don't care how often you kill, they only care that you kill without sanction. What you're suggesting is that Concord have access to someones kill history and scales their response accordingly, which raises questions. How do they distinguish between legal and illegal kills for scaling purposes? How much work would be required to implement your suggestion? Would the time spent implementing this be better spent elsewhere? Would it actually fix anything? Quote: And why do you think it's fair that i get the same treatment from Concord for suiciding on a Rifter as you get for suiciding a massive freighter? Your crime is that you shot something without the appropriate flags. What you shoot is completely irrelevant. Quote: If i steal a small pack og bubblegum and if i steal a car, do you think i will get punished the same for stealing the pack of bubblegum as i get for stealing the car? Your analogy is flawed, this is not about value, this is about the actual act of crime. Using you example of cars, if you steal a car, be it a Bentley or a Kia, the Police and the courts wouldn't care what car you stole, they only care that you stole a car; your punishment is for the crime of stealing a car, not stealing a Kia or a Bentley. You still haven't explained why Concord shouldn't take into consideration on how much you have ganked each day? Yeah, Concord should punish you harder and harder within the Concord timer ONCE they take you for doing a new crime. Yeah, Concord doesn't looks after that now, but that doesn't mean they can't do it in the future. Because it's normal that when you commit a crime, it should be harder and harder for you to avoid Concord within the Concord timer the more crimes you do. If you do not agree with this, then please give reasonable reasons why this wouldn't work? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 05:17:16 - [17] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: You still haven't explained why they should, nor have you taken into consideration what would need to be done on the back-end for Concord to work in this way. I have explained why. I have explained it's the police's work to keep track of your crimes. And the more crimes you do, the more they will punish you. Doesn't that sounds right to you? And most things is possible to do in EVE today, so making Concord harder against you the more you do crimes should be no problem to fix. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: The fact of the matter is that they don't. You commit your crime, your ship dies and you get to wait out a 15 minute timer. Once that timer is up your record is wiped as far as Concord is concerned. If someone ganks multiple ships each day they have a low security status and are likely free to be engaged, shoot them in the face when they undock, shoot them in the face at the gates before they start shooting other people in the face. Yeah wow, the whole 15 minutes until you can do the same crime over and over and over in the infinite without having anything to worry about. Yeah, that's professional police / Concord work right there that allows that to happen over and over again without giving you more penalities. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: The tools to inflict retribution over and above that provided by the game are already in your hands, that's what they're there for. Stop being lazy and expecting CCP to further punish ganking via mechanics changes; use the tools at your disposal to do it yourself. So all freighter pilots have to use this and that to be able to function as normal in high sec while you gankers doesn't have to be dependent on anything else for a bumping ship to be able to do what you are supposed to do? Again, i'm not saying you shouldn't be able to gank. I'm just saying the penalties should raise the more crimes you do, which is normal in our human nature to do against criminals. SO why shouldn't it be the same in EVE when EVE is all about humans in space to begin with? Jonah Gravenstein wrote: The means are also there to make gankers go and pick another target, many are common sense precautions, some require knowledge of game mechanics. What people forget is that Eve is above all a full loot PvP game; you don't AFK, you don't carry all your shiny stuff, you don't fit your ship with nothing but cargo mods, this is some of that common sense. Like i have said, you are free to go and gank more stuffs. But the challenge will be harder as the police / Concord will be hunting you and will try to kill you more actively and faster the more you do crimes. This is a normal police tactic. So i don't see why it can't be like that in EVE. --------> Continues on next post. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 05:18:30 - [18] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: How? You lose your ship in seconds, you can't warp, you cant undock in anything but a pod. The only thing left is podding, gankers won't care, they'll just use implant free clones for ganking and wake up in a med clone at the same station, because they're not daft and set the station that they're working out of up with a med clone. Yeah, you lose a ship worth a couple of million isks and 15 minutes of your time. Such a horrible punishment to lose when you takes into the consideration that you freely without ANY risks except for losing the worthless ship can just do this over and over and over again every 15 mins without any other consequences. You think it's ok to do crimes this way over and over and not being punished harder over continuing doing the said crime? Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Which part of you can't avoid Concord did you fail to understand? It's mechanically impossible and if you do find a way it's a ban. I never said avoid Concord. I said to be able to get away somewhere AFTER Concord have killed you for doing a crime while being within the Concord timer. If you do commit a crime or suicide someone, then Concord will kill you. If you avoid that, then yes, it's a bannable offense. But that's not what i'm talking about. I'm talking about leaving a system under the Concord timer AFTER you have been killed by them. I'm just saying it should be harder to roam in high sec the more crimes you do each day from downtime to downtime. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: See all of the above, you're another one that has no idea how Concord and Crimewatch actually work. I'm sorry, but look at my replies over first before you claim i have no clues. I have been plahing EVE since early 2004, but i for sure knows how this works. All i want is a system that will makes it harder for players who have committed a crime to freely roam around in high sec without getting caught by Concord or whatever. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 05:19:45 - [19] - Quote Imya Wormhole wrote: I love how he is using the goons WWB background while complaining about goons ganking him. If you are talking about me, then no, i use the Voltron / MBC background from the WWB. The other one that is the new background is the Imperium one. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 05:23:29 - [20] - Quote Circo Maximo wrote: All capsuleers matter. Your freighter doesn't deserve more protection from CONCORD than that rifter. If what you have is so valuable, protect it better. One person shouldn't be invincible anywhere in the game. You already have CONCORD killing everyone that attacks people and attacking criminals on sight. Put more time in playing smarter instead of sitting there begging for your hand to be held more. Don't play an MMO if you don't want player interaction. But this is not about what ship you fly. It's about the crimes you do. The more crimes you do, the more penalties or consequences you should face. It's logic by human nature to threat criminals like that. So the same should be in EVE to. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 05:27:16 - [21] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Imya Wormhole wrote: I love how he is using the goons WWB background while complaining about goons ganking him. I love how both the OP and NightmareX appear to be wholly ignorant of the mechanic that they're trying to "fix". Says the guy who think doing crimes over and over again should not gain you more penalities or consequences. Don't pretend to be a smart guy if you can't explain why there shouldn't be a system like that in EVE. Oh i forgot. That's because you then can't do the risk free and no consequences ganking all day long as easily as you can do it today. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 05:40:46 - [22] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Yes, it's a game. So just because it's a game, the game can't be improved or balanced to let criminals be threated as actual criminals? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 05:48:04 - [23] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Nobody is saying that the game shouldn't be improved, we're saying that your suggestion isn't an improvement in our opinion. And why isn't it an improvement to actually threat criminals as actual criminals? EDIT: Going to bed now, so i will answer or give out new posts if needed later today. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 17:49:25 - [24] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Nobody is saying that the game shouldn't be improved, we're saying that your suggestion isn't an improvement in our opinion. And why isn't it an improvement to actually threat criminals as actual criminals? Because in all likelihood it will fail miserably to change anything because gankers will adapt and keep on ganking. This is what history tells us about nerfs to ganking. Gankers get nerfed Gankers adapt. People still explode and whine on the forums about it. Someone else comes up with a great idea to make ganking more difficult. Ad infinitum. The grand circle of one more nerf. Now your turn to answer a question. I wrote: Why should the people who put effort into their gameplay be penalised for it, while at the same rewarding those who don't put any effort or thought in at all? How is that anywhere near balanced? It seems that you don't understand what i'm talking about here. I haven't been talking anything about how the gankers will adapt and all of that. All i have said is that the more they gank, the more Concord will hunt after the actual ganker, like in real life if you goes around stealing stuffs. The more you streal, the more the police will be on your ass busting you. And to the other things you said. The reason i want ganking to be harder is because being a criminal is something you are not supposed to be, specially not all the time without massive consequences. If you are a criminal in real life, you wont be able to do those crimes for many times before you are busted by the police anyways where you wont be able to do those crimes for a long time again. And why should the gankers have it more easy to do ganking over the freighter pilots doing freighter runs in high sec? Again, all that is needed to stop a whole freighter run is a single Machariel. Is that fair towards the freighter pilots when the others peoples have no direct tools to stop a gank fest to stop? Yes, why should you be able to easily stop a freighter or kill it when we others can't do that towards the gankers before it's to late? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 18:12:05 - [25] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: But that is the point. Ganking an empty freighter happens, but rarely, aside from events like Burn Jita. Like i have said, the ganking in it self are fine. What's not fine are the consequences the gankers gets after a gank. The consequences are WAAAAAAAY to little / small over what it really should be. It's that simple. Teckos Pech wrote: Well, in the U.S. you can travel with any amount of money. Of course, if the police stop you they could take it via civil asset forfeiture. So, you arenGÇÖt even safe from them. Maybe CONCORD should start ganking the odd overstuffed freighter and call it civil asset forfeiture. BTW, with civil asset forfeiture law enforcement must merely suspect wrong doing, not actually charge you with a crime. Well, there are many other countries than USA out there though. And now i'm not talking about walking around with 100.000 dollars or something like that. I'm talking about maybe 2000-3000 dollars that is considered ALOT for most normal peoples. So yes, you should be able to walk around with that amount of money. However, if you get robbed or something, then the police will find those guys and punish them hard for stealing my money. And if they are even continuing to steal money from others after they are released the first time for stealing, then their punishment will be even harder. That's what i want to see in EVE. I want to see the criminals get punished harder and harder the more crimes they do. This is again a normal thing to do towards criminals in humans nature. So i don't see why this can't be in EVE. Teckos Pech wrote: Use local for the love of God. Set known ganking organizations red. Use webs. Tank your freighter. DonGÇÖt put too much value in it. There are plenty of idiots out there you just have to be smarter than them. Let the gankers eat them while you sail on through. Did you even bother to read what i said? I said that one moment the local can be clear for the Freighter pilot to jump in, but the next moment after he have jumped in, there can be a Machariel arriving at the gate that will ruin the Freighter polits day. Not only that, but Destroyers are fast and can take several jumps from the system where the Freighter is and arrive on the Freighter in no time. So how many Machariels does the Freighter pilot have to set red and how many alts do the Freighter pilot needs to be able to scout himself several jumps ahead to avoid getting caught be some gankers who can again, take several jumps in no time in Destroyers and arrive on the Freighter before the Freighter even have been able to enter warp? Basicly, the Freighter pilots will have a hard time doing their business with just the Freighter alone, while you gankers can just freely fart around shooting whatever you want, without any problrms or anything? And you are suprised to see peoples reacting to the stupid system that is now that wont punish players harder and harder the more crimes they do? Teckos Pech wrote: Yes, at this point you have basically screwed up several times. 1. Too much stuff in your cargo hold. 2. No scout. 3. No webs. 4. You probably anti-tanked your freighter. 5. You are almost surely going to die. You should have not done everything wrong in 1-4. 1. I'm again not against getting ganked for traveling with to much stuffs in the cargohold. Read what i'm talking about. 2. One scout is not going to be enough for a Freighter pilot anyways as he will need to be scouting several systems in advance for the Freighter pilot to make sure it's ok. So that again, is just stupid. 3. Why should he need webs on an alt to be able to do his business? 4. You shouldn't have to tank your freighter as a normal practice. If you know you are going to low sec or any other areas that are SUPPOSED to be dangerous, then it might be something else. 5. And as you are so sure to die, then i don't see the problem with a system that punished the criminals harder and harder the more crimes they do because the Freighter pilots have such high chance of dying without having to use a billion alts and stuffs. So again. Give EVE a system that punished the criminals harder and harder the more crimes they do, because that's freaking logic. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 18:15:56 - [26] - Quote baltec1 wrote: A single ship with webs will get a freighter into warp so fast it will warp backwards. And why should a Freighter pilot be in need of an alt or others to be able to fly around? As i have said a million times. I'm not against you guys ganking freighters and that. I'm against the lame system against criminals in EVE that is in EVE now. EVE needs a new system that takes into account on how much a criminal does ganking or crimes where the Concord will be harder and harder the more crimes you do. Sure, you can gank 3 freighters a day, but you will have issues later to do anything in high sec for one day then. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 18:22:43 - [27] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: NightmareX wrote: Yes, why should you be able to easily stop a freighter or kill it when we others can't do that towards the gankers before it's to late? But you can? Y'know, really quite easily? Hint: get a fast locking ship and camp a gate you know gankers will be coming through. Now, in a similar vein, why should a single pilot who takes absolutely no precautions whatsoever be immune to the actions of two dozen or more organised and specialised players who want to ruin his day? Nowhere else in eve is one unprepared player going to do anything but die against superior numbers, tactics and fits, so why should this not also be the case in highsec? Hint. A fast locking ship on a gate wont stop the actual ganking. If some gankers can force the Freighter or any other ships to be killed, then there should be a system where the Freighter pilot / others pilots also should have more power on their hands where the Concord will punish the gankers harder and harder the more they do their crimes. Why should everyone else be totally defenseless against ganking that will happen every 15 minutes when the gankers have the luxury of doing the crimes with a success rate of 99% where they can't be stopped? Don't you think there should be more consequences for the criminals this way when the non-gankers are so defenseless against being ganked? Daichi Yamato wrote: Freighters are corp level assets like other capitals. They aren't meant to be flown solo. You don't HAVE to use an escort but when you can ignore every ganker at the expense of a frigate with a couple of webs, why wouldn't you? I know about many players out there who are flying Freighters alone, because they are alone in their own corp. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 18:32:40 - [28] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: NightmareX wrote: I know about many players out there who are flying Freighters alone, because they are alone in their own corp. Boo hoo. That's their choice. Its an mmo. It shouldn't pander to solo play. Yes, it's their choice of play. But that shouldn't ruin their gamplay without letting them see that the criminals are getting punished harder and harder the more crimes they do against them. Again, there should be a balance here which EVE doesn't have atm. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 18:37:46 - [29] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Please explain how killing a ganker en route (or just holding him in place while the facpo do it for you) doesn't save a freighter. Please explain how jamming a ganker doesn't stop them ganking. Please explain how shooting a ganker in the face before concord show up doesn't save a freighter. Please explain why a solo freighter pilot with zero precautions taken and 5bil in their hold should be immune to the specific, targeted and organised actions of two dozen other players. Please explain how being free to engage anywhere by anyone any time is not a penalty. Please explain why being chased through highsec by facpo who WILL kill you if you're slow to warp is not a penalty. Please explain, exactly, how anyone is defenceless, how gankers cannot be stopped, how freighter pilots have no options and how making highsec an awful lot safer for people who aren't even at thier keyboards is good for the game. In short, no, I do not think there need to be extra penalties for gankers. I think there need to be extra penalties for lazy and/or stupid freighter pilots who think they are invincible because they are in highsec. The issue here that you don't seems to figure out is that a single ganker is not the problem here. The problem is when there are like 100+ gankers on one freighter or whatever. That is impossible to stop. So why should Concord be so friendly against those gankers when there is no ways to stop a gank in that scale? And why shouldn't Concord punish criminals harder and harder? You are a criminal after all and not a wonderboy. Danika Princip wrote: I know of people who are out in thier Nyx alone because they are in one man corps. Doesn't make a super any less of a corporate asset now, does it. A Nyx can't enter high sec. Yes, we are talking about Concord and high sec here here if you haven't figured that out yet. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:00:24 - [30] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: 100+ gankers on one freighter happens during burn jita events. Events which happen maybe twice a year, and are talked about for months in advance. Which there are warnings about all over the place, and which the freighter pilots are choosing to ignore. (And which involve frankly ludicrous amounts of work from the people doing the organising, but I'm sure you don't care about that either.) As has been said hundreds of times now, you can't patch stupid. Why should concord be so friendly to freighter pilots who can't be bothered to engage with the game or take any kind of precaution whatsoever? Why should the SOLO freighter pilot be safe from the actions of your ONE HUNDRED PLUS gank pilots? An unsupported titan will die if you throw a hundred subcaps at it, why not a freighter? Still doesn't matter. A criminal should still be treated as a criminal no matter what the circumstances are. And newsflash. We are still talking about what happens in high sec and how Concord is. So i'm not sure why you are dragging in Titans into the discussion when Titans can't enter high sec? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:10:49 - [31] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: NightmareX wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: NightmareX wrote: I know about many players out there who are flying Freighters alone, because they are alone in their own corp. Boo hoo. That's their choice. Its an mmo. It shouldn't pander to solo play. Yes, it's their choice of play. But that shouldn't ruin their gamplay without letting them see that the criminals are getting punished harder and harder the more crimes they do against them. Again, there should be a balance here which EVE doesn't have atm. Ruin how? Getting shot IS the game. Are you really suggesting that if players cannot get from A to B in safety that their game is ruined? You think you have the right to get around this game at all, let alone solo? Because if thats really the case, this is not the right game for them. Bringing us back to: Dont like it? Dont play. And how many freighters do you think are ganked? Serious question. 1 in 50? 1 in 100? 1 in 500? Newsflash. I know EVE is about getting shot. But does that mean you can just gank over and over forever in high sec without getting any harder circumstances / penalties the more you gank in places where you are supposed to be relatively good protected from getting ganked over and over? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:47:42 - [32] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: 'RELATIVELY good protected' And there it is. Compared to low, null and WH it is there is plenty of deterrent to ganking. In fact, ganking hardly happens anymore. Not like it used to. Youre wrong if you think its ruining the game. If it was, the more it was nerfed the more players we'd keep right? Instead the more its nerfed the less players we have. Ganking used to be easier and cheaper, and the game grew in subscriptions every year. Players are quitting cause they are bored. Not because of meany gankers. Yeah i said relatively safe which means you are not 100% safe, but should still be pretty safe in high sec. And that means safe enough to not getting ganked over and over from the same type of crime while the criminals isn't getting punished any harder the more crimes they do. But you aren't really being treated like a criminal if you aren't getting any harder consequences / penalties if you still can just do the same crime over and over without getting it harder to do the crimes you do each days. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 19:52:58 - [33] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Newsflash. I know EVE is about getting shot. But does that mean you can just gank over and over forever in high sec without getting any harder circumstances / penalties the more you gank in places where you are supposed to be relatively good protected from getting ganked over and over? First off, I'm not sure I agree you do understand the nature of the game...but lets set that aside. Why should players who are foolish be protected from their foolishness? So flying around with a freighter is suddenly foolish just because they can't use a billion alts to scout several systems ahead of potential bumping Machariels that doesn't really have to be a bumping Machariel and to scout for some baddies that can travel from several jumps out and reach the targeted freighter before the freighter can warp out anyways? How much work do you expect a freighter pilot to do to make sure he can fly around relatively safe without getting ganked all the time? When you as a ganker can fly around in high sec suiciding others that easily, then the freighter pilots should be able to do their job as easily that way to. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 21:37:14 - [34] - Quote All i see here is butthurt gankers that doesn't want to get their easy life of ganking over and over in the infinite to be harder and being butthurt that someone have an idea on a system that actually punished the criminals harder the more they do crimes every day, like the law enforcement always have handled criminals in the first place. I mean, you are a freaking CRIMINAL to begin with. You are not supposed to be able to continue the criminal activity that easy the more you do it. It should be harder to do the crimes the more you do it. And this is EXACTLY what you can't even explain why it shouldn't be in the game. It doesn't affect ganking. It just affect the challenge of continuing doing it the more you do crimes. All you have as an excuse is that 'it's a game' and 'this is not how things works'. News @ 11. Even though things isn't working like that now, what prevents it from being like that by changing the game for the better for everyone? Remember, a criminal is supposed to be treated as a criminal and not like it is now with the insanely low 15 minute timer of Concord timer. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:27:35 - [35] - Quote NightmareX wrote: All i see here is butthurt gankers that doesn't want to get their easy life of ganking over and over in the infinite loop to be harder and being butthurt that someone have an idea on a system that actually punishes the criminals harder the more they do crimes every day, like the law enforcement always have handled criminals in the first place. And being butthurt over someone explaining you gankers that you don't understand the concept of how criminals are supposed to be treated. I mean, you are a freaking CRIMINAL to begin with. You are not supposed to be able to continue the criminal activity that easy the more you do it. It should be harder to do the crimes the more you do it. And this is EXACTLY what you can't even explain why it shouldn't be in the game. It doesn't affect ganking at all. It just affect the challenge of continuing doing it the more you do crimes every day. All you have as an lame excuse is that 'it's a game' and 'this is not how things works'. News @ 11. Even though things isn't working like that now, what prevents it from being like that by changing the game for the better for everyone in the future? Remember, a criminal is supposed to be treated as a criminal and not like it is now with the only insanely low 15 minute Concord timer. I feel that i need to quote myself here, because no one seems to be willing to counter argument what i'm saying here. I wonder why? Yes, please explain to me why criminals shouldn't be treated as criminals in EVE? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:34:30 - [36] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Well, since they are criminals, you could go and hunt them as the devs have made that possible? I mean, I am pretty sure that is the reason you can shoot criminals freely? How does that help to shoot the criminals when that already are to late as they in 99% of all cases have killed their target before i can do something about the criminal? This is why it should be harder for the actual criminals to continue doing it the more they do it as it's impossible to prevent a gank before it's to late for the target they are suiciding on anyways. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:37:19 - [37] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Well, since they are criminals, you could go and hunt them as the devs have made that possible? I mean, I am pretty sure that is the reason you can shoot criminals freely? How does that help to shoot the criminals when that already are to late as they in 99% of all cases have killed their target before i can do something about the criminal? This is why it should be harder for the actual criminals to continue doing it the more they do it as it's impossible to prevent a gank before it's to late for the target they are suiciding on anyways. If your security status falls low enough, you can be shot without you having any timers on. Hence I used the word "criminal" and not " a player with criminal timers" But how does removing a criminal for tiny 15 minutes help in this case AT ALL when they are back doing the same thing over and over and over again every 15 mins? It's normal by human nature that the police will whoop your ass harder the more crimes you do. So why shouldn't it be the same in EVE? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:46:11 - [38] - Quote Lei YingLu wrote: That debate can go either way, I could ask for a 5 minute timer while those who are on the wrong end of it are asking for an hour. Almost every single timer in the game is 15 minutes or less. The exception being the Jump Fatigue timer. There should be a jump fatigue type of timer for criminals. The more you cyno jump, the more jump fatigue you get. It should be the same for committing crimes. The more you commit crimes, the more timer you get against Concord. And the more crimes you have done to, the more harsher the police will be against you to. That's how it should be, because criminals are still criminals and nothing else. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:51:22 - [39] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: NightmareX wrote: But how does removing a criminal for 15 minutes help in this case AT ALL when they are back doing the same thing over and over and over every 15 mins? It's normal bu human nature that the police will whoop your ass harder the more crimes you do. So why shouldn't it be rthe same in EVE? How is it ruining peoples game? No one cares about your real life comparisons. At best they should be taken with a grain of salt. If CONCORD are to behave like real police than they should die when we shoot them and not be omnipotent. They should have a limited amount of ships and take minutes rather than seconds to respond. And travel through gates rather than magically spawn. You can refer to this post when i ignore future 'but real life!' BS posts from you. Oh look, no one cares about real life things you say. No, YOU don't cares about it because it makes your ganking life harder. Ofc you don't want it to be harder and will ofc be against it. No suprise there. Criminals independent of what it is or where it is, should have it more harder the more crimes they do. It's logic. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:55:34 - [40] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Daichi is not a ganker. Nor am I really. I did it as part of Burn Jita events, but outside of that...not really. I'm pretty sure you all here have alt's who does that day in and out and are using the excuse that you don't do it with one character. I'm not flat out stupid if you think i'am that. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.26 23:59:32 - [41] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Daichi is not a ganker. Nor am I really. I did it as part of Burn Jita events, but outside of that...not really. I'm pretty sure you all here have alt's who does that day in and out and are using the excuse that you don't do it with one character. I'm not flat out stupid if you think i'am that. Nope my alts are all pretty combat incapable as they are for making ISK. I would like to see some proofs on that claim. Not only that, but you don't have to be much of a PVP character to fit out a Destroyer and gank something. That's something everyone can do. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:03:44 - [42] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: I'm pretty sure you all here have alt's who does that day in and out and are using the excuse that you don't do it with one character. I'm not flat out stupid if you think i'am that. You'd be wrong. 1 account, 3 characters. This one, my main, jack of all trades. No kills My exploration and anom running alt. 2 wardec kills A character with the skills he was born with and a habit of making fun of people in Amarr local. No kills. Like i said over, you don't have to be much focused into PVP skills to be able to fly a lil Destroyer to be able to gank with it. That's something most players can do in no time. EDIT: And if you are not a ganker, then why are you so much against treating criminals like actual criminals then? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:09:28 - [43] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: NightmareX wrote: EDIT: And if you are not a ganker, then why are you so much against treating criminals like actual criminals then? How is that relevant? Why does one need to be a ganker to not think ganking is a bad thing? I don't gank either. Because if you are a criminal, you should be treated as a criminal that will get a harder time doing crimes as the police will be way more over you ass the more crimes you do. That's what this whole topic is about, making a system that punishes the criminals harder and harder the more crimes they do. And how will this affect ganking at all? It just makes it harder to do the ganking. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:10:44 - [44] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Tell you what why don't you post your API for all your alts and accounts first. I asked you first. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:25:02 - [45] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Tell you what why don't you post your API for all your alts and accounts first. I asked you first. Daichi is right...you really are childlike. Fine don't believe me. I don't care. Your argument is based on a fallacy anyways. If that is the best you got...you got nothing. So you don't want to prove what i asked from you. Ok. Don't expect anyone to take you seriously then. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:27:11 - [46] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: EDIT: And if you are not a ganker, then why are you so much against treating criminals like actual criminals then? He has an interest in what is good for the overall game, not his own personal agenda. And you think it's good overall for the game to let the players who get suicided over and over and over every 15 mins see that the criminals doesn't get punished harder for continuing the criminal activities where they just freely can do that without any risks for them? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:29:05 - [47] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Daichi is not a ganker. Nor am I really. I did it as part of Burn Jita events, but outside of that...not really. I'm pretty sure you all here have alt's who does that day in and out and are using the excuse that you don't do it with one character. I'm not flat out stupid if you think i'am that. Nope. And how would i prove it. I can link every char i have and you'd still try to claim that i'm hiding just one more account. So whats the point? Your logic is to say that anyone who doesnt want ganking nerfed MUST be a ganker. And you wonder why we cant take you seriously enough to reply to your posts? We've been very gracious replying to your senseless tripe this far. I honestly don't mind if you can argue your case but i dont think youre even trying. Endless ganking ruins the game - How? Can you show us this somehow? Because apparently less than 1% of players leaving the game claim ship loss to be the reason. The vast majority of players leaving seemingly do so out of boredom/lack of engagement. Real Life - Is a good guide everynow and then. But only when backed up with gameplay, other wide CONCORD shouldnt be omnipotent. So what gameplay benefits will come from preventing endless ganking loops? We've asked you this, but you dont really respond to these points. Still wondering why i want to ignore you? Well, you haven't explained to me why criminals in EVE shouldn't be treated like criminals though. So if you can't answer that simple question, then don't expect anyone else to answer your questions. Maybe you should do a google search of what a criminal is and how they are treated by the law enforcement before you claim to know how a criminal is supposed to be? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:31:37 - [48] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: It doen't matter, you'll just claim I have a fourth or fifth account....short of giving you access to my credit card account, and even then you'll likely say I have yet another account with yet another credit card. Nope. So knock of this childish bullshit, it is just making you look like an idiot. As you don't know the definition of what a criminal is and how they are supposed to be treated and because the way you are against a system like this that is logic by human nature to treat criminals, then i do believe you infact are a massive ganker with an alt that doesn't want to have a harder time for doing the crimes over and over. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:42:17 - [49] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: If you have a 0 or positive sec status can anyone shoot you without a CONCORD response? No. Can you shoot a -10 without a CONCORD response? Yes. You are factually wrong. If you have 0 in sec status, nothing will happen from the faction police. If you however do a gank / suicide against someone, then Concord will first kill you and give you a 15 minute timer. Everything here is normal. Next gank you do, you will get a 1 hour timer from Concord. And everything here is still normal except that you will get a longer Concord timer for each gank you do. And so on until you will get locked out from entering high sec in a ship except for a shuttle for a whole day. Yeah, let's say you can do 4-5 ganks every day before you get locked out from entering high sec in a ship except for a Shuttle. And if you do the gankings that lowers your security status, then the faction police should be much harder against you the lower your security status is. Because of that, you have to work for your security status to be able to avoid an evantually brutal faction police. The whole point is that you shouldn't be able to enter high sec in a fitted ship, or a ship (except for a Shuttle) at all if you have a low enough security status to begin with. Yes, if freighter pilots have to use a bunch of alt or others to be able to do their business, then you should also be forced to use alts or other friends to get a new ship that you have bought in Jita out of Jita to be able to continue doing your ganks. Doesn't that sounds fair? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:45:21 - [50] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: You do know this is a game? Certain things are different in here, that you wouldn't do in real life. I doubt you would be going around shooting people in the face in real life, just to have fun. Fun gameplay > copying real life. Doesn't matter how much of a game it is. A criminal should still be treated as a criminal, and not like a teddybear farting around causing harms all the time without any consequences. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:47:15 - [51] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Should we also ban people with positive sec-status from lowsec,null and w-space due to arbitrary reasons because I don't like them being there? Wouldn't that be fair? No, because low sec and 0.0 space doesn't have the same restrictions as high sec have. High sec does have tons of rules that doesn't exists other places, because high sec is supposed to be a relatively peacefull place and not Chinatown. Yes ofc, you can still do crimes in high sec, but it shouldn't come without harsh consequences for keep doing the crimes. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:50:39 - [52] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: @Nightmare, But i have. Having gankers around and able to attack us frequently keeps us engaged. Keeps us on our toes. Makes me want to seek other players for safety in numbers. Its thrilling. Right now im mostly auto-piloting and its boring. Its more fun when i'm carrying ridiculous amounts of stuff and either ask for help or have to make a meaningful choice. Its an adrenaline rush to go through Uedama with 10bil in a freighter on a weekend. That ** is supposed to gets you shot at...and yet i havent been. Anyways, that danger, that adrenaline rush is addictive. Playing with others creates moments, stories we tell others that makes them want to play this game. Whether they are stories of killing a whale freighter, stories of getting through a gank by the skin of your teeth or stories of preventing a gank with your friends. Ganking is content. Content means subs. Make it happen more. I'm not sure, but i haven't said anything about removing ganking or changing the actual ganking mechanics in EVE. I have said that YOU as a criminal should face harder consequences the more crimes you do. Doing ganking will still be possible all day long, but it will be much harder to successfully do the more you have done it as the police will catch you way faster and kill you much faster as you have pissed off the police for commiting crimes more and more. Logic101 for you right there. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:** 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:54:50 - [53] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: Should we also ban people with positive sec-status from lowsec,null and w-space due to arbitrary reasons because I don't like them being there? Wouldn't that be fair? No, because low sec and 0.0 space doesn't have the same restrictions as high sec have. High sec does have tons of rules that doesn't exists other places, because high sec is supposed to be a relatively peacefull place and not Chinatown. Yes ofc, you can still do crimes in high sec, but it shouldn't come without harsh consequences for keep doing the crimes. You are less likely to die in highsec than you are in anywhere else in Eve, with the exception of trade-hubs (if you are carrying too valuable cargo in a ship that isn't tanked enough) People pay for breaking the rules of highsec. You cannot run from CONCORD. Low security standing limits what they can do in highsec as well. Not to mention giving YOU the ability to shoot at criminals for free. Yet that is not enough for you. If you think that criminals need to be banned from highsec, why should you be allowed to freely travel to lowsec or null? Shouldn't the NPC's stop you from going there as only criminals live there? Still doesn't change the fact that criminals should be treated like criminals and not like teddybears farting around doing whatever they like to do without any consequences for continuing doing the crimes. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 00:58:27 - [54] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: @Nightmare Making ganking more difficult and more punishable makes ganking less frequent, which is bad. It doesn't. You all said the same thing last time ganking was nerfed where Concord doesn't pay out insurance to gankers anylonger. But what did happen? Yes, they did keep going as nothing had happened. Same will be here. All that will be different is that you have to be more clever and more smart to be able to keep doing the ganking after your first ganking and so on as the consequences will be harder the more you gank. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:00:21 - [55] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Erich Einstein wrote: Lei YingLu wrote: Okay, I'll bite. Criminals in real life based off of the crime they commit are given a punishment of jail time based off of laws put in place. Every crime has a set standard punishment as far as minimum and maximum. This is very much the same in Eve. Eve has put down standard consequences based off of different crimes committed. Because the game doesn't treat podding someone like 1st degree murder is treated in real life doesn't mean that there are not consequences. Ever heard of three strikes and you are out. This applies to repeat offenders. RL is not as generous as EVE. You can adjust the hit you take for podding in lowsec along with the OP, I have no problem with that. But technically, you shouldnt be podding in lowsec if you dont want to hurt your security status. Maybe because it is a game and meant to be fun. Well if you have the right attitude. So the game can only be fun for the gankers? Do you think it's fun for the freighter pilots who basicly can die every 15 minutes to some ganking because there is no system in EVE that gives the gankers more penalty the more they gank? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:03:06 - [56] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Like I said if you have the right attitude. Obviously you seem to be deficient in that category. You didn't answer my question. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:06:01 - [57] - Quote No one is saying anyone should be locked out of high sec. We are only saying the criminals should get penalized harder the more crimes they do in high sec. Is that so hard to understand? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:07:21 - [58] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Like I said if you have the right attitude. Obviously you seem to be deficient in that category. You didn't answer my question. The answer is, "No." Everyone can have fun. Again, do you think the freigher pilots is having fun knowing they can get ganked over and over all day long every 15 minutes because the criminals doesn't get harsher consequences / penalties the more crimes / ganking they do? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:09:21 - [59] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Ganking doesnt happen anywhere near on the scale it used to. Ganking miners used to be something everyone did, it used to be profitable. Now not so much. Freighter ganking used to be done by quite a few groups, but now there are only two of any significance. You use to be able to perform two ganks on two different grids with one ship by being aligned before concord showed up. Maybe one nerf doesnt have a significant effect on ganking, but its quite evident to me that the multitude of nerfs ganking has suffered has had an affect. -EHP buffs to both miners and freighters -faster responses from concord -Nerfs to ganking tactics like hyperdunking and warping away from concord -Insurance removed -Suspect timers as oppose to old aggression rules -Kill rights becoming public It has most certainly taken its toll, and we've lost players for it. Do you have any evidences to prove that? Remember that back in the days, there was WAAAAAY lesser peoples playing EVE. So you should rather look at the number of gankings / total players in EVE and then see on how the ganking today actually is compared to the old days. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:11:34 - [60] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Not true. What if one commits their criminal acts in LS? You want to effectively lock them out too. And maybe you should re-read the OP. If their crimes have been done in low sec, things should be like it is now. Nothing is needed to be changed there. We are however talking about the crimes you have done in HIGH SEC. Then it will be something else. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:15:15 - [61] - Quote Lei YingLu wrote: There is more penalty, the lower my sec status goes, the less area's that I can go with out being hunted by Faction Police and eventually being able to be freely attacked anywhere in the game by everyone. This is all in addition to the kill rights that people receive and have every opportunity for a period of 30 days to hunt my ass down and kill me. The more people I kill the more of those I have as well. My point is and was in the quote portion earlier is that there are set consequences just like there is in real life that you keep trying to compare this to. Ehh ok? You can still fly around in high sec in a Destroyer with a -10 sec status. All you have to make sure is that no one tackles you before you enters warp. But that's relatively easy to avoid. The fact is that if you are categotized as an outlaw (-5 or lower), you shouldn't be able to be sitting in a ship (except for a Shuttle) while being in high sec. Yes, you have to use an alt or other friends to be able to get your newly bought ships out of Jita and high sec in the same way as freighter pilots have to use a bunch of alt or friends all the time according to you to be able to do their business. So don't you think it would be fair that way towards the gankers to that they will need alts or others to be able to keep doing their crimes with new ships and so on? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:17:10 - [62] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Erm, yeah, so less players but more ganking = more ganking per player. Yeah i could quickly prove that my barge has taken more shots in previous years than this last few, and given more time could use zkill to see how many freighters die in this last year compared to previous. Again, where is the proof on your claims? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:24:26 - [63] - Quote Lei YingLu wrote: Again, there are consequences. But it is not absolute. You get a DUI you lose the ability to drive a car, not to ride a bike. Those consequences are way to low. That's why EVE needs a new system where the criminals gets punished harder the more crimes they do. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:30:23 - [64] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Which means you want to reduce the amount of ganking. No, he want to make it harder to keep ganking the more you do it. It's totally different from preventing ganking or reducing it. All that is needed are more clever and smarter pilots that needs to work a bit harder to be able to keep ganking. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:44:25 - [65] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: All that is needed are more clever and smarter pilots that needs to work a bit harder to be able to keep ganking. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. All that is needed for gankers to have to work harder is for freighter pilots to stop being morons and start to fly like they're clever and smart people. No, YOU as the ganker is the ones that has to work harder for keep doing the ganking as the consequences / penalties will rise the more you do it, because you are a criminal. The freighter pilots shouldn't do anything more than what he have to do now for doing his business. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:47:22 - [66] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: All that is needed are more clever and smarter pilots that needs to work a bit harder to be able to keep ganking. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. All that is needed for gankers to have to work harder is for freighter pilots to stop being morons and start to fly like they're clever and smart people. Again not empty quoting. Why is it outrageous to expect the freighter pilots to actually manage their risk? Nope instead, we'll change the mechanics. Stomp on non-gankers with negative sec status...all in the name of helping out players who won't even thank you for it. Chances are they'll just load up all that more stuff into their freighters and when a 30 billion freighter is ganked, the OP will be back here complaining that Goons are bad. How does my idea of the said criminal system i have been talking about prevents the freighters from being ganked any lesser or make it a lesser risk of getting ganked? Didn't i just talk about that the gankers is the only one that will get a harder time doing the gankings the more they do it? I have never said anything about making it more impossible to do ganking. All that's been said from me is that the gankers has to work much harder to be able to keep doing their crimes with the new system. That's all. But you are to stubborn to actually see this. So please go on with your trolling. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Dom Arkaral wrote: 27 pages XD tl;dr of the past 20 or so? one more nerf will fix ganking. Or balance it more. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:53:18 - [67] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: No, YOU as the ganker is the ones that has to work harder for keep doing the ganking as the consequences / penalties will rise the more you do it, because you are a criminal. The gankers already work hard in order to continue ganking because most of them have a sec status that attracts the attention of the faction police and opens them up to attack from anybody. Quote: The freighter pilots shouldn't do anything more than what he have to do now for doing his business. That's the point, most of them aren't doing anything at all beyond undocking and hitting autopilot. What you and the OP want to do is punish people who have to work hard to achieve their goals, and simultaneously reward those that do nothing but the absolute bare minimum required. No they don't. They just jump into a new ship and fit it up and does the same crime over and over. Such hard work right there, right? No, we want to let EVE punish the criminals who break the rules of high sec harder and harder the more crimes they do, like everyone would do. And read my edit about what the freighter pilots has to do as i edited it after you started to answer me on it. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 01:57:53 - [68] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: How does my idea of the said criminal system i have been talking about prevents the freighters from being ganked any lesser or make it a lesser risk of getting ganked? Really you need me to spell it out for you? Okay. Lots of gankers have -10 status. They'd have to, at a minimum stop ganking and go to NS to repair their status or use tags, which would be quite an ISK burden. So that would likely necessitate additional income. This would mean more time ratting or other ISK making opportunities or limiting freighter ganking to more economically viable ones. Either way....the overall effect is less ganking. Bottom line: make something more costly (in terms of ISK, time, or both) you tend to get less of it. No, a -10 pilot can easily jump into high sec in a Destroyer and then gank someone as long as he's smart to jump into a high sec system where he wont be tackled by anyone. And that's also another problem. An outlaw shouldn't be able to jump into high sec in anything bigger than a pod or a Shuttle. Yes, you can do whatever you would like to do in space in a pod or a shuttle or any other businesses in station while being -10, but allowing a -10 criminal player into high sec in a pvp fitted Destroyer is the same as allowing Osama Bin Laden to take a plane to USA and freely run around with his guns there, which are stupid. If you are a criminal, you should be treated as an actual criminal, which is the whole point. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:04:16 - [69] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: What pray tell can a -10 ganker gank in a single destroyer? And if 20 -10 outlaws jumps in at the same time in a Destroyer avoiding getting caught, then what? You still don't see the issue? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:09:49 - [70] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Your ignorance is showing. There is a whole logistics chain associated with suicide ganking, when they move into a new AO they ship in their tools by the hundreds, some poor sap has to fit and distribute them, someone bookmarks and distributes instawarps and safespots, they use scouts, they use warpin ships, they manipulate Concord spawn times while remaining within the rules etc etc. You only think it's easy because you can't see beyond the end of your nose. There are absolutely no ignorance on requesting a better criminal system that punishes the criminals harder and harder the more crimes they do each day. It's only you that have the ignorance of what a criminal is and how they should be treated. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: I read it, it's nonsense. You only say that because it makes your easy life of a ganker a bit harder. Teckos Pech wrote: Wait, you were complaining about 1 criminal. Now it is suddenly 10 or even 20. I don't expect you to get this, but the fact that it takes a sizeable number of people to gank a freighter is yet another constraint on ganking. And no, I don't see the issue, because I am not at all convinced that ganking is a big problem. Yeah, one dude / outlaw was just an example. Because if that gets applies to one outlaw, then every other outlaws will get affected by the same. So because of that, a bunch of gankers can't gank that easily anylonger after comitting crimes before (the same day). Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:17:03 - [71] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: There are absolutely no ignorance on requesting a criminal system that punishes the criminals harder and harder the more crimes they do. It's only you that have the ignorance of what a criminal is and how they should be treated. Your ignorance is in stating that "They just jump into a new ship and fit it up and does the same crime over and over." That is untrue, if you'd have actually read my post you will have seen why it is untrue. I'm well aware of what a criminal is, and I'm well aware of how the game already penalises them for being one. Hardly ignorant. Yes, they do, because once they start their ganking, they will already have a million ships ready in hangar ready to be used once you have lost one ship. So all you have to do is to wait 15 minutes before you undock your next ship, and that's it. It shouldn't be that easy for criminals. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:36:15 - [72] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Hpw did that ship get there? I'll give you a clue, they have a logistics chain which provides, fits and distributes them, that logistics chain and all the associated activities that ensure the gankers can hop into a prefitted ship and on undock warp to preprovided safespots is where 95% of the effort involved in ganking is. As I said, you can't see beyond the end of your nose. This is about what you do as a criminal. Delivering ships somewhere is something everyone does all day long, so i'm not sure on why you takes that into the picture here when we are talking about the criminal activities some players are doing? Not only that, but if you comes from Jita and then do the gankings, you will already have everything on market there. So no need for any logistics in that case. Daichi Yamato wrote: NightmareX wrote: Yes, they do, because once they start their ganking, they will already have a million ships ready in hangar ready to be used once you have lost one ship. So all you have to do is to wait 15 minutes before you undock your next ship, and that's it. It shouldn't be that easy for criminals. and all those ships have to be bought, hauled and fit. Not if you comes from Jita like now with the Burn Jita event, duuuh. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 02:55:42 - [73] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: You're claiming that ganking is too easy, when provided evidence as to what actually goes into organising a ganking operation, you dismiss it because it doesn't suit your agenda. As for ganking in Jita, for the most part they ship the stuff in themselves, they already have a logistics chain in place, they have no need to pay over-inflated Jita market prices. The current operation in Jita took months of planning and coordination to organise. Ganking is easy once you have the ships in your hangar which is the whole point. The point is that you as a criminal can commit crimes / ganking way to easy once you have undocked. And on top of that continue to do that times after times without any more consequences. Let's keep to the point instead of bringing in other things that hasn't anything to do with doing the actual crimes. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 03:21:53 - [74] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Yet again, you can't see past your own agenda. Well, there is one problem with that argument. You haven't explained ANYTHING on why i'm wrong in what i'm saying here. I know it's dead easy to gank someone with small ships like a Destroyer once you have a fitted Destroyer ready to undock with. Everyone knows this. And this is what it's all about. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: I am keeping to the point; what goes into organising a ganking operation has everything to do with your claim that ganking is too easy. No you don't, because doing logistics has nothing to do with the actual crimes of ganking. It's the consequences of ganking i'm talking about. Hauling ships somewhere has nothing to do with what a ganker does against someone. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: I get that the truth doesn't fit in with your agenda, fortunately you don't get to dictate the content of my posts. Well, you better start explaining your arguments to what i'm saying in the first place before you start to claim things like that towards me. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 04:35:24 - [75] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: But not all outlaws are going to fleet up with each other are they? You keep treating them as one monolithic group with the same set of goals with is totally daft and why everyone thinks your position is ridiculous. A crime is still a crime no matter who does it and no matter where you do it in high sec. If one guy easily can gank one small ship in his Destroyer, then it can be as easy to gang up together to gank something much bigger and do the same crime over and over without any more consequences. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:30:24 - [76] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: But not all outlaws are going to fleet up with each other are they? You keep treating them as one monolithic group with the same set of goals with is totally daft and why everyone thinks your position is ridiculous. A crime is still a crime no matter who does it and no matter where you do it in high sec. If one guy easily can gank one small ship in his Destroyer, then it can be as easy to gang up together to gank something much bigger and do the same crime over and over without any more consequences. Your non-answer is duly noted. You were claiming that 10 criminals jump into HS, and then fleet up. But it can't just be 10 random criminals can it. They might very well shoot each other as the freighter. It is your boneheaded assumptions that are the problem here. The point is still that they can go in together by ganking something juicy and still be able to do that without any more consequences other than having to wait 15 mins. It's that what we are talking about. And that 15 minute timer is the problem. It's way to short when you start to gank more and more. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:35:14 - [77] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: No. They won't thought. Take 10 random -10's and it is not clear at all they'll fleet up. They might, but the chances are it won't happen. If 10 -10's who are part of the same group show up, they will likely fleet up. But that is an entirely different issue. There is no evidence that ganking is endemic, let alone an epidemic. You still get my point, even though you wont admit it that is way to easy to just keep ganking times after times. And my idea has to go towards each single players anyways. If you do a crime alone or if you do it with 120 others, it doesn't matter. You should get pusnished harder and harder the more ganks or crimes you do. That's all that matters. Yes, what you do and what the consequences should be from that is what i'm talking about and nothing more. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 717	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:42:30 - [78] - Quote Faylee Freir wrote: Hi Nightmarex. I noticed you ignored my question so I will ask it again. Have you ever ganked before? I assume you've done lots of freighter ganking and know the ins and outs of the mechanics and such. Can you please indulge us on your personal experience with ganking? I have been playing EVE since early 2004, so i'm pretty sure i know most mechanics in EVE. And to answer your question. Yes, i have been ganking stuffs (not telling you what i have been ganking though) sometimes since i started to play EVE. But the mechanics behind ganking is super easy to understand anyways, so you don't have to be a rocket scientists to understand the whole picture of it. It's not hard to understand that a criminal should face harder and harder penalties the more crimes they do in empire, like it has been for every types of criminals where there are police to bust the criminals in real life forever. Nat Silverguard wrote: unless you provide any evidence that the rate of ganked freighter compared to the freighters that travels to the jita pipe line and are on auto pilots are high, 15 mins are infact short and needs to be further reduced, i say to 2 mins for balance. Not sure if i should laugh or cry to that. That post clearly shows that you absolutely have no idea what you are talking about. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 718	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:53:46 - [79] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: No. They won't thought. Take 10 random -10's and it is not clear at all they'll fleet up. They might, but the chances are it won't happen. If 10 -10's who are part of the same group show up, they will likely fleet up. But that is an entirely different issue. There is no evidence that ganking is endemic, let alone an epidemic. You still get my point, even though you wont admit it that is way to easy to just keep ganking times after times when you have the ships ready in station. And my idea has to go towards each single players anyways. If you do a crime alone or if you do it with 120 others, it doesn't matter. You should get pusnished harder and harder for each players who commit crimes the more ganks or crimes you / they do. That's all that matters. Yes, what you do and what the consequences should be from that is what i'm talking about and nothing more. Easy? No, I don't agree because alot of work goes into ganking. There is a reason why Goons, et. al.decided to do another Burn Jita event weeks ago. They needed that time to pre-position assets to make Burn Jita feasible. Weeks. You keep saying, "It is easy." And then offer a stupid "They just re-ship." Just so story. Well how did those ships get there? How did the modules and ammo get there? What about comms, FCs, scouts, bumpers, etc. I'd call you a liar, but I think you are just simply totally clueless. Again, logistics has nothing to do with what you do with the ships AFTER you have got them. How hard is this to understand? I'm talking about the consequences you should face AFTER you have committed a crime / gank with your ships. Yes, once you have started your ganking event or something, you will already have a butt load of them ready in station that you just just jump into and undock to gank another victim without any more consequences than the 15 minute Concord timer. This is not hard to understand and you have to be incredible stupid to not understand that doing crimes out in space has nothing to do with the logistics behind getting a ship to a station. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:57:39 - [80] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: According to zkillboard NightmareX has killed 4 freighters and 1 jump freighter. Two of the freighters we killed in LS and 2 in HS, the two HS kills appear to be war decs. And the JF kill was clearly a HS war dec. So, pretty much no ganking experience at all. None. Now that that is settled.... Have you heard about having alts? Again, i'm not gonna explain you anything when you can't even explain what a criminal is and how they are supposed to be treated to me. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 06:59:01 - [81] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Dummy you can't gank anyone if you don't have a ship to gank with....duurrrrr Didn't i say once you have a ship in station, then it's super easy to continue doing ganks? Where do you get it from that i'm talking about doing something without a ship? Need glasses or something so you can read what i'm writing to you, or? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:01:33 - [82] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: You are aware that in the real world, which you keep referencing, that the act of knowingly helping criminals with support or equipment is a crime. Yes, but there is no way for Concord to find out that a Freighter pilot is going to deliver ships to a bunch of criminals. In real life you can figure that more easy out, because of investigators who will find things like this out. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:03:51 - [83] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Well, post your ganking alts then so we can see. You keep asking for proof, now here is your chance to lead by example. Like i said earlier to you, i asked first. Deliver your proof of what a criminal is and how they are supposed to be treated. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:05:38 - [84] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: But how did the ship get in station? Magic? No! Somebody had to go buy the ships, modules and ammo, move them to the staging system, most likely assemble them and fit them and then put them on contracts, possibly hundreds of them. Possibly hours of work...but you want to ignore all that because it does not fit with your narrative. There is a word for that. That word is: dishonest. Like i said, no one cares about how it got into the station. We only cares about how it gets out of the station and what you do with it out in space. There is a difference from getting something into a station to what you do with a ship after undocking it. Logic doesn't seems to be your strong points here, that's for sure. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:10:15 - [85] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Dummy you can't gank anyone if you don't have a ship to gank with....duurrrrr Didn't i say once you have a ship in station, then it's super easy to continue doing ganks? Where do you get it from that i'm talking about doing something without a ship? Need glasses or something so you can read what i'm writing to you, or? so what happens if the gankers don't have ships to use? suddenly your '15 min criminal timer' is not too long and irrelevant anymore, yes? Tell me what gankers that doesn't already have a billion ships ready before they start ganking peoples? Because time is money for them and they doesn't have the time to sit there and re-fit a new ship everytime they lose a ship to Concord. So they will already have enough ships ready in station to be able to do ganking for weeks. But again, this is not what the issue is about anyways, it's about what kind of consequences every criminals in EVE should face for doing crimes times after times independent of how many of few ships they have and independent of how much or little isk they have and independent of who they are and where they are. Once they commit a crime, then something will happen to the criminals that isn't harsh enough, specially if they just keep doing it. That's what this is all about, so stop making lame excuses. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:14:44 - [86] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: But how did the ship get in station? Magic? No! Somebody had to go buy the ships, modules and ammo, move them to the staging system, most likely assemble them and fit them and then put them on contracts, possibly hundreds of them. Possibly hours of work...but you want to ignore all that because it does not fit with your narrative. There is a word for that. That word is: dishonest. Like i said, no one cares about how it got into the station. We only cares about how it gets out of the station and what you do with it out in space. There is a difference from getting something into a station to what you do with a ship after undocking it. Logic doesn't seems to be your strong points here, that's for sure. But that is a just simply a lie...which makes you a liar. A ganker cannot simply reship if somebody did not spend the hours to get those ships to that station/citadel for the ganker to reship into. One must precede the other. You keep wanting to skip this part, but I and others will keep bringing it up so that everyone can see how dishonest you are. Keep to the point of what kind of consequences a criminal should face once they commit a crime or just leave this topic with your lame trolling. It doesn't help what kind of excuses you use when the whole point is that when the criminals DOES have a ship in station and then undocks and the ganks someone that is what this is all about. Not anything before that. Only what the criminal player does after they have undocked a ship no matter how rarely they would be able to get a ship or not. If they can get 1 million Destroyers into the station or if they only can do one gank before they are out of ships doesn't matter as it's the act of criminal acts after you have undocked a ship that is what i'm talking about. Keep to that or simply just stop making troll posts. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:21:37 - [87] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX Define Criminal. Maybe you should do it as you seems to think you know this better than me, so teach me. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:24:13 - [88] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: But again, this is not what the issue is about anyways, it's about what kind of consequences every criminals in EVE should face for doing crimes times after times independent of how many of few ships they have and independent of how much or little isk they have and independent of who they are and where they are. Once they commit a crime, then something will happen to the criminals that isn't harsh enough, specially if they just keep doing it. That's what this is all about, so stop making lame excuses. so again, for the nth time, what are those consequences and it's veracity to warrant this change. You don't get any more consequences or penalty other than the 15 minute Concord timer for doing ganks in high sec which i have said a million times that is the problem. It's simple to just jump into a new ship and keep doing the ganks without ANY more consequences than just the 15 minute Concord timer. Because of that, there should be a criminal system in EVE that punishes the criminals / gankers harder and harder the more crimes they do, which is a normal thing to do against criminals in the first place. What's so hard about this to understand? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:25:19 - [89] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX Define Criminal. Maybe you should do it as you seems to think you know this better than me, so teach me. Taking your tack. I asked first, and I have a sneaking suspicion that your definition is not the same as the one we're using. How do you define criminal? Ok, so you are basicly saying i know this better than you and have to explain this to you and teach you how this works? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:34:51 - [90] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX Define Criminal. Maybe you should do it as you seems to think you know this better than me, so teach me. Taking your tack. I asked first, and I have a sneaking suspicion that your definition is not the same as the one we're using. How do you define criminal? Ok, so you are basicly saying i know this better than you and have to explain this to you and teach you how this works? No, I'm asking you how you define criminal. I already know what a criminal in Eve is. It's a simple request, stop deflecting and answer the question. A criminal is someone who commit an act that is breaking the law. And by breaking the law, you should be punished harder and harder the more you breaks the law. This is a normal practice against criminals this way. When you look at what a criminal in real life is............ In ordinary language, a crime is an unlawful act punishable by a state or other authority. The term "crime" does not, in modern criminal law, have any simple and universally accepted definition, though statutory definitions have been provided for certain purposes. The most popular view is that crime is a category created by law; in other words, something is a crime if declared as such by the relevant and applicable law. One proposed definition is that a crime or offence (or criminal offence) is an act harmful not only to some individual or individuals but also to a community, society or the state ("a public wrong"). Such acts are forbidden and punishable by law. The notion that acts such as murder, ** and theft are to be prohibited exists worldwide. What precisely is a criminal offence is defined by criminal law of each country. While many have a catalogue of crimes called the criminal code, in some common law countries no such comprehensive statute exists. The state (government) has the power to severely restrict one's liberty for committing a crime. In modern societies, there are procedures to which investigations and trials must adhere. If found guilty, an offender may be sentenced to a form of reparation such as a community sentence, or, depending on the nature of their offence, to undergo imprisonment, life imprisonment or, in some jurisdictions, execution. Usually, to be classified as a crime, the "act of doing something criminal" (actus reus) must GÇô with certain exceptions GÇô be accompanied by the "intention to do something criminal" (mens rea). While every crime violates the law, not every violation of the law counts as a crime. Breaches of private law (torts and breaches of contract) are not automatically punished by the state, but can be enforced through civil procedure. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:** 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:52:15 - [91] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Yep as I thought, you're using the real life definition of criminal, as copied verbatim from wikipedia. We're using the ingame mechanics definition, which is somebody who has a criminal flag. Context is everything, and in the context of Eve your definition is wrong. The question is, why shouldn't we use real life arguments for what a crimninal is in EVE when EVE is all about human characters anyways? We live in a human world after all. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:56:17 - [92] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: The point is that a suicide ganker cannot reship if somebody did not pre-position those ships, fit them, and then put them on contract. That you want to ignore this is because it does not fit with your narrative....which makes you dishonest in the extreme. Again, you are making no sense at all. If you want to talk, then please come back when you can talk about what the issue is with the act of doing crimes. Don't expect me to take you any serious from now on if you can't HTFU and discuss the actual issue. I will ignore you lame trolling from now on. Have a nice day. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 07:59:34 - [93] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: because your answer is revolving around what you FEEL and NO concrete evidence to support that the change is needed. read your reply again, your 1st sentence on your 1st paragraph just mentioned that you feel 15 min is not enough and therefore a problem, why? after that, no explanation whatsoever, why the fck is 15 min not enough? then you start your 2nd paragraph with, 'because of that..' as if you said any to explained anything. then you again mentioned that criminals/gankers should be punished harder and harder the more crimes they do, again, why? what i find funny about your statement there is you implied that we are just simple criminals and forget how POWERFUL capsuleers we are. lol Again, as you have ignored all of my points i have been telling earlier, then i'm also gonna ignore you for not reading those points from now on. I have given many good points on why a criminal in EVE should be treated as a criminal like in real life as we are playing a game that is all about humans after all. So it's not just about what i feel, but about what a criminal actually is and how they should be treated. And this is what you can't even explain why it shouldn't be like that in EVE. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:02:38 - [94] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: The question is, why shouldn't we use real life arguments..... Because it is a farking video game you doorknob. Like i said earlier, lame excuse for what the real issue is. Just because it's a game, doesn't mean you can just keep ganking other like no tomorrow without more consequences for keep doing it. It's a game that has to be fun for everyone to play and not just for the gankers. And like i also said earlier that you seems to have ignored completely is that no freighter polits is having fun playing EVE knowing that the gankers can just keep ganking forever without facing any harder consequences for doing their crimes more and more. That's the issue to. Nat Silverguard wrote: dude, stop with the real life comparison. in game we are not humans, we are capsuleers, get that through your skull. Read over what i said to Teckos. So please stop with the lame excuses. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:09:51 - [95] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Because it is a farking video game you doorknob. In this video game we play immortals...people who cannot die. Kill my current meat puppet and my consciousness will fly across light years to a new meat puppet that will house my consciousness...I will then step into a new ship and continue on my merry way. I cannot be permanently killed. I can only be sent to a far off destination, at best. I no longer identify with the dirt dwellers crawling along the surface of various planets. I have moved beyond them. As such your notions of justice and law do not hold for me and my kind. That is the lore of this game. That you keep trying to shoe-horn everything into today's mores and norms just makes you look like a fool. Especially for a player since 2004. Are you sure you didn't buy that character? Still doesn't help that it's a video game when everything in EVE is about humans flying spaceships. As long it's normal humans, then we should treat crininals like humans in real life. Yes, it's a game, but you still haven't explained why this system i have made an idea of should't be in EVE to begin with. Oh noes it's a game and they can't improve it you say? Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Yep as I thought, you're using the real life definition of criminal, as copied verbatim from wikipedia. We're using the ingame mechanics definition, which is somebody who has a criminal flag. Context is everything, and in the context of Eve your definition is wrong. The question is, why shouldn't we use real life arguments for what a crimninal is in EVE when EVE is all about human characters anyways? We live in a human world after all. We live in a human world, our characters live in another universe. Reality and fantasy, know the difference. You still haven't explained why a criminal shouldn't be treated as a crininal, even though it's just a game. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:16:23 - [96] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Like i said earlier, lame excuse for what the real issue is. Just because it's a game, doesn't mean you can just keep ganking other like no tomorrow without more consequences for keep doing it. why? if the game is about villainy, why should i not be a villain? because you said so? then, ..\|.. good day. The game is all about balance towards everyone. One side here is having a very low balance atm that should be fixed. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:21:51 - [97] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Like i said earlier, lame excuse for what the real issue is. Just because it's a game, doesn't mean you can just keep ganking other like no tomorrow without more consequences for keep doing it. why? if the game is about villainy, why should i not be a villain? because you said so? then, ..\|.. good day. The game is all about balance towards everyone. One side here is having a very low balance vs risks atm that should be fixed. it is balanced, and nothing you say, unless with proof, can convince me otherwise. Good for you. But ask any freighter pilots who gets ganked on how they feel about the gankers consequences if those risk vs reward mechanics this way are fair or bad. You know pretty well what they will tell you. But you wont admit it because you are a massive ganker ingame yourself and don't want to get harder time ganking the more you do it. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:24:28 - [98] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Dude, it is still a make believe world. We are, by RL standards, all monsters. Applying RL mores and norms we should all be rounded up and spaced ASAP. Funny how you resort to RL when it suits you and abandon it when it doesn...almost like you are dishonest. You should still get harsher penalties for breaking the laws in high sec. Oh wait, the police (Concord) is more intrested in eating donuts over being more focused over the law and punish the criminals harder the more crimes they do. Again, why shouldn't criminals be punished harder the more crimes they do? You can spin it as much as you like, but when you can't explain what i'm asking for, then just give up as you wont win an argument over me then. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:28:35 - [99] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Maybe the freighter pilot should not have taken on so much risk.... Now, remember that there is a line between taking a risk to having a huge change of dying to gankers because of how the current poor criminal system is working. You don't seems to graps this. But oh well, you are Teckos after all, so no suprises there. Nat Silverguard wrote: well, ask our frieghter pilots instead on why they're not ganked even once? Because he's lucky to not get caught by the gankers? Once a ganker have got eyes on him, it's game over for him after he have left the docking range of a station. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:52:46 - [100] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: If you want harsher penalties, CCP has already given you the tools to inflict them I'm not supposed to be the police penalizing the crininals harsher the more crimes they do. That's the Concord's job of doing, because a police is supposed to be a police and not a lazy donut eater. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Wrong. Concord has two jobs, one is to maintain a state of peace between the empires, the other is to punish people who have a criminal flag. So just because that's how Concord works today, no one can ever improve on the criminal system in EVE, just because 'it's a game' and because 'OMG it's a change so it must be horrible', right? Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Because that isn't Concords job, that's the job of the Faction Police and us, the vast majority of people can't be arsed to do it. Ehm, the faction police only gets involved towards your security status and not from what kind of crimes you do at one moment. Then it's the Concord's job of taking care of the criminals. But as Concord seems to be lazy and late on handling the criminals, then need somekinf of a buff so the criminals will get it harder to do more and more crimes. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Wat?Gäó Ok, thank you very much for your well explained empty argument . Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 08:57:59 - [101] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: well, ask our frieghter pilots instead on why they're not ganked even once? Because he's lucky to not get caught by the gankers? Once a ganker have got eyes on him, it's game over for him after he have left the docking range of a station. nah, because they're smart. they've been freighting for years dude, that's all they do mostly, and everybody knows about them. Oh, so now suddenly the freighter pilots is smart. Didn't you guys say earlier that most freighter pilots was just stupid and is getting ganked because of it? Make up your mind please. So if the freighter pilots are smart after all and are still dying to gankers, then what? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:02:25 - [102] - Quote Dolorous Tremmens wrote: well trolled sir Thanks for confirming they are all trolls. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:05:22 - [103] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: wrong. what was said was, greedy and lazy freigthers are the ones that are ganked the most and cry the most. smart freighters are fine with the current system and find it balanced. Can you prove that only dumb freigher pilots have been ganked though? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:14:01 - [104] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: In short, you're lazy and want NPC's to do it for you. Because they can arrive at the scene almost instantly while we as normal players can't. Don't you see the issue here on why Concord is the one that needs to be buffed when it's about this? Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Improvement is subjective, in your opinion your idea is an improvement, in mine, and apparently that of others, it's not. My idea will balance / improve the game towards everyone in EVE and not just one side of the game. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Concord's job is to deal with people that have a criminal timer, they do that admirably. The job of the Faction Police is to make life difficult for those that while having a low security status don't have a criminal timer. That is the distinction that you're failing to see. No, Concord's job is to deal with those who commit a criminal act in space AND to deal with anyone with a Concord timer. LEARN2EVE bro. And the faction police's job is to act towards players with bad security status and nothing more. They simply don't care about what you do in high sec as long as your security status is ok. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: That part of your post made no sense, it deserved the reply it got. You posted a picture that had nothing to do with what i told you. So again, nice emptyy argument against what i said. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Deal with it. Or maybe you should deal with it that peoples should be able to come up with ideas on how to improve Concord / the gameplay for everyone without you using lame arguments of 'IT'S JUST A GAME' and 'THAT'S NOT HOW EVE IS'? Just because it's a game and that's not how EVE currently is, doesn't mean things can't be improved or changed for the better. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:17:49 - [105] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: wrong. what was said was, greedy and lazy freigthers are the ones that are ganked the most and cry the most. smart freighters are fine with the current system and find it balanced. Can you prove that only dumb freigher pilots have been ganked though? check the killboard! almost all of the freighters & jfs that died are carrying isk they shouldn't have, now tell me it's not the dumbest thing to do? your turn, show me a proof that the 15min criminal timer is too long and therefore problematic? pls spare me your assumptions and gutfeels ok? i want solid proof. You can't tell if a freighter pilot is dumb or smart by looking at the killboard. Just because he is doing his job of transporting things for himself, someone / others, doesn't mean he's dumb or anything for not having a billion alts or friends who can scout 20 systems ahead to make sure he can travel without any issues. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:39:50 - [106] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: So why do they need buffing? Because they aren't harsh enough when you still keep ganking / committing crimes over and over again without any other consequences other than just a fast 15 minute Concord timer. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: That's your opinion, which is subjective. My opinion here stands towards players who are NOT gankers. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: They already do this, if you commit a criminal act in space you gain a criminal timer, which is what triggers a Concord response. If you undock in anything other than a pod while the timer is running they respond again. Learn how the current mechanics work before taking other people to task for criticising your asinine ideas to improve them. 15 minutes of Concord timer is not enough of a punishment for gankers. Again, the Concord timer should increase the more you do the ganking each days. That's what you don't have the capacity to understand. So yes, a buff to the Concord timer for each crininal act you do should be fine. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Where have I said otherwise? You started to talk about the faction police when i was talking about things where Concord only are involved. What do you expect me to say to that then? Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Nobody said otherwise, however when you present an idea you must be be prepared for others to disagree on whether or not it's actually an improvement. You appear to have difficulties with this concept. It's an improvement because then all gank victims can feel that the criminals is actually treated as criminals even though they get ganked. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:41:15 - [107] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: You can't tell if a freighter pilot is dumb or smart by looking at the killboard. Actually, you can. Triple cargo expanders is a good sign of being dumb, triple bulkheads is a good sign of being smart; and then there's the cargo, and its value. So what you are saying is that a freighter can't fit up the freighter as a freighter, but rather as a speed boat instead? OK. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:48:14 - [108] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: You can't tell if a freighter pilot is dumb or smart by looking at the killboard. Actually, you can. Triple cargo expanders is a good sign of being dumb, triple bulkheads is a good sign of being smart; and then there's the cargo, and its value. So what you are saying is that a freighter can't fit up the freighter as a freighter, but rather as a speed boat instead? OK. speed boat? since when bulkheads make your JF fast? It makes you enter warp faster (aka speed mods) over actually using the freighter as a freighter. So i'm not sure, but you don't seems to be smart by suggesting that a freighter can't use the intended modules for a freighter before they can be smart? Again, OK. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:54:38 - [109] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Wow....how long have you been playing. A freighter will never enter warp "fast". I don't care how you fit it. It will always be a slow and cumbersome ship. As such, you should tank it with bulkheads. You don't have to be the fastest you just have to be less desirable than the dummy next to your. If he has as much cargo and anti-tanks his freighter you will have a good chance of getting through while he won't. Cripes...why am I explaining this? Was there something in the word 'FASTER' that was hard for you to understand? Being fast and being faster is not the same thing. Just saying. And i have told you earlier on how long time i have been playing, but you seems to have memory issues remembering what i'm saying to you, so i'm gonna bother telling you the same thing over and over again. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 09:58:36 - [110] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Your ignorance is showing again, reinforced bulkheads make the ship slower to enter warp, they reduce agility which increases align times. Whatever dude. You knows pretty well what i'm talking about. A freighter is about moving stuffs and not to lessen it's cargo spaces. They are supposed to have ton of cargo spaces to move things. Which is their whole point. Not only that, but if every freighters starts to use reinforced bulkheads, then it wont matter as the gankers will just bring more gankers to make sure they die anyways. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:02:32 - [111] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: ]Your ignorance is showing again, reinforced bulkheads make the ship slower to enter warp, they reduce agility which increases align times. Whatever dude. You knows pretty well what i'm talking about. A freighter is about moving stuffs and not to lessen it's cargo spaces. They are supposed to have ton of cargo spaces to move things. Which is their whole point. Not only that, but if every freighters starts to use reinforced bulkheads, then it wont matter as the gankers will just bring more gankers to make sure they die anyways. Are you utterly incapable of admitting that you're wrong? Did you answer me on the fact that the gankers will just bring even more gankers to gank a freighter if they see that it has reinforced bulkheads? So you can some with whatever lame excuse you want, but some reinforced bulkheads wont save anyone in a freighter from being ganked if the gankers uses their brains. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:03:29 - [112] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: NightmareX wrote: Not only that, but if every freighters starts to use reinforced bulkheads, then it wont matter as the gankers will just bring more gankers to make sure they die anyways. doesn't that mean they lose more ships? isn't that adding to the consequence of ganking you? wasn't that the point? or is the point really that you want to make ganking so difficult you don't have to deal with it? Doesn't matter as they will still make profits out of it and still be able to do their crimes without any more consequences to their actions. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:07:28 - [113] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: NightmareX wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Wow....how long have you been playing. A freighter will never enter warp "fast". I don't care how you fit it. It will always be a slow and cumbersome ship. As such, you should tank it with bulkheads. You don't have to be the fastest you just have to be less desirable than the dummy next to your. If he has as much cargo and anti-tanks his freighter you will have a good chance of getting through while he won't. Cripes...why am I explaining this? Was there something in the word 'FASTER' that was hard for you to understand? Being fast and being faster is not the same thing. Just saying. And i have told you earlier on how long time i have been playing, but you seems to have memory issues remembering what i'm saying to you, so i'm gonna bother telling you the same thing over and over again. No freighter goes into warp "fast enough" to avoid being bumped if you are over-stuffed and the only guy on field, unless you have a scout who has webs. But then you maintain using webs is not good game design so we can toss that. So you anti-tank your ship to enter warp faster and all you do is make it easier to gank. Good job. The question is still, why do we have to be in need of others to web a freighter to be able to do the job of transporting things from one system to another in a relatively safe way? Yes, that should give you some slightly benefits, but it shouldn't be a requirement for using a freighter without getting ganked over and over again by criminals who can just freely keep doing their ganks without any more consequences. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:11:51 - [114] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: No need to answer because it's a hypothetical that will never happen, greed and laziness being an all to common trait amongst people who do stupid stuff with freighters. You don't want to answer it because it makes your gameplay of ganking others a bit harder the more you do it. OMG changes are bad, right? And the fact that you use the lame excuse of 'dumb freighter pilots' all the times says me that you are using that argument to make it looks like you all are doing the right things, just because of dumb freighter pilots. You don't even have evidences to show that they infact are dumb to begin with. You just use it because you can. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:24:15 - [115] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Get this through your thick skull. I DON'T GANK And what makes you think that ANYONE would believe that lie? Jonah Gravenstein wrote: What else do you call people who put multibillions in their ships and then fly them into a known killing field without any support, or in some cases without even being at the computer? It haven't gone through your head that the freighter pilots is just doing their job of transposring alot of things that can be worth alot of isk? Just because they transports alot of worthy things (that is their job) doesn't mean the gankers can just keep ganking other times after times without facing harder consequences the more criminal acts they do. Yes, the freighter pilots will still lose freighters like now. The only differences is that the gankers will have a harder time doing the ganks as easily the more they do it. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: That they die because they do stupid things with the freighter is self evident. Again, that's just a lame excuse you use because you can. You have no evidences or facts to support that claim on AT ALL. I know about many smart freighter pilots who still get ganked. Because the ganking mechanics in EVE is way to easy to do while at the same time having way to little consequences. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:26:31 - [116] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: No need to answer because it's a hypothetical that will never happen, greed and laziness being an all to common trait amongst people who do stupid stuff with freighters. You don't want to answer it because it makes your gameplay of ganking others a bit harder the more you do it. OMG changes are bad, right? And the fact that you use the lame excuse of 'dumb freighter pilots' all the times says me that you are using that argument to make it looks like you all are doing the right things, just because of dumb freighter pilots. You don't even have evidences to show that they infact are dumb to begin with. You just use it because you can. any JF fitted with istab, sheild power relay, CPU upgrades, power diagnostics, reactor control and of course exp cargohold and carries more than 6B isks are s2pid people therefore needed to be taught a lesson and die, period. So the freighter pilots is just stupid for doing their job of transporting alot of stuffs which a freighter is made for in the first place? OK . Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:33:59 - [117] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: NightmareX wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: No need to answer because it's a hypothetical that will never happen, greed and laziness being an all to common trait amongst people who do stupid stuff with freighters. You don't want to answer it because it makes your gameplay of ganking others a bit harder the more you do it. OMG changes are bad, right? And the fact that you use the lame excuse of 'dumb freighter pilots' all the times says me that you are using that argument to make it looks like you all are doing the right things, just because of dumb freighter pilots. You don't even have evidences to show that they infact are dumb to begin with. You just use it because you can. any JF fitted with istab, sheild power relay, CPU upgrades, power diagnostics, reactor control and of course exp cargohold and carries more than 6B isks are s2pid people therefore needed to be taught a lesson and die, period. So the freighter pilots is just stupid for doing their job of transporting alot of stuffs which a freighter is made for in the first place? OK . Last I checked, even a fully-tanked freighter can haul more stuff than any other ship in the game, so it doesn't stop you from doing the intended job. Still, you are still downgrading the freighter for what it's main purpose is for that. And that's just stupid. Do you see we in MC fit our Machariels for only agility and speed just because we have to go through Uedama to be able to get to a low sec system we are going to have a fight in just to be on the safe side of not getting ganked? Ofc not, because a Machariel is a PVP ship and should be fitted like a PVP ship when you are going to enter a fight. Same appies to the freighters. They will fit their ships for what the intention for the ship is. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:35:45 - [118] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: you forgot the word, 'safely'. anyway, you can't transport goods when you fit bulkheads in your JF? That's not the point . Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 721	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:44:53 - [119] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: 'taint no lie, we've already been over this. You'd better have some evidence that I'm a liar the next time you accuse me of being one. It's a lie until you can prove that you are NOT a ganker. The way you posts here is a big indication that you are in fact a massive ganker. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: If they were doing their job properly they'd have mitigated their risks by using an appropriately fitted ship, limiting their cargo value and having some support available. Then they are not doing their job of flying a freighter if they can't do their job of transposting alot of things that the freighter are made to do in the first place. I mean, hello, wake up dude. You are making no sense at all with your excuses. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: More nonsense that promotes NPC's taking on tasks that should be done by other players. It's not nonsense at all, because it will balance the game towards gankers and it will balance the game towards the freighter pilots or whoever that is a potential gank target to know that the criminals get treated as crinminals and get punished harder the more crimes they do. It's good for the game to have a criminal system like this, because a criminal is still a criminal who are supposed to be punished hader the more crimes they do. Or how do you think criminals should be treated? Jonah Gravenstein wrote: How do you explain all the morons that enter Jita in freighters during a well publicised event all about killing ships and disrupting trade in Jita? Is this about what the freighter pilots do, or are we talking about what consequences the gankers should get / face for keep doing crimes independent of what the freighter pilots do or independent of what system they jump into? We are talking about how criminals should be punished ONCE they commit a crime and nothing else. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 723	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:49:13 - [120] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Still, you are still downgrading the freighter for what it's main purpose is for that. And that's just stupid. Do you see we in MC fit our Machariels for only agility and speed just because we have to go through Uedama to be able to get to a low sec system we are going to have a fight in just to be on the safe side of not getting ganked in Uedama? Ofc not, because a Machariel is a PVP ship and should be fitted like a PVP ship when you are going to enter a fight. Same appies to the freighters. They will fit their ships for what the intention for the ship is, aka transporting alot of things. Even the haulers need to be prepaired for PVP. Don't fly what you cannot afford to lose and all that. It's all part of how Eve works. There are risks and there are rewards. You are supposed to balance those. If you undock in a freighter that is fitted with max cargo and filled to the brim, you take a huge risk, but your rewards are also larger. If you are willing to risk it, you should be prepaired to face the consequences of that action. Not cry for CCP to change the mechanics when you lose the ship in a ball of fire. CCP gives you the tools to manage your risk/reward ratio, but you throw those tools out of the window and then cry to CCP saying you don't have any tools to work with. There's a difference on what you CAN do and what you SHOULD do. Yeah, they have to prepeare their freighter for PVP if they intentionally are going through low sec or 0.0 space. That's logic. But we are still talking about freighters in high sec that should be able to do their business with the right ship intended for their job with the right setup intended for the job relatively safely in high sec without having to get ganked every 15 minutes by criminals who doesn't get any more consequences the more they gank. That's not fair for those who endlessly gets ganked. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 723	Posted - 2017.02.27 10:55:59 - [121] - Quote Dom Arkaral wrote: Apparently I need to reply in order to stop getting notifications XD Or you could go back to your earlier posts here and edit them where you just unticks 'Receive notifications for this topic'. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 723	Posted - 2017.02.27 11:14:26 - [122] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Even the haulers need to be prepaired for PVP. Don't fly what you cannot afford to lose and all that. It's all part of how Eve works. There are risks and there are rewards. You are supposed to balance those. If you undock in a freighter that is fitted with max cargo and filled to the brim, you take a huge risk, but your rewards are also larger. If you are willing to risk it, you should be prepaired to face the consequences of that action. Not cry for CCP to change the mechanics when you lose the ship in a ball of fire. CCP gives you the tools to manage your risk/reward ratio, but you throw those tools out of the window and then cry to CCP saying you don't have any tools to work with. There's a difference on what you CAN do and what you SHOULD do. Prepearing for PVP is not the same as having to prepeare to get ganked all day long by gankers who will kill you anyways. Doesn't matter how much you try to PVP fit a freighter as the gankers will just bring enough ships to kill you anyways once they have scanned your ship where they see your fittings. The tools CCP have now to manage the risk vs reward specially when it comes to preventing getting ganked all day long without getting penalized more for continuing to do the crimes is way to bad and needs to be updated. Wander Prian wrote: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=491023&find=unread "Be able to afford a loss * Never fly something (or with something in the cargo) you can't afford to lose. Yes, not even in highsec. Meaning that you should not fly a ship you cannot afford to replace and refit. Consent to PvP * You consent to PvP when you click "undock". * You are not safe in 1.0 security space. CONCORD is there to punish, not to protect. Get used to the idea. * In most cases, the only way to be 100% safe from aggression inside the game is to be docked in a station. Being cloaked in a secret safespot could work too. " You are supposed to be prepaired for PVP when you undock, no matter what the security status of the system is. Again, this is ONLY about what consequences the gankers should get AFTER they have commited a crime and nothing else. This has nothing to do with what they can afford to fly or not. It has nothing to do what they transport or where they transport. It's all about what kind of punishment criminals should get AFTER they commit a crime against players in high sec that is supposed to be relatively safe. Again, i'm saying this again as it seems that you can't get this into your heads that what a criminal does and what punishments they should get has nothing to do with that they transpost or how they fit their freighters and all of that. It has ONLY to do with what needs to happen to a ganker once they commit a crime in high sec. Get it now? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 723	Posted - 2017.02.27 11:30:36 - [123] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: We've been over this too. It is impossible to prove either way, although the overwhelming lack of evidence to the contrary suggests that I what I say is true. Unlike you, my posts suggest that I actually understand the mechanics in play, and how to use them to my advantage while hauling. No we haven't. You have only claimed you are not a ganker without showing evidences while i clearly can see that you are a ganker by the way you posts here. Care to prove it or not? Not only that, but i know pretty much every mechanics in this game as i have been playing this game long enough to fully understand them pretty well. And i do know the punishment system in EVe against gankers / criminals is not where it should be. It should be harsher and harsher against a criminal the more crimes / ganking they do, which again is a normal way of handling criminals. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Read what I actually wrote, and not what you think I wrote. I wrote that the freighters are supposed to be freighters and not pvp fitted ships all the time, because they aren't doing their job effectively or professinal towards their customers if they do that. And then you / others claims that the frighter pilots are stupid for fitting their freighters for actual freighter work, or they being stupid for not fitting mods on a ship that the ship doesn't have to use in the first place to be able to do it's job. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: In your opinon Says the guy who can't even answer my question. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: You stated that I had no evidence that people die because they do stupid things with freighters. I provided you with a glaring, and current, example of people dying because they do stupid things with freighters. That's about as on topic as you can get. Your reply on the other hand... Yes, you don't have any evidences that freighter pilots are stupid based out of their setups. Because you / others in here are claiming the freighter pilots are stupid for fitting their freighters like freighters like they should do to be able to do their job effectively and do it professinally towards their customers. You said every freighter pilots are stupid for not overtanking their freighters with a tank and overfit their freighters with speed mods which the freighters are not made to be used with in the first place. So my reply are spot on and that's why i'm asking you why they are stupid for doing their only job and for fitting their ship for their intended usage. Again, do you Titans fitted with only speed mods as that might save them from being killed so they can just move faster out of the bubbles? No you don't, because the Titans are not made to be able to get out fast from a fight once they have commited to enter the fight. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: No, that's what you're talking about, fortunately you don't get to dictate the way the conversation goes, however much you'd like to. That's what i have been talking about since i started to write in here. And you are doing all you can to twist on those things i hade mentioned about, because you know with a system like i have an idea on, will make the ganking life a bit harder for you (but still doable if you are fast and good enough to outsmart Concord / Faction Police). And you don't like changes or balance in this game, so who would guess that gankers would like a change like this? I mean, wow. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 723	Posted - 2017.02.27 11:31:38 - [124] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: We all get what you are saying and just don't agree with you. That's all fine, but it would be nice of you if you could explain why a system like this wouldn't make it better for everyone in the long run? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 723	Posted - 2017.02.27 11:41:11 - [125] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: NightmareX wrote: Again, this is ONLY about what consequences the gankers should get AFTER they have commited a crime and nothing else. This has nothing to do with what they can afford to fly or not. It has nothing to do what they transport or where they transport. It's all about what kind of punishment criminals should get AFTER they commit a crime against players in high sec that is supposed to be relatively safe. Again, i'm saying this again as it seems that you can't get this into your heads that what a criminal does and what punishments they should get has nothing to do with that they transpost or how they fit their freighters and all of that. It has ONLY to do with what needs to happen to a ganker once they commit a crime in high sec. Get it now? Again, you don't get to dictate the direction of conversation. Read the thread title, it's a request for a Concord balance pass. Presenting arguments for such a pass being unnecessary is valid discussion. Thus far, both you and the OP have proven to be ignorant about the mechanics being discussed actually work, and are therefore not in a position to be presenting arguments for the proposal, or to be suggesting improvements. No, we have proven that some of you are out of arguments and have to throw out lame excuses to make you more relevant. You have given no explanations on why criminals shouldn't be treated as criminals and have only said 'it's a game' and 'this is not how EVE works'. Maybe you shouldn't tell me / us something we already know? Just because things are like that, shouldn't prevent CCP from improving the game from ideas from the communituy. It's that simple. Because this is about changing a broken mechanic for the better where criminals are treated as ACTUAL criminals and not like a yoyo-duck who can fart around like nothing ever has happened after doing a crime like it is now. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 723	Posted - 2017.02.27 11:48:50 - [126] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: We all get what you are saying and just don't agree with you. That's all fine, but it would be nice of you if you could explain why a system like this wouldn't make it better for everyone in the long run? Because there already are consequences for criminals and they are good enough. You make it sound like every freighter that undocks is getting ganked ,which is not true. CCP has given you the tools to punish criminals, but if you don't want to take advange of those, you don't get to cry for more. No, and that's where you are completely wrong. The penalties for the criminals are NOT fine when you can just keep dicking around doing the same crime over and over without having to fear ANY more consequences over the consequence you got the first time you commited a crime. The penalties you get for doing the first crime from Concord is like kicking you in the butt. It hurts a little, but you can easily handle the next kick in the butt if you do the same crime again. Because of that, you see that you can just keep doing it no problem. Heck, when i was young and was doing bad things, i one time did steal a pack of bubblegum from a store. I got denied access to that store for a whole 1 month, for just stealing a small pack of bubblegum. Do you think i would get another 1 month again for stealing from them again? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 729	Posted - 2017.02.27 12:05:15 - [127] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Yes we have and nope I have no need to, you're the one that initially claimed that everybody that is against your "idea" has a gank alt, the onus of proof is on you. Where are your proofs that you are not a ganker? I can't find it here. So until you can prove that, i stand on my argument that you are a massive ganker by the way you posts here. That are my proof in this case. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Judging by your posting you don't, people have been constantly correcting you on your knowledge of game mechanics. I do knows this pretty well. Maybe you should explain to me why i don't know the mechanics and why criminals shouldn't be treated like criminals and not like farting ducks farting around in high sec like nothing has ever happened? Jonah Gravenstein wrote: I'm assuming you mean "how do I think criminals should be treated?" I answered that about 15-20 pages ago. You still haven't given ANY explanations on why criminals shouldn't be treated as actual criminals in EVE. Like i have said several times already, the only explanation you / others have given is 'it's a game' and 'that's not how EVE is'. That doesn't explain why we should change how criminals in EVE works. I'm just sayin. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: No we're saying that fitting a freighter for max cargo is a dumb idea, and that you're dumb for doing it. There is no such thing as over-tanked for a freighter, it is either tanked, or it is not; FYI bulkheads aren't a speed mod, they are a tank mod that actually increases your align to warp time, in short they're an anti speed mod. I'll ignore your off-topic stuff about Titans as it has no relevance in a discussion about hisec specific mechanics Sooooooo, again, you are claiming a player is stupid for using the freighters as a professional transport ship, aka it's intended usage and stupid for not fitting a freigher with a bunch of PVP mods? Let me just say LOL to that. And the thing i said about a Titan was just a perfect example on how stupidly you think they should fit their ship, JUST so they can save their ship. It was so perfect that you couldn't even counter argument against it. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: It has been said repeatedly that people think your idea is ill conceived, poorly researched and generally a steaming turd of an idea; both in terms of gameplay and balance. The only people that think it's a good idea are the OP, whose idea is just as bad, and someone who thinks that ganking is against the EULA. Yes, i know pretty well that some have said to my that my idea is dumb. I don't even have an issue with that alone, but i haven't seen ANY explanation on WHY it is supposed to be dumb. Because i think a criminal should be treated like a criminal and not like a farting duck with a free pass to keep doing whatever crimes they want to do in high sec without facing harder consequences the more they do their crimes. And as i think it's not just me who thinks that a criminal should be treated as a criminal, then i'm pretty sure many will agree with me. The only reason you don't agree with me here is because you are a ganker yourself and doesn't want to faces more challenges to keep ganking the more you do it. You don't have to have a high IQ to figure this out. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 729	Posted - 2017.02.27 12:10:37 - [128] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: You've proven several things, none of which are to your credit Like what? All i have said is to let EVE treat criminals like actual criminals and not like fake criminals with a free pass to do whatever crimes they like to do after 15 minutes. What's so bad about treating criminals as actual criminals in the first place? Jonah Gravenstein wrote: They're already treated as criminals, with the term criminal being defined by CCP and the game mechanics they've provided which deal with them. You've yet to provide any explanations why CCP should change the way that they're treated beyond your ill informed opinion and cries of "I want" There is a difference from being treated as fake criminal or low risk criminal when you do highly illegal things in high sec to actually being treated like an actual criminal. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Many of us don't think that it's broken, welcome to the world of differing opinions. Ofc you will say that as a ganker. Tell me something i'm not aware of. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 729	Posted - 2017.02.27 13:32:31 - [129] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Where is your proof that I am, you made the statement that everybody who disagrees with you is a ganker. That statement is prior to me saying that I am not a ganker, ergo the onus of proof is on you. What you're doing is known as deflection, you've been caught in a lie and are trying to hide it by accusing others of doing the same. Like i have said, the way you posts here and defends a broken mechanic, it's not hard to see on what side you are on. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Because you're obviously ignorant of them, if you knew how the mechanics worked we wouldn't have to constantly correct you on your understanding of them You haven't corrected me on anything towards understanding how a criminal should be treated like. A criminal in EVE now is not being treated like a true criminal. You get a lil 15 minute timer and you are a free man to do whatever crime you want to do again without ANY harsher penalties for continuing to do the crimes like every 15 minutes. Such a nice criminal system right there folks, lol. So maybe you should explain to me why the criminal system shouldn't be changed when it's obvious that the criminals have it way to easy by keep doing their crimes over and over again without any more penalties. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Right back at ya, you've failed to provide any reasons why they should be treated in a way similar to the way that they are treated in the real world (you're the person who keeps bringing the real world into it). Our reasons for not doing so are actually fairly valid. The not least of which are that Eve is not the real world, it is an escape from the real world; and that your idea would generate considerable ball ache for CCP, in terms of time, code, implementation and backlash. Because EVE is a game about humans flying spaceships. And because its all about humans this way when it's about the characters, then it should be logic to treat criminals like real criminals like in real life with humans. So yes, EVE can be compared with real life when real life have planets, galaxies, space station, asteroid belts, stars and humans and so on like in EVE. Again, explain why a game that is all about real humans (under a character) shouldn't be treated as real life criminals? Jonah Gravenstein wrote: If you want to go down the intended use route... A freighter is considered by CCP to be a capital ship, capital ships are corporate level assets that require a support fleet to operate effectively. Fitting for max cargo and jumping into a hornets nest without support is not the intended use. I didn't need a counter to your Titan argument, it is utterly irrelevant to the subject at hand. Would you like to purchase another straw to clutch at? Ok, so high sec is suddenly a hornets nest and not a high security space where most peoples are supposed to have many ways of avoiding that kind of things to begin with? If high sec is a hornets nest, then what the hell is the whole point of having a high sec to begin with then if you can't be in a space where you can be relatively safe where you shouldn't get ganked to hell and back every 15 mins which isn't what high sec is about? Yes, you are like i have said free to gank others in high sec like always, but NOT without facing harder penalties the more you ganks where the ganks will be hader to do the more you do them. That's the whole idea. This is the exact thing you can't explain on why it's a bad idea to have a system like that. Oh buuuhuu, it makes your ganking harder. Who cares about that when the freighter pilots or whoever that might get ganked wont have a good gameplay before they can see that the gankers can't just freely roam around everywhere in high sec without ANY issues and without facing harsher penalties for committing more and more crimes. Do you think it's fun for those who have to live with getting potentially getting ganked every 15 minutes where the freighter pilit has to suffer alot while the gankers who are highly breaking the rules of high sec isn't suffering at all and aren't facing any more penalties the more crimes you do? If you want balance in EVE, you can't just think about what the gankers do, you have to think about what every sides of the eve does and get. Simpler than that it can't get. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 729	Posted - 2017.02.27 13:36:30 - [130] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: There's been plenty of explanation of the how and whys of your idea being a steaming pile of excrement. It's ill conceived, poorly researched, and demonstrates a lack of understanding about the current mechanics, it rewards the lazy and the greedy, while punishing those that aren't one or the other and it has consequences that reach far beyond gankers. Above all it doesn't solve a problem that exists. That problem being people doing stupid things with freighters and feeding gankers easy kills. Continuing this conversation with you is pointless, you just keep repeating yourself while adding nothing of value. You say there is plenty of explanations of why my idea is being a steaming pile of excrement. But i can't seems to find those. Care to post some of those explanations that explains in highly details on why a game that is about humans as characters shouldn't be treated as humans for committing crimes? I don't want the lame posts where someone says it's a game and it's not how EVE works, because everyone knows that. But everyone also knows that even though this is not how EVE currently works, it still can be improved / changed for the better for all sides in the long run. Again, read over why i think the risk free ganking some of you do it stupid on why it should be changed to more a risky business to do. Because having no risks doing crimes is not what the risk vs reward concept is about. If you have no risks on what you are doing, you shouldn't have any rewards for it either. And as you as a ganker have no risks except for having to wait a lil 15 minutes before you can keep doing your crimes in empire like nothing has ever happened before again, then you should get no reward for that either. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: There's been plenty of explanation of the how and whys of your idea being a steaming pile of excrement. It's ill conceived, poorly researched, and demonstrates a lack of understanding about the current mechanics, it rewards the lazy and the greedy, while punishing those that aren't one or the other and it has consequences that reach far beyond gankers. Above all it doesn't solve a problem that exists. That problem being people doing stupid things with freighters and feeding gankers easy kills. If there have been plenty of explanation on why my idea is being a steaming pile of excrement, then sure, go ahead and link them to me. Remember to not give me the lame posts where they say it's a game and this is not how EVE currently works. Because everyone knows that. Show me a post where someone have explained in highly details why a criminal in EVE shouldn't be treated as a real criminal that should face harder penalties the more crimes they do. Again, i have got no explanations on why this is bad. ABSOLUTELY nothing. And a freighter pilot is NOT lazy or greedy for doing it's intended job of delivering stuffs in a freigher the way a freighter is made to be in the first place. My idea solves a big problem that the criminals has to work hader to keep ganking in high sec the more they do crimes. It's called risk vs reward. But because you have no risk, you shouldn't really have a big reward either. It's that simple. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 729	Posted - 2017.02.27 13:48:41 - [131] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: The only one that thinks there is an issue with this, is you. Everyone else seems to think that there is no need for that as you cannot and shouldn't stop people from doing dumb things by changing the game mechanics. The devs have already made the tools for you to take on the criminals (you CAN shoot at them in space), it's not their fault that you don't use those tools. You also give the impression that every hauler is scared to undock because they will 99% sure be killed, which is actually not true and you have provided ZERO evidence to prove any of the claims you post. They are nothing more than your opinions. First i will say that i kinda messed up the last post from me there as i seems to have posted the same quote 2 times. But anyways. Yeah i see this as an issue, because i'm not a ganker who have a free ride of ganking others with high rewards for having no risks over and over again in the infinite loop without having anything to risk, which by the way goes completely against the risk vs reward concept / balance of EVE. If you have no risks, then you shouldn't get any big rewards either. However, if you risks alot, then you can expect to gain alot of rewards. As how the current ganking mechanic works, this is not how things works with that. So it should be changed to reflect the risk vs reward balance. And also, this has nothing to do with preventing dumb peoples from doing dumb things. It has to do with having a system that punishes criminals harder the more crimes they do in high sec. How many ***** times do i have to say this? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:** 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 729	Posted - 2017.02.27 13:52:58 - [132] - Quote unidenify wrote: what Ganker lost is: his ship that will not be covered by Insurance. loss of Security Status (low enough, you would be hunted by faction police in high sec, and be shoot able by any players) victim can set Kill Right to public for any hunter to use, which enable everyone to hunt you down if they want 1. He lost a couple of million isks which isn't a loss to anyone considering what they gain for ganking a freighter. 2. The security status doesn't prevent you from committing crimes in high sec. 3. And no one of those will ever be able to catch you before you have ganked someone. Again, HUUUUGE rewards for no risks which goes against the risk vs reward balance / concept of EVE. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 729	Posted - 2017.02.27 14:04:58 - [133] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: You keep comparing a single ganker to a single hauler. You don't gank with a single ship. The problems is when alot of players are ganking the same target. But that problem can be fixed or improved upon by adjusting some mechanics towards each invidual criminal on what they will face for doing a criminal act. That will also make ganking with a single player more balanced to. Because if one player gets penalized for doing a crime, then all othe others who does the same crimes will get the same treatment as a criminal. You will still be able to commit crimes as normal. The only differences is that it will be harder to do the crimes the more you do it, because the police will be all over you because you have pissed them off for continuing to break the rules of high sec. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 729	Posted - 2017.02.27 14:15:32 - [134] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Again, there are tools that you can use currently, but instead of using them, you are asking CCP change game-mechanics to "fix" an issue that you have no proof of, except you "feel" it's not right. Secondly, this is a GAME. Not real life. You do things in here that you wouldn't do in real life. You cannot copy mechanics from real life into the game just because "we are all human playing this". You have to prove that something is not working correctly ( which again, requires EVIDENCE, not just that you feel something isn't right) Thirdly, just because someone doesn't agree with you, it does not mean they are a ganker. They just can think beyond their own type of play. What are those tools you are talking about? If a freighter pilot want to do his job effectively and professioonal, then he can't just start to fit their freighters with PVP mods just so they "maybe can" save their ships if they gets unlucky getting ganked by criminals. because they aren't doing their intended job of being a freighter pilot if they PVP fit their freighters. Yes, are they gonna freight, or are they gonna PVP? So the tool of fitting differently for them is not really a choice. And the 2nd tool you probably are going to say, is by using alts / friends. But tell me how a freighter pilot should be able to use an alt or friends when the freighter pilot have to use alts or friends and cover the 3-4 jumps out from every direction / to every systems from the system you are in to make sure a potential bumping Machariel isn't there or to prevent a ganking fleet of Destroyers to get the freighter as the Destrouyer fleet can easily take 3 jumps and still arrive at the freighter before it has entered warp, even without being bumped. Using an alt or some few friends this way doesn't work when you take into consideration on how many Machariels there are out there and how fast a ganking fleet of Destroyer can move several systems before a freighter can enter warp anyways. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 729	Posted - 2017.02.27 14:17:45 - [135] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: NightmareX wrote: Wander Prian wrote: You keep comparing a single ganker to a single hauler. You don't gank with a single ship. The problems is when alot of players are ganking the same target. But that problem can be fixed or improved upon by adjusting some mechanics towards each invidual criminal on what they will face for doing a criminal act. That will also make ganking with a single player more balanced to. Because if one player gets penalized for doing a crime, then all othe others who does the same crimes will get the same treatment as a criminal. You will still be able to commit crimes as normal. The only differences is that it will be harder to do the crimes the more you do it, because the police will be all over you because you have pissed them off for continuing to break the rules of high sec. If you want to police the criminals, you can already do it. Outlaws are free to be shot as well as anyone who has just commited a criminal act, so just get out there and start hunting. but you won't, as you don't see that as being worth your time, because ISK/hr, so CCP has to change the mechanics as you "feel" them being wrong. The game is working as it should, but you just won't accept that fact. This isn't real life. We are playing a game. If you don't like it, nobody is forcing you to play... The problem is that we as human players can't even come close on controlling the criminals as fast as Concord can do. Because of that, we as human players are useless before a gank actually happens and for the minute after has happened. And once the gank is happening, we can't just insta teleport to you and start shooting you either. So this wont work when it comes to this type of ganking. However, this will rather work better against suspects for example that we can go after. So the "tool' you say we have this way are not working against this type of ganking. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 729	Posted - 2017.02.27 14:42:34 - [136] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: If all you do as a freighter-pilot is fit max cargo and undock, it's their own damn fault fot taking a too big risk. They should know better and be prepaired for PVP that MIGHT happen. Also, the gankers are working as a team and then you complain how the freighter is supposed to be viable as a solo-job? That's not how it works sunshine. They takes risks no matter what setup they use. A freighter pilot is not supposed to fly around with tanking / speed mods as a freighter is not supposed to be tanked or used with speed mods as the freighter is slow as a snail to begin with. Anyone who undocks are taking risks of getting ganked, PERIOD. But that's not the issue here. The issue is like i have said a million times by now on how criminals gets treated by the police, specially when you can just do the same crime over and over again without facing any harder penalties. That's the issue. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 734	Posted - 2017.02.27 15:09:15 - [137] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Wander Prian wrote: If all you do as a freighter-pilot is fit max cargo and undock, it's their own damn fault fot taking a too big risk. They should know better and be prepaired for PVP that MIGHT happen. How I love it when noobs run their mouths about things they have no clue about. It does absolutely not matter if a freighter fits tank or cargo expanders. Not. In. Any. Way. Every freighter will die if the cargo is just juicy enough. And having to go 3x through Niarja or Uedama instead of 1x is not going to make you safer either. It in fact increasing your risk considerably because you give bumpers and scanners more opportunities to catch you. You cannot prepare a freighter against or for PVP. As soon as it got engaged in a serious way (ie. not just a wannabee-ransomer-Machariel) by a Blackbird (if webber was used) or just a Machariel, it is dead. Even the highest tank and logi reps from AG or whatever cannot change that. Please don't make yourself look more a fool than you already are and refrain from telling me "Escorts work". They do not, have never and will never work. Thank you for explaining the facts here. I gave you a thumbs up for that. Wander Prian wrote: So now we are back at ganking at a thread that supposedly is not about ganking? This is just a "nerf ganking" thread, no matter how you look at it. Balancing it doesn't mean it has to be nerfed. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 734	Posted - 2017.02.28 13:45:01 - [138] - Quote Nisanthro wrote: TL;DR: Erich Einstein: Outlaws should be benned from high sec! NightmareX: Yes! Because real life! everyone else: When do the two realize they are probably wrong, now matter how much they want to be right? I mean, there are two of them (and one random puppet with poor spelling skills) against EVERYONE ELSE. Is their ego so big they must be right even though proven otherwise over and over? Everyone else are the idiots? Not sure where you get your idea from that we want outlaws banned from high sec from. If you actually had been bothered to read what we are saying, we want a system that makes it harder (yes, not impossible as you dudes are saying) to do more ganks the more you do it. Yes, that's all we want. And ofc, the security status should be a big factor if you can enter high sec in a ship bigger than a pod / Shuttle or not. If you do crimes, you have to take responsibility for your actions and do something about it to fix that if you want to come back into high sec in ships. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 735	Posted - 2017.02.28 14:02:07 - [139] - Quote baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: Not sure where you get your idea from that we want outlaws banned from high sec from. The fact that you are asking to ban outlaws from highsec because that is what your idea effectively does. It doesn't. How will a harsher police ban outlaws from high sec? Are a harsher police preventing you from entering high sec in a ship? Again, my idea will only make the police harder against the criminals THE MORE THEY DO CRIMES. Yes i had to write that in caps to you so you might get the point. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 736	Posted - 2017.02.28 14:32:52 - [140] - Quote baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: It doesn't. How will a harsher police ban outlaws from high sec? NightmareX wrote: instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) moves in. Thats how. Dependent on how much crimes you have done before and what your sec status is before you jump into that high sec system. Again, if you want to have it more easy in high sec, then limit your crimes and fix your sec status. All tools are available to do that. It's simple, you have to work for your crimes. Reshipping into a new ship and just sit lazy waiting 15 minutes is no work. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 736	Posted - 2017.02.28 14:37:09 - [141] - Quote baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: Dependent on how much crimes you have done before and what your sec status is before you jump into that high sec system. Again, if you want to have it more easy in high sec, then limit your crimes and fix your sec status. All tools are available to do that. Why do we need this further nerf to both ganking and people in lowsec? Are we talking about the action we do in high sec or low sec? Low sec and 0.0 space stays the same. We are again talking about the crimes you do in high sec. Get it? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 736	Posted - 2017.02.28 14:41:26 - [142] - Quote baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: Are we talking about the action we do in high sec or low sec? Low sec and 0.0 space stays the same. We are again talking about the crimes you do in high sec. Get it? You are nerfing both gankers and lowsec players by locking them out of highsec. Why is this nerf required? No it doesn't. How exactly does it nerf them for letting them get harsher punishment the more crimes they do? Maybe you should explain in details on why it will be a nerf? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 738	Posted - 2017.02.28 14:43:42 - [143] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Just go back burn to gate ;) as you always says to your preys =) Webbed. Scammed. Locking people out of highsec is not good for the game. Again, it all depends on your earlier crimes that day and it depends on your sec status. Again, work for your crimes. If you works for your crimes, you can always come back to high sec again way easier and do more crimes. But don't expect easy life in high sec if you do keep doing crimes and breaking the law there over and over. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 738	Posted - 2017.02.28 16:45:17 - [144] - Quote Dark Lord Trump wrote: NightmareX wrote: baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: Are we talking about the action we do in high sec or low sec? Low sec and 0.0 space stays the same. We are again talking about the crimes you do in high sec. Get it? You are nerfing both gankers and lowsec players by locking them out of highsec. Why is this nerf required? No it doesn't. How exactly does it nerf them for letting them get harsher punishment the more crimes they do? Maybe you should explain in details on why it will be a nerf? Making something harder for the same reward is a nerf. You have yet to prove that ganking needs (another) nerf. It doesn't. It just means that you have to work harder to be able to do your ganks. Working harder for your crimes is not a nerf, but a balance. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 738	Posted - 2017.02.28 16:53:41 - [145] - Quote baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: No it doesn't. How exactly does it nerf them for letting them get harsher punishment the more crimes they do? Maybe you should explain in details on why it will be a nerf? NightmareX wrote: instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) moves in. Thats a nerf. Again, why is this required? Again, why are you bringing in 'instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) moves in.' when that has only to do with your sec status? Faction police only goes after you if your sec status is bad enough. So like i have said, fix your goddamn sec status (yeah work for your crimes) if you want to avoid that. Making you work for your crimes is not a nerf for ganking. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 738	Posted - 2017.02.28 19:58:27 - [146] - Quote baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: Again, why are you bringing in 'instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD (edit: Faction Police) moves in.' when that has only to do with your sec status?. Because it locks out people who gank and pvp in low sec. Why do they need this nerf? Then work to fix the sec status then so you don't lose that ability. It's not rocket scientist stuffs we are talking about here. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 738	Posted - 2017.02.28 20:19:24 - [147] - Quote baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: Then work to fix the sec status then so you don't lose that ability. It's not rocket scientist stuffs we are talking about here. You have yet to tell us why this nerf is needed. A balance is not a nerf. Not only that, but everything that is done in low sec and 0.0 space wont be affected. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 738	Posted - 2017.02.28 20:20:40 - [148] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Nobody has ever explained why it is a good idea to lock me out of highsec because I am pathologically incapable of not shooting the pod in lowsec. Again, how do you get locked out of high sec for facing harder penalties the more crimes you do 'IN HIGH-SEC'? Having a harder penalty is not locking anyone out. Just sayin. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 738	Posted - 2017.02.28 22:01:55 - [149] - Quote Dark Lord Trump wrote: So if you make it harder, I can do less ganks, and since apparently ganking is an infinite faucet of ISK for gankers, I make less money. If CCP halved the amount of minerals in highsec ore, that would mean miners make less. That's a nerf. If freighters suddenly had their cargoholds halved, they'd make less money moving things since they can't fit as much. That's also a nerf. So why, pray tell, is allowing me less ganks not a nerf but a "balance?" Making things harder isn't forcing you to do any less ganking. It just make you work a little harder for each crime you do. And do work for your action is something that everyone has to face. Yeah, the gankers can just fit up a ship, undock and do the gank, and rince and repeat forever without any work at all as all of his gank ships are already fitted in the station. So balancing this out is a good idea. Remember, no risk = no reward. Alot of risk = slot of reward. That's EVE. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 738	Posted - 2017.02.28 22:10:21 - [150] - Quote Dark Lord Trump wrote: NightmareX wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: So if you make it harder, I can do less ganks, and since apparently ganking is an infinite faucet of ISK for gankers, I make less money. If CCP halved the amount of minerals in highsec ore, that would mean miners make less. That's a nerf. If freighters suddenly had their cargoholds halved, they'd make less money moving things since they can't fit as much. That's also a nerf. So why, pray tell, is allowing me less ganks not a nerf but a "balance?" Making things harder isn't forcing you to do any less ganking. It just make you work a little harder for each crime you do. And do work for your action is something that everyone has to face. Yeah, the gankers can just fit up a ship, undock and do the gank, and rince and repeat forever without any work at all as all of his gank ships are already fitted in the station. So balancing this out is a good idea. Remember, no risk = no reward. Alot of risk = slot of reward. That's EVE. If I have to repair my sec status after every gank/every X ganks, that takes time away from ganking, and I only have so much time to play. Ergo, I am forced to gank less. It's also balanced. The gankers ARE the risk, and they wouldn't get nearly as much reward if people didn't autopilot 10bil freighters through known gank systems. Ehh, it seem to me that you have absolutely no clues what so ever what you are talking about. You barely lose sec status for ganking ships. It's the podding that hurts. You can gank many times before you will go towards the outlaw status. Then it might be an idea to maybe fix that as long as you want to avoid getting problems with the faction police. Also, you can buy security tags that fixes you sec status fast. So you have 2 options. 1. Buy tags and get out of the sec status dilemma easily but the expensive way, or npc it back the hard but cheap way. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 738	Posted - 2017.02.28 22:15:22 - [151] - Quote Erich Einstein wrote: I dont expect everyone to agree. People have their own agendas. Try to keep things constructive instead of just throwing out generalized negative comments. He didn't even had any valid arguments on why it's stupid according to him either. The only thing i have seen as argument from one of them is that it gets harder to do gank. Yeah, but i mean, you have to work for everything in EVE, so why shouldn't criminals works for what they do, lol? Not only that, but ANY criminals in high sec should work harder than any law abiding players in high sec, because they are breaking the rules of high sec. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 745	Posted - 2017.03.01 15:17:02 - [152] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: WTF really? and where have you been from the last xxx of pages? Trying to get an answer to my question. I has been answered several times that it's not a nerf, but a balance. You haven't even explained why it's is a nerf other than 'boohoo', it will be more work to gank the more you do it. Not only that, criminals who are in high sec breaking the rules are SUPPOSED to work way harder to break the rules over what the law abiding players in high sec do. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 745	Posted - 2017.03.01 21:13:31 - [153] - Quote baltec1 wrote: No matter how many times you say this it will never be true. Asking to lock people out of highsec is a big nerf. Again, making criminals work harder for the crimes they do is not locking anyone out of high sec. Do you even know the difference from making things harder to completely make thing impossible, bro? Clearly not. baltec1 wrote: 3 times I highlighhted the part that makes it a nerf. Again, having the faction navies scram and web you the instant you enter highsec is a nerf. No you haven't. All you have been doing is crying that my idea is going to lock criminals out of high sec, which it doesn't. Again, making things harder to do is not locking anyone out. But if you expect to get everything to be delivered to you on the basket so you don't have to lift a finger to make any effort what so ever to do your crimes, then sure, you might not like the idea of working for your crimes. baltec1 wrote: They already do. We are all still waiting on you telling us why this massive nerf is required. No they don't. If you think doing a gank / crime, complete the objective by suiciding a freighter, warp back to station and then jump into a new ship and then just wait 14-15 minutes is hard work, then let me ask, how lazy are you? That's barely making any effort at all for the massive profits you make doing that. Do you hate changes to the game that might make the game better? And lastly. I'm not gonna tell you why it's a nerf, because it's not a nerf, but a balance. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 745	Posted - 2017.03.01 21:26:47 - [154] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Really? So you just admited that you are fine that you can do a lot of ganks "because you are short for a gameplay time" and don't give a ** about players which u ganged and have to work out their 10 b cargo and ship by itself ? BECAUSE if the thing would be ballanced then you will loose your fun? WTF is wrong with you people?! You know people can already nearly eliminate their gameplay by not carrying 10B in cargo and simply using a Webber. No changes are needed except the behaviour of people. So what you are saying is that the freighters can't be used for their intended usage by carrying alot of things without going into a death trap? Why have freighters in the first place if they can't be used for more than what a normal hauler is, just because of alot of value for carrying alot of stuffs is being transported by freighters? Why make large trailers that carries a lot of products that might kill alot of products if it crashes when we have cars that might not destroy many products as you can only put few products back in the trunk of the car and do 10 runs instead of 1 with the trailer instead? That's basicly what you are saying that we rather should move tons of products with smaller cars over bigger trailers who can transport ALOT of products worth alot of money JUST because the products might get destroyed on it's route. Do you know how stupid that is? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:** 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 745	Posted - 2017.03.01 22:19:31 - [155] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: NightmareX wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Naye Nathaniel wrote: Really? So you just admited that you are fine that you can do a lot of ganks "because you are short for a gameplay time" and don't give a ** about players which u ganged and have to work out their 10 b cargo and ship by itself ? BECAUSE if the thing would be ballanced then you will loose your fun? WTF is wrong with you people?! You know people can already nearly eliminate their gameplay by not carrying 10B in cargo and simply using a Webber. No changes are needed except the behaviour of people. So what you are saying is that the freighters can't be used for their intended usage by carrying alot of things? No, he's saying freighters aren't expected to carry high value cargoes, they excel in the transport of vast quantities of low value goods. If you want to carry very large, expensive items such as certain deployables, then escorts become a necessity. Quote: Why have freighters in the first place if they can't be used for more than what a normal hauler is, just because of alot of value for carrying alot of stuffs is being transported by freighters? Because freighters, much like any other ship in the game excel at a given task but aren't the ultimate solution to all logistical problems. Freighters should be able to carry as much value as they possible can and still have high chances of getting ganked. What you don't seems to understand is that the gankers shouldn't be able to easily continue the same ganking over and over without any more consequences. You will still be able to gank many haulers, freighters or whatever, but not without harsher penalies the more you gank / do ciminal activities in high sec. Do you understand it now? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:** 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 745	Posted - 2017.03.01 22:53:29 - [156] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: NightmareX wrote: Freighters should be able to carry as much value as they possible can and still have high chances of getting ganked. What you don't seems to understand is that the gankers shouldn't be able to easily continue the same ganking over and over without any more consequences. You will still be able to gank many haulers, freighters or whatever, but not without harsher penalies the more you gank / do ciminal activities in high sec. Do you understand it now? Yes. Question: Why? Why do we need harsher punishments? The deterrents to ganking already puts people off doing it without a reason, so the system we have already enjoys some degree of success. Why should it be changed to make the profession even less attractive? Why should incompetent/lazy/greedy pilots have an even easier time in this game at the expense of pirates and more competent freighter pilots? This is a very important question that despite having lurked and posted in many, many "one more nerf" threads, I've never seen answered. Yes, you need harsher penalties, because the small penalties you get for the reward of ganking a freighter or any other expensive things you gank is insane. You barely have to make ANY effort at all to gain huge profits for doing ganking all day long. And it's way to easy to just doing it in the infinite loop without having anything to worry about except for having to wait a lil 15 minutes. Remember, no risk = no reward. Alot of risk = alot of reward. That's EVE. And the profession as a criminal / ganker will still be the same after this. All you have to do is make more effort and do more work to be able to continue your ganks / criminal acts. So if you work for your crimes, then you will still be able to gank as much as you do now. It's simple. And what is the point of high sec if it will be considered a guaranteed death trap (totally different from having a risk) to everyone the second someone with some value undocks from a station? Yes, everyone will risk (not the same as 100% death trap) something everytime someone undocks. That's how it has been and how it should be forever. But having a guaranteed death trap everytime you undock just because a freighter is being used as it's intended usage of transporting tons of things that might be worth alot, is not the same as taking a risk when you undock. Figure out the difference from taking a risk to see the instant death when you undock. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 745	Posted - 2017.03.01 23:17:40 - [157] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Dark Lord Trump wrote: He's repeating himself because you clearly didn't get it the first time. Or the second time. Or the third time... As entertaining as it is to watch 2 people flounder around in a shallow pool of their own circular reasoning, what this thread needs is Tippia, this kind of thing was their bread and butter So, do you have a very good explanation on why freighters can't be used as their intended usage of transporting alot of things worth alot of isk when they are going in an infinite death trap loop once they undock, just because they are carrying things that are worth alot which is their whole point? Having an instant death trap is not what the risk you are talking about is. Because an instant death trap is not the same as taking a "risk". And do you have a good explanation on why criminals shouldn't get harsher penalties for doing criminal acts / breaking the law more and more in high sec when the criminals isn't being treated as criminals that way? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 745	Posted - 2017.03.01 23:39:43 - [158] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: This is not a mechanical problem, this is a player generated problem. CCP cannot fix this, only the players can. There will always be a portion of the player base who get a little too greedy and attempt to overfill their ships in the hopes of getting bigger rewards for less work. The appropriate response to finding yourself on the wrong side of a profitable gank is to figure out how to make yourself less profitable to gank. If more players did this, HiSec ganking would become much, much more difficult. CCP have all the abilities to fix this. Because once the criminals starts to get a harder life in high sec the more criminal acts they do with this system, the more you have to work for continuing your ganks in an easy way. And i haven't been talking about making a gank more or lesser profitable. I have only been talking about making it harder and harder to do your ganks the more you do it in high sec. You will still be able to gank a 10-20 bill isk freighter as easily AND as many of those as today as long as you takes more consequences / penalties for your criminal acts and as long as you takes cares of your sec status. With this, the criminals has to face the treatment as a criminal and the ones who are ganked can feel that the gankers gets a deserved penalty. This benefits EVE and it makes you think before you do your crimes. Hiasa Kite wrote: Yes, I get it. You still haven't adequately stated why these changes would benefit the game. Look over. But you haven't explained why it wouldn't benefit the game except for crying that it will make you work harder for your ganks the more you do it. In fact, it should be like that. Because, the more i steal from a grocery store, the bigger change it is that i will be locked behind a bar and not be able to freely go free around in the city. The police should work as a police with a track history over your crimes. Hiasa Kite wrote: It's not. It's extremely difficult to kill someone that has taken the appropriate steps to protect their cargo. Yes, even cargoes that require a freighter are difficult to find, track and take out when the job is done properly. It is, because all you are saying is that a freighter deserves to be ganked if it carries stuffs worth a certain amount of isk. And carrying alot of stuffs worth alot of isk is their whole point. So you are denying freighter pilots to actually be a freighter pilot just because you have the easy life of ganking the living crap out of them just because they are doing their job of carrying alot of things that might be worth alot of isk. Their cargo value shouldn't determinte if they should go into an instant death trap or not. It should rather be that you will see their value of the cargo and then see if the coming penalty that you will get for ganking him will be worth the gank. This way, you might see that the gank might not be worth it if you can't enter high sec in a ship bigger than a shuttle or a pod for one day for doing that as an example. It should be way more than just the value that determine if the gank is worth it. Hiasa Kite wrote: A competent freighter pilot enjoys somewhere in the region of 99.9% success rate, according to the stats released by Red Frog. A 0.1% chance of failing a contract is hardly guaranteed instant death when you undock. Have you considered the possibility that other freighter pilots are simply better at the profession than you? With my idea, no lesser freighters will be ganked if the criminals has to work harder for each ganks / criminal acts they do. The only thing that will change is that the criminals gets treated like criminals that will get a harder life the more crimes they do, like criminals have been treated in humans history. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 745	Posted - 2017.03.01 23:48:06 - [159] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: You've utterly misunderstood the role freighters fill. Thus would explain the mistakes you've made in other posts. Freighters aren't intended to carry high value cargoes. They're intended to carry very large quantities of low value goods. Freighters are used to transport alot of things that might be worth alot. Just because they are using the ships for their intended usage, it's should be ok to let them get into a death trap just because of that? And the gankers isn't the ones who decides on how much vaule the freighters are allowed to transport as it's the freighter pilots job of deciding that. Freighters are the biggest transport ships in EVE that is meant to carry alot of items and stuffs that will be worth alot when you considers on how much they can transport. Again, the value of the cargo shouldn't be the ONLY factor a ganker has to take into consideration when you are ganking something. There should be more penalties and consequences than just losing a worthless peice of ship that costs nothing to replace and only have to wait 15 mins until you can do the same gank over and over forever. There should be a system in EVE that let's every ganker / criminals in EVE really think over the upcoming penalties and consequences they will face on top of the value on the freighters cargo before they just decides to gank away. Hiasa Kite wrote: EVE revolves around player conflict. It creates opportunities for players to compete with, sabotage, cooperate and benefit from each other. By reducing opportunities for conflict, you reduce opportunities for players to simply enjoy interacting with each other, not just the pirates. Again, my idea doesn't reduces opportunities for conflicts when you just have to work harder for your crimes to be able to gank as easily as you do now today. The more ganks you do, the more you have to work for it. The lesser ganks you do, the easier you will have it in empire. This is a very simple and effective system that should be in EVE, like today. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 745	Posted - 2017.03.02 00:02:30 - [160] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: They can, whats the problem? Eve is a game of balance, as a hauler you balance your risk of getting ganked by limiting your cargo value and by sacrificing a little cargo for tank, in the case of freighters a considerable amount of tank. If it's a low volume high value cargo you use something more suitable; a freighter being a bulk carrier, not an armoured car. They seems to not be able to do their job as their value determines their fate, because the gankers isn't getting hard enough penalties or consequences that makes the gankers think harder before they actually do a crime or a gank. Again, there should be more than just the value of the cargo that should be applied before a ganker is ganking a freighter or whatever. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: It's not an instant death trap, not unless you were in Jita over the weekend. Hundreds of trips and tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of jumps are made by freighters every day. How many die? How many die in highsec? How many die to wardecs? How many die to undocking while suspect How many die to suicide gankers? How does Crimewatch currently work? These are the sorts of things that you should know and include details of in your posts, these are facts, these we can work with. You know that Jita is the busiest system in EVE where alot of peoples are every day independent of Burn Jita event? And like i have said a million times already, this has nothing to do with how many freighters that dies or survives. It has ONLY to do with having a much better criminal system in EVE that makes the criminal really think over the penalties and consequences before they looks at only the value of the cargo before they just ganks away. Having a system that determines if a gank is worth it where the value of the cargo is the only deciding factor is not a good system for criminals. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: There's a problem, and I have a solution, is just opinion if you can't actually prove the problem exists in the first place. Many of us don't see a problem, it's up to you to convince us of this. So far, you're failing miserably. Ofc you don't see a problem here as you are a ganker and loves the easy life of ganking and the easy life of gaining massive profits for no risks by abusing an outdated system that doesn't gives the criminals good enough penalties or consequences for their actions. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: We're still waiting for your explanation as to how the current system works and why the current penalties are not enough. All we've seen so far is your opinion with no actual supporting evidence. I have explained this several times. Go read them over asking to get everything handed to you with a spoon everytime. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 00:11:07 - [161] - Quote Dark Lord Trump wrote: First of all, the burden of proof is on you, as you have made a suggestion. So far all I've seen is "waaaah gankers make too much money and I'm too lazy to not get ganked and it's not fair." Second, EvE is a cold, harsh universe, and we're all immortals with jump clones, so jail doesn't really work. The police chase you once you enough crimes, and CONCORD revokes its protection once you commit even more. I fail to see how adding more punishments increases realism or improvesa the game. This has nothing to do with how much money the gankers gain. It has ONLY to do with what penalties and consequences the gankers / criminals are getting for doing ganking / crimes more and more. And it also has something to do with the insanely low risks they have to take to do their criminal acts. That's why i want a system that does apply a track history of your crimes where Concord will be punishing you harder and harder the more crimes you do every day. And ofc where you will be more limited in high sec depending on your sec status. Again, you should work for your crimes and not just press F1 to gank something and warp back to station and do the same thing over and over forever. It should be harder than that. NightmareX wrote: It is, because all you are saying is that a freighter deserves to be ganked if it carries stuffs worth a certain amount of isk. And carrying alot of stuffs worth alot of isk is their whole point. So you are denying freighter pilots to actually be a freighter pilot just because you have the easy life of ganking the living crap out of them just because they are doing their job of carrying alot of things that might be worth alot of isk. [quote=NightmareX]Their cargo value doesn't determine their fate, their skill does. Cargo value just makes them a more valuable target, and therefore more people will want to kill them. Someone running a scout/webber and being smart can carry much more valuable loads. You don't have the right to carry a huge amount of ISK and be safe in highsec. Both the value of the ship and the cargo is what determine if a gank will happen or not. Yes, a freighter is an expensive ship that is dead slow. Should it die in an instant gank just because it's worth some isks where the gankers doesn't face any harder penalties or consequences for doing that over and over, specially when it's so freaking easy to do that? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 00:26:32 - [162] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Like I said, the problem is greed. CCP can't stop players from being lazy or greedy. As long as we give in to those temptations and try to push our luck, gankers will be there to capitalise on our mistakes. So greed should determine if a freighter pilot should be able to do their job or not? Ofc, they might not be able to do their job as they might get ganked on their way like it is now. But that shouldn't prevent criminals from gaining harsher penatlies and consequences the more crimes they do in high sec. Hiasa Kite wrote: Literally the sentence above. More work for ganking means less profit/hr spent ganking. Yes, no less ganks will happen as long as you gets your finger out of your ass and works for your criminal actions over just warping back to a station and refit the same ship again and waits 15 mins which isn't what i call for much work for what you gain. Hiasa Kite wrote: How does reducing opportunities for player interaction help a Massively Multiplayer Online game, exactly? And how is it fair that you don't have to work for your criminal actions at all other than just warping back to station and refit a ship and wait 15 mins when everyone else has to work their asses off to do their job? Hiasa Kite wrote: I don't gank. Maybe spend more time putting together a valid argument and less time attempting to belittle those that disagree with you. That's something you say to justify your lame arguments more. Everyone knows that you are a ganker with one or more characters. Hiasa Kite wrote: I'm well aware of your opinion on the matter. Stating it over and over does very little to help see why you think the game should be changed like that. I'm stating it over and over as peoples doesn't seems to figure out that my idea has nothing to do with the value of anything, ability to continue to to the ganks and so on. It has ONLY to do with facing harder penalties and consequences the more crimes you do that makes the criminals work a bit more for their crimes. And that is fair, because a criminal is a criminal after all and not a normal citizen of high sec. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 00:27:19 - [163] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Not quite. I'm saying a pilot that puts no effort into defending what is his deserves to lose it. If you can find a way to safely transport 10bil ISK in a freighter then I say power to you and congratulations on the vast swathes of wealth you would deservedly acquire. And how do you think a freighter pilot is supposed to defend themself from a bumping Machariel that can be everywhere considering on how many that are flying it that only uses a couple of seconds to ruin his day and will just keep the freighter or whatever bumped until the gank squad arrives. Yes, you can use an alt or a friend to gain some benefits that way for the freighter. But then my question is, why does the freighter pilot has to work his ass off for defending his job / ship when you don't have to work at all to gank him except for warping to the target, press F1, warp back to station and do the same over again after 15 mins? If they have to work their asses off to defend their stuffs, then we suggest that the criminals also should work their asses off. Not only that, but criminals in high sec that breaks the rules of high sec should be working much much harder than any law abiding citizens that are in high sec. Hiasa Kite wrote: I've said this twice in this thread already, maybe third time lucky: Freighters excel at carrying vast quantities of low value goods, not high value goods. And who decides that? You the ganker or the freighter pilot? Hiasa Kite wrote: Wait, I thought we weren't talking about the profitability of freighter ganking. So, we are now, right? All i'm saying is that no risk = no reward. Alot of risk = alot of reward. That's how EVE is. But it's not that for the gankers. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 00:40:16 - [164] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: So there is plenty of public domain data that should support you, why aren't you analysing it and presenting the results to support your call for change? Still doesn't change the fact that there should be a criminal system in EVE that treats criminals like criminals and not like 'Oh you was bad and now you are only bad boy for 15 mins' system like we have now. The 15 minute Concord timer is way to little of a penalty when you considers the gain you get for doing it. Yes, you lose a ship for ganking, you can be shot for 15 minutes by everyone and you lose some few million isk for ganking in a super cheap Destroyer. But those things has no effects what so ever to reduce the ganks that happens. Aka, the current penalties doesn't work. The only penalty that somewhat works are the 15 minute Concord timer. And that's pretty much it. And that's way to little of a penalty for doing a gank, specialluy when you can just keep doing it over and over again without any harsher penalties. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: If it's not about freighter ganking why do you and your comedy sidekick keep bringing it up? You appear to be in a minority of about 3 that think your system would be better. You're not going to convince the people who disagree by telling them that's there's a problem, and when they dispute it, telling them that there's a problem. You have to prove it. So far the amount of what you think far outweighs the amount of actual proof. Read over why i have proven that the current criminal system towards gankers are useless. If there had been a limit on hoe much you could gank every day, then there wouldn't be an issue, but as you can just do it forever every 15 minutes, then the criminal system should either use a limit on the amount of ganks you can do in the same way as now without any other changes, OR it should make doing crimes harder to do the more you do it without any limits. Again, work for your crimes. And in the current form of ganking, there is no work for the actual ganker on doing his objective. That's why it needs to be changed. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Ah, we're back to this again. You are aware that it's a fallacy to assume that I'm a ganker simply because I disagree with you? You might disagree with me, but explain why you are against a criminal system that treats criminals as criminals that does it so the criminals have to work more and more the more ganks they do? Again, if you steal a pack of bubblegum from a store every day, do you think you will get a free pass to go freely around without gaining huge penalties or even jail time for doing it enough times? Again, a criminal is supposed to be treated as a criminal, specially in a game that is only about humans flying spaceships. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: So where's the actual supporting evidence? Telling is something is so, does not make it so. Ahh ok, so you are blind. Thanks for confirming it. Make effort in reading what i'm saying. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:01:22 - [165] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Can be, but better options exist for transporting high value cargo. The freighter is not the be-all-end-all of transport logistics. Yes, that's what they do and that's what they are supposed to do to be able to do their job effectively towards customers and so on. Hiasa Kite wrote: Who lets them enter the death trap? Might it be the person flying the freighter? I'm thinking it's the person flying the freighter. The gankers who can just easly gank them without good enough penalties that works against them that just ganks dependent on their cargo value and not because of the penalties they will face. Both the value of the freighters or other ships with the cargo and the penalties you get for doing the gank should be a factor if you will be doing the gank or not. Hiasa Kite wrote: It's not a question of what one is "allowed" to do. It's a question of what one can do safely. The magic number that dictates this safe cargo value is dictated by the market, game play mechanics, gankers, freighter pilots. In fact, pretty much everything in EVE will have some degree of impact (albeit some would be minuscule) on this magic safe value. Again, you are deciding if the ganks are worth it ONLY because of the value and not because of the upcoming penalties you get on top of that. There should be a system that makes you think about the penalties before you do a gank to really see if it will be worth the gank. It's a super easy system that will work. Hiasa Kite wrote: I'm not sure about that. You can quite happily fill a freighter for much, much less than a billion ISK. If the value/m3 starts climbing too high, you'll want to consider using scouts/escorts, or just using smaller, more defensible ships to transport the much more valuable goods. Again, the ones who decides how much value you should fly around with it's the pilot of the said ship and not the ones who do ganks. If the freighter pilot decides to do a freighter job for a corp that includes alot of items worth alot of isk that needs to be delivered somewhere, then he should be able to do that without having to limit his job and doing his job poorly just because the gankers doesn't like it and finds it easy to gank everything that has some value that forces the freighter pilots to do 3 runs instead of 1, just because the cargo was a bit expensive. Again, you gankers are denying the freither pilots to do their intended job. There are alot of things in EVE that has a value that are also meant to be worth alot. Doesn't mean they should be ganked just because of their value alone. [quote=Hiasa Kite]You're doing it again. You're stating your opinion but not actually explaining how these changes benefit the game. No, i'm stating the hard facts on how easy it is to do ganking as explained over. You just warp to the target from somewhere, press F1, warps back to station in a pod. Fits up a new ship that takes 10 seconds and undock, then it's rince and repeat. This is not opinion on how that's done, because that's exactly how it is done for the actual gankers. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:02:15 - [166] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: The harder ganking becomes, the fewer people will engage in it for profit. As of this writing, in the last 24 hours, there has been one, ONE suicide gank on a freighter in HiSec. And you think that suicide ganking of high value targets is so endemic that we need a mechanics change to stymie the activity. Really? You're really advocating this argument right here? Because you are lazy and because you simply doesn't want to work for your criminal actions. Lazy criminal players shouldn't gain massive profits or gains without taking alot of risks or without doing some work for it. And again, this has nothing to do with what you gank. It has only to do with the penalties you get for continuing to do the criminal acts / ganking. And if the ganking is so rarely happening as you say outside of Burn Jita, then what's the problem then with my idea as you can just continue to do ganking as normal? This only applies to those who decides to do it much more every day and not against those who just do 1 or 2 ganks everyday as they will have it pretty nice and easy in high sec. It's those who do ganks 5-6 times a day that will get punished harder for breaking the law times after times. Hiasa Kite wrote: "This is a very simple and effective system that should be in EVE, like today." Apparently so. Yes. And you haven't explained why it would make things worser either, so there you go. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:06:10 - [167] - Quote baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: So, do you have a very good explanation on why freighters can't be used as their intended usage of transporting alot of things worth alot of isk when they are going in an infinite death trap loop once they undock, just because they are carrying things that are worth alot which is their whole point? What evidence do you have to say freighters are undocking into a deathtrap? Using the data gathered from the largest hauling organisation in EVE, Red Freight, a freighter has a less than 0.20% chance of getting ganked per 1.7 million gate jumps in highsec. Because they will get killed by gankers if it's worth enough no matter what ship it is if the gankers goes for it. So it's a denial of their playing just because they can't do their job of being an effective freighter pilot just because the gankers says so, because they can. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:29:21 - [168] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Intel via in-game and 3rd party resources, scouts, web escorts, military/logi/ECM support, breaking the cargo down into smaller, more manageable chunks, alternate routes including LoSec and the use of jump freighters to traverse if necessary, subcontracting to another freighter if you feel you're not prepared to deal with the risks. Our cup runneth over. So again, the freighter pilots has to work their asses off while you as a ganker can just warp into the targets and do your job without any more work than that? The fact that you think that's fair says all about you. You are a massive ganker that knows how easy and how much you gains by doing it and does everything to defend against, because it makes you work for your actions. Hiasa Kite wrote: Are you honestly trying to tell me that expecting two people to work together is far too much when attempting to defend against somewhere in the region of TWENTY people working together? Consider the above. Do you think that maybe, just maybe you're a little biased right there? As i have said earlier, having an alt with a webber is not going to prevent the freighter from dying if some gankers really want that freighter dead as they will have multiple bumping Machariels pleaced out in every directions that will try to bump the freighters out of allignment in few seconds. I know how fast a nano Machariel can be, so don't teach me on something i have learned many years ago. And what does an intel channel help against gankers if there is Machariels everywhere that the freighter pilots can take as a bumping Machariels. Should the freighter pilots just stop doing his job because he sees a Machariel? Hiasa Kite wrote: They can be aggressed at any time by other players, plus have to deal with kill rights if they fix their sec status, they're always on the run from FacPo and have at best a window of 24 seconds to kill their targets. You do realise that those above conditions mean that criminals can do literally nothing in HiSec except fly around and gank, right? -"I've said this twice in this thread already, maybe third time lucky: [b]Freighters excel at carrying vast quantities of low value goods, not high value goods" -"And who decides that?" CCP. They're the ones that designed them. Again, you are making no sense as you aren't discussing the actual issue of how easy the criminals can get away with doing ganks. If you want to have a discussion, then talk about what the case is about. And the case is giving criminals a system that makes them work harder for doing criminal acts. That's all. Hiasa Kite wrote: Because the game has greedy pilots overfilling their ships with loot, then going on to fail to keep their loot pinatas safe. Like I said: It's not a mechanical problem, it's a player created problem, specifically players that possess an unfortunate combination of stupidity, greed and sloth. Being greedy has nothing to do with how criminals should be treated. You can still be greedy as hell but not without harsher penalties and still at the same time being able to do as many ganks then as you do today with some more work for your criminal actions. Hiasa Kite wrote: These people will always exist, so profitable ganks will always exist. Ofc ganks always will be there. But ganks shouldn't come without penalties or consequences that makes the gankers think about those things before they do a gank. And lastly. I have explained you in highly details on why criminals should be treated as crininals and not like a '15 minute naughty boy' as you do now. If you don't want to give reasonable arguments back on why that's a bad idea, then don't expect someone to take you seriously either. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:36:07 - [169] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: That's not a fact, that's an opinion. I'm of the opinion that the penalties for ganking are overbearing and create a false sense of security amongst the unwary. It's a fact that the current system treats you as a criminal as 'you are a naught boy for 15 minutes' and that's pretty much it. DOing a criminal act of ganking should gain you way more penalties than just being a naughty boy for 15 mins. Hiasa Kite wrote: The 15 minute timer is a game mechanic which CCP controls. The gains from piracy are not, which CCP do not control. You can't fix the latter by tweaking the former. Yes, the Concord timer is something CCP controls. And they also are the ones who are the ones who can change that for the better if there are many ideas on how to improve it, like this topic is meant for in the first place. Hiasa Kite wrote: OK. Go kill someone that deserves some death in HiSec. No? Looks like those deterrents are doing something after all. LOL, you didn't even give me an argument on why i was wrong on that one. Does that mean i'm right that the current penalties has no effects on punishing the gankers enough? Hiasa Kite wrote: Oh look, it's the root of the One More Nerf argument: "Ganking is fine, I just think there is an issue with..." Ganking is fine which this topic clearly states. But because you are stubborn and can't read, you still haven't figured out that this topic and what i'm saying has nothing to do with the actual ganking in itself, but what kind of penalties and consequences the actual players that DOES a criminal act or ganking should face AFTER the intital ganking has happened. Do you even read bro? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:49:32 - [170] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: What fact? This is your opinion, it is a subjective statement, it is biased around what you believe to be true, not what is actually true. For it to be fact it would need to be an objective review of the available information, as such it would have to be free of any opinion, emotional bias, personal feelings etc, it would also have to verifiable. The onus is on you, as the "owner" of the solution to the problem that you perceive, to provide a source for verification and an overview of the methods you used to to analysis it . Thus far your supporting evidence consists of your opinion. It's the hard facts that losing a cheap Destroyer and only gets a 15 minute timer isn't considered a punishment for thtion the objectives they have. Not even the fact that everyone can shoot you for 15 minutes either isn't going to make the ganking in it self ANY harder at all. The only thing that works against the gankers are the 15 minute Concord timer which again is way to little risk compared to what you gain. So explain to me why a lame 15 minute timer is a good enough of a punishment for the gankers? Jonah Gravenstein wrote: The current penalties are harsh enough that only a couple of organised groups suicide gank; 95%+ of people in hisec don't do it, because they consider the penalty to be too harsh. The percentage of people that gank is small, and so is the number of ships that they kill. Read over. The penalties are useless except for the lil 15 minute Concord timer. And a lil 15 minute Concord timer isn't even considered a real punishment. It's just a waiting game, not a punishment. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: You've done nothing of the sort, you've given us some opinion and some more opinion. Proof requires facts, your opinion is not fact. I have given an idea on a system that you barely have been able to counter argument against. You use a lame and aggressive tone in your discussion here and drags in tons of other things that has nothing to do with the penalties that a criminal should face for doing more and more crimes that is the ONLY thing i'm talking about. Grow up or don't do arguments here if you are not here to argument, but to be a troll with lame arguments. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Because the current system is already working well. Enough people find the current penalties harsh enough that they are discouraged from doing it, resulting in only a very small percentage of people suicide ganking. That is balanced. Also capsuleers aren't human, they've transcended the limits of mortality through technology. As capsuleers we're closer to the Borg than we are baseline humans Ofc you will say the current system is working, because you are a lame ganker abusing an outdated system to gain in massive profits for no risk and barly any work. Ofc you don't want that to be changed so you have to make some more efforts in your criminal activity. I'm not stupid if you think i'am that. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: If you've already provided the supporting evidence, why can't anybody find it? We know what you're saying, you've been saying the same damn thing for days, and it's still your opinion. Telling us something is so, does not make it so. You keep telling us that ganking is broken, when we look at it's working fine. What does appear to be broken is your understanding of the words opinion, subjective, objective, proof, fact, risk, reward, effort and balance, amongst other things. My evidences are in what i'm saying about how criminals should be treated as. A criminal shouldn't just be a naughty boy for 15 minutes and then be back doing same crimes over and over without facing more penalties. It's logic that criminals will face harsher penalties the more crimes they do. It's normal practice to do against criminals. Yes, it's also only your opiniopn that my idea wont work, but that's just because you are a ganker and don't want to make some more effort in your criminal activities to be able to get into high sec without problems. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 01:53:00 - [171] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Not bad. you forgot about the drop in sec status becoming being shoot on sight due to it, and all the other things that go with it. I'll give you 2.5/10 for including a partial truth. A drop in sec status wont prevent you in ANY types of form from undocking a new ship and gank someone. Sec status doesn't matter in this case. Again, you should work more for your criminal acts. But hey, ignorance is bliss. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: This is opinion, why is yours so much more important than anybody else's? No, it's a fact that a 15 minute naughty boy timer should be more than that when you as a ganker don't gain ANY penalties what so ever for what you are doing except for a 15 minute waiting game which isn't a penalty in the first place for you. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:06:11 - [172] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: But it's totally fine to set course, autopilot and AFK to victory. Because that's compelling game play that's totally sustainable. It's fine as it's part of the game. If a freighter pilot do afk traveling or does it actively, shouldn't prevent the gankers for gaining more penalties the more they gank. Again, why are you bringing in things that has nothing to do with the criminal system on how that works against gankers? Are we talking about that or are we talking about being afk or not? Hiasa Kite wrote: Because it is unnecessary. Why impose a system that attempts to slow down ganking activity when only a handful of profitable suicide ganks happen per day, anyway? It's not unnecessary when this only will go against those who do more gankings. Doing criminal acts alot shouldn't come cheap or easily. Do you understand that? Hiasa Kite wrote: A freighter carrying 5bil in goodies attracts ganker attention. That's correct. But like i have said, this has nothing to do with what you might find attractive to gank or not. This has only to do with how a system in EVE should treat gankers or criminal players who break the rules of high sec. The fact that you haven't figured this out yet is amusing. Hiasa Kite wrote: His webber escort didn't land webs in time, Mach pilot has bump tackle. Because a nano / bumping Machariel is extremely fast to bump a big ass freighter out of allignment? I know how fast that ship is. I fly a Machariel as a daily basis when i'm in PVP ops and so on. Hiasa Kite wrote: (Competent) antigankers arrive, prepared with ECM and counter bumping ships. They might make use of bookmarks and/or fast ships to create warp points on the freighter's current trajectory. The antigankers might be friends of the freighter, they might be asking for payment for their services, they might just be white knights........................... And alot of other nonsense that has nothing to do with how the criminal system against criminals should work independent of what you gank or how you gank. Yes, read over what i have said. You are not getting the point and are trolling by bringing in other nonsense crap that has nothing to do with what we are talking about. Go troll elsewhere. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:17:29 - [173] - Quote baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: I know how fast that ship is. I fly a Machariel as a daily basis when i'm in PVP ops and so on. Clearly you don't, there is no way a mach can get up to speed before a freighter can be webbed into warp aside from gross incompetence. Care to prove that? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:20:37 - [174] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Doing any one of those things will massively reduce the odds of failure. Hardly working your ass off. Again, we seem to be talking about frieghters, whose death require somewhere in the region of twenty people working together, scouting, gathering intel and of course, warping in and pressing F1 for the kill. You're attempting to claim that surviving ganks is the most difficult thing in EVE while perpetuating them is the easiest. Not so, they're pretty similar in the effort/difficulty versus reward ratio. LOL, the fact that you don't know that this system should be there to determine your success rate of doing the actual ganking is the whole point. If you want to have it easy ganking others alot of times, then you should work much more for it. If you don't work for your criminal actions, then you shouldn't expect to get a free pass into high sec easily. And the rest of you whining / crying is something i'm gonna ignore, because i have answered it a million times already. You don't even know what we are talking about, so no suprises there. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:40:08 - [175] - Quote Hiasa Kite wrote: Obligatory: Why? Because. It's been explained several times already. I'm not gonna spoonfeed you just because you are lazy reading what i have said. And again, the rest of your wall of text is nothing more than a lame try to sidetrack what my whole point is, so i'm not gonna bother to answer you more than this because you don't get my points in the first place. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:43:30 - [176] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Time to get a freighter into warp using duel webs is 2-3 seconds. Time to spool up the MWD on the mach and get up to speed tends to take little over one cycle of the MWD which is 10 seconds. That does not include the few seconds to align the battleship towards the freighter. This also assumes the battleship is within 10km of the target which is rarely will be. Distance can be anything up to 40km so times can and will be far higher to get a bump. Did you know that a bumping Machariel can use several tries to bump a freighter by just following him for several jumps hoping to land more nearer him when he uncloaks? And if you land 4km from him when he uncloaks, it's game over for him no matter how many webbers or alts you have with you to protect him. So again, a Machariel is all that's needed to ruin a freighter pilot for doing his job. And when you also takes into consideration on how many Machariels there are out there, then yeah, it's a mess for the freighter pilots. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 02:54:54 - [177] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Could but they don't. There is a reason why almost all freighter ganks happen in just a handful of systems. Oh, so it's actually more easy afterall to gank as they don't even have to go after the freighters for some jumps to have a better chance of getting them? Thanks for confirming it's easy to complete a gank. baltec1 wrote: So rare it might as well not happen. Its akin to not being able to cloak because that one ship on gate is withing 2km But the fact that this is also possible says something to. And specially as you say that they don't even have to follow freighters for some jumps to get them that way tells us all that it is in fact pretty easy to do the ganks. Again, you barely have to do any works at all to catch a freighter and gank it. It's wrong when you takes into the massive gains you get for doing that for little to nothing work and no risks what so ever. NightmareX wrote: baltec1 wrote: I literally just told you how this isn't true. You just said it without provinding evidences on that. [quote=Hiasa Kite]Obligatory: Why? Because.................... Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 03:08:24 - [178] - Quote baltec1 wrote: NightmareX wrote: Oh, so it's actually more easy afterall to gank as they don't even have to go after the freighters for some jumps to have a better chance of getting them? Thanks for confirming it's easy to complete a gank. Seems you have no idea how system security works either. NightmareX wrote: But the fact that this is also possible says something to. And specially as you say that they don't even have to follow freighters for some jumps to get them that way tells us all that it is in fact pretty easy to do the ganks. Again, you barely have to do any works at all to catch a freighter and gank it. It's wrong when you takes into the massive gains you get for doing that for little to nothing work and no risks what so ever. Its also possible to slignshot a phoenix between a Fortizars towers and get it stuck there when you cyno in a gang of dreads. Its just not going to happen. If you follow a freighter from Perimeter / Jita to a 0.6 sec system 3 jumps away, you will have a much higher chance of completeing the gank as you are in a system with lower sec status that means lower Concord response time. So yes, i do know how system security works bro. And just because it's a low chance of it happening (with the Phoenix example over), shouldn't prevent the game from working better for everyone when it actually happens. Just because there might be a low chance of something happening, shouldn't prevent CCP from improving small bits of EVE here and there. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 03:14:08 - [179] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: More ganking means the game working better for everyone. So buff it. Not without more penatlies or consequences the more you do it. No one is talking about making you do lesser ganks. We are only talking about making you work harder for your ganks the more you do it. Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 753	Posted - 2017.03.02 03:18:51 - [180] - Quote baltec1 wrote: When you lock people out of highsec that means less ganking. So you get locked out of high sec for working harder the more ganks you do? Working harder for your crimes doesn't prevent you from entering any high sec systems at all. Or are you telling me that you are stupid and doesn't understand the difference from making things harder to lock something out? baltec1 wrote: So you just ignored what I said then, good to know. Says the smartass who are ignoring all of my points about the crime system on how it works and how it should be improved. baltec1 wrote: Why is this change needed? Because no risk = no reward & alot of risk = alot of reward. That's how EVE is and should be. Ganking has no risk in it's current form for what you do for the amount of reward you get. Thus it needs to be changed / improved for the better. Is there anything more you want to know? Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos: 1: Asteroid Madness 2: Clash of the Empires 3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

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