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Veyreuth
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
10
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Posted - 2017.03.02 16:43:45 -
[1] - Quote
A common point in this thread is that war decades create content, and corporations that receive war decks should be grateful for the content and fight. I don't think people who made these points would feel the same way if there was a mechanic that allowed players to force other players to mine or build stuff. Mining and building stuff is content, but if you're not interested in either, you probably wouldn't be interested in a game mechanic that allows other players to force you to do either on their terms. You might even lose interest in the game, because you log in to do X, but are forced to do Y.
Don't take me the wrong way, there is a place for war decs and high sec shouldn't be safe. At the same time, if I'm a miner in a mining corporation and that's the joy that I get out of the game, and I'm given the choice between PvP in a war dec or staying docked, you need to appreciate that neither option is agreeable... just as being forced to mine or run industry jobs isn't agreeable if you want to PvP with your time. |
Veyreuth
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
11
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Posted - 2017.03.02 18:50:50 -
[2] - Quote
One thing that bothers me about wars is that the vast majority of them are just sanctioned piracy. It's so rarely about two corporations butting heads. With so many high sec activities devalued to encourage players to go to low/null, I can think of very few pieces of real estate worth fighting over. With so few wars about conflict over territory/resources and so many about making ISK (Piracy), the only reason to declare war is to keep the taps flowing for piracy.
Think about some of the common war dec groups:
P I R A T - 104 active wars
Vendetta Mercenary Group - 151 active wars
The Marmite Collective - 95 active wars
To me, declaring war on a corporation should be a big deal, and declaring war on an alliance should be somewhat extraordinary. Instead, it just feels kind of "cheap" that one group can maintain so many wars at one time. There should be some level of thought involved with declaring war beyond the opportunity to hit juicy targets.
If I could tweak it, I would make each additional war a copr/alliance wants to declare beyond the first (active/future war) cost an exponentially greater amount. Also the more often a corporation/alliance receives a war dec, the more expensive war decs against that corporation should be... that way corporations on the frequent receiving end of war decs get some sort of breathing room. These mechanics will force pirate corps/alliances to put more thought into who they're declaring against and prevent corporations from being long term punching bags. It would mean that pirate corps/alliances spend more time scouting out a potential target rather than just jamming wars on a bunch in hopes a few will be juicy, which makes for more interesting game play.
I'm also reminded about how there should be encouragement for people to go to low/null to profit/go about their business... this mentality seems to justify making high sec less hospitable. Think about this... if it is as easy as it is to declare war and be a pirate in high sec, where is the incentive for these PvPers to go to low/null? It goes both ways.
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Veyreuth
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
13
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Posted - 2017.03.03 02:15:35 -
[3] - Quote
Amojin wrote:Veyreuth wrote:One thing that bothers me about wars is that the vast majority of them are just sanctioned piracy. This is probably what bothers the majority of people who 'work' for a living. It's always been this way, in life, though - once you build something up, someone else has to come along and try to take it.
Just to clarify... I'm not making commentary about piracy being bad. My point is, why is it that piracy is the only profession that is easier and more lucrative in high-sec? Why work the pipes in low sec or camp a gate in null if all you have to do is war dec a bunch of corps and sit in Jita? Why do pirates need mechanics to make piracy easier when there are already laughably easy mechanics to pop ships in high sec before Concord arrives? |
Veyreuth
EVE University
Ivy League
27
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Posted - 2017.03.09 01:38:29 -
[4] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote: ... Other conflicts have had amazingly tiny 'ante' on the table, yet rapidly escalated in scope and number of participants, but there has to be some ante on the table to get people to buy in. Maybe it's not safety, maybe its safety for small period of time, maybe its a CONCORD fee for a 'losing' a war of aggression, reparations if you will, but there needs to be some ante on the table from the part of the deccers.
You had me nodding my head the whole way through, however I'm unsure about the whole idea of 'ante'. I agree there needs to be a goal and an incentive to fight back, yet I would think the end result of such a mechanic would be for the alliance/corp that declares war to target weaker (safer) opponents rather than one that might fight back. Let's never forget that for the most part, these are wars for profit. |
Veyreuth
EVE University
Ivy League
28
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Posted - 2017.03.09 19:17:51 -
[5] - Quote
Might blocking an aggressing corporation/alliance from docking at an NPC station for the duration of a war be part of a solution? That would increase their risk. That would give defending corporations/alliances a reason to fight, knowing that the aggressor can't hide if things go south. |
Veyreuth
EVE University
Ivy League
29
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Posted - 2017.03.09 20:33:31 -
[6] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Veyreuth wrote:Might blocking an aggressing corporation/alliance from docking at an NPC station for the duration of a war be part of a solution? That would increase their risk. That would give defending corporations/alliances a reason to fight, knowing that the aggressor can't hide if things go south. If the defenders are unwilling to fight the aggressors ships what makes you think they will take on a citadel?
The majority of defenders won't attack a citadel, but there's a few that might under the right circumstances.
The point is to expose the attacker more if they're camping an NPC station. |
Veyreuth
EVE University
Ivy League
29
|
Posted - 2017.03.11 21:27:39 -
[7] - Quote
What if every war an alliance/corp declares results in standings drop with CONCORD for every member... if they fail to keep grinding up their standings, they lose their ability to declare war. It doesn't take the mechanic away, but it does force alliances and corporations to use the tool more strategically. |
Veyreuth
EVE University
Ivy League
30
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 13:46:39 -
[8] - Quote
I'm curious... how many days a year is your average corporation of 20+ active members at war? 40+? 100+? In my experience, the days not at war in a month can be counted on one hand. It seems to lose its relevance when it's persistent. I think most people, fresh players included, could last a week here and there. Most players can train up a hauling alt. Most players can adjust their habits to stay relatively safe. The question is, is the system working as intended if most active corporations are at war most of the time? Also, why fight at all as a defender if it doesn't make a difference in forcing a peace? |
Veyreuth
EVE University
Ivy League
30
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 22:22:34 -
[9] - Quote
I'm not sure if you can put the burden of PvP not working on people hiding in NPC corporations. The harder you make it for people who don't want to fight to avoid a fight, the more likely they choose to unsubscribe. I'm sure there are people who think it's just fine if they leave, but it's a less interesting game with less players. One of the most amazing things about EVE is that it accommodates so many play styles. If you like scrapping with other players, low sec, null sec, and wormholes are all very good options. Not every one is after that experience. That doesn't mean high sec should be without danger. No matter what incentives you offer and what you do to force an engagement, you're just not going to get compelling content from people who don't want to participate. |
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