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projectile guns: what am i doing wrong?

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VanNostrum Cataphract Securities	Posted - 2007.05.04 11:05:00 - [31] Well, if you want to tank AND deal damage, train minmatar cruisers III and get a minmatar battlecruiser You can tank&dps better in a Cyclone or Hurricane. Just try not to lose them during missions and get your gunnery skills up.
AntonioBanderas	Posted - 2007.05.04 13:10:00 - [32] Originally by: VanNostrum Well, if you want to tank AND deal damage, train minmatar cruisers III and get a minmatar battlecruiser You can tank&dps better in a Cyclone or Hurricane. Just try not to lose them during missions and get your gunnery skills up. i don't have the skills yet. i've forgotten that rats don't pod, so my implants are safe. i think i'll get my self a rifter (they are, after all, cheap as chips) and get some expirience.
Lrrp Minmatar Gallente Mercantile Exchange	Posted - 2007.05.04 13:38:00 - [33] Also in a Rupture, look at the 220 vulcans. With a combination of 220's and missiles I could take down 0.0 BS's. Trick is to AB in and orbit close.
AntonioBanderas	Posted - 2007.05.04 13:52:00 - [34] now i'm torn between using autocannons and artilery... oh sweet pain really, dunno what to do, i gues this weekend i'll be ******* around and testing a lot... I gues I'll take AC for dps, since it's better for pvp than huge alpha with artillery... (please correct me if i'm wrong)
VanNostrum Cataphract Securities	Posted - 2007.05.04 16:29:00 - [35] Edited by: VanNostrum on 04/05/2007 16:27:52 Well for ultimate exceitement train for Assault ships and go for a Wolf I don't enjoy anything more than doing all leve 3 missions in my wolf with 4 AC2
AntonioBanderas	Posted - 2007.05.06 11:04:00 - [36] so, AC it is. could you explain a bit the tactics for AC fight? As i see it, i need the way to get in FAST, do samoe damage, and get out. All the time i should be able to tank damage. SO, i need good tanking skills and microwarp drive, becouse AB is to slow, right?
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy	Posted - 2007.05.06 11:08:00 - [37] true - however mwd will not work in deadspace so you will only be able to use it for some of the missions... - I'm a nice guy!! and OMG I love Team Tuxford for the speedbalancing...
AntonioBanderas	Posted - 2007.05.06 15:02:00 - [38] ok, so i did some testing (playing) and came to this conclusion: AC is good only against bigger ships (i guess). smaller ships i can't get down with AC. i'll try smaller caliber, though... Artilery, on the other side, ROCKS. but i'd really like to try that AC DPS fest :)
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.06 16:41:00 - [39] Originally by: AntonioBanderas ok, so i did some testing (playing) and came to this conclusion: AC is good only against bigger ships (i guess). smaller ships i can't get down with AC. i'll try smaller caliber, though... Artilery, on the other side, ROCKS. but i'd really like to try that AC DPS fest :) Put a tracking computer or two on the ship. You should have no issues hitting smaller ships at 5-8km with the mid-sized guns of that class (ie, 220mm ACs on a cruiser or BC). Now if you are expecting to hit frigates at 2km with your 800mm ACs on your battle ship you might have an issue :) But that is the reason that almsot all matari ships can mount missile racks and also have drone bays. Plus you need to move and turn with guns to keep your transversal down, you can't just sit there like you are flying a Drake and spew missiles. Once you get to BC/BB levels then missiles and drones on the frigates once they get to under 8km, guns on everything else. And train up Motion Prediction. 25% bonus to tracking at level 5 will make your guns come to life at close range. Combined with a tracking comp or two the only thing you will miss are interceptors at point blank range. <-----------> Keiron: Quote on PvE/PvP [i]PvE and/or PvP is not something that appeals to
AntonioBanderas	Posted - 2007.05.06 17:52:00 - [40] Edited by: AntonioBanderas on 06/05/2007 17:49:17 thanks. i was playing and became quite good at tracking. I've put one named gyro, one named inertial stabilizer and named AB and had quite decent speed of orbit. Plus Webber and there was no problems. One thing i didn't try was using bigger AC, since I was testing tracking and was using 180mm caliber, and was dealing pathetic amounts of damage. I'll just have to try with 220 or even 420. The thing is, when I was using missiles and Arty, i had distance. Now i do not, so there is really no quick way to get out of the fray if things get bad. So, i really need to get my tanking skills up. During the day I got to idea to equip hurricane with shield tank and then gank it in low slots. And use AC. For that, i would need some shield skills (which i have) instead of armor skills (which i don't have) and some navigation skills. That could hold water, right? All this is quit new to me, close combat is much different than long range...
VanNostrum Cataphract Securities Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.05.06 18:16:00 - [41] Edited by: VanNostrum on 06/05/2007 18:14:46 Edited by: VanNostrum on 06/05/2007 18:13:16 Higher calibers have worse tracking than lower calibers, so 180mm is better than 220 and 425 trackingwise. Artillery have even worse tracking. The pathetic dmg you claim to have with AC might be cause you're not orbiting at correct range. You should get good hits between optimal range and optimal+(falloff/2). Also, damage from AC might be lower than artillery, but damage over time is better, maybe you're getting confused with that. Oh, and Hurricane is better armor tanked than shield for missions. edited for typos
AntonioBanderas	Posted - 2007.05.07 07:50:00 - [42] reading the forums i had a revelation. AC is better for pvp, while arty rocks for missions. AC is good when you can concentrate on one (or few) targets, while for missions, where i have like minimally 20 targets, one needs arty and pick them of from a far. thoughts on that, anyone?
Yali Puppets on Steroids	Posted - 2007.05.07 07:54:00 - [43] http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g25.asp This guide should clear up your issues. ---------- Kill them all - God will recongnize his own.
AntonioBanderas	Posted - 2007.05.07 10:10:00 - [44] Originally by: Yali http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g25.asp This guide should clear up your issues. oh, i've read that guide several times. Also, in my previous post i've said that i have NO more issues with tracking and hitting things. My issue at the moment is with tanking when using AC, becouse if I want to get close, I must endure hefty amount of punishment, especially if there are lots of rats.
AntonioBanderas	Posted - 2007.05.07 15:19:00 - [45] oh one more thing. if i'm using ac, i need to get close, fast. and unless i'm REALLY fast, first rat using missiles (god forbid rockets) will eat me in a second. One more reson to use arty for missions/ratting? Thoughts?
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.07 15:59:00 - [46] Artillery works great for missions and ratting, especially when combined with a launcher or two for when the small ships get really close. ACs need to get really close (average medium ACs range is about 12km for a 50% hit), but if you can train your gunnery skills high enough to run T2 guns and ammo you can get that out to about 18-19km. Another option (which some people will scream at me about, but works) is to start training for T2 guns (gunnery 5, small projectile 5, medium projectile 5, small ac/artillery depending on your needs) and once you can mount them put 6 280mm Artillery (about 180k current price each - cheap) on the ship while you train the medium guns skills. The small artillery can hit those close, fast frigates and still do over 120 damage a hit with a 7.5 second cycle time with T1 ammo and a range of some 20-24km. That will gives you the grid to put 2 heavy launchers on the ship even with crappy skills; since you know missiles that will give you a nice DPS boost. Its capable of doing any level 3 mission like that and gives you excellent slaughtering of frigates that are hard to hit for you now. When you finally get your T2 medium gun skills you can then shift over to medium ACs or Artillery and your DPS goes up a lot, but you will sacrifice some tank to mount them. Don't worry, by that time you will be used to the ship and not miss the slightly higher tanking <-----------> Keiron: Quote on PvE/PvP [i]PvE and/or PvP is not something that appeals to
ForeverKnight Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.07 16:47:00 - [47] Edited by: ForeverKnight on 07/05/2007 16:46:27 Hitting small ships with AC's is very skill dependent. Just for starters, you should have Motion Prediction and Trajectory Analysis up to 4. After you have that, go for Navigation skills. The more agile you are in a Minmatar ship, the better your guns can hit while you maneuver around with manual controls. (For frigate sized ships a good strategy is to MWD or AB within 10km, then web and turn so that you fly directly away from them while firing, and this is agility dependent.) That being said, most heavier minmatar ships have drone bays capable of at least fitting 5 light drones, so training drones 5 and drone interfacing 3/4 will make your life much easier, use your heavier guns to shoot down large targets, and use drones to take down frigs. Failing that, 90% web + 220mm Vulcan AC == one very dead frigate, just don't try to orbit. I fly around in a Hurricane and have no difficulty at all hitting frigate sized NPC's in 0.0 without a webber, but mostly I use light drones for that. Another thing that you might be doing wrong is orbiting. With Medium AC, don't orbit frigates, and even cruisers, just hit the approach button to minimize transversal. For battleships, orbit at around optimal to avoid their guns. Oh and in reply to the Arty/AC, use Artillery for missions, because you can't MWD in deadspace good strategy for Arty is to draw aggro, then AB away from the ships as needed to keep them at the edge of your optimal. Kill the fast frigates first, then work on the cruisers. For 0.0 ratting, use Autocannons, get in close to the large ships and orbit and pound away at them. (Use Phased Plasma ammo for Sanshas/Blood/Guristas/Serpentis, and EMP for Angels)
Goewyn Ravenclaw Minmatar Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.05.07 21:16:00 - [48] Originally by: AntonioBanderas Gunnery: 3 Medium Projectile Turret: 2 Motion Prediction: 3 Rapid Firing: 3 Sharpshooter: 3 Small Projectile Turret: 3 Weapon Upgrades: 1 + some hybrid skills, not imporant for this discusion. I'm using Rupture. I've also slapped some named gyro. I play missions, but i was just belting around, testing my setup. more support skills needed :) Surgical strike for the extra damage, and motion prediction really wants to be at least 4 if not 5. If you are using artillery, rather than a painter I would use a tracking comp. or two. You don't have to wait for the painter to cycle then. With ac's use 'Approach to ' for the bigger guns, 425's, and orbit on the dual 180's. And as has already been mentioned, webs are your friend :) AC Tempest with 650 II's and dual webs hits anything I've been up against. Spider Drones and mwd frigs included. ______________________________ A closed mouth inserts no foot
Goewyn Ravenclaw Minmatar Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.05.07 21:23:00 - [49] Originally by: ForeverKnight Oh and in reply to the Arty/AC, use Artillery for missions, because you can't MWD in deadspace good strategy for Arty is to draw aggro, then AB away from the ships as needed to keep them at the edge of your optimal. Artillery works but so can AC's. Personally I get bored with arties and switch to AC's till I get bored with them. Pros for AC's are loot is mch easier to get, (all cans are going to be relatively close), cons are you won't be aligned for a swift exit. Pro's for arties are it's great to 1 volley a cruiser >:) Cons are loot is spread out and you tend to need more support mods, (tracking comps, sensor boosters etc) which can eat into your tank/gank setup depending on wether you armour or shield tank. Originally by: ForeverKnight (Use Phased Plasma ammo for Sanshas/Blood/Guristas/Serpentis, and EMP for Angels) Wouldn't use EMP on Angels, personally found it better to use fusion. Prefer a little more range and it's pretty effective. For ex, AC maelstrom ate a Gist Malakim in under a minute earlier today :) ______________________________ A closed mouth inserts no foot
ForeverKnight Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.07 21:52:00 - [50] Originally by: Goewyn Ravenclaw Wouldn't use EMP on Angels, personally found it better to use fusion. Prefer a little more range and it's pretty effective. For ex, AC maelstrom ate a Gist Malakim in under a minute earlier today :) I goofed, Fusion is more effective vs angels.

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