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Petition : Let Command Modules Work In Warp!

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Scordite	Posted - 2007.05.03 10:50:00 - [31] Originally by: smallgreenblur DCII? Yeah, but with the base resists of claymore shields and two invuls, you only need 1 resist rig (kin) to make the tank strong against all damage types.. What's in your other rig slot that's preventing you from fitting the CCC that will allow you to perma-run 3x warfare links + 2x invul? ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.03 11:25:00 - [32] I don't have rigs on my claymores as yet, I'm keeping them as cheap as I can. At the moment I think I lose about 30 mil per ship, 2 rigs would bring that up by a fair bit. I can see your point, but I can also see the op's point. Minmatar are active shield tankers, caldari are passive - surely the former should have more cap and better regen than the latter? Especially when minmatar also fit for speed... sgb
Scordite	Posted - 2007.05.03 11:52:00 - [33] Originally by: smallgreenblur I can see your point, but I can also see the op's point. Minmatar are active shield tankers, caldari are passive - surely the former should have more cap and better regen than the latter? Especially when minmatar also fit for speed... Why when it's not needed? Yes, you have to pay for a good setup, that includes kin resist rig and CCC. Passive shield tank is nearly worthless on an unrigged nighthawk compared to a rigged one as well. The only thing that really bothers me about the claymore is the tight cpu, basically forcing you to use dg invuls and a 170 cpu booster (dg/gist), as well as best named DCU instead of tech2 to make everything fit. ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
Meriatalantra TerraDyne Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.03 15:34:00 - [34] I'm going to clarify my original post a little. I meant to post that Command Modules on fleet command ships ONLY should be allowed to work in warp. I reckon that for the extreme extra training time it has to be worth a little extra something other than a very paltry bonus to module power. The main issue I have is with roaming gangs. If a command ship is with a roaming gang and has to stay static in order to spam bonuses to its gang mates then it slows down the gang in total when the command ship then has to catch up. This means that command ships in fast moving skirmish fleets fleets of 10-40 members give probably about as many drawbacks as they give bonuses what with the disruption to fleet movement. And to comment to other posts, I find that running my claymore with 3 skirmish mods activated and a meta-tech 1 cap recharger only (no PDU or rigs) allows me to sustain 50% cap easily, which allows me limited ability to self repair if required. I recognise I am running as a support ship and so don't mind not having cap to burn, so if you are having cap problems maybe you should look at your other skills or your loadouts?
Tassill Minmatar GREY COUNCIL Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.03 15:44:00 - [35] As some one pointed out in my first senario the gang mods didnt realy give much of an advantae.. it was just ganking some npc'r. But how about another common senario Your fleet is taking on a hostile fleet. You have all your support camping the station they use and the fleet ships, includin u in your command ship are at a ss alligned to warp in when the fighting starts. You are flying a claymore with skermis mods on and your fc has orderd all the intys to set orbits to 25 km so they cant get nossed and all support hac's etc to be ready to mwd out of harms way. The hostile fleet warps in on the station and your support ships start to tackle. Fc orders fleet ships to warp to a covert op at optimals. Now you are stuck... if you warp in your support ships will loose their speed and all the tacklers will be out of scram range..... what to do I guess you are happy to miss out on a lot of killmails... i am not
Scordite	Posted - 2007.05.03 15:49:00 - [36] Originally by: Meriatalantra And to comment to other posts, I find that running my claymore with 3 skirmish mods activated and a meta-tech 1 cap recharger only (no PDU or rigs) allows me to sustain 50% cap easily, which allows me limited ability to self repair if required. I recognise I am running as a support ship and so don't mind not having cap to burn, so if you are having cap problems maybe you should look at your other skills or your loadouts? I'm assuming max skills. The difference is probably that both me and sgb fit mwd, reducing your cap size, and thus your cap/sec.. To the point where you need 4 power diag II or 3 power diag II and a CCC to run links + 2x invul. ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.03 17:23:00 - [37] Originally by: Tassill As some one pointed out in my first senario the gang mods didnt realy give much of an advantae.. it was just ganking some npc'r. But how about another common senario Your fleet is taking on a hostile fleet. You have all your support camping the station they use and the fleet ships, includin u in your command ship are at a ss alligned to warp in when the fighting starts. You are flying a claymore with skermis mods on and your fc has orderd all the intys to set orbits to 25 km so they cant get nossed and all support hac's etc to be ready to mwd out of harms way. The hostile fleet warps in on the station and your support ships start to tackle. Fc orders fleet ships to warp to a covert op at optimals. Now you are stuck... if you warp in your support ships will loose their speed and all the tacklers will be out of scram range..... what to do I guess you are happy to miss out on a lot of killmails... i am not What setup are you using on a claymore to get killmails? wtb whatever it is ^^ Personally I would just warp in on top of the fleet and deprive my intys of the bonus for the 4 or 5 seconds it takes to get there from a jump point, or even use my command ship as bait since with a decent tank setup a few bs won't hurt you. Apart from anything else I am a FC so when I am in my command ship I tend not to really worry about what my guns/drones are shooting and focus more on what the rest of the gang should be aiming at. If I'm pew-pewing too then great, if not then I'm not that bothered. sgb
dabster Minmatar Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.05.03 19:04:00 - [38] /signed PLEASE let me run the mods while warping As for the "make sure you come out of warp at the same time" - thats just silly. For teh 'no sayers, answer me this: Why SHOULDN'T gangmods be able to run while warping? ___________________________ Trust In Rust!
Scordite	Posted - 2007.05.03 19:15:00 - [39] Edited by: Scordite on 03/05/2007 19:11:00 Originally by: dabster For teh 'no sayers, answer me this: Why SHOULDN'T gangmods be able to run while warping? As has been said several times now, you'd be able to provide bonuses and effecting the outcome of a fight while being 99.9% invulnerable by being in warp constantly. Not having to worry about getting shot means you can fit command processors and co-cpu instead of tank etc, which means a vulture for example could run 7 links. That's a hell of a lot of bonuses. ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.05.03 21:38:00 - [40] Originally by: Heikki Originally by: Meriatalantra Isupport for a fleet .. stay static I reckon thats good for balance (gives something to do for the cov op pilots of the enemy fleet). So gang modules not working during warp seems fine. Not so sure about cap usage; kind of feel that Fleet ships are supposed to be able to run gang mods and semi-passive (==hardeners) tank well (and fail if you also like to do other things like MWD or tackle). To a point on warping, tho all of us who pilot command ships would like this, I guess it could be seen as a smidgin overpowered. What is underpowered for sure is the capacitor. There are two things a command ship should have, That's the gang modules and a strong tank. To have both you need more capacitor. Now if you compare their tier1 battlecruisers capacitor and the command ships, you will see that their capacitor is identical, no change what so ever. Basically this means that at the very least the fleet command ships need more capacitor, or gang assist modules need a capacitor reduction skill. Now heres the thing, if you are so inclined to fit ewar and a mwd then so be it, in the end the aimt of a command ship is to survive. If someone wants to use it in close combat and risk loosing it and taking the blame for possibly causing your corp/alliance to loose in that battle. Then so be it. Still I don't want a drastic increase in capacitor, A small increase to all command ships capacitors and then also a skill for gang mod cap reduction would be the best option. Back to the warping, This may sound strange but I feel that gang warfare bonuses even if the module is running, shouldn't be given to fleet members outside of 1000Km or so. I don't like the way that command ships and even carriers, sit out of the battle and still give great boosts to the battle. Its not very exciting either for the pilots. BTW, Do gang module bonuses work if your sitting in a pos shield? I have not bothered to check!?!? lol.

Angus McLean Gallente Divinity Trials	Posted - 2007.05.03 21:56:00 - [41] Scordite has the point. If it was allowed during warp, you would be mostly impossible to catch. Thus taking off your tank and adding gang mods. Then you could fit something jacked up in your lows like nano's and warp even faster. I just dont see how this could be implemented without ruining the idea of Command Ships totally..
Tassill Minmatar GREY COUNCIL Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.04 02:09:00 - [42] Edited by: Tassill on 04/05/2007 02:08:35 Originally by: Scordite Edited by: Scordite on 03/05/2007 19:11:00 Originally by: dabster For teh 'no sayers, answer me this: Why SHOULDN'T gangmods be able to run while warping? As has been said several times now, you'd be able to provide bonuses and effecting the outcome of a fight while being 99.9% invulnerable by being in warp constantly. Not having to worry about getting shot means you can fit command processors and co-cpu instead of tank etc, which means a vulture for example could run 7 links. That's a hell of a lot of bonuses. So you are saying that the titans command bonus shouldnt work whilst it is in warp? Also the point you make is a moot one... people allready do this, they sit in pos's so as you argue this is an unfair use of gang mods. I suppose you think ccp should make it like carries launching fighters so that gang mods can not be active whilst a command ship is inside a pos shield.
Scordite	Posted - 2007.05.04 02:24:00 - [43] Angus, the lows would be co-proc IIs to fit all the command processors and links Originally by: Tassill So you are saying that the titans command bonus shouldnt work whilst it is in warp? Also the point you make is a moot one... people allready do this, they sit in pos's so as you argue this is an unfair use of gang mods. I suppose you think ccp should make it like carries launching fighters so that gang mods can not be active whilst a command ship is inside a pos shield. How many fully t2 fitted command ships do you get for the price of a titan again? Also, I can see how having your gang be stronger in systems where you have a POS is a problem. That would mean you have some advantage when on your home turf, or if you have established a forward base somewhere for an assault. Shocking. It's definately as bad as any gang, in any system, any time they wish, having a potential 7! gang mod bonuses running on them indefinately and unstoppably through the use of an alt. Yeah. ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
Tassill Minmatar GREY COUNCIL Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.04 02:39:00 - [44] Edited by: Tassill on 04/05/2007 02:41:59 Originally by: Scordite Angus, the lows would be co-proc IIs to fit all the command processors and links How many fully t2 fitted command ships do you get for the price of a titan again? Also, I can see how having your gang be stronger in systems where you have a POS is a problem. That would mean you have some advantage when on your home turf, or if you have established a forward base somewhere for an assault. Shocking. It's definately as bad as any gang, in any system, any time they wish, having a potential 7! gang mod bonuses running on them indefinately and unstoppably through the use of an alt. Yeah. I think you ment to type cant.. not can... correct me it i am wrong So you think its ok to have a command ship that can give out 7 x bonus's when it is in its "home" system. But a command ship that is roaming with a gang shouldnt be able to..... Mean while the command ship in its home system is free from any danger at all but the one roaming around the area will get nuked at the first gate camp it comes to as it has no tank what so ever. On top of that their is a high chance that if it is making dodgy ss's as it moves it will be caugt quickly by any half decent prober.. especialy as it is going to cap out every coupld of warps. Edit : The point i am trying to make is that any ship without cloak is far from invunerable when warping from ss to ss and that the 7 command mod command ship is realy only use full in a situation which u seem to think is acceptable. It would not be a good ship to have in a roaming gang as it is not even able to defend its self or tank long enough for the rest of your gang to come assist.
SwitchBl4d3 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.05.04 09:44:00 - [45] ok, now drive at 100mph on the motorcycle of your choice, whilst boiling the kettle and making a cup of tea. Feasable? nope! Originally by: Stavros BUNGLE IN JUNGLE? J tHX OMG YEAH CHICKEN WINGS K? LOLLER SKATESWIHT LUBE K? MIUOINKEYT!!!
Scordite	Posted - 2007.05.04 12:15:00 - [46] Originally by: Tassill I think you ment to type cant.. not can... correct me it i am wrong You are, sort of. Was being sarcastic. Anyways.. How about warfare links switching off at, say, 90%+ of your max warp speed? That way they never turn off in short warps, and not for quite so long on longer ones. Seems like a decent compromise. The warp-around 7 (maybe 6 to allow for some cap and agility mods) link alt will be a lot harder to manage and keep safe, while real command ship pilots would have more up time on giving bonuses while warping. Shrug. ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
dabster Minmatar Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.05.04 15:48:00 - [47] Who the hell cares if a commandship would be able to constantly warp around to boost??? Does anybody SERIOUSLY thinks that would be an issue? If anybody wants to stay out of the battle, not being able to call targets and not doing any dps, let him? As also have been said, a person that is 'home' can hug a pos with a full rack of processors and gangmods, why the hell should the aggressor be crippled by not being able to warp? Its not logic even the slightest ffs. ___________________________ Trust In Rust!
Meriatalantra TerraDyne Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.04 18:32:00 - [48] Originally by: SwitchBl4d3 ok, now drive at 100mph on the motorcycle of your choice, whilst boiling the kettle and making a cup of tea. Feasable? nope! Show me a motorcycle with a cranial link to a rider submerged in amniotic fluid and I will! Of course, it may not ride so well IN SPACE.


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