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Vasiliyan
AVALON FOUNDATION
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Posted - 2007.05.02 13:35:00 -
[1]
The new dev blog on hiding belts and "tactical envrionments" got me thinking:
At the moment, defending a mining op of barges is almost totally useless.
Attackers can warp in, pop them before they can warp out, and leave again.
Logistics is useless to save them because they have so little HP. Tanked mining
ops made up of carriers and battleships can do this, but mine so much less.
As a result, we get non-fights: people watch local and warp out / log off at
the slightest sign of any possible danger. This isn't fun.
Proposal: ship-linked deployable shield generators.
You would get a high hitpoint shield covering your barges. Like a POS shield, they can't be targetted nor blasted with AOE weapons into the field. Like a POS shield, things inside it can't target ships, but we'll allow them to target rocks and mine in peace.
Overpowered? Let's give it a disadvantage: you can't warp out of it either. Deploy one of these things and you're committed to staying there. Let's also make the warp interdiction effect last a little (15 seconds?) after the bubble goes down, and trigger the 15 minute timer in case people log off.
What's the ship-linked part?
In deadspace missions, gates are locked until you've shot your way through the guards. I wanted to bring that element into PvP encounters. The module that generates these shields must be fitted on a ship other than a mining barge (however NOT linked to a specific ship type like warfare links). Destroying that ship, or it leaving the grid, running out of cap, or cloaking, immediately collapses the field. This means the defenders can tank the hell out of that ship, and suddenly there is a good role for logistics in PvP.
(Possible refinement: multiple generators combining from other ships to increase strength and provide redundancy)
Who is allowed into the shield?
I feel that hostiles and ships carrying the generators shouldn't be allowed
into the shield. Perhaps limit it to gang members.
Which slot should the module take up and how hard should it be to fit?
Not sure; I feel it ought to be possible to put it on a regular frigate to make
it accessible. It shouldn't have onerous skill requirements either, but nor
should it be trivially available to alts. Make it like the cyno generator in
this regard?
Fuel for the shield?
Possibly - am open to suggestions on this one.
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Gamesguy
Amarr
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.05.02 23:32:00 -
[2]
Use Ewar ships?
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Vasiliyan
AVALON FOUNDATION
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Posted - 2007.05.03 16:42:00 -
[3]
Using ewar ships requires that you lock and damp/jam all the enemy before any of them can fire the first volley. Good luck with that.
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Sirius Problem
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.03 17:59:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Sirius Problem on 03/05/2007 17:56:51
 Originally by: Vasiliyan
At the moment, defending a mining op of barges is almost totally useless. Attackers can warp in, pop them before they can warp out, and leave again.
Bring your own defenders. Combat ships with scrams, webbers, etc. That's what a mining op security force is all about. Do you think a pirate in a tricked-out combat ship is going to suicide it against a security force for a mining barge kill? Not likely.
If you can't muster the forces to defend your operations, then you're mining in the wrong place.
Originally by: Vasiliyan
As a result, we get non-fights: people watch local and warp out / log off at the slightest sign of any possible danger. This isn't fun.
No, it is not fun. But the situation is that miners want the good ore without risk, and are too lazy, or don't have the resources, to bring a proper security force with them. The game is about co-operation. Involve security forces and it would be a whole lot more fun for everyone.
Oh yes, and nerf local. :)
----
Some people say I have a bad attitude. Those people are stupid.
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Christopher Dalran
Gallente
Deadly Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.03 21:11:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 03/05/2007 21:12:58
Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 03/05/2007 21:11:07
Keep an eye on local, if a bunch of ships that arent friendly warp in then leave the belt immediatly.
Other than that Ewar is more than adequite to protect a mining group, you just cant do this if there are too many ships which is why you keep an eye on local.
The other alternative is to bring a large enough combat force that would require the pirates to sacrifice their ships to destroy mining barges. This is not cost effective and t1 barges arent expensive and t2 barges tank too well to pop if there is a half competent force guarding them.
Also consider making the Barges carry around EC-300 drones instead of light combat drones, Individually they might not do alot but they will save a barges ass from a frigate tackler or an interceptor. Your barges should have room to fit ECM's of their own aswell which is completly possible with good skills and no mining mods.
You can also rig your barges out with I-stabs and Nano structures so that they can turn and warp quickly if need be.
-------------------------------
C.D's Formula for success
-------------------------------
Credit Card = Game Time Card
Gametime Card = ISK
Therefore Credit Card = ISK.
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Dryson Bennington
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Posted - 2007.05.03 21:29:00 -
[6]
what about deployable defense platforms. Each platform would be able to anchor four defense turrets. Each turret would have four slots of of a single type of weapon, railgun, blasters, beams. The turret could also employ scanner jammers, warp inhibitors/scramblers, ect with the three slots left for weapons. But only one type of weapon as stated above, would be able to be employed. A small portion of the turret cargo space could be used to store ore or salvage. Each turret would employ a battleship sized shield with built in armor and hull repair capabilities.
Range would be increased with a turret range increase skill along with an upgradeable power amplifier
to increase the weapon system's range. Inital range of a turret would be 35k being able to be upgraded to 50k.
If a pirate player enters into the zone of a turret the turret will automatically open fire. The player would still need to skat the NPC rats though.
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Vasiliyan
AVALON FOUNDATION
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Posted - 2007.05.04 10:27:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Christopher Dalran
Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 03/05/2007 21:12:58
Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 03/05/2007 21:11:07
Keep an eye on local, if a bunch of ships that arent friendly warp in then leave the belt immediatly.
Other than that Ewar is more than adequite to protect a mining group, you just cant do this if there are too many ships which is why you keep an eye on local.
Indeed. I was trying to suggest a change to the game mechanics that made local less safety-critical, so that it might be nerfed (as many people seem to want)
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
Frontier Trade League
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Posted - 2007.05.04 10:47:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Sirius Problem
Edited by: Sirius Problem on 03/05/2007 17:56:51
Originally by: Vasiliyan
At the moment, defending a mining op of barges is almost totally useless. Attackers can warp in, pop them before they can warp out, and leave again.
Bring your own defenders. Combat ships with scrams, webbers, etc. That's what a mining op security force is all about. Do you think a pirate in a tricked-out combat ship is going to suicide it against a security force for a mining barge kill? Not likely.
If you can't muster the forces to defend your operations, then you're mining in the wrong place.
Originally by: Vasiliyan
As a result, we get non-fights: people watch local and warp out / log off at the slightest sign of any possible danger. This isn't fun.
No, it is not fun. But the situation is that miners want the good ore without risk, and are too lazy, or don't have the resources, to bring a proper security force with them. The game is about co-operation. Involve security forces and it would be a whole lot more fun for everyone.
Oh yes, and nerf local. :)
The problem in securing a mining op is that most combat people are not willing to sit in the belts for even just two to three hours. Its just not that good entertainment for them.
I do find it somewhat hilarious that the mining barges are so fragile. Considering any lack of combat modules other than an occasional mid slot devoted to a web or warp scram they really need more hp.
There is no way to stop a determined attack on mining barges. They have such few hit points that if pirates show up or opposing forces they can ignore the security present to the point they can insta pop the barges. That's why barges and haulers in general dock at the sign of known trouble.
Barges need a hit point boost.
The OP idea is so so. A siege mode sounds so so in that really speaking you have to move around to make maximum use of mining barges and exhumers. You can easily deplete the supply of ore in range in just 2 hours or less in many locations.
A shield ship or mobile shield generator though would help I think. It would give some security to the mining force. You could use them similar to mobile warp disruptor bubbles. You'd anchor them and then they'd generate the shield. Give them similar shield size to what you see in mobile warp generators. Hostile have to take the shield down first before attacking anything within it.
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Thoughts expressed are mine and |
Gemberkoekje
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Posted - 2007.05.04 11:34:00 -
[9]
I like and hate the idea of nerfing local at the same time.
I am a miner, and i use local to stay safe. Problem is that most PvP players don't even bother 'carebearing' miners, cause it's boring and there's no sure thing that pirates show up. Also, as stated earlier, a pirate can pop a barge b4 the PvPers could even react.
Since CCP is thinking about improving exploring, i think adding pirates (and the mining barges, too!) to that list would only be more exciting. Cause you don't know what's in the system, you need to keep an eye on your scanners, or take a scout with you (looking at the gate(s)) - What also would make it harder is that then the 'roid belts won't just show up at the overview, so pirates would also have a hard time finding miners....
I'm seeing oppertunities here for a very exciting cat and mouse game...
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Angelus Xenotov
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Posted - 2007.05.04 15:19:00 -
[10]
I do like the idea of a 'Mobile Deployable Shield Generator' as a defense, make it so you can't shoot out of it, make its health decent and its a pretty good idea.
Perhaps an Industrial could mount it as a highslot and become immobile, but generate a X km shield.
Just a thought.
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Lan'Fear
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.05.04 16:28:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Lan''Fear on 04/05/2007 16:26:37
deleted...
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Faith Rose
Amarr
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.04 16:31:00 -
[12]
"Mobile Deployable Shield Generator"
I most say this mod will be one hell of a nasty weapon in the right hands.
"How do you kill... that which has no life?"
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Angelus Xenotov
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Posted - 2007.05.04 17:09:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Faith Rose
"Mobile Deployable Shield Generator"
I most say this mod will be one hell of a nasty weapon in the right hands.
Only if you're a porc'er, its ideal would be just a minute or two buffer so your defenders have chance to kill whomever is attacking, not a fullblown POS shield to hide in at a belt.
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Signaldog
Gallente
Venom.
THE V I G I L
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Posted - 2007.05.05 12:19:00 -
[14]
why not just make it a mid lvl mod that halves all damages, can only be fitted to barges...this gives miners a chance to warp out AFTER being attacked by a single ship or maybe two without making it an exploit. Won't protect against a pirate fleet, but if you are mining somewhere that a pirate fleet is operating, you should have security and be at your pc, not off watching tv. :D
READ MY SALVAGER THREAD HERE!!!!
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Faith Rose
Amarr
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.05 14:13:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Angelus Xenotov
Only if you're a porc'er, its ideal would be just a minute or two buffer so your defenders have chance to kill whomever is attacking, not a fullblown POS shield to hide in at a belt.
pos shield is not what i was geting at, it would help a fleet say surviving a dd.
 As for the weapon part i'll leave it to your imagination for now.
"How do you kill... that which has no life?"
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